Parents of Bullies

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes. But almost every kid bullies at some point—not all are persistent regular bullies, but every kid in elementary school does something callous and cruel, says something hurtful, or gets caught up in the moment and finds themselves laughing and playing along as someone else gets picked on — it's very normal, and a good kid will realize they did something wrong, and will feel bad and try not to ever do it again. True bullies keep it up.

So much bullying can be so subtle, something that only the victim knows how terribly painful it is...

So I'd say, in a lot of cases, no, the parents don't know... but if it's the kind of thing that keeps up, any decent parent will catch on. Some are oblivious, some don't know what to do, some are fine with it, etc.

This! I hate his idea that there are "bullies" and then there's everyone else. Almost all kids do this to some extent because they are testing things out and figuring out social norms and boundaries. I really do think that some of this is normal and that we're pathologizing every incident in a way that almost undermines the truly egregious and concerning ones.

A kid was being mean to my kid at the start of camp, and my DH was quick to label it bullying and get concerned. It didn't seem that serious to me based on what I heard, and two weeks later, the kids are friends and whatever was going on is long gone.

Kids who are bullying don't typically need a bunch of judgement, and their parents knowing about it is unlikely to stop it. Parents aren't there when it happens, and the kids are not going to listen on this. What the parents need to do is try to be proactive to prevent situations ( ie I was at a party where a kid was clearly mistreating another one, and the parent was right there and didn't step in). I get being exhausted with kids like this, but you have to be vigilant.

+1 there should be some grace for kids, and more the younger they are... they're supposed to be learning what not to do, they don't automatically know. It's when it happens all the time and always has that we can start pathologizing.

Yes, I agree. Our school counselors really try to make the distinction between bullying (repeated and systematic) and people occasionally being unkind or even just disagreeing. A lot of parents jump right to bullying because they either know it gets people to pay attnetion or think their child should never have any sort of discomfort.

PP who has the kid who has both been badly bullied and done some bullying himself—I will say the whole process has left me deeply cynical about the schools' efforts to handle bullying as they literally never did anything for our son. They usually placated our complaints with "This sounds like something we can iron out wiht a little chatting about kindness!" and one time we brought a very specific and upsetting incident to their attention, the teacher, who we had previously always trusted and liked, told us she would handle the matter personally and directly... we hadn't old our son we had said anything to the teacher, but the next day he came home from school in tears and said he was cornered by the bully in the library and the bully said "I'd call you fat boy again but you're such a pussy you'll probably go tell your parents and have them make Mrs. So-and-So call my mom. She doesnt' care fat boy, don't snitch on me again or you'll be sorry!"

So... yeah, I guess to answer the question, some parents dont' care.

Schools are the last place you're likely to find a solution to bullying. I am a former teacher, and I have never seen bullying among adults like I saw among the teachers and administrators in the school I worked in. How can they be expected to effectively address it among the kids when they are living that culture themselves?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not all parents of mean kids are themselves mean. I know of one kid who had a minor brain injury as a toddler that apparently changed his personality. The parents are very nice but they know their kid is filterless and will never get a filter. They have just resigned themselves to being the parents of a mean kid. I feel bad for them.

filterless <> bully

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There seem to be several sources of bullying

1) Kids who come from violent homes.
2) Kids whose parents do something barely legal for a living and communicate the value that following rules is for suckers.
3) Kids who use their social status as weapons. Interestingly, I find that these kids have pretty negative parents; nothing is quite good enough. I don't think they are happy people.

So not true. Bullies tend to be popular and confident. What you wrote is just some debunked pseudo-psychology that people used to believe.

+100
Bullying is a demonstration of power.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think bullying is a very real and terrible thing- but must less prevalent than people often say. There are examples on this thread where a bullying label is applied when it shouldn't be.

Another example. My DD has a friend, Larlo, who this past year was in 6th grade. His parents say he is bullied and they are considering Catholic school next year.

Here are some situations he has been in lately:

1. On the lunch line, a cool kid will go toward the front of the line to talk to someone and Larlo will start yelling (you can imagine his voice as a young 6th grader), "Hey!! You're cutting! You can't do that! He's cutting!" And then the kid will respond "Shut up F-slur!" Is it horrible? Yeah. This is a not a good kid who understands you don't ever say that. But-- no one else on the line felt the need to say anything.

2. Larlo is called gay often and maybe he is but is not able to deal with it yet. Fine. But he'll cry if someone asks him if he likes a boy or if he is gay. OK, it is what it is. And then he'll say "I am going to the dance with John." Pauses. "Just as friends!!!" Then if he person he is speaking to so much as makes a face Larlo doesn't like, Larlo gets really mad and upset.

So these kinds of incidents keep happening and the parents call it bullying. Will Catholic school be better?

That is actually bullying.

Catholic Church is outwardly very homophobic but no one will call him the f word and it is actually a very welcoming shelter for gay people. Sometimes in a good way and sometimes in a horrific way.

PP you quoted. I respect what you are saying but I do not agree. A kid that goes out of his way to interact with known mean kids and call them out for borderline infractions has to take some responsibility. He's also engaging people to consider his sexuality and falling apart when they do.

To call that bullying is an insult to kids that are trying their best not to have issues with anyone and are targeted and harassed.

This is bullying and the person who says it is not is likely a bully themselves

+1 NP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oblivious. In fact, most think their kids are very popular and well-liked.

I think this is true.

+2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid's biggest bully was the most "popular" kid in the class—parents very active in the PTA, wealthy and good grades... but behind the teacher's back he was a nasty piece of work, and his popularity was more a function of fear—kids were desperate to stay on his good side and fawned all over him to keep his approval.

His mother once marveled to me that her little dear was really struggling with the popularity–it can be very overwhelming, she said, when so many other kids expect so much of him. They were very nice people otherwise, but I have a low opinion of their parenting skills, but I could say that about a lot of other people.

Then again, I also don't know what was going on at home—maybe they were trying to correct his behavior, maybe it was a struggle for them? But there certainly was no public acknowledgement of it.

The teachers are well aware of who the bullies are. They aren’t fooled.

I sincerely don’t know if you’re arguing in bad faith or if you’re THAT oblivious.

[Anonymous]

My 5th grade girl was horribly bullied by several girls who had been her friends. Not teasing, but increasingly mean and eventually physical bullying. I mistakenly assumed the parents all knew, especially since the school staff punished the girls. One of the moms texted me over the summer that she had just learned about the way her kid had treated mine, and she was sorry, made no excuses. I wish I had reached out to her when it was going on.

[Anonymous]

I know of a mom who has been told by the school several times over the years what her bullying daughter has done, how she needs to tone it down, etc, and the mom doesn’t know what to do. I’m not sure how far she’s gone in terms of therapy or school counselor or anything, but I can understand the helplessness to an extent. my kid has a good heart and I’ve raised her to have good manners, but I have seen her multiple times when she’s with people she doesn’t find interesting or worthy of her time. Sort of space out and ignores them with a look on her face that seems very uninviting. I do call her on and ask her to engage in a more friendly way, but I can’t be there all the time. I know that’s different from bullying, But I think kids have fears and anxieties and anger like the rest of us and they don’t always know how to express it. I don’t know. I’m not defending this kid. She seems like a jerk and I’m not great friends with her mom. But I also get that parents’ power can be limited.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think bullying is a very real and terrible thing- but must less prevalent than people often say. There are examples on this thread where a bullying label is applied when it shouldn't be.

Another example. My DD has a friend, Larlo, who this past year was in 6th grade. His parents say he is bullied and they are considering Catholic school next year.

Here are some situations he has been in lately:

1. On the lunch line, a cool kid will go toward the front of the line to talk to someone and Larlo will start yelling (you can imagine his voice as a young 6th grader), "Hey!! You're cutting! You can't do that! He's cutting!" And then the kid will respond "Shut up F-slur!" Is it horrible? Yeah. This is a not a good kid who understands you don't ever say that. But-- no one else on the line felt the need to say anything.

2. Larlo is called gay often and maybe he is but is not able to deal with it yet. Fine. But he'll cry if someone asks him if he likes a boy or if he is gay. OK, it is what it is. And then he'll say "I am going to the dance with John." Pauses. "Just as friends!!!" Then if he person he is speaking to so much as makes a face Larlo doesn't like, Larlo gets really mad and upset.

So these kinds of incidents keep happening and the parents call it bullying. Will Catholic school be better?

That is actually bullying.

Catholic Church is outwardly very homophobic but no one will call him the f word and it is actually a very welcoming shelter for gay people. Sometimes in a good way and sometimes in a horrific way.

PP you quoted. I respect what you are saying but I do not agree. A kid that goes out of his way to interact with known mean kids and call them out for borderline infractions has to take some responsibility. He's also engaging people to consider his sexuality and falling apart when they do.

To call that bullying is an insult to kids that are trying their best not to have issues with anyone and are targeted and harassed.

This is bullying and the person who says it is not is likely a bully themselves

No. It's just that there are other kids in that school who I really care about who are actually being bullied and I think that's a really sad and unfortunate thing and has been very difficult for the parents to deal with.

But the parents of Larlo who I mentioned in my first post don't want to empower him to do better socially in any way. He doesn't have to take any responsibility for annoying people who have nothing to do with him, or setting people up to say something he finds offensive. I think it's troubling that some of you seem to see yourself in the situation.

Also Larlo and one of the bullies kids I know are very good friends. Yet, Larlo has so awareness or empathy for what's she's going through. Which is just objectively worse. She is being targeted by a bully. Kids with social issues are not always perfect angels. Sometimes such kids need to take responsibility for their actions, and I don't think that's offensive. And yes I think teachers and administration would then be able to take actual bullying more seriously .

See, I would still probably classify it as bullying, but at the same time I can recognize that it’s brought on in part from Larlo’s lack of social awareness so I do understand the point you’re making.

When it comes to (at least, in my experience) boys dealing with being bullied—it seems like it’s ones that lack social intuition and are a bit awkward and in some cases inadvertently obnoxious.

[Anonymous]

My neighbor has bullied my son and the mom is in denial. The mom is a bully herself to the kid. She gets mad easily about stuff that no sane parents would be mad about. Example: kid isn’t playing soccer well enough. She’s so weird. The kid has also physically hurt my son twice. They are also not for the US and too hands off. Sometimes you need to come out of the house to see what your kid is up to or how they interact with kids at the bus stop. The mom comes across as rude so no surprise her son is similar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think bullying is a very real and terrible thing- but must less prevalent than people often say. There are examples on this thread where a bullying label is applied when it shouldn't be.

Another example. My DD has a friend, Larlo, who this past year was in 6th grade. His parents say he is bullied and they are considering Catholic school next year.

Here are some situations he has been in lately:

1. On the lunch line, a cool kid will go toward the front of the line to talk to someone and Larlo will start yelling (you can imagine his voice as a young 6th grader), "Hey!! You're cutting! You can't do that! He's cutting!" And then the kid will respond "Shut up F-slur!" Is it horrible? Yeah. This is a not a good kid who understands you don't ever say that. But-- no one else on the line felt the need to say anything.

2. Larlo is called gay often and maybe he is but is not able to deal with it yet. Fine. But he'll cry if someone asks him if he likes a boy or if he is gay. OK, it is what it is. And then he'll say "I am going to the dance with John." Pauses. "Just as friends!!!" Then if he person he is speaking to so much as makes a face Larlo doesn't like, Larlo gets really mad and upset.

So these kinds of incidents keep happening and the parents call it bullying. Will Catholic school be better?

That is actually bullying.

Catholic Church is outwardly very homophobic but no one will call him the f word and it is actually a very welcoming shelter for gay people. Sometimes in a good way and sometimes in a horrific way.

PP you quoted. I respect what you are saying but I do not agree. A kid that goes out of his way to interact with known mean kids and call them out for borderline infractions has to take some responsibility. He's also engaging people to consider his sexuality and falling apart when they do.

To call that bullying is an insult to kids that are trying their best not to have issues with anyone and are targeted and harassed.

This is bullying and the person who says it is not is likely a bully themselves

No. It's just that there are other kids in that school who I really care about who are actually being bullied and I think that's a really sad and unfortunate thing and has been very difficult for the parents to deal with.

But the parents of Larlo who I mentioned in my first post don't want to empower him to do better socially in any way. He doesn't have to take any responsibility for annoying people who have nothing to do with him, or setting people up to say something he finds offensive. I think it's troubling that some of you seem to see yourself in the situation.

Also Larlo and one of the bullies kids I know are very good friends. Yet, Larlo has so awareness or empathy for what's she's going through. Which is just objectively worse. She is being targeted by a bully. Kids with social issues are not always perfect angels. Sometimes such kids need to take responsibility for their actions, and I don't think that's offensive. And yes I think teachers and administration would then be able to take actual bullying more seriously .

Targeting the kid in line that might speak is bullying. It is repetitive and the bully is in power. The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. There is no excuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think bullying is a very real and terrible thing- but must less prevalent than people often say. There are examples on this thread where a bullying label is applied when it shouldn't be.

Another example. My DD has a friend, Larlo, who this past year was in 6th grade. His parents say he is bullied and they are considering Catholic school next year.

Here are some situations he has been in lately:

1. On the lunch line, a cool kid will go toward the front of the line to talk to someone and Larlo will start yelling (you can imagine his voice as a young 6th grader), "Hey!! You're cutting! You can't do that! He's cutting!" And then the kid will respond "Shut up F-slur!" Is it horrible? Yeah. This is a not a good kid who understands you don't ever say that. But-- no one else on the line felt the need to say anything.

2. Larlo is called gay often and maybe he is but is not able to deal with it yet. Fine. But he'll cry if someone asks him if he likes a boy or if he is gay. OK, it is what it is. And then he'll say "I am going to the dance with John." Pauses. "Just as friends!!!" Then if he person he is speaking to so much as makes a face Larlo doesn't like, Larlo gets really mad and upset.

So these kinds of incidents keep happening and the parents call it bullying. Will Catholic school be better?

That is actually bullying.

Catholic Church is outwardly very homophobic but no one will call him the f word and it is actually a very welcoming shelter for gay people. Sometimes in a good way and sometimes in a horrific way.

PP you quoted. I respect what you are saying but I do not agree. A kid that goes out of his way to interact with known mean kids and call them out for borderline infractions has to take some responsibility. He's also engaging people to consider his sexuality and falling apart when they do.

To call that bullying is an insult to kids that are trying their best not to have issues with anyone and are targeted and harassed.

This is bullying and the person who says it is not is likely a bully themselves

No. It's just that there are other kids in that school who I really care about who are actually being bullied and I think that's a really sad and unfortunate thing and has been very difficult for the parents to deal with.

But the parents of Larlo who I mentioned in my first post don't want to empower him to do better socially in any way. He doesn't have to take any responsibility for annoying people who have nothing to do with him, or setting people up to say something he finds offensive. I think it's troubling that some of you seem to see yourself in the situation.

Also Larlo and one of the bullies kids I know are very good friends. Yet, Larlo has so awareness or empathy for what's she's going through. Which is just objectively worse. She is being targeted by a bully. Kids with social issues are not always perfect angels. Sometimes such kids need to take responsibility for their actions, and I don't think that's offensive. And yes I think teachers and administration would then be able to take actual bullying more seriously .

See, I would still probably classify it as bullying, but at the same time I can recognize that it’s brought on in part from Larlo’s lack of social awareness so I do understand the point you’re making.

When it comes to (at least, in my experience) boys dealing with being bullied—it seems like it’s ones that lack social intuition and are a bit awkward and in some cases inadvertently obnoxious.

It is still bullying, correct. Do a thought experiment- is it ok to be mean to someone because they might have a lack of social awareness? To say nothing of it being repetitive and from a position of power.

What if you replaced “social awareness” with having a tick or wearing glasses or some other thing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think bullying is a very real and terrible thing- but must less prevalent than people often say. There are examples on this thread where a bullying label is applied when it shouldn't be.

Another example. My DD has a friend, Larlo, who this past year was in 6th grade. His parents say he is bullied and they are considering Catholic school next year.

Here are some situations he has been in lately:

1. On the lunch line, a cool kid will go toward the front of the line to talk to someone and Larlo will start yelling (you can imagine his voice as a young 6th grader), "Hey!! You're cutting! You can't do that! He's cutting!" And then the kid will respond "Shut up F-slur!" Is it horrible? Yeah. This is a not a good kid who understands you don't ever say that. But-- no one else on the line felt the need to say anything.

2. Larlo is called gay often and maybe he is but is not able to deal with it yet. Fine. But he'll cry if someone asks him if he likes a boy or if he is gay. OK, it is what it is. And then he'll say "I am going to the dance with John." Pauses. "Just as friends!!!" Then if he person he is speaking to so much as makes a face Larlo doesn't like, Larlo gets really mad and upset.

So these kinds of incidents keep happening and the parents call it bullying. Will Catholic school be better?

That is actually bullying.

Catholic Church is outwardly very homophobic but no one will call him the f word and it is actually a very welcoming shelter for gay people. Sometimes in a good way and sometimes in a horrific way.

PP you quoted. I respect what you are saying but I do not agree. A kid that goes out of his way to interact with known mean kids and call them out for borderline infractions has to take some responsibility. He's also engaging people to consider his sexuality and falling apart when they do.

To call that bullying is an insult to kids that are trying their best not to have issues with anyone and are targeted and harassed.

This is bullying and the person who says it is not is likely a bully themselves

No. It's just that there are other kids in that school who I really care about who are actually being bullied and I think that's a really sad and unfortunate thing and has been very difficult for the parents to deal with.

But the parents of Larlo who I mentioned in my first post don't want to empower him to do better socially in any way. He doesn't have to take any responsibility for annoying people who have nothing to do with him, or setting people up to say something he finds offensive. I think it's troubling that some of you seem to see yourself in the situation.

Also Larlo and one of the bullies kids I know are very good friends. Yet, Larlo has so awareness or empathy for what's she's going through. Which is just objectively worse. She is being targeted by a bully. Kids with social issues are not always perfect angels. Sometimes such kids need to take responsibility for their actions, and I don't think that's offensive. And yes I think teachers and administration would then be able to take actual bullying more seriously .

Targeting the kid in line that might speak is bullying. It is repetitive and the bully is in power. The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. There is no excuse.

What on earth does this mean? My DD is friends with Larlo and is a kind and supportive and defends him constantly.

[Anonymous]

Mean girl bullies- often parents are oblivious or just want the girl to be popular so look the other way when gurl is mean. Maybe some mean girl parents are mean themselves.

Bullying is not just not including… it is being hateful, spreading rumors, targeting and pattern of behavior.

If the parents are informed, does that help stop the behavior? Idk. Probably depends what kind of relationship they’ve built so far, how permissive they are, and how afraid they are to enforce rules.

Fair or not, I will say a mean girl reflects shamefully on the whole family and absolutely makes the whole family look bad and get a bad reputation.

As for teachers, they don’t know who the mean girls are, at least not in MS, but once one finds out, you bet all the teachers know. It will affect mean girl’s future.

Mean girl and mean girl’s parents think she’s well liked but actually others think she’s just weird (in a bad way) and dumb. They may have lots of girls around them but these aren’t actual friends- they also think mean girl is weird and dumb.

[Anonymous]

I don't know what they know or don't know, but when confronted their response is often "I don't get involved in my kids' friendships now that they're in (insert grade here)." It's remarkable to watch.