What do you think about Upper Schools telling parents to butt out?

[Anonymous]

Some parents behave very, very badly but some school employees behave very badly too (teachers and admin).

There are times when parents do need to step in, but I recommend ensuring your child has exhausted all proper channels (speaking to teacher, advisor, department chair in that order) first. At that point, make sure YOU follow proper channels (grade dean, department chair, head of division). Generally I wouldn’t recommend going straight to the HOS. That is how you burn up all of your good will in no time flat.

[Anonymous]

I think it’s appropriate. 3 kids through high school, one remaining. Outside Parent Teacher conferences, I never communicated with any teacher. My kids did not have any accommodations, so could see communication of that was the case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand that some parents are a PITA but our school treats every parent this way and it's nuts. The school takes in zero unsolicited feedback. They generally don't seek it and always brush away anything they don't want to hear. Even for a parent of an independent student who shares nothing and we see no need to engage with teachers...it makes for a crummy culture (for students and families too).

Is this NCS (upper school)?
It's certainly our experience there.
They say"we're partners with you in your child's education" but if you ever need ANYTHING (like a 5 minute conversation (for the first time ever) when your child is struggling and can't seem to advocate for themselves despite trying repeatedly) they act like you're an insane helicopter parent who is trying to limit your child's independence while grossly overstepping your role.

Not NCS....and our school never said once that "we are partners" - they aren't even pretending!

[Anonymous]

Sidwell and ?

[Anonymous]

I'm a teacher, and I have almost 20 years of experience.

The situation has radically changed over the past several years. While most parents are reasonable and perfectly pleasant, there is a small, crazed minority of parents who have ruined the system for the majority of teachers, students, and parents. These policies are in place because that is the only way to ensure that teachers are not harrassed, slandered, and attacked by a minority of (very, VERY) badly-behaved parents.

I have witnessed a bevy of moms make it their single purpose to humiliate and destroy the careers of colleagues. I have witnessed parents cursing and shouting at colleagues. I have directly experienced parents who send me abusive emails before they have bothered to learn the facts of a situation, and parents who cannot conceal their disgust and scorn for teachers in general, and who believe and act as if every teacher is an enemy and peasant who must be bullied. Again, this is not the majority of parents, but when the minority of badly-behaved parents is allowed to run rampant, it destroys the atmosphere for all teachers at the school, as well as the well-being and possibly the career of the teacher receiving the brunt of the abuse. I do not think any other working professional routinely endures the insults and abuse teachers receive. I really don't.

I agree that constructing a wall between parent and teacher is not the ideal way to support students. But I also don't see any alternative. I don't think it is possible to fully understand just how bad some parents behave toward teachers unless you have witnessed this.

For the record, I have a track record of strong AP scores and great relationships with students and parents. Most of the teachers I have seen abused by parents were perfectly competent as well (not all, but even with weaker teachers, abusing them doesn't improve the situation).

I don't know what the solution is here. But I suggest that rather than blaming the school for these unpleasant policies, you look toward the few badly-behaved parents who have ruined things for us all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a teacher, and I have almost 20 years of experience.

The situation has radically changed over the past several years. While most parents are reasonable and perfectly pleasant, there is a small, crazed minority of parents who have ruined the system for the majority of teachers, students, and parents. These policies are in place because that is the only way to ensure that teachers are not harrassed, slandered, and attacked by a minority of (very, VERY) badly-behaved parents.

I have witnessed a bevy of moms make it their single purpose to humiliate and destroy the careers of colleagues. I have witnessed parents cursing and shouting at colleagues. I have directly experienced parents who send me abusive emails before they have bothered to learn the facts of a situation, and parents who cannot conceal their disgust and scorn for teachers in general, and who believe and act as if every teacher is an enemy and peasant who must be bullied. Again, this is not the majority of parents, but when the minority of badly-behaved parents is allowed to run rampant, it destroys the atmosphere for all teachers at the school, as well as the well-being and possibly the career of the teacher receiving the brunt of the abuse. I do not think any other working professional routinely endures the insults and abuse teachers receive. I really don't.

I agree that constructing a wall between parent and teacher is not the ideal way to support students. But I also don't see any alternative. I don't think it is possible to fully understand just how bad some parents behave toward teachers unless you have witnessed this.

For the record, I have a track record of strong AP scores and great relationships with students and parents. Most of the teachers I have seen abused by parents were perfectly competent as well (not all, but even with weaker teachers, abusing them doesn't improve the situation).

I don't know what the solution is here. But I suggest that rather than blaming the school for these unpleasant policies, you look toward the few badly-behaved parents who have ruined things for us all.

I hear you, but not every situation is the same. There is an imbalance of power that makes resolving a situation tough for a teen.

Our child had an issue with a coach. She was pushed to handle it on her own, but felt like she was being demeaned. We encouraged her to include her advisor in a follow up meeting. Thankfully, she stepped in to moderate a conversation.

Not surprisingly, once a second adult was in the room, the coach was far more civil and our child felt heard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a teacher, and I have almost 20 years of experience.

The situation has radically changed over the past several years. While most parents are reasonable and perfectly pleasant, there is a small, crazed minority of parents who have ruined the system for the majority of teachers, students, and parents. These policies are in place because that is the only way to ensure that teachers are not harrassed, slandered, and attacked by a minority of (very, VERY) badly-behaved parents.

I have witnessed a bevy of moms make it their single purpose to humiliate and destroy the careers of colleagues. I have witnessed parents cursing and shouting at colleagues. I have directly experienced parents who send me abusive emails before they have bothered to learn the facts of a situation, and parents who cannot conceal their disgust and scorn for teachers in general, and who believe and act as if every teacher is an enemy and peasant who must be bullied. Again, this is not the majority of parents, but when the minority of badly-behaved parents is allowed to run rampant, it destroys the atmosphere for all teachers at the school, as well as the well-being and possibly the career of the teacher receiving the brunt of the abuse. I do not think any other working professional routinely endures the insults and abuse teachers receive. I really don't.

I agree that constructing a wall between parent and teacher is not the ideal way to support students. But I also don't see any alternative. I don't think it is possible to fully understand just how bad some parents behave toward teachers unless you have witnessed this.

For the record, I have a track record of strong AP scores and great relationships with students and parents. Most of the teachers I have seen abused by parents were perfectly competent as well (not all, but even with weaker teachers, abusing them doesn't improve the situation).

I don't know what the solution is here. But I suggest that rather than blaming the school for these unpleasant policies, you look toward the few badly-behaved parents who have ruined things for us all.

I hear you, but not every situation is the same. There is an imbalance of power that makes resolving a situation tough for a teen.

Our child had an issue with a coach. She was pushed to handle it on her own, but felt like she was being demeaned. We encouraged her to include her advisor in a follow up meeting. Thankfully, she stepped in to moderate a conversation.

Not surprisingly, once a second adult was in the room, the coach was far more civil and our child felt heard.

PP, your example here is exactly what should be happening regardless of school policy. You taught your daughter how to handle the situation, by encouraging her to seek assistance from her advisor, and undoubtedly coaching her on how to approach first the coach and then the advisor when she needed support with the coach. The advisor helped and your daughter learned valuable skills. Had you just swooped in and called the coach, your daughter wouldn't have had the opportunity to gain skills and resiliency that will aid her as she goes to college and enters the work world. I get what you are saying about power imbalance and some teachers/coaches aren't great, but teaching her to seek out an ally and ask for their support is so much better than just fixing it for her yourself at the high school level.

And +1 to the teacher PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Some parents behave very, very badly but some school employees behave very badly too (teachers and admin).

There are times when parents do need to step in, but I recommend ensuring your child has exhausted all proper channels (speaking to teacher, advisor, department chair in that order) first. At that point, make sure YOU follow proper channels (grade dean, department chair, head of division). Generally I wouldn’t recommend going straight to the HOS. That is how you burn up all of your good will in no time flat.

This seems about right.

Helicopter parenting will just create bigger problems for the kids (both now and later in life), but there are rare occasions where parental engagement - quietly - and through whatever the proper channels are - can be essential.

For a *safety* concern, which is fairly narrow and usually is unrelated to academics, I would engage immediately as a parent and make it clear I had a safety concern; I would gently mention the word “liability” in that conversation with the school to make sure they understood. I will not leave my DC in an unsafe situation, no matter what.

My own parents (we lived elsewhere) followed this advice. The only time they intervened, they did so very quietly over the summer, before course schedules were put together, to ensure I was not stuck with a particular English teacher in Form VI. My sibling had previously had that teacher, whose teaching style was not as gentle as USMC Boot Camp; she used to start every year by failing the *entire* class in the 1st grading period “to encourage improvement”. That initial grade was visible to college admissions officers if one were unlucky enough to be in her Form VI English class.

[Anonymous]

I grew up here in an immigrant family. My parents are highly educated and speak English, but I don't remember them helping with homework or dealing with my teachers about any issues. I did have a problem with a teacher in high school and I complained to my school counselor, and the problem was resolved. Never would have occurred to me to involve my parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our kids attend two Big 3s and both have the philosophy that parents should not be involved in any conversations between students and teachers/coaches.

When teachers/coaches are snarky, inappropriate, or even verbally abusive, the students are supposed to handle it themselves. Students are even punished if parents get involved.

Supposedly this is all in the name of student empowerment but say what you will even a 18 yr old is not on the same footing as a teacher or coach. This seems a perfect way for teachers/coaches to avoid accountability.

On the flip side I get that some parents are privileged PITAs and whine over every little thing making teachers’ lives a misery and wasting their time.

How can schools find a better way than telling students and parents in a blanket way that parents should not be involved in conversations with teachers/coaches?

Problem is they do not tell the Board Members to butt out so there is an imbalance. The board members and their very opinionated spouses tend to have a lot of say and input in every single thing at the school (including changing dates of events to suit their schedule) while the regular non vip parents have zero say.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kids attend two Big 3s and both have the philosophy that parents should not be involved in any conversations between students and teachers/coaches.

When teachers/coaches are snarky, inappropriate, or even verbally abusive, the students are supposed to handle it themselves. Students are even punished if parents get involved.

Supposedly this is all in the name of student empowerment but say what you will even a 18 yr old is not on the same footing as a teacher or coach. This seems a perfect way for teachers/coaches to avoid accountability.

On the flip side I get that some parents are privileged PITAs and whine over every little thing making teachers’ lives a misery and wasting their time.

How can schools find a better way than telling students and parents in a blanket way that parents should not be involved in conversations with teachers/coaches?

Problem is they do not tell the Board Members to butt out so there is an imbalance. The board members and their very opinionated spouses tend to have a lot of say and input in every single thing at the school (including changing dates of events to suit their schedule) while the regular non vip parents have zero say.

So funny when parents at these schools complain about the unfairness of it all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kids attend two Big 3s and both have the philosophy that parents should not be involved in any conversations between students and teachers/coaches.

When teachers/coaches are snarky, inappropriate, or even verbally abusive, the students are supposed to handle it themselves. Students are even punished if parents get involved.

Supposedly this is all in the name of student empowerment but say what you will even a 18 yr old is not on the same footing as a teacher or coach. This seems a perfect way for teachers/coaches to avoid accountability.

On the flip side I get that some parents are privileged PITAs and whine over every little thing making teachers’ lives a misery and wasting their time.

How can schools find a better way than telling students and parents in a blanket way that parents should not be involved in conversations with teachers/coaches?

Problem is they do not tell the Board Members to butt out so there is an imbalance. The board members and their very opinionated spouses tend to have a lot of say and input in every single thing at the school (including changing dates of events to suit their schedule) while the regular non vip parents have zero say.

HOS should not have their main role be fundraising. What happens is they end up spending all of their time with the board members and those vips donating large sums instead of getting to know all of the students. So embarrassing after a game last year and the HOS was sucking up to the large donors and vips kids at the game and barely spoke to the rest of the students on the team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a teacher, and I have almost 20 years of experience.

The situation has radically changed over the past several years. While most parents are reasonable and perfectly pleasant, there is a small, crazed minority of parents who have ruined the system for the majority of teachers, students, and parents. These policies are in place because that is the only way to ensure that teachers are not harrassed, slandered, and attacked by a minority of (very, VERY) badly-behaved parents.

I have witnessed a bevy of moms make it their single purpose to humiliate and destroy the careers of colleagues. I have witnessed parents cursing and shouting at colleagues. I have directly experienced parents who send me abusive emails before they have bothered to learn the facts of a situation, and parents who cannot conceal their disgust and scorn for teachers in general, and who believe and act as if every teacher is an enemy and peasant who must be bullied. Again, this is not the majority of parents, but when the minority of badly-behaved parents is allowed to run rampant, it destroys the atmosphere for all teachers at the school, as well as the well-being and possibly the career of the teacher receiving the brunt of the abuse. I do not think any other working professional routinely endures the insults and abuse teachers receive. I really don't.

I agree that constructing a wall between parent and teacher is not the ideal way to support students. But I also don't see any alternative. I don't think it is possible to fully understand just how bad some parents behave toward teachers unless you have witnessed this.

For the record, I have a track record of strong AP scores and great relationships with students and parents. Most of the teachers I have seen abused by parents were perfectly competent as well (not all, but even with weaker teachers, abusing them doesn't improve the situation).

I don't know what the solution is here. But I suggest that rather than blaming the school for these unpleasant policies, you look toward the few badly-behaved parents who have ruined things for us all.

I hear you, but not every situation is the same. There is an imbalance of power that makes resolving a situation tough for a teen.

Our child had an issue with a coach. She was pushed to handle it on her own, but felt like she was being demeaned. We encouraged her to include her advisor in a follow up meeting. Thankfully, she stepped in to moderate a conversation.

Not surprisingly, once a second adult was in the room, the coach was far more civil and our child felt heard.

This is the problem. Exactly.

It’s great that your daughter’s advisor was willing to step in but unfortunately not all advisors are that proactive. Some are completely disengaged or don’t want to risk conflict with a colleague.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kids attend two Big 3s and both have the philosophy that parents should not be involved in any conversations between students and teachers/coaches.

When teachers/coaches are snarky, inappropriate, or even verbally abusive, the students are supposed to handle it themselves. Students are even punished if parents get involved.

Supposedly this is all in the name of student empowerment but say what you will even a 18 yr old is not on the same footing as a teacher or coach. This seems a perfect way for teachers/coaches to avoid accountability.

On the flip side I get that some parents are privileged PITAs and whine over every little thing making teachers’ lives a misery and wasting their time.

How can schools find a better way than telling students and parents in a blanket way that parents should not be involved in conversations with teachers/coaches?

Problem is they do not tell the Board Members to butt out so there is an imbalance. The board members and their very opinionated spouses tend to have a lot of say and input in every single thing at the school (including changing dates of events to suit their schedule) while the regular non vip parents have zero say.

HOS should not have their main role be fundraising. What happens is they end up spending all of their time with the board members and those vips donating large sums instead of getting to know all of the students. So embarrassing after a game last year and the HOS was sucking up to the large donors and vips kids at the game and barely spoke to the rest of the students on the team.

The large donors are the ones who matter. The regular kids are interchangeable with the 10 other kids who could have been accepted in their place. Those schools exist because of fundraising, some HOS's are better at hiding it than others, but someone who regularly large checks is more important than someone who pays tuition and donates a couple of thousand a year

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a teacher, and I have almost 20 years of experience.

The situation has radically changed over the past several years. While most parents are reasonable and perfectly pleasant, there is a small, crazed minority of parents who have ruined the system for the majority of teachers, students, and parents. These policies are in place because that is the only way to ensure that teachers are not harrassed, slandered, and attacked by a minority of (very, VERY) badly-behaved parents.

I have witnessed a bevy of moms make it their single purpose to humiliate and destroy the careers of colleagues. I have witnessed parents cursing and shouting at colleagues. I have directly experienced parents who send me abusive emails before they have bothered to learn the facts of a situation, and parents who cannot conceal their disgust and scorn for teachers in general, and who believe and act as if every teacher is an enemy and peasant who must be bullied. Again, this is not the majority of parents, but when the minority of badly-behaved parents is allowed to run rampant, it destroys the atmosphere for all teachers at the school, as well as the well-being and possibly the career of the teacher receiving the brunt of the abuse. I do not think any other working professional routinely endures the insults and abuse teachers receive. I really don't.

I agree that constructing a wall between parent and teacher is not the ideal way to support students. But I also don't see any alternative. I don't think it is possible to fully understand just how bad some parents behave toward teachers unless you have witnessed this.

For the record, I have a track record of strong AP scores and great relationships with students and parents. Most of the teachers I have seen abused by parents were perfectly competent as well (not all, but even with weaker teachers, abusing them doesn't improve the situation).

I don't know what the solution is here. But I suggest that rather than blaming the school for these unpleasant policies, you look toward the few badly-behaved parents who have ruined things for us all.

I hear you my complaints are not teacher based, we never felt the need to contact a teacher - although it's sad there are no teacher conferences.

For us, the bigger issue at our school (we are the "it's not-NCS" family) is the admin having zero reflection on what happens in the school on a variety of issues and how it has a very toxic overall impact on culture. When an admin assumes that no feedback is ever worthy and allows that view to permeates to every aspect of (and adult in) the school, it is a problem. And it has a huge impact. Especially when "no feedback is worth" is hand in hand with "we are rigorous and students need to handle it". There's some key sense of humanity and kindness lacking in that equation as it is currently playing out and it lacks understanding that even high achieving mature HS students are still kids and could use some positive mentoring to go along with the rigor and forays into self-advocation.

I will say that we know of others who did have issues with teachers. The same names came up from different circles over different years...so admin should reflect in those situations too - and not just assume it's a student in over their head (as school would say - from parent pushing student to take too hard of a course) or a parent just pushing for a higher grade. (Again - this was not our situation but even from the outside, it seemed like "there was something there" regarding some teachers.....and that in other cases it was likely the student in over their head)

I will also say there were situations where admin were touting policies towards being out sick (during COVID) that were then flatly NOT being played out by staff. The school found this hard to believe - but I heard so many stories from other parents about students returning from long breaks where the policy was not being put into practice. (some parents didn't know about the policy - just them conveying difficulty of return and me saying "but what about this policy..." ).