What do you think about Upper Schools telling parents to butt out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s appropriate. 3 kids through high school, one remaining. Outside Parent Teacher conferences, I never communicated with any teacher. My kids did not have any accommodations, so could see communication of that was the case.

I’d like some lower school and intermediate /middle school student parent perspectives. They have the same policy there- parents out of the picture.

My kid got dragged into a Restorative Justice session when witnessing bullying. Parents were never told, or at least we weren’t.

A couple months later when my kid was the target of the same bully and not wanting to go to school, she disclosed this mtg that happened a couple months ago.

Apparently she only said some benign thing at the mtg, in front of the bully snd whole group since that’s how the guidance counselor rolls, about how everyone should be nice. And then the retaliation game began.

First I asked teacher wtf was going on. Silence; everyone is nice here. Then we had to go to guidance counselor, got total shock from her. Lastly I ran into some parents who all had issues with the same bully bullying their kid. Took months to figure that out with zero help, only zero communication, from the lower school.

And they had the gall to say, when we requested distance with next years homeroom, you should have told us right away!

Will you keep your child at the school for US?

It’s more age appropriate to cut out the parents in bullying teens than 8 yos?

[Anonymous]

A cautionary tale about what can go wrong when parents are asked to trust a school in the absence of accountability:

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/saint-anns-winston-nguyen-scandal-snapchat.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because we are in the same spot.

I empathize with your situation. What’s still not clear to me is if or how PP’s decision affects what choice you make. If PP left you would too? If PP stayed you would too? If there’s no connection, why does it matter?

DP. Why are you harping on this person? Maybe it’s just human curiosity wanting to know the outcome of the story. Who cares? It was a simple question. The person they asked can share the answer or not.

This is an anonymous message board where the motivation/agenda of someone posting is rarely clear and often disguised. I'm trying to make the discussion more transparent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because we are in the same spot.

I empathize with your situation. What’s still not clear to me is if or how PP’s decision affects what choice you make. If PP left you would too? If PP stayed you would too? If there’s no connection, why does it matter?

DP. Why are you harping on this person? Maybe it’s just human curiosity wanting to know the outcome of the story. Who cares? It was a simple question. The person they asked can share the answer or not.

This is an anonymous message board where the motivation/agenda of someone posting is rarely clear and often disguised. I'm trying to make the discussion more transparent.

You want to figure out if an anonymous person has an agenda for asking another anonymous person about whether or not they are keeping their kid at an unnamed school? You might want to consider taking up a hobby that gets you out of the house more.

[Anonymous]

For those considering a move and hemming and hawing about long term outcomes v. the fact that parent and child are miserable at current school, our experience is that by the time you're at that point, you should have done it already.

It's entirely normal to worry about the disruption, to worry about whether things will be better elsewhere, etc.. We were in that boat and moved our (admittedly middle, not high school) child and it was 100% the right decision. A friend's daughter switched schools between 10th and 11th grades and they are so glad they made the leap.

If you make a move during high school, sure, it's possible you'll need to explain it as part of the college application process. But it's truly not the big deal we often build it up to be in our heads. Keep in mind lots of families move during high school, and those kids obviously go on to great college experiences. You're not as locked in as the school would like you to think.

[Anonymous]

When my daughter had her admissions interview at Sidwell for HS, she asked about the relationship between students and teachers and was told by the interviewer (also a teacher), "teachers are not your friends". Was such a weird response.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When my daughter had her admissions interview at Sidwell for HS, she asked about the relationship between students and teachers and was told by the interviewer (also a teacher), "teachers are not your friends". Was such a weird response.

While true that is a weird response in context.

Teachers can’t be friends with their students in the sense that they clearly have power over them. However, teachers should be mentors, guides, and friendly, approachable people who seek to support their students’ learning and growth as scholars and people. Not all teachers are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a teacher, and I have almost 20 years of experience.

The situation has radically changed over the past several years. While most parents are reasonable and perfectly pleasant, there is a small, crazed minority of parents who have ruined the system for the majority of teachers, students, and parents. These policies are in place because that is the only way to ensure that teachers are not harrassed, slandered, and attacked by a minority of (very, VERY) badly-behaved parents.

I have witnessed a bevy of moms make it their single purpose to humiliate and destroy the careers of colleagues. I have witnessed parents cursing and shouting at colleagues. I have directly experienced parents who send me abusive emails before they have bothered to learn the facts of a situation, and parents who cannot conceal their disgust and scorn for teachers in general, and who believe and act as if every teacher is an enemy and peasant who must be bullied. Again, this is not the majority of parents, but when the minority of badly-behaved parents is allowed to run rampant, it destroys the atmosphere for all teachers at the school, as well as the well-being and possibly the career of the teacher receiving the brunt of the abuse. I do not think any other working professional routinely endures the insults and abuse teachers receive. I really don't.

I agree that constructing a wall between parent and teacher is not the ideal way to support students. But I also don't see any alternative. I don't think it is possible to fully understand just how bad some parents behave toward teachers unless you have witnessed this.

For the record, I have a track record of strong AP scores and great relationships with students and parents. Most of the teachers I have seen abused by parents were perfectly competent as well (not all, but even with weaker teachers, abusing them doesn't improve the situation).

I don't know what the solution is here. But I suggest that rather than blaming the school for these unpleasant policies, you look toward the few badly-behaved parents who have ruined things for us all.

I’m a teacher too. I can handle parents because I’m organized, fair, timely and transparent. It is infuriating to pay $50k a year for teachers who barely do their jobs. And anyone who thinks students should suffer because teachers need to be protected from a handful of mean mommies probably shouldn’t be teaching.

I'm a parent and I agree with you. The role of administration should be to ensure appropriate alignment of teachers, parents, and students for the primary purpose of educating students, especially at the high tuition rates charged. The reports of rampant adult centricity at many local $$$ private schools (especially during and post-pandemic) is truly ridiculous and alarming.

In spite of (because of?) significant growth in administrative bloat (e.g., "Deans" with vague titles and unclear/undifferentiated responsibilities), our school was truly a disaster in inconsistent standards. At the end of our DCs' tenure, student life was driven by political agendas and gross corruption in all facets - in the classroom, in student leadership, in college admissions, and on the sports fields. We experienced a rapidly decaying culture and mismanagement for several years and - THANK GOD - are now out of that terrible school.

Student learning (including supporting and scaffolding student self-advocacy) should be the central objective of educators, not: 1.) focused on the whims of VIP/board members; 2.) preemptively avoiding crazy parent behaviors; 3.) gaslighting community members who offer feedback or concerns. The bottom line is that teachers should be protected by admin from parents who are out of line. Students should know that there are consequences for bad behavior, poor choices, and inadequate preparation and that parents cannot buy their way out of those consequences. Teachers need to be held accountable for inadequate teaching, which includes unresponsiveness to emails/communication attempts, untimely grading and feedback; and inconsistent standards.

These are basic principles but seemingly a lot of area private schools have weak leadership that favors fundraising and optics over actual education quality, and admissions has the luxury of a long line of applicants so no one cares. It's really depressing, but I'm hopeful that more teachers and parents will start to demand a return to these very basic principles. Our kids deserve and need better leadership from the adults in their lives - not checked out/burned out/self-involved parents, administrators, and teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a teacher, and I have almost 20 years of experience.

The situation has radically changed over the past several years. While most parents are reasonable and perfectly pleasant, there is a small, crazed minority of parents who have ruined the system for the majority of teachers, students, and parents. These policies are in place because that is the only way to ensure that teachers are not harrassed, slandered, and attacked by a minority of (very, VERY) badly-behaved parents.

I have witnessed a bevy of moms make it their single purpose to humiliate and destroy the careers of colleagues. I have witnessed parents cursing and shouting at colleagues. I have directly experienced parents who send me abusive emails before they have bothered to learn the facts of a situation, and parents who cannot conceal their disgust and scorn for teachers in general, and who believe and act as if every teacher is an enemy and peasant who must be bullied. Again, this is not the majority of parents, but when the minority of badly-behaved parents is allowed to run rampant, it destroys the atmosphere for all teachers at the school, as well as the well-being and possibly the career of the teacher receiving the brunt of the abuse. I do not think any other working professional routinely endures the insults and abuse teachers receive. I really don't.

I agree that constructing a wall between parent and teacher is not the ideal way to support students. But I also don't see any alternative. I don't think it is possible to fully understand just how bad some parents behave toward teachers unless you have witnessed this.

For the record, I have a track record of strong AP scores and great relationships with students and parents. Most of the teachers I have seen abused by parents were perfectly competent as well (not all, but even with weaker teachers, abusing them doesn't improve the situation).

I don't know what the solution is here. But I suggest that rather than blaming the school for these unpleasant policies, you look toward the few badly-behaved parents who have ruined things for us all.

I’m a teacher too. I can handle parents because I’m organized, fair, timely and transparent. It is infuriating to pay $50k a year for teachers who barely do their jobs. And anyone who thinks students should suffer because teachers need to be protected from a handful of mean mommies probably shouldn’t be teaching.

I'm a parent and I agree with you. The role of administration should be to ensure appropriate alignment of teachers, parents, and students for the primary purpose of educating students, especially at the high tuition rates charged. The reports of rampant adult centricity at many local $$$ private schools (especially during and post-pandemic) is truly ridiculous and alarming.

In spite of (because of?) significant growth in administrative bloat (e.g., "Deans" with vague titles and unclear/undifferentiated responsibilities), our school was truly a disaster in inconsistent standards. At the end of our DCs' tenure, student life was driven by political agendas and gross corruption in all facets - in the classroom, in student leadership, in college admissions, and on the sports fields. We experienced a rapidly decaying culture and mismanagement for several years and - THANK GOD - are now out of that terrible school.

Student learning (including supporting and scaffolding student self-advocacy) should be the central objective of educators, not: 1.) focused on the whims of VIP/board members; 2.) preemptively avoiding crazy parent behaviors; 3.) gaslighting community members who offer feedback or concerns. The bottom line is that teachers should be protected by admin from parents who are out of line. Students should know that there are consequences for bad behavior, poor choices, and inadequate preparation and that parents cannot buy their way out of those consequences. Teachers need to be held accountable for inadequate teaching, which includes unresponsiveness to emails/communication attempts, untimely grading and feedback; and inconsistent standards.

These are basic principles but seemingly a lot of area private schools have weak leadership that favors fundraising and optics over actual education quality, and admissions has the luxury of a long line of applicants so no one cares. It's really depressing, but I'm hopeful that more teachers and parents will start to demand a return to these very basic principles. Our kids deserve and need better leadership from the adults in their lives - not checked out/burned out/self-involved parents, administrators, and teachers.

+10000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One of my DCs is a 26 year old "big 3" graduate - launched, law school grad and about to be engaged. Recently, they were visiting and reflected on how much they appreciated the hands off "self advocacy" approach of their school and hope for the same for their kids. It helped them grow and mature as a person and and they really hope for the same for their kids. All of their friends are very successful as well - sharing this for complaining parents that think they know better.

ew.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a teacher, and I have almost 20 years of experience.

The situation has radically changed over the past several years. While most parents are reasonable and perfectly pleasant, there is a small, crazed minority of parents who have ruined the system for the majority of teachers, students, and parents. These policies are in place because that is the only way to ensure that teachers are not harrassed, slandered, and attacked by a minority of (very, VERY) badly-behaved parents.

I have witnessed a bevy of moms make it their single purpose to humiliate and destroy the careers of colleagues. I have witnessed parents cursing and shouting at colleagues. I have directly experienced parents who send me abusive emails before they have bothered to learn the facts of a situation, and parents who cannot conceal their disgust and scorn for teachers in general, and who believe and act as if every teacher is an enemy and peasant who must be bullied. Again, this is not the majority of parents, but when the minority of badly-behaved parents is allowed to run rampant, it destroys the atmosphere for all teachers at the school, as well as the well-being and possibly the career of the teacher receiving the brunt of the abuse. I do not think any other working professional routinely endures the insults and abuse teachers receive. I really don't.

I agree that constructing a wall between parent and teacher is not the ideal way to support students. But I also don't see any alternative. I don't think it is possible to fully understand just how bad some parents behave toward teachers unless you have witnessed this.

For the record, I have a track record of strong AP scores and great relationships with students and parents. Most of the teachers I have seen abused by parents were perfectly competent as well (not all, but even with weaker teachers, abusing them doesn't improve the situation).

I don't know what the solution is here. But I suggest that rather than blaming the school for these unpleasant policies, you look toward the few badly-behaved parents who have ruined things for us all.

I hear you, but not every situation is the same. There is an imbalance of power that makes resolving a situation tough for a teen.

Our child had an issue with a coach. She was pushed to handle it on her own, but felt like she was being demeaned. We encouraged her to include her advisor in a follow up meeting. Thankfully, she stepped in to moderate a conversation.

Not surprisingly, once a second adult was in the room, the coach was far more civil and our child felt heard.

so parents were not needed here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And the teachers will retaliate. The students know this and the teachers know they know it. The kids keep quiet because they know their grades will suffer and most leave the school vowing never to return except for a handful of students who the administration fawns over.

That sounds like a fun school. Why do so many parents keep making their kids go there?

Because they did not know before enrolling. Once you are there, it is difficult to move to another school, esp in high school.

Because they like the prestige. There. Fixed it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a teacher, and I have almost 20 years of experience.

The situation has radically changed over the past several years. While most parents are reasonable and perfectly pleasant, there is a small, crazed minority of parents who have ruined the system for the majority of teachers, students, and parents. These policies are in place because that is the only way to ensure that teachers are not harrassed, slandered, and attacked by a minority of (very, VERY) badly-behaved parents.

I have witnessed a bevy of moms make it their single purpose to humiliate and destroy the careers of colleagues. I have witnessed parents cursing and shouting at colleagues. I have directly experienced parents who send me abusive emails before they have bothered to learn the facts of a situation, and parents who cannot conceal their disgust and scorn for teachers in general, and who believe and act as if every teacher is an enemy and peasant who must be bullied. Again, this is not the majority of parents, but when the minority of badly-behaved parents is allowed to run rampant, it destroys the atmosphere for all teachers at the school, as well as the well-being and possibly the career of the teacher receiving the brunt of the abuse. I do not think any other working professional routinely endures the insults and abuse teachers receive. I really don't.

I agree that constructing a wall between parent and teacher is not the ideal way to support students. But I also don't see any alternative. I don't think it is possible to fully understand just how bad some parents behave toward teachers unless you have witnessed this.

For the record, I have a track record of strong AP scores and great relationships with students and parents. Most of the teachers I have seen abused by parents were perfectly competent as well (not all, but even with weaker teachers, abusing them doesn't improve the situation).

I don't know what the solution is here. But I suggest that rather than blaming the school for these unpleasant policies, you look toward the few badly-behaved parents who have ruined things for us all.

I hear you, but not every situation is the same. There is an imbalance of power that makes resolving a situation tough for a teen.

Our child had an issue with a coach. She was pushed to handle it on her own, but felt like she was being demeaned. We encouraged her to include her advisor in a follow up meeting. Thankfully, she stepped in to moderate a conversation.

Not surprisingly, once a second adult was in the room, the coach was far more civil and our child felt heard.

so parents were not needed here.

Yes, but another adult was. The girl was lucky she had an advisor who was willing to step in and have a conversation. Many advisors are not willing to put that kind of effort into being an advisor. They are teachers with full course loads who already have many responsibilities they are not paid for. I get where they are coming from but parents stepping in if other adults are not should always be an option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a teacher, and I have almost 20 years of experience.

The situation has radically changed over the past several years. While most parents are reasonable and perfectly pleasant, there is a small, crazed minority of parents who have ruined the system for the majority of teachers, students, and parents. These policies are in place because that is the only way to ensure that teachers are not harrassed, slandered, and attacked by a minority of (very, VERY) badly-behaved parents.

I have witnessed a bevy of moms make it their single purpose to humiliate and destroy the careers of colleagues. I have witnessed parents cursing and shouting at colleagues. I have directly experienced parents who send me abusive emails before they have bothered to learn the facts of a situation, and parents who cannot conceal their disgust and scorn for teachers in general, and who believe and act as if every teacher is an enemy and peasant who must be bullied. Again, this is not the majority of parents, but when the minority of badly-behaved parents is allowed to run rampant, it destroys the atmosphere for all teachers at the school, as well as the well-being and possibly the career of the teacher receiving the brunt of the abuse. I do not think any other working professional routinely endures the insults and abuse teachers receive. I really don't.

I agree that constructing a wall between parent and teacher is not the ideal way to support students. But I also don't see any alternative. I don't think it is possible to fully understand just how bad some parents behave toward teachers unless you have witnessed this.

For the record, I have a track record of strong AP scores and great relationships with students and parents. Most of the teachers I have seen abused by parents were perfectly competent as well (not all, but even with weaker teachers, abusing them doesn't improve the situation).

I don't know what the solution is here. But I suggest that rather than blaming the school for these unpleasant policies, you look toward the few badly-behaved parents who have ruined things for us all.

I hear you my complaints are not teacher based, we never felt the need to contact a teacher - although it's sad there are no teacher conferences.

For us, the bigger issue at our school (we are the "it's not-NCS" family) is the admin having zero reflection on what happens in the school on a variety of issues and how it has a very toxic overall impact on culture. When an admin assumes that no feedback is ever worthy and allows that view to permeates to every aspect of (and adult in) the school, it is a problem. And it has a huge impact. Especially when "no feedback is worth" is hand in hand with "we are rigorous and students need to handle it". There's some key sense of humanity and kindness lacking in that equation as it is currently playing out and it lacks understanding that even high achieving mature HS students are still kids and could use some positive mentoring to go along with the rigor and forays into self-advocation.

I will say that we know of others who did have issues with teachers. The same names came up from different circles over different years...so admin should reflect in those situations too - and not just assume it's a student in over their head (as school would say - from parent pushing student to take too hard of a course) or a parent just pushing for a higher grade. (Again - this was not our situation but even from the outside, it seemed like "there was something there" regarding some teachers.....and that in other cases it was likely the student in over their head)

I will also say there were situations where admin were touting policies towards being out sick (during COVID) that were then flatly NOT being played out by staff. The school found this hard to believe - but I heard so many stories from other parents about students returning from long breaks where the policy was not being put into practice. (some parents didn't know about the policy - just them conveying difficulty of return and me saying "but what about this policy..." ).

What do you mean there are no parent-teacher conferences?

Well...I mean this...

Our school had 1 teacher conference in Fall of 9th grade (with only 3 teachers - which may or not match your choice of preferred 3). Then, never again.

Which school?

Sidwell - don't know if this will change with new HS leadership.

Sidwell does not have parent-teacher conferences in HS? That’s ridiculous. My kids are in elementary school right now so I didn’t realize that HS is this - be independent and sink or swim mentality.

Just Fall of 9th grade, 3 teachers (you can list ranking but you may not get the ones you want). That's it. But new HS head could change it....I hope he changes many things. Tweaking here and there on many fronts could make a big difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For those considering a move and hemming and hawing about long term outcomes v. the fact that parent and child are miserable at current school, our experience is that by the time you're at that point, you should have done it already.

It's entirely normal to worry about the disruption, to worry about whether things will be better elsewhere, etc.. We were in that boat and moved our (admittedly middle, not high school) child and it was 100% the right decision. A friend's daughter switched schools between 10th and 11th grades and they are so glad they made the leap.

If you make a move during high school, sure, it's possible you'll need to explain it as part of the college application process. But it's truly not the big deal we often build it up to be in our heads. Keep in mind lots of families move during high school, and those kids obviously go on to great college experiences. You're not as locked in as the school would like you to think.

I'm guessing your child didn't start at a new private HS for 9th grade.