Lessons in masculinity: Jordan Peterson vs. Tim Walz

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thinking of this as TikTok has blown up over the last few days about “America’s Dad” as the new VP contender. Though it’s hard not to get tangled up in the obvious politics of it all, I really do see Tim Walz as the positive counter-example to the “masculinity crisis” and the problem with young men needing better role models.

For the last decade, a lot of lonely young men have turned to pseudo-intellectuals and influencers like Jordan Peterson (or worse, Andrew Tate) for guidance on how to be a man. What started with a benign but not exactly groundbreaking advice to “clean your room,” Jordan Peterson has ultimately steered young men towards online incel-dom, offering a veneer of bootstrap-style self-betterment advice but actually blaming everyone else (namely, women, non-traditional lifestyles, atheists, liberals, LGBTQ people, or whatever the hell cultural Marxism is) for his own insecurities. He gets really emotional over weird things yet claims to be this father figure to help young men set themselves right, when he is clearly… not alright.

VP contender Tim Walz is exactly the opposite. Of course I don’t personally know the guy or his non-public family situation, I’m going on public persona and vibes here: this is how you be a secure, masculine man. Be capable of all the traditionally manly stuff (hunting, fixing cars, serving in the military, football, what have you) while not being all hung up about women’s menstrual products and supporting women’s aspirations. Serving your community and being a good Dad. Being positive, funny, and laughing at yourself. You don’t even have to like his politics, but his version of masculinity is what most women want.

Too many young men think that they have to choose between Andrew Tate and Soy Boy, or that allowing others to live their lives the way they choose to somehow threatens their own masculinity.

Anyways, since politics is too polarizing, there needs to be more examples of all-American, positive masculine role models for young men, to want to be capable grown men who serve their country and want to be good Dads.

I've worked for social media agencies that handled content + strategy for both these guys (among MANY other alpha male influencers). I also dated a guy 15 years ago who is now an alpha male influencer.

They all have pretty much the same path. They start by posting the benign, "clean your room"-style advice (maybe fitness, business, etc) but start to figure out that by saying controversial, polarizing things, they get more attention which leads to more money. Over time they start saying and believing crazier and crazier things. They also start to develop massive amounts of anxiety and mental illness, because their entire business structure is based on getting attention on social media, and when that attention wanes, they freak out and become even MORE extreme.

It's sad to see, because a lot start off genuinely wanting to help people, and there's a sort of downward spiral. Even sadder are the millions of boys and men who end up caught up in this and adopt those beliefs as their own - which becomes its own vicious cycle, because as they become more extreme, they become more isolated from friends and family, so they go even deeper into the online world.

If those men & boys saw what I saw, they'd snap out of it in a heartbeat. It's all fake. When guys are surrounded by gorgeous women - those women are all hired. Many don't make nearly as much money as they claim to, or they got their money from daddy. They all struggle with depression and anxiety. I had one cry to me because he knows that nobody in his life - not women, not friends - actually care about HIM.

Being a character on social media really messes with your brain. BAD.

PP Have you thought about writing about this and including specific examples? I bet it would be interesting to the population at large. I would read a four page article on this in any weekly magazine - Time, Economist, NYT Mag, you could adapt the content to any of the above and more. It’s completely fascinating and damaging to society and the economy.

I have. Actually thought about doing a documentary on it but 1. I don’t want to get sued and 2. The reality is that some guy would get upset and come after me and my family with a gun. Trump’s a great example on how these people can control their following and make them get violent - zero doubt that would happen to me. Cults are very scary, dangerous things to mess with.

[Anonymous]

I think some of you are just parroting main stream media talking points about Peterson.

I find him annoying in many ways but he does not fit an Incel. I have heard him repeatedly tell men that they need to take responsability. I think that is a good thing.

Also, I have never heard him say women should be less empowered. He has made statements about facts of modern life regarding women. Some of you might not like what he says. But I think k he is spot on.

Again, I am no fan of his. However, I am tired of people just following the views the media puts out about people.resear h for your self.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think some of you are just parroting main stream media talking points about Peterson.

I find him annoying in many ways but he does not fit an Incel. I have heard him repeatedly tell men that they need to take responsability. I think that is a good thing.

Also, I have never heard him say women should be less empowered. He has made statements about facts of modern life regarding women. Some of you might not like what he says. But I think k he is spot on.

Again, I am no fan of his. However, I am tired of people just following the views the media puts out about people.resear h for your self.

+100. People talk about Peterson and Joe Rogan like they are far-right militia incels because they have a few conservative opinions. I don’t agree with everything they say but many of their opinions ideas are totally fine even it’s not your own personal viewpoint.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think some of you are just parroting main stream media talking points about Peterson.

I find him annoying in many ways but he does not fit an Incel. I have heard him repeatedly tell men that they need to take responsability. I think that is a good thing.

Also, I have never heard him say women should be less empowered. He has made statements about facts of modern life regarding women. Some of you might not like what he says. But I think k he is spot on.

Again, I am no fan of his. However, I am tired of people just following the views the media puts out about people.resear h for your self.

No, actually, I've given Peterson a chance. I listened to a few of his lectures before and I have read 12 Rules. The Jungian psychology is nothing malicious but nothing new. Personal responsibility lessons are all well and good - and I, as someone coming from the left, would like to see a bit more of this on my side and I do agree to a certain extent there is a problem with learned helplessness and victimhood. But the deal with Peterson especially over the last few years is that he is doing the very thing he tries to preach not to do, which is blame others. He blames wokeness, he blames "postmodernism," he blames people minding their own business in society but living in ways he doesn't approve of. And he gratuitously insults random people (like that time with the plus-sized model, who TF cares if you don't find her attractive? What was the point?) So in talking out of both sides of his mouth he tells young men to get their lives in shape, while also saying that men don't have their lives in order because of feminism and wokeness and gender pronouns.

Back to the masculinity thing, if seeing women take on more powerful and influential roles in society, why would a masculine man feel inadequate? What the manosphere right fails to do is make the connection between elevated, professional women and emasculated, weak men. Why is it a zero-sum game? You want to talk about lower testosterone levels that could be connected to PFAS chemicals or something, please let's do, but I guarantee that flaccid, weak men are not the result of Kamala Harris, or Nancy Pelosi, or Taylor Swift, or Beyonce, or Oprah. Which is why Tim Walz is such a great example - and there are plenty of other examples amongst conservatives I'm sure, and outside of politics - is that he maintains typically masculine capabilities while also taking the role of second position to the potential first woman president. Being second in line to a woman doesn't threaten his masculinity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think some of you are just parroting main stream media talking points about Peterson.

I find him annoying in many ways but he does not fit an Incel. I have heard him repeatedly tell men that they need to take responsability. I think that is a good thing.

Also, I have never heard him say women should be less empowered. He has made statements about facts of modern life regarding women. Some of you might not like what he says. But I think k he is spot on.

Again, I am no fan of his. However, I am tired of people just following the views the media puts out about people.resear h for your self.

What are you smoking you need your ears checked .

There is no reality what you wrote is true
Peterson is an Andrew Tate
As a matter of fact so is jD Vance and over 90 percent of the Republican Party

I’m sick of this garbage

Waltz is a white Christian male with good values zero comparison to any Republican MAGA wants white Christian males in charge he’s even a gun owner for gods sake . But because he is also a good human Republicans lie and spew. Hypocrisy at its best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thinking of this as TikTok has blown up over the last few days about “America’s Dad” as the new VP contender. Though it’s hard not to get tangled up in the obvious politics of it all, I really do see Tim Walz as the positive counter-example to the “masculinity crisis” and the problem with young men needing better role models.

For the last decade, a lot of lonely young men have turned to pseudo-intellectuals and influencers like Jordan Peterson (or worse, Andrew Tate) for guidance on how to be a man. What started with a benign but not exactly groundbreaking advice to “clean your room,” Jordan Peterson has ultimately steered young men towards online incel-dom, offering a veneer of bootstrap-style self-betterment advice but actually blaming everyone else (namely, women, non-traditional lifestyles, atheists, liberals, LGBTQ people, or whatever the hell cultural Marxism is) for his own insecurities. He gets really emotional over weird things yet claims to be this father figure to help young men set themselves right, when he is clearly… not alright.

VP contender Tim Walz is exactly the opposite. Of course I don’t personally know the guy or his non-public family situation, I’m going on public persona and vibes here: this is how you be a secure, masculine man. Be capable of all the traditionally manly stuff (hunting, fixing cars, serving in the military, football, what have you) while not being all hung up about women’s menstrual products and supporting women’s aspirations. Serving your community and being a good Dad. Being positive, funny, and laughing at yourself. You don’t even have to like his politics, but his version of masculinity is what most women want.

Too many young men think that they have to choose between Andrew Tate and Soy Boy, or that allowing others to live their lives the way they choose to somehow threatens their own masculinity.

Anyways, since politics is too polarizing, there needs to be more examples of all-American, positive masculine role models for young men, to want to be capable grown men who serve their country and want to be good Dads.

The bolded is the key, and I simply think you’re wrong. Most women are not looking for the enlisted/NCO/public school teacher/football coach. Those men will overwhelmingly trend right and being married to three of those categories is objectively hard and the fourth one (teacher) presents financial challenges (although it isn’t as demanding on the family).

The reason why young men follow Tate, Peterson and the others is because those influencers offer young men paradigms that fit the lived experience of those men (whether you agree with them or not is irrelevant). TW won’t speak to those men.

And not for nothing, Mitt Romney met a lot of your criteria and he was labeled a racist. People remember that.

I think the point is not the specifics of what Walz does/did for a living. It is that he did things we tend to think of as stereotypically male but he seems to still have empathy and kindness and not take himself too seriously.

FWIW, I am a Dem, but I liked Mitt Romney as a person. He seemed like a decent guy. I don't recall people I know calling him racist.

You’re fighting q caricature? A lot of the men you disagree with politically do have empathy, kindness and don’t take themselves too seriously, but it manifests in ways you don’t agree with.

I mean, precisely which of Jordan Peterson’s 12 Rules for Life do you find offensive?

lol are we really going to do this? I can agree that being a decent man is generally unrelated to how you vote. But Jordan Peterson is an off-putting weirdo who appears obsessed with what other people do and say. He is NOT a decent, dad-like, salt-of-the-earth guy’s guy, and that is self-evident to all! that doesn’t mean he doesn’t sometimes say or write worthwhile things but overall … he’s extremely offputting and that is why women do not like him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thinking of this as TikTok has blown up over the last few days about “America’s Dad” as the new VP contender. Though it’s hard not to get tangled up in the obvious politics of it all, I really do see Tim Walz as the positive counter-example to the “masculinity crisis” and the problem with young men needing better role models.

For the last decade, a lot of lonely young men have turned to pseudo-intellectuals and influencers like Jordan Peterson (or worse, Andrew Tate) for guidance on how to be a man. What started with a benign but not exactly groundbreaking advice to “clean your room,” Jordan Peterson has ultimately steered young men towards online incel-dom, offering a veneer of bootstrap-style self-betterment advice but actually blaming everyone else (namely, women, non-traditional lifestyles, atheists, liberals, LGBTQ people, or whatever the hell cultural Marxism is) for his own insecurities. He gets really emotional over weird things yet claims to be this father figure to help young men set themselves right, when he is clearly… not alright.

VP contender Tim Walz is exactly the opposite. Of course I don’t personally know the guy or his non-public family situation, I’m going on public persona and vibes here: this is how you be a secure, masculine man. Be capable of all the traditionally manly stuff (hunting, fixing cars, serving in the military, football, what have you) while not being all hung up about women’s menstrual products and supporting women’s aspirations. Serving your community and being a good Dad. Being positive, funny, and laughing at yourself. You don’t even have to like his politics, but his version of masculinity is what most women want.

Too many young men think that they have to choose between Andrew Tate and Soy Boy, or that allowing others to live their lives the way they choose to somehow threatens their own masculinity.

Anyways, since politics is too polarizing, there needs to be more examples of all-American, positive masculine role models for young men, to want to be capable grown men who serve their country and want to be good Dads.

The bolded is the key, and I simply think you’re wrong. Most women are not looking for the enlisted/NCO/public school teacher/football coach. Those men will overwhelmingly trend right and being married to three of those categories is objectively hard and the fourth one (teacher) presents financial challenges (although it isn’t as demanding on the family).

The reason why young men follow Tate, Peterson and the others is because those influencers offer young men paradigms that fit the lived experience of those men (whether you agree with them or not is irrelevant). TW won’t speak to those men.

And not for nothing, Mitt Romney met a lot of your criteria and he was labeled a racist. People remember that.

I think the point is not the specifics of what Walz does/did for a living. It is that he did things we tend to think of as stereotypically male but he seems to still have empathy and kindness and not take himself too seriously.

FWIW, I am a Dem, but I liked Mitt Romney as a person. He seemed like a decent guy. I don't recall people I know calling him racist.

You’re fighting q caricature? A lot of the men you disagree with politically do have empathy, kindness and don’t take themselves too seriously, but it manifests in ways you don’t agree with.

I mean, precisely which of Jordan Peterson’s 12 Rules for Life do you find offensive?

Np here- people don't quibble with those notions, but rather his overall message outside of those 'rules' that is not inclusive or empathetic. And I would certainly not characterize him as kind or not taking himself seriously. He also has the vague aura of a narcissist. I think Romney believes in service as does Walz, who has lived that out his whole live. It is a refreshing change.

But nobody’s message is inclusive and empathetic to EVERYONE. Everybody has to define an outgroup or there is no point to any group.

By definition, virtually every single politician on the planet is a narcissist. I mean, to enter politics, you literally have to look in the mirror and say to yourself “you know, things would be better if I was in charge.” And then you’re going to put your family through the misery of political service. TW, Harris, Biden, Trump, Vance, Obama, Bush (both), Gore … all of them are narcissists. So what’s the difference between them and Peterson?

This is a case of the tail wagging the dog. If you like TW’s politics (and there is much to appreciate) then you’ll rationalize that he is a virtuous. If you like Vance’s, you’ll conclude he is the kind and empathetic one.

Um no - not everyone has to “define and outgroup” and make that the centerpiece of their politics. I’ll grant you that all (male) politicians probably score high on narcissistic traits but that’s not the whole story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think some of you are just parroting main stream media talking points about Peterson.

I find him annoying in many ways but he does not fit an Incel. I have heard him repeatedly tell men that they need to take responsability. I think that is a good thing.

Also, I have never heard him say women should be less empowered. He has made statements about facts of modern life regarding women. Some of you might not like what he says. But I think k he is spot on.

Again, I am no fan of his. However, I am tired of people just following the views the media puts out about people.resear h for your self.

lol please, tell me more about Jordan Peterson’s “facts of modern life regarding women.” I’m sure they will resonate!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think some of you are just parroting main stream media talking points about Peterson.

I find him annoying in many ways but he does not fit an Incel. I have heard him repeatedly tell men that they need to take responsability. I think that is a good thing.

Also, I have never heard him say women should be less empowered. He has made statements about facts of modern life regarding women. Some of you might not like what he says. But I think k he is spot on.

Again, I am no fan of his. However, I am tired of people just following the views the media puts out about people.resear h for your self.

Andrew Tate tells guys they need to take responsibility too. So what? The way they draw people/men in is with self-help language like this but then they take it farther with judgment/dismissiveness/misogyny towards women and others not like them. There is an overall message of male superiority.

Neither of these guys are incels. JD is more incel-ish.

[Anonymous]

Sean Strickland is the man!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think some of you are just parroting main stream media talking points about Peterson.

I find him annoying in many ways but he does not fit an Incel. I have heard him repeatedly tell men that they need to take responsability. I think that is a good thing.

Also, I have never heard him say women should be less empowered. He has made statements about facts of modern life regarding women. Some of you might not like what he says. But I think k he is spot on.

Again, I am no fan of his. However, I am tired of people just following the views the media puts out about people.resear h for your self.

Andrew Tate tells guys they need to take responsibility too. So what? The way they draw people/men in is with self-help language like this but then they take it farther with judgment/dismissiveness/misogyny towards women and others not like them. There is an overall message of male superiority.

Neither of these guys are incels. JD is more incel-ish.

I hear Usha tells him to sleep on the couch. To which he happily obliges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thinking of this as TikTok has blown up over the last few days about “America’s Dad” as the new VP contender. Though it’s hard not to get tangled up in the obvious politics of it all, I really do see Tim Walz as the positive counter-example to the “masculinity crisis” and the problem with young men needing better role models.

For the last decade, a lot of lonely young men have turned to pseudo-intellectuals and influencers like Jordan Peterson (or worse, Andrew Tate) for guidance on how to be a man. What started with a benign but not exactly groundbreaking advice to “clean your room,” Jordan Peterson has ultimately steered young men towards online incel-dom, offering a veneer of bootstrap-style self-betterment advice but actually blaming everyone else (namely, women, non-traditional lifestyles, atheists, liberals, LGBTQ people, or whatever the hell cultural Marxism is) for his own insecurities. He gets really emotional over weird things yet claims to be this father figure to help young men set themselves right, when he is clearly… not alright.

VP contender Tim Walz is exactly the opposite. Of course I don’t personally know the guy or his non-public family situation, I’m going on public persona and vibes here: this is how you be a secure, masculine man. Be capable of all the traditionally manly stuff (hunting, fixing cars, serving in the military, football, what have you) while not being all hung up about women’s menstrual products and supporting women’s aspirations. Serving your community and being a good Dad. Being positive, funny, and laughing at yourself. You don’t even have to like his politics, but his version of masculinity is what most women want.

Too many young men think that they have to choose between Andrew Tate and Soy Boy, or that allowing others to live their lives the way they choose to somehow threatens their own masculinity.

Anyways, since politics is too polarizing, there needs to be more examples of all-American, positive masculine role models for young men, to want to be capable grown men who serve their country and want to be good Dads.

The bolded is the key, and I simply think you’re wrong. Most women are not looking for the enlisted/NCO/public school teacher/football coach. Those men will overwhelmingly trend right and being married to three of those categories is objectively hard and the fourth one (teacher) presents financial challenges (although it isn’t as demanding on the family).

The reason why young men follow Tate, Peterson and the others is because those influencers offer young men paradigms that fit the lived experience of those men (whether you agree with them or not is irrelevant). TW won’t speak to those men.

And not for nothing, Mitt Romney met a lot of your criteria and he was labeled a racist. People remember that.

I think the point is not the specifics of what Walz does/did for a living. It is that he did things we tend to think of as stereotypically male but he seems to still have empathy and kindness and not take himself too seriously.

FWIW, I am a Dem, but I liked Mitt Romney as a person. He seemed like a decent guy. I don't recall people I know calling him racist.

You’re fighting q caricature? A lot of the men you disagree with politically do have empathy, kindness and don’t take themselves too seriously, but it manifests in ways you don’t agree with.

I mean, precisely which of Jordan Peterson’s 12 Rules for Life do you find offensive?

lol are we really going to do this? I can agree that being a decent man is generally unrelated to how you vote. But Jordan Peterson is an off-putting weirdo who appears obsessed with what other people do and say. He is NOT a decent, dad-like, salt-of-the-earth guy’s guy, and that is self-evident to all! that doesn’t mean he doesn’t sometimes say or write worthwhile things but overall … he’s extremely offputting and that is why women do not like him.

I saw Jordan Peterson on Bill Maher mansplain to a Black woman panelist (I forget who) about how she should raise her children. He not so subtly put her down and offered advice she did ask for. His comments struck me as very sexist. He is a philosophy professor who got some traction and now thinks he should pontificate about life. Enough. He's not unique in this way. It happens to many people who get successful. Also, I'm sick of hearing about how bad things are for men and giving these fringe influencers so much attention. Most men are doing okay as are most women. There is too much emphasis on gender differences and the use of ideas like how paleo people lived ( I mean, who the heck really knows and why is it at all relevant in 2024?) or biological arguments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thinking of this as TikTok has blown up over the last few days about “America’s Dad” as the new VP contender. Though it’s hard not to get tangled up in the obvious politics of it all, I really do see Tim Walz as the positive counter-example to the “masculinity crisis” and the problem with young men needing better role models.

For the last decade, a lot of lonely young men have turned to pseudo-intellectuals and influencers like Jordan Peterson (or worse, Andrew Tate) for guidance on how to be a man. What started with a benign but not exactly groundbreaking advice to “clean your room,” Jordan Peterson has ultimately steered young men towards online incel-dom, offering a veneer of bootstrap-style self-betterment advice but actually blaming everyone else (namely, women, non-traditional lifestyles, atheists, liberals, LGBTQ people, or whatever the hell cultural Marxism is) for his own insecurities. He gets really emotional over weird things yet claims to be this father figure to help young men set themselves right, when he is clearly… not alright.

VP contender Tim Walz is exactly the opposite. Of course I don’t personally know the guy or his non-public family situation, I’m going on public persona and vibes here: this is how you be a secure, masculine man. Be capable of all the traditionally manly stuff (hunting, fixing cars, serving in the military, football, what have you) while not being all hung up about women’s menstrual products and supporting women’s aspirations. Serving your community and being a good Dad. Being positive, funny, and laughing at yourself. You don’t even have to like his politics, but his version of masculinity is what most women want.

Too many young men think that they have to choose between Andrew Tate and Soy Boy, or that allowing others to live their lives the way they choose to somehow threatens their own masculinity.

Anyways, since politics is too polarizing, there needs to be more examples of all-American, positive masculine role models for young men, to want to be capable grown men who serve their country and want to be good Dads.

I've worked for social media agencies that handled content + strategy for both these guys (among MANY other alpha male influencers). I also dated a guy 15 years ago who is now an alpha male influencer.

They all have pretty much the same path. They start by posting the benign, "clean your room"-style advice (maybe fitness, business, etc) but start to figure out that by saying controversial, polarizing things, they get more attention which leads to more money. Over time they start saying and believing crazier and crazier things. They also start to develop massive amounts of anxiety and mental illness, because their entire business structure is based on getting attention on social media, and when that attention wanes, they freak out and become even MORE extreme.

It's sad to see, because a lot start off genuinely wanting to help people, and there's a sort of downward spiral. Even sadder are the millions of boys and men who end up caught up in this and adopt those beliefs as their own - which becomes its own vicious cycle, because as they become more extreme, they become more isolated from friends and family, so they go even deeper into the online world.

If those men & boys saw what I saw, they'd snap out of it in a heartbeat. It's all fake. When guys are surrounded by gorgeous women - those women are all hired. Many don't make nearly as much money as they claim to, or they got their money from daddy. They all struggle with depression and anxiety. I had one cry to me because he knows that nobody in his life - not women, not friends - actually care about HIM.

Being a character on social media really messes with your brain. BAD.

PP Have you thought about writing about this and including specific examples? I bet it would be interesting to the population at large. I would read a four page article on this in any weekly magazine - Time, Economist, NYT Mag, you could adapt the content to any of the above and more. It’s completely fascinating and damaging to society and the economy.

I have. Actually thought about doing a documentary on it but 1. I don’t want to get sued and 2. The reality is that some guy would get upset and come after me and my family with a gun. Trump’s a great example on how these people can control their following and make them get violent - zero doubt that would happen to me. Cults are very scary, dangerous things to mess with.

I wish you could. This is very valuable information.

[Anonymous]

Also, most of this recent discussion has very little to do with the type of masculinity being modeled or its relationship appeal.

The better qualities of a Midwestern Dad are excellent for maintenance of a long term relationship even if they don’t necessarily make women swoon in the short term.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think some of you are just parroting main stream media talking points about Peterson.

I find him annoying in many ways but he does not fit an Incel. I have heard him repeatedly tell men that they need to take responsability. I think that is a good thing.

Also, I have never heard him say women should be less empowered. He has made statements about facts of modern life regarding women. Some of you might not like what he says. But I think k he is spot on.

Again, I am no fan of his. However, I am tired of people just following the views the media puts out about people.resear h for your self.

No, actually, I've given Peterson a chance. I listened to a few of his lectures before and I have read 12 Rules. The Jungian psychology is nothing malicious but nothing new. Personal responsibility lessons are all well and good - and I, as someone coming from the left, would like to see a bit more of this on my side and I do agree to a certain extent there is a problem with learned helplessness and victimhood. But the deal with Peterson especially over the last few years is that he is doing the very thing he tries to preach not to do, which is blame others. He blames wokeness, he blames "postmodernism," he blames people minding their own business in society but living in ways he doesn't approve of. And he gratuitously insults random people (like that time with the plus-sized model, who TF cares if you don't find her attractive? What was the point?) So in talking out of both sides of his mouth he tells young men to get their lives in shape, while also saying that men don't have their lives in order because of feminism and wokeness and gender pronouns.

Back to the masculinity thing, if seeing women take on more powerful and influential roles in society, why would a masculine man feel inadequate? What the manosphere right fails to do is make the connection between elevated, professional women and emasculated, weak men. Why is it a zero-sum game? You want to talk about lower testosterone levels that could be connected to PFAS chemicals or something, please let's do, but I guarantee that flaccid, weak men are not the result of Kamala Harris, or Nancy Pelosi, or Taylor Swift, or Beyonce, or Oprah. Which is why Tim Walz is such a great example - and there are plenty of other examples amongst conservatives I'm sure, and outside of politics - is that he maintains typically masculine capabilities while also taking the role of second position to the potential first woman president. Being second in line to a woman doesn't threaten his masculinity.

Can you tell me more about the Jungian stuff? My 21--year-old was reading Jung and I was wondering what that was about. He is a philosophy major, but this was in his off-time. Now he's reading Descartes. And yes, I asked and we talked about it a bit, but he wasn't open and I don't want to shut him down. Meanwhile, I know him well enough to know that Tim Walz would not be a role model for him. He is just far too progressive to be someone my son is inspired by.