Parents of Bullies

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes. But almost every kid bullies at some point—not all are persistent regular bullies, but every kid in elementary school does something callous and cruel, says something hurtful, or gets caught up in the moment and finds themselves laughing and playing along as someone else gets picked on — it's very normal, and a good kid will realize they did something wrong, and will feel bad and try not to ever do it again. True bullies keep it up.

So much bullying can be so subtle, something that only the victim knows how terribly painful it is...

So I'd say, in a lot of cases, no, the parents don't know... but if it's the kind of thing that keeps up, any decent parent will catch on. Some are oblivious, some don't know what to do, some are fine with it, etc.

Nope, there are only very few actual bullies. Most kids are not bullies themselves, but go along, ignore, don't care etc when someone is bullied by a bully. Then there exist kids who are bullied - a small number as well.

Please stop relativizing bullying and bullies. No, not everyone is a bully, in fact, very few kids are. But they who are, are nasty, way worse than most adults.

Well, the oblivious parent of a bully just showed up.

All kids bully. Not all kids carry out brutal campaigns of persecution physically and emotionally battering helpless kids, but if you've ever spent more than 8 minutes with a classroom of elementary school students or 3 minutes with a classroom of middle school students, or any time with any number of high school students, you will know their propensity for insensitive and cruel remarks and pack behavior that leaves someone out. YOU, dear poster, have 100 percent bullied someone. Hopefully it was brief, it was some small slight, smirk, exclusion, etc. and not a serious pattern of behavior. But you did it. And your kids did it.

And it's not relativizing anything, it's a reality. If you're a good parent, you note it and you help your child understand right from wrong, and you teach them about decency, respect, honesty, sympathy, empathy, etc. and you put them on the right track... no one is born perfect, and if you, as a parent, have never had to gently support your child in teaching them a better way to treat others, you're not doing it right. I suspect you have and I suspect you know it, but i suspect you're ashamed because you have some unhealthy idea of the way children are supposed to act.

A child making a misstep is normal. A child exhibiting a pattern of cruel behavior is not. Bad parenting turns the former into the latter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes. But almost every kid bullies at some point—not all are persistent regular bullies, but every kid in elementary school does something callous and cruel, says something hurtful, or gets caught up in the moment and finds themselves laughing and playing along as someone else gets picked on — it's very normal, and a good kid will realize they did something wrong, and will feel bad and try not to ever do it again. True bullies keep it up.

So much bullying can be so subtle, something that only the victim knows how terribly painful it is...

So I'd say, in a lot of cases, no, the parents don't know... but if it's the kind of thing that keeps up, any decent parent will catch on. Some are oblivious, some don't know what to do, some are fine with it, etc.

Nope, there are only very few actual bullies. Most kids are not bullies themselves, but go along, ignore, don't care etc when someone is bullied by a bully. Then there exist kids who are bullied - a small number as well.

Please stop relativizing bullying and bullies. No, not everyone is a bully, in fact, very few kids are. But they who are, are nasty, way worse than most adults.

Well, the oblivious parent of a bully just showed up.

All kids bully. Not all kids carry out brutal campaigns of persecution physically and emotionally battering helpless kids, but if you've ever spent more than 8 minutes with a classroom of elementary school students or 3 minutes with a classroom of middle school students, or any time with any number of high school students, you will know their propensity for insensitive and cruel remarks and pack behavior that leaves someone out. YOU, dear poster, have 100 percent bullied someone. Hopefully it was brief, it was some small slight, smirk, exclusion, etc. and not a serious pattern of behavior. But you did it. And your kids did it.

And it's not relativizing anything, it's a reality. If you're a good parent, you note it and you help your child understand right from wrong, and you teach them about decency, respect, honesty, sympathy, empathy, etc. and you put them on the right track... no one is born perfect, and if you, as a parent, have never had to gently support your child in teaching them a better way to treat others, you're not doing it right. I suspect you have and I suspect you know it, but i suspect you're ashamed because you have some unhealthy idea of the way children are supposed to act.

A child making a misstep is normal. A child exhibiting a pattern of cruel behavior is not. Bad parenting turns the former into the latter.

Anyone who has ever seen two kids in a group and then seen a third one show up has seen bullying in action. No matter the age, no matter the personalities of the children, it is human nature to form alliances and create a hierarchy and someone is going to be put on the outs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do parents of bullies know about their kids behavior or are they truly oblivious?

Oblivious, are jerks themselves, or are scared of pissing off their kids. I’ve seen all 3!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes. But almost every kid bullies at some point—not all are persistent regular bullies, but every kid in elementary school does something callous and cruel, says something hurtful, or gets caught up in the moment and finds themselves laughing and playing along as someone else gets picked on — it's very normal, and a good kid will realize they did something wrong, and will feel bad and try not to ever do it again. True bullies keep it up.

So much bullying can be so subtle, something that only the victim knows how terribly painful it is...

So I'd say, in a lot of cases, no, the parents don't know... but if it's the kind of thing that keeps up, any decent parent will catch on. Some are oblivious, some don't know what to do, some are fine with it, etc.

Nope, there are only very few actual bullies. Most kids are not bullies themselves, but go along, ignore, don't care etc when someone is bullied by a bully. Then there exist kids who are bullied - a small number as well.

Please stop relativizing bullying and bullies. No, not everyone is a bully, in fact, very few kids are. But they who are, are nasty, way worse than most adults.

Well, the oblivious parent of a bully just showed up.

All kids bully. Not all kids carry out brutal campaigns of persecution physically and emotionally battering helpless kids, but if you've ever spent more than 8 minutes with a classroom of elementary school students or 3 minutes with a classroom of middle school students, or any time with any number of high school students, you will know their propensity for insensitive and cruel remarks and pack behavior that leaves someone out. YOU, dear poster, have 100 percent bullied someone. Hopefully it was brief, it was some small slight, smirk, exclusion, etc. and not a serious pattern of behavior. But you did it. And your kids did it.

And it's not relativizing anything, it's a reality. If you're a good parent, you note it and you help your child understand right from wrong, and you teach them about decency, respect, honesty, sympathy, empathy, etc. and you put them on the right track... no one is born perfect, and if you, as a parent, have never had to gently support your child in teaching them a better way to treat others, you're not doing it right. I suspect you have and I suspect you know it, but i suspect you're ashamed because you have some unhealthy idea of the way children are supposed to act.

A child making a misstep is normal. A child exhibiting a pattern of cruel behavior is not. Bad parenting turns the former into the latter.

Reality is that some kids are bullies and some aren't. Some kids are bad, in many cases, irredeemably so, and some aren't.

Your kid is one of the nasty ones. Which is why you keep showing on every topic explaining how there is a little bully in everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes. But almost every kid bullies at some point—not all are persistent regular bullies, but every kid in elementary school does something callous and cruel, says something hurtful, or gets caught up in the moment and finds themselves laughing and playing along as someone else gets picked on — it's very normal, and a good kid will realize they did something wrong, and will feel bad and try not to ever do it again. True bullies keep it up.

So much bullying can be so subtle, something that only the victim knows how terribly painful it is...

So I'd say, in a lot of cases, no, the parents don't know... but if it's the kind of thing that keeps up, any decent parent will catch on. Some are oblivious, some don't know what to do, some are fine with it, etc.

Nope, there are only very few actual bullies. Most kids are not bullies themselves, but go along, ignore, don't care etc when someone is bullied by a bully. Then there exist kids who are bullied - a small number as well.

Please stop relativizing bullying and bullies. No, not everyone is a bully, in fact, very few kids are. But they who are, are nasty, way worse than most adults.

I've seen my kid treat another child the way they shouldn't and I did what a parent is supposed to do and I corrected the behavior and used it to help them be a better person.

You pretend your kid doesn't hurt people's feelings, but they do and people look at you very differently from how you look at yourself. It would be better to teach your child that it's okay to make mistakes as long as you try to be better than to teach them that they're never wrong, which is a lie and will only lead them to hurt others more as they get older.
Well, the oblivious parent of a bully just showed up.

All kids bully. Not all kids carry out brutal campaigns of persecution physically and emotionally battering helpless kids, but if you've ever spent more than 8 minutes with a classroom of elementary school students or 3 minutes with a classroom of middle school students, or any time with any number of high school students, you will know their propensity for insensitive and cruel remarks and pack behavior that leaves someone out. YOU, dear poster, have 100 percent bullied someone. Hopefully it was brief, it was some small slight, smirk, exclusion, etc. and not a serious pattern of behavior. But you did it. And your kids did it.

And it's not relativizing anything, it's a reality. If you're a good parent, you note it and you help your child understand right from wrong, and you teach them about decency, respect, honesty, sympathy, empathy, etc. and you put them on the right track... no one is born perfect, and if you, as a parent, have never had to gently support your child in teaching them a better way to treat others, you're not doing it right. I suspect you have and I suspect you know it, but i suspect you're ashamed because you have some unhealthy idea of the way children are supposed to act.

A child making a misstep is normal. A child exhibiting a pattern of cruel behavior is not. Bad parenting turns the former into the latter.

Reality is that some kids are bullies and some aren't. Some kids are bad, in many cases, irredeemably so, and some aren't.

Your kid is one of the nasty ones. Which is why you keep showing on every topic explaining how there is a little bully in everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes. But almost every kid bullies at some point—not all are persistent regular bullies, but every kid in elementary school does something callous and cruel, says something hurtful, or gets caught up in the moment and finds themselves laughing and playing along as someone else gets picked on — it's very normal, and a good kid will realize they did something wrong, and will feel bad and try not to ever do it again. True bullies keep it up.

So much bullying can be so subtle, something that only the victim knows how terribly painful it is...

So I'd say, in a lot of cases, no, the parents don't know... but if it's the kind of thing that keeps up, any decent parent will catch on. Some are oblivious, some don't know what to do, some are fine with it, etc.

Nope, there are only very few actual bullies. Most kids are not bullies themselves, but go along, ignore, don't care etc when someone is bullied by a bully. Then there exist kids who are bullied - a small number as well.

Please stop relativizing bullying and bullies. No, not everyone is a bully, in fact, very few kids are. But they who are, are nasty, way worse than most adults.

I've seen my kid treat another child the way they shouldn't and I did what a parent is supposed to do and I corrected the behavior and used it to help them be a better person.

You pretend your kid doesn't hurt people's feelings, but they do and people look at you very differently from how you look at yourself. It would be better to teach your child that it's okay to make mistakes as long as you try to be better than to teach them that they're never wrong, which is a lie and will only lead them to hurt others more as they get older.
Well, the oblivious parent of a bully just showed up.

All kids bully. Not all kids carry out brutal campaigns of persecution physically and emotionally battering helpless kids, but if you've ever spent more than 8 minutes with a classroom of elementary school students or 3 minutes with a classroom of middle school students, or any time with any number of high school students, you will know their propensity for insensitive and cruel remarks and pack behavior that leaves someone out. YOU, dear poster, have 100 percent bullied someone. Hopefully it was brief, it was some small slight, smirk, exclusion, etc. and not a serious pattern of behavior. But you did it. And your kids did it.

And it's not relativizing anything, it's a reality. If you're a good parent, you note it and you help your child understand right from wrong, and you teach them about decency, respect, honesty, sympathy, empathy, etc. and you put them on the right track... no one is born perfect, and if you, as a parent, have never had to gently support your child in teaching them a better way to treat others, you're not doing it right. I suspect you have and I suspect you know it, but i suspect you're ashamed because you have some unhealthy idea of the way children are supposed to act.

A child making a misstep is normal. A child exhibiting a pattern of cruel behavior is not. Bad parenting turns the former into the latter.

Reality is that some kids are bullies and some aren't. Some kids are bad, in many cases, irredeemably so, and some aren't.

Your kid is one of the nasty ones. Which is why you keep showing on every topic explaining how there is a little bully in everyone.

I've seen my kid treat another child the way they shouldn't and I did what a parent is supposed to do and I corrected the behavior and used it to help them be a better person.

You pretend your kid doesn't hurt people's feelings, but they do and people look at you very differently from how you look at yourself. It would be better to teach your child that it's okay to make mistakes as long as you try to be better than to teach them that they're never wrong, which is a lie and will only lead them to hurt others more as they get older.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My experience is in elementary schools but almost all the jerk kids have jerk parents.

This

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes. But almost every kid bullies at some point—not all are persistent regular bullies, but every kid in elementary school does something callous and cruel, says something hurtful, or gets caught up in the moment and finds themselves laughing and playing along as someone else gets picked on — it's very normal, and a good kid will realize they did something wrong, and will feel bad and try not to ever do it again. True bullies keep it up.

So much bullying can be so subtle, something that only the victim knows how terribly painful it is...

So I'd say, in a lot of cases, no, the parents don't know... but if it's the kind of thing that keeps up, any decent parent will catch on. Some are oblivious, some don't know what to do, some are fine with it, etc.

Nope, there are only very few actual bullies. Most kids are not bullies themselves, but go along, ignore, don't care etc when someone is bullied by a bully. Then there exist kids who are bullied - a small number as well.

Please stop relativizing bullying and bullies. No, not everyone is a bully, in fact, very few kids are. But they who are, are nasty, way worse than most adults.

I've seen my kid treat another child the way they shouldn't and I did what a parent is supposed to do and I corrected the behavior and used it to help them be a better person.

You pretend your kid doesn't hurt people's feelings, but they do and people look at you very differently from how you look at yourself. It would be better to teach your child that it's okay to make mistakes as long as you try to be better than to teach them that they're never wrong, which is a lie and will only lead them to hurt others more as they get older.
Well, the oblivious parent of a bully just showed up.

All kids bully. Not all kids carry out brutal campaigns of persecution physically and emotionally battering helpless kids, but if you've ever spent more than 8 minutes with a classroom of elementary school students or 3 minutes with a classroom of middle school students, or any time with any number of high school students, you will know their propensity for insensitive and cruel remarks and pack behavior that leaves someone out. YOU, dear poster, have 100 percent bullied someone. Hopefully it was brief, it was some small slight, smirk, exclusion, etc. and not a serious pattern of behavior. But you did it. And your kids did it.

And it's not relativizing anything, it's a reality. If you're a good parent, you note it and you help your child understand right from wrong, and you teach them about decency, respect, honesty, sympathy, empathy, etc. and you put them on the right track... no one is born perfect, and if you, as a parent, have never had to gently support your child in teaching them a better way to treat others, you're not doing it right. I suspect you have and I suspect you know it, but i suspect you're ashamed because you have some unhealthy idea of the way children are supposed to act.

A child making a misstep is normal. A child exhibiting a pattern of cruel behavior is not. Bad parenting turns the former into the latter.

Reality is that some kids are bullies and some aren't. Some kids are bad, in many cases, irredeemably so, and some aren't.

Your kid is one of the nasty ones. Which is why you keep showing on every topic explaining how there is a little bully in everyone.

I've seen my kid treat another child the way they shouldn't and I did what a parent is supposed to do and I corrected the behavior and used it to help them be a better person.

You pretend your kid doesn't hurt people's feelings, but they do and people look at you very differently from how you look at yourself. It would be better to teach your child that it's okay to make mistakes as long as you try to be better than to teach them that they're never wrong, which is a lie and will only lead them to hurt others more as they get older.

please stop. your kid has clearly never been bullied, or you wouldn't be using anodyne terms such as "hurting feelings" or "being unkind". you have no clue what you are talking about, ok?

[Anonymous]

My kid's bully of many years (a true and documented bully, not just a random meanie) has oblivious parents and cruel older siblings. When I see their public interactions, it's almost as upsetting to see how the older siblings treat my child's bully as it is to hear how my child was treated. It makes it obvious where the behavior comes from. The parents are totally checked out and the kids are frequently being raised by the grandparents while the parents go on couples' trips, and you can see the kids visibly and audibly fighting one another for attention and status.

The kids who are plain mean to my kid (and not bullies) have parents who are actually proud of the behavior and label it things like extroversion, confidence, leadership, etc.

The most difficult kids are the bullies who turn into bullies themselves. I suppose they're also the most challenging for schools to manage, because one day they're receiving complaints that child x is being bullied, and the next day child x is bullying someone lower down in the pecking order. The parents probably push back and say that it's impossible because their child is a victim already.

So no, no parents of bullies realize their kid is a bully. I'm the adult sister-in-law of someone who is so dangerous and unpredictable that they have actual protective orders against them, and my ILs still deny that anything is wrong. I think it's human nature to assume the best of your offspring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes. But almost every kid bullies at some point—not all are persistent regular bullies, but every kid in elementary school does something callous and cruel, says something hurtful, or gets caught up in the moment and finds themselves laughing and playing along as someone else gets picked on — it's very normal, and a good kid will realize they did something wrong, and will feel bad and try not to ever do it again. True bullies keep it up.

So much bullying can be so subtle, something that only the victim knows how terribly painful it is...

So I'd say, in a lot of cases, no, the parents don't know... but if it's the kind of thing that keeps up, any decent parent will catch on. Some are oblivious, some don't know what to do, some are fine with it, etc.

Nope, there are only very few actual bullies. Most kids are not bullies themselves, but go along, ignore, don't care etc when someone is bullied by a bully. Then there exist kids who are bullied - a small number as well.

Please stop relativizing bullying and bullies. No, not everyone is a bully, in fact, very few kids are. But they who are, are nasty, way worse than most adults.

I've seen my kid treat another child the way they shouldn't and I did what a parent is supposed to do and I corrected the behavior and used it to help them be a better person.

You pretend your kid doesn't hurt people's feelings, but they do and people look at you very differently from how you look at yourself. It would be better to teach your child that it's okay to make mistakes as long as you try to be better than to teach them that they're never wrong, which is a lie and will only lead them to hurt others more as they get older.
Well, the oblivious parent of a bully just showed up.

All kids bully. Not all kids carry out brutal campaigns of persecution physically and emotionally battering helpless kids, but if you've ever spent more than 8 minutes with a classroom of elementary school students or 3 minutes with a classroom of middle school students, or any time with any number of high school students, you will know their propensity for insensitive and cruel remarks and pack behavior that leaves someone out. YOU, dear poster, have 100 percent bullied someone. Hopefully it was brief, it was some small slight, smirk, exclusion, etc. and not a serious pattern of behavior. But you did it. And your kids did it.

And it's not relativizing anything, it's a reality. If you're a good parent, you note it and you help your child understand right from wrong, and you teach them about decency, respect, honesty, sympathy, empathy, etc. and you put them on the right track... no one is born perfect, and if you, as a parent, have never had to gently support your child in teaching them a better way to treat others, you're not doing it right. I suspect you have and I suspect you know it, but i suspect you're ashamed because you have some unhealthy idea of the way children are supposed to act.

A child making a misstep is normal. A child exhibiting a pattern of cruel behavior is not. Bad parenting turns the former into the latter.

Reality is that some kids are bullies and some aren't. Some kids are bad, in many cases, irredeemably so, and some aren't.

Your kid is one of the nasty ones. Which is why you keep showing on every topic explaining how there is a little bully in everyone.

I've seen my kid treat another child the way they shouldn't and I did what a parent is supposed to do and I corrected the behavior and used it to help them be a better person.

You pretend your kid doesn't hurt people's feelings, but they do and people look at you very differently from how you look at yourself. It would be better to teach your child that it's okay to make mistakes as long as you try to be better than to teach them that they're never wrong, which is a lie and will only lead them to hurt others more as they get older.

please stop. your kid has clearly never been bullied, or you wouldn't be using anodyne terms such as "hurting feelings" or "being unkind". you have no clue what you are talking about, ok?

Not sure what you're trying to accomplish. Bullying is bad, a lot of kids unwittingly do cruel things and their parents can't imagine it. That's part of the larger picture, not sure why you're thrashing so hard against that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Generally they do not know. My kids have always said that the nastiest peers were the ones very well regarded by teachers/parents- yet absolutely horrible to peers when adults were not around. Those kids totally fly under the radar while teachers/parents deal with the more low hanging fruit (kids who are not truly mean but can be inappropriate or somewhat disruptive, or have some social or academic issues to address).

I think there are also lots of cases where one person thinks it's playing or joking or fun teasing and someone else is getting crushed.

In elementary school I was very good friends with two other kids—a boy and a girl. We were all dweebs and members in very good standing of the chess club—no one you would normally define as socially dominant. At some point in 4th grade, the other boy started teasing the girl about various things, her hair, her thick new york accent, etc. and she, being a tough and smart girl, gave it back to him pretty good. It was super funny. Sometimes I'd join in when he was doing it and she always came back with zingers to me—haha, very funny!

Then one day, her mother called my mother and said that she was sick of me relentlessly bullying her poor daughter. My mother was horrified and laid into me, I had to write an apology to her and apologize to her parents... and I was completely stunned, I had no idea what was going on! She was my friend! She teases me all the time! Plus, I reasoned, I don't say HALF the things that the other boy says! Plus, as noted by my chess club status, it was boggling to think (in my mind) that I had any sort of social influence/capital to ever punch down at anyone! I was literally the bottom of the heap! How could I bully anyone?

What was really going on was that the two of them liked each other—in the 4th grade way where they're expressing some mild form of puppy love by teasing—and even though he was saying worse things, when he said them, she didn't mind, she liked the attention. When I said them, I was just a boy saying mean things. And just because she was arguably smarter and less of a dork than me, and could snap back expertly, and just because I was, on the scale of elementary school, one of the least likely people to bully anyone, I said stuff that made her feel bad, and as unfair/unbelievable as it may have seemed to me at the time, I was saying things that made her go home and cry at night. It doesn't matter that most of the school was far harsher to the three of us than anything I did to her, I'm sure she still remembers me as the boy who ruined her fourth grade year.

I think there's a valuable lesson in that, and I tried to apply it going forward—you have to be so, so careful about what you say, you have to be so, so careful about context... something that seems like harmless play or teasing, could be felt in ways you don't understand, for reasons you don't understand, and it doesn't matter if you meant it, if you're actually a bad person, etc.

I’m glad you’re not bitter about it, and I agree there’s nuance in a lot of situations (i.e. a best friend can say stuff in a teasing way that an acquaintance saying would be not okay at all).

But you all three of you were bffs, I dunno. I would be kinda PO’d by the girl’s reaction.

If all else was equal, and the only difference between you and the other boy was that she “like—liked” him… then even critically thinking as an adult it’s like “okay, apparently someone/society taught this girl that verbal abuse is fine if it’s coming from someone you’re romantically (I know it was just an elementary school crush, but for lack of a better word that’s what I’m going with) interested in”.

I mean if you just had a hard time interpreting social cues, or you weren’t as good of friends with the other two kids—that’s an entirely different issue and in which case I would understand her hurt feelings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Generally they do not know. My kids have always said that the nastiest peers were the ones very well regarded by teachers/parents- yet absolutely horrible to peers when adults were not around. Those kids totally fly under the radar while teachers/parents deal with the more low hanging fruit (kids who are not truly mean but can be inappropriate or somewhat disruptive, or have some social or academic issues to address).

I think there are also lots of cases where one person thinks it's playing or joking or fun teasing and someone else is getting crushed.

In elementary school I was very good friends with two other kids—a boy and a girl. We were all dweebs and members in very good standing of the chess club—no one you would normally define as socially dominant. At some point in 4th grade, the other boy started teasing the girl about various things, her hair, her thick new york accent, etc. and she, being a tough and smart girl, gave it back to him pretty good. It was super funny. Sometimes I'd join in when he was doing it and she always came back with zingers to me—haha, very funny!

Then one day, her mother called my mother and said that she was sick of me relentlessly bullying her poor daughter. My mother was horrified and laid into me, I had to write an apology to her and apologize to her parents... and I was completely stunned, I had no idea what was going on! She was my friend! She teases me all the time! Plus, I reasoned, I don't say HALF the things that the other boy says! Plus, as noted by my chess club status, it was boggling to think (in my mind) that I had any sort of social influence/capital to ever punch down at anyone! I was literally the bottom of the heap! How could I bully anyone?

What was really going on was that the two of them liked each other—in the 4th grade way where they're expressing some mild form of puppy love by teasing—and even though he was saying worse things, when he said them, she didn't mind, she liked the attention. When I said them, I was just a boy saying mean things. And just because she was arguably smarter and less of a dork than me, and could snap back expertly, and just because I was, on the scale of elementary school, one of the least likely people to bully anyone, I said stuff that made her feel bad, and as unfair/unbelievable as it may have seemed to me at the time, I was saying things that made her go home and cry at night. It doesn't matter that most of the school was far harsher to the three of us than anything I did to her, I'm sure she still remembers me as the boy who ruined her fourth grade year.

I think there's a valuable lesson in that, and I tried to apply it going forward—you have to be so, so careful about what you say, you have to be so, so careful about context... something that seems like harmless play or teasing, could be felt in ways you don't understand, for reasons you don't understand, and it doesn't matter if you meant it, if you're actually a bad person, etc.

I’m glad you’re not bitter about it, and I agree there’s nuance in a lot of situations (i.e. a best friend can say stuff in a teasing way that an acquaintance saying would be not okay at all).

But you all three of you were bffs, I dunno. I would be kinda PO’d by the girl’s reaction.

If all else was equal, and the only difference between you and the other boy was that she “like—liked” him… then even critically thinking as an adult it’s like “okay, apparently someone/society taught this girl that verbal abuse is fine if it’s coming from someone you’re romantically (I know it was just an elementary school crush, but for lack of a better word that’s what I’m going with) interested in”.

I mean if you just had a hard time interpreting social cues, or you weren’t as good of friends with the other two kids—that’s an entirely different issue and in which case I would understand her hurt feelings.

It was 35 years ago, so I don’t waste a lot of time trying to analyze the situation, but I was a kid who was very aware of what bullying was, as a certified dork, I really liked both of these kids, and was completely blindsided when her mother angrily called mine, because I didn’t have an ounce of malice in me. But I do know that the things I was saying weren’t nice, even if I thought it was harmless back and forth that she seemed to always have the upper hand in. If she ever thinks of it she probably remembers me as someone who made her 4th grade hell…

And my point is that I was a good kid, I’m a good person now, but whether it was missing social cues, catching the unfortunate end of a 4th grade love triangle, running into an overly sensitive person or whatever, one could reasonably say that I bullied her, and it’s not an extraordinary situation. It was an opportunity to teach me to be a better person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oblivious. In fact, most think their kids are very popular and well-liked.

I think this is true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The bullies lie to their parents “well he did this to me” or “I never said that”

I think parents blindly believe their kids

I think most parents don't hear anything at all. They literally have no idea conflict is happening and schools don't or can't give them enough informaiton to be a part of solving the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The bullies lie to their parents “well he did this to me” or “I never said that”

I think parents blindly believe their kids

I think most parents don't hear anything at all. They literally have no idea conflict is happening and schools don't or can't give them enough informaiton to be a part of solving the problem.

And few parents think their could is a POS psycho. So it can be hard to recognize.