Parents of Bullies

[Anonymous]

Parent of older teenagers here, and in my experience, if they even have an inkling, they sort of dance around it with, "Larla is so competitive" or "Larlo seems to be really charismatic". I can't hear those words without thinking, "Ohhhh you actually *do* know your kid is a bully!"

[Anonymous]

I think bullying is a very real and terrible thing- but must less prevalent than people often say. There are examples on this thread where a bullying label is applied when it shouldn't be.

Another example. My DD has a friend, Larlo, who this past year was in 6th grade. His parents say he is bullied and they are considering Catholic school next year.

Here are some situations he has been in lately:

1. On the lunch line, a cool kid will go toward the front of the line to talk to someone and Larlo will start yelling (you can imagine his voice as a young 6th grader), "Hey!! You're cutting! You can't do that! He's cutting!" And then the kid will respond "Shut up F-slur!" Is it horrible? Yeah. This is a not a good kid who understands you don't ever say that. But-- no one else on the line felt the need to say anything.

2. Larlo is called gay often and maybe he is but is not able to deal with it yet. Fine. But he'll cry if someone asks him if he likes a boy or if he is gay. OK, it is what it is. And then he'll say "I am going to the dance with John." Pauses. "Just as friends!!!" Then if he person he is speaking to so much as makes a face Larlo doesn't like, Larlo gets really mad and upset.

So these kinds of incidents keep happening and the parents call it bullying. Will Catholic school be better?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think bullying is a very real and terrible thing- but must less prevalent than people often say. There are examples on this thread where a bullying label is applied when it shouldn't be.

Another example. My DD has a friend, Larlo, who this past year was in 6th grade. His parents say he is bullied and they are considering Catholic school next year.

Here are some situations he has been in lately:

1. On the lunch line, a cool kid will go toward the front of the line to talk to someone and Larlo will start yelling (you can imagine his voice as a young 6th grader), "Hey!! You're cutting! You can't do that! He's cutting!" And then the kid will respond "Shut up F-slur!" Is it horrible? Yeah. This is a not a good kid who understands you don't ever say that. But-- no one else on the line felt the need to say anything.

2. Larlo is called gay often and maybe he is but is not able to deal with it yet. Fine. But he'll cry if someone asks him if he likes a boy or if he is gay. OK, it is what it is. And then he'll say "I am going to the dance with John." Pauses. "Just as friends!!!" Then if he person he is speaking to so much as makes a face Larlo doesn't like, Larlo gets really mad and upset.

So these kinds of incidents keep happening and the parents call it bullying. Will Catholic school be better?

That is actually bullying.

Catholic Church is outwardly very homophobic but no one will call him the f word and it is actually a very welcoming shelter for gay people. Sometimes in a good way and sometimes in a horrific way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think bullying is a very real and terrible thing- but must less prevalent than people often say. There are examples on this thread where a bullying label is applied when it shouldn't be.

Another example. My DD has a friend, Larlo, who this past year was in 6th grade. His parents say he is bullied and they are considering Catholic school next year.

Here are some situations he has been in lately:

1. On the lunch line, a cool kid will go toward the front of the line to talk to someone and Larlo will start yelling (you can imagine his voice as a young 6th grader), "Hey!! You're cutting! You can't do that! He's cutting!" And then the kid will respond "Shut up F-slur!" Is it horrible? Yeah. This is a not a good kid who understands you don't ever say that. But-- no one else on the line felt the need to say anything.

2. Larlo is called gay often and maybe he is but is not able to deal with it yet. Fine. But he'll cry if someone asks him if he likes a boy or if he is gay. OK, it is what it is. And then he'll say "I am going to the dance with John." Pauses. "Just as friends!!!" Then if he person he is speaking to so much as makes a face Larlo doesn't like, Larlo gets really mad and upset.

So these kinds of incidents keep happening and the parents call it bullying. Will Catholic school be better?

That is actually bullying.

Catholic Church is outwardly very homophobic but no one will call him the f word and it is actually a very welcoming shelter for gay people. Sometimes in a good way and sometimes in a horrific way.

PP you quoted. I respect what you are saying but I do not agree. A kid that goes out of his way to interact with known mean kids and call them out for borderline infractions has to take some responsibility. He's also engaging people to consider his sexuality and falling apart when they do.

To call that bullying is an insult to kids that are trying their best not to have issues with anyone and are targeted and harassed.

[Anonymous]

There seem to be several sources of bullying

1) Kids who come from violent homes.
2) Kids whose parents do something barely legal for a living and communicate the value that following rules is for suckers.
3) Kids who use their social status as weapons. Interestingly, I find that these kids have pretty negative parents; nothing is quite good enough. I don't think they are happy people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think bullying is a very real and terrible thing- but must less prevalent than people often say. There are examples on this thread where a bullying label is applied when it shouldn't be.

Another example. My DD has a friend, Larlo, who this past year was in 6th grade. His parents say he is bullied and they are considering Catholic school next year.

Here are some situations he has been in lately:

1. On the lunch line, a cool kid will go toward the front of the line to talk to someone and Larlo will start yelling (you can imagine his voice as a young 6th grader), "Hey!! You're cutting! You can't do that! He's cutting!" And then the kid will respond "Shut up F-slur!" Is it horrible? Yeah. This is a not a good kid who understands you don't ever say that. But-- no one else on the line felt the need to say anything.

2. Larlo is called gay often and maybe he is but is not able to deal with it yet. Fine. But he'll cry if someone asks him if he likes a boy or if he is gay. OK, it is what it is. And then he'll say "I am going to the dance with John." Pauses. "Just as friends!!!" Then if he person he is speaking to so much as makes a face Larlo doesn't like, Larlo gets really mad and upset.

So these kinds of incidents keep happening and the parents call it bullying. Will Catholic school be better?

That is actually bullying.

Catholic Church is outwardly very homophobic but no one will call him the f word and it is actually a very welcoming shelter for gay people. Sometimes in a good way and sometimes in a horrific way.

PP you quoted. I respect what you are saying but I do not agree. A kid that goes out of his way to interact with known mean kids and call them out for borderline infractions has to take some responsibility. He's also engaging people to consider his sexuality and falling apart when they do.

To call that bullying is an insult to kids that are trying their best not to have issues with anyone and are targeted and harassed.

"Hey kid, if you weren't such an effeminate dweeb who talks too much, the cool kids wouldn't have to put you in your place!"

It's bullying.

And it doesn't insult anyone to call it that. It's not like there are only five bullying slots available today and if we give the kid who isn't so beaten down yet that he still thinks he's allowed to talk out loud a bullying slot, the kid who is already terrorized and pursued by bullies can't have one.

Also, the kids who cut in line and then call anyone who protests the f-word are the same kids who are bullying in the cases you're willing to recognize.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There seem to be several sources of bullying

1) Kids who come from violent homes.
2) Kids whose parents do something barely legal for a living and communicate the value that following rules is for suckers.
3) Kids who use their social status as weapons. Interestingly, I find that these kids have pretty negative parents; nothing is quite good enough. I don't think they are happy people.

Bullies can come from any type of home. What matters is whether it is addressed. Kids who never get told "no" and who are endlessly praised and who have parents who flounce around announcing "my child would NEVER bully" are the real problems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes. But almost every kid bullies at some point—not all are persistent regular bullies, but every kid in elementary school does something callous and cruel, says something hurtful, or gets caught up in the moment and finds themselves laughing and playing along as someone else gets picked on — it's very normal, and a good kid will realize they did something wrong, and will feel bad and try not to ever do it again. True bullies keep it up.

So much bullying can be so subtle, something that only the victim knows how terribly painful it is...

So I'd say, in a lot of cases, no, the parents don't know... but if it's the kind of thing that keeps up, any decent parent will catch on. Some are oblivious, some don't know what to do, some are fine with it, etc.

Nope, there are only very few actual bullies. Most kids are not bullies themselves, but go along, ignore, don't care etc when someone is bullied by a bully. Then there exist kids who are bullied - a small number as well.

Please stop relativizing bullying and bullies. No, not everyone is a bully, in fact, very few kids are. But they who are, are nasty, way worse than most adults.

I've seen my kid treat another child the way they shouldn't and I did what a parent is supposed to do and I corrected the behavior and used it to help them be a better person.

You pretend your kid doesn't hurt people's feelings, but they do and people look at you very differently from how you look at yourself. It would be better to teach your child that it's okay to make mistakes as long as you try to be better than to teach them that they're never wrong, which is a lie and will only lead them to hurt others more as they get older.
Well, the oblivious parent of a bully just showed up.

All kids bully. Not all kids carry out brutal campaigns of persecution physically and emotionally battering helpless kids, but if you've ever spent more than 8 minutes with a classroom of elementary school students or 3 minutes with a classroom of middle school students, or any time with any number of high school students, you will know their propensity for insensitive and cruel remarks and pack behavior that leaves someone out. YOU, dear poster, have 100 percent bullied someone. Hopefully it was brief, it was some small slight, smirk, exclusion, etc. and not a serious pattern of behavior. But you did it. And your kids did it.

And it's not relativizing anything, it's a reality. If you're a good parent, you note it and you help your child understand right from wrong, and you teach them about decency, respect, honesty, sympathy, empathy, etc. and you put them on the right track... no one is born perfect, and if you, as a parent, have never had to gently support your child in teaching them a better way to treat others, you're not doing it right. I suspect you have and I suspect you know it, but i suspect you're ashamed because you have some unhealthy idea of the way children are supposed to act.

A child making a misstep is normal. A child exhibiting a pattern of cruel behavior is not. Bad parenting turns the former into the latter.

Reality is that some kids are bullies and some aren't. Some kids are bad, in many cases, irredeemably so, and some aren't.

Your kid is one of the nasty ones. Which is why you keep showing on every topic explaining how there is a little bully in everyone.

I've seen my kid treat another child the way they shouldn't and I did what a parent is supposed to do and I corrected the behavior and used it to help them be a better person.

You pretend your kid doesn't hurt people's feelings, but they do and people look at you very differently from how you look at yourself. It would be better to teach your child that it's okay to make mistakes as long as you try to be better than to teach them that they're never wrong, which is a lie and will only lead them to hurt others more as they get older.

please stop. your kid has clearly never been bullied, or you wouldn't be using anodyne terms such as "hurting feelings" or "being unkind". you have no clue what you are talking about, ok?

Not sure what you're trying to accomplish. Bullying is bad, a lot of kids unwittingly do cruel things and their parents can't imagine it. That's part of the larger picture, not sure why you're thrashing so hard against that.

because you are relativizing bullying. for you, bullying is everything ("being unkind" or "saying things that shouldn't be said") and everybody is a bit of a bully. you have repeatedly said, here and elsewhere (i remember you from previous discussions), that my kid, who has been relentlessly bullied for a year by a group of jealous, mean girls to a point we had to change schools (advice by 3 different psychiatrist as absolutely urgent), is also a little bit of a bully. if not today, then tomorrow. just like all of us.

in reality, bullying is rare, and very few kids are bullies. in our case, a lot of kids went along with the bullies, out of conformity, fear for their own status, because they simply didn't care or they didn't know my child well. those kids are not paragons of morality, they will not stand up for bullies etc, but they are not bullies and would, on their own, not instigate 1% of what was done to my child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes. But almost every kid bullies at some point—not all are persistent regular bullies, but every kid in elementary school does something callous and cruel, says something hurtful, or gets caught up in the moment and finds themselves laughing and playing along as someone else gets picked on — it's very normal, and a good kid will realize they did something wrong, and will feel bad and try not to ever do it again. True bullies keep it up.

So much bullying can be so subtle, something that only the victim knows how terribly painful it is...

So I'd say, in a lot of cases, no, the parents don't know... but if it's the kind of thing that keeps up, any decent parent will catch on. Some are oblivious, some don't know what to do, some are fine with it, etc.

Nope, there are only very few actual bullies. Most kids are not bullies themselves, but go along, ignore, don't care etc when someone is bullied by a bully. Then there exist kids who are bullied - a small number as well.

Please stop relativizing bullying and bullies. No, not everyone is a bully, in fact, very few kids are. But they who are, are nasty, way worse than most adults.

I've seen my kid treat another child the way they shouldn't and I did what a parent is supposed to do and I corrected the behavior and used it to help them be a better person.

You pretend your kid doesn't hurt people's feelings, but they do and people look at you very differently from how you look at yourself. It would be better to teach your child that it's okay to make mistakes as long as you try to be better than to teach them that they're never wrong, which is a lie and will only lead them to hurt others more as they get older.
Well, the oblivious parent of a bully just showed up.

All kids bully. Not all kids carry out brutal campaigns of persecution physically and emotionally battering helpless kids, but if you've ever spent more than 8 minutes with a classroom of elementary school students or 3 minutes with a classroom of middle school students, or any time with any number of high school students, you will know their propensity for insensitive and cruel remarks and pack behavior that leaves someone out. YOU, dear poster, have 100 percent bullied someone. Hopefully it was brief, it was some small slight, smirk, exclusion, etc. and not a serious pattern of behavior. But you did it. And your kids did it.

And it's not relativizing anything, it's a reality. If you're a good parent, you note it and you help your child understand right from wrong, and you teach them about decency, respect, honesty, sympathy, empathy, etc. and you put them on the right track... no one is born perfect, and if you, as a parent, have never had to gently support your child in teaching them a better way to treat others, you're not doing it right. I suspect you have and I suspect you know it, but i suspect you're ashamed because you have some unhealthy idea of the way children are supposed to act.

A child making a misstep is normal. A child exhibiting a pattern of cruel behavior is not. Bad parenting turns the former into the latter.

Reality is that some kids are bullies and some aren't. Some kids are bad, in many cases, irredeemably so, and some aren't.

Your kid is one of the nasty ones. Which is why you keep showing on every topic explaining how there is a little bully in everyone.

I've seen my kid treat another child the way they shouldn't and I did what a parent is supposed to do and I corrected the behavior and used it to help them be a better person.

You pretend your kid doesn't hurt people's feelings, but they do and people look at you very differently from how you look at yourself. It would be better to teach your child that it's okay to make mistakes as long as you try to be better than to teach them that they're never wrong, which is a lie and will only lead them to hurt others more as they get older.

please stop. your kid has clearly never been bullied, or you wouldn't be using anodyne terms such as "hurting feelings" or "being unkind". you have no clue what you are talking about, ok?

Not sure what you're trying to accomplish. Bullying is bad, a lot of kids unwittingly do cruel things and their parents can't imagine it. That's part of the larger picture, not sure why you're thrashing so hard against that.

because you are relativizing bullying. for you, bullying is everything ("being unkind" or "saying things that shouldn't be said") and everybody is a bit of a bully. you have repeatedly said, here and elsewhere (i remember you from previous discussions), that my kid, who has been relentlessly bullied for a year by a group of jealous, mean girls to a point we had to change schools (advice by 3 different psychiatrist as absolutely urgent), is also a little bit of a bully. if not today, then tomorrow. just like all of us.

in reality, bullying is rare, and very few kids are bullies. in our case, a lot of kids went along with the bullies, out of conformity, fear for their own status, because they simply didn't care or they didn't know my child well. those kids are not paragons of morality, they will not stand up for bullies etc, but they are not bullies and would, on their own, not instigate 1% of what was done to my child.

I’m sorry your kid was bullied, but casually telling people that things they have experienced are not bullying because you don’t view at as severe as what your child experienced only serves to normalize bullying.

All bullying - the severe kind that happened to your child and the bullying that other children experience that you don’t know much about but declare is not as severe - is wrong. That’s it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes. But almost every kid bullies at some point—not all are persistent regular bullies, but every kid in elementary school does something callous and cruel, says something hurtful, or gets caught up in the moment and finds themselves laughing and playing along as someone else gets picked on — it's very normal, and a good kid will realize they did something wrong, and will feel bad and try not to ever do it again. True bullies keep it up.

So much bullying can be so subtle, something that only the victim knows how terribly painful it is...

So I'd say, in a lot of cases, no, the parents don't know... but if it's the kind of thing that keeps up, any decent parent will catch on. Some are oblivious, some don't know what to do, some are fine with it, etc.

Nope, there are only very few actual bullies. Most kids are not bullies themselves, but go along, ignore, don't care etc when someone is bullied by a bully. Then there exist kids who are bullied - a small number as well.

Please stop relativizing bullying and bullies. No, not everyone is a bully, in fact, very few kids are. But they who are, are nasty, way worse than most adults.

I've seen my kid treat another child the way they shouldn't and I did what a parent is supposed to do and I corrected the behavior and used it to help them be a better person.

You pretend your kid doesn't hurt people's feelings, but they do and people look at you very differently from how you look at yourself. It would be better to teach your child that it's okay to make mistakes as long as you try to be better than to teach them that they're never wrong, which is a lie and will only lead them to hurt others more as they get older.
Well, the oblivious parent of a bully just showed up.

All kids bully. Not all kids carry out brutal campaigns of persecution physically and emotionally battering helpless kids, but if you've ever spent more than 8 minutes with a classroom of elementary school students or 3 minutes with a classroom of middle school students, or any time with any number of high school students, you will know their propensity for insensitive and cruel remarks and pack behavior that leaves someone out. YOU, dear poster, have 100 percent bullied someone. Hopefully it was brief, it was some small slight, smirk, exclusion, etc. and not a serious pattern of behavior. But you did it. And your kids did it.

And it's not relativizing anything, it's a reality. If you're a good parent, you note it and you help your child understand right from wrong, and you teach them about decency, respect, honesty, sympathy, empathy, etc. and you put them on the right track... no one is born perfect, and if you, as a parent, have never had to gently support your child in teaching them a better way to treat others, you're not doing it right. I suspect you have and I suspect you know it, but i suspect you're ashamed because you have some unhealthy idea of the way children are supposed to act.

A child making a misstep is normal. A child exhibiting a pattern of cruel behavior is not. Bad parenting turns the former into the latter.

Reality is that some kids are bullies and some aren't. Some kids are bad, in many cases, irredeemably so, and some aren't.

Your kid is one of the nasty ones. Which is why you keep showing on every topic explaining how there is a little bully in everyone.

I've seen my kid treat another child the way they shouldn't and I did what a parent is supposed to do and I corrected the behavior and used it to help them be a better person.

You pretend your kid doesn't hurt people's feelings, but they do and people look at you very differently from how you look at yourself. It would be better to teach your child that it's okay to make mistakes as long as you try to be better than to teach them that they're never wrong, which is a lie and will only lead them to hurt others more as they get older.

please stop. your kid has clearly never been bullied, or you wouldn't be using anodyne terms such as "hurting feelings" or "being unkind". you have no clue what you are talking about, ok?

Not sure what you're trying to accomplish. Bullying is bad, a lot of kids unwittingly do cruel things and their parents can't imagine it. That's part of the larger picture, not sure why you're thrashing so hard against that.

because you are relativizing bullying. for you, bullying is everything ("being unkind" or "saying things that shouldn't be said") and everybody is a bit of a bully. you have repeatedly said, here and elsewhere (i remember you from previous discussions), that my kid, who has been relentlessly bullied for a year by a group of jealous, mean girls to a point we had to change schools (advice by 3 different psychiatrist as absolutely urgent), is also a little bit of a bully. if not today, then tomorrow. just like all of us.

in reality, bullying is rare, and very few kids are bullies. in our case, a lot of kids went along with the bullies, out of conformity, fear for their own status, because they simply didn't care or they didn't know my child well. those kids are not paragons of morality, they will not stand up for bullies etc, but they are not bullies and would, on their own, not instigate 1% of what was done to my child.

I’m sorry your kid was bullied, but casually telling people that things they have experienced are not bullying because you don’t view at as severe as what your child experienced only serves to normalize bullying.

All bullying - the severe kind that happened to your child and the bullying that other children experience that you don’t know much about but declare is not as severe - is wrong. That’s it.

murder is wrong, but also, not saying hello to the neighbor is wrong. do you find that this is a helpful way to approach the problem?

calling every single nonsense among kids bullying draws attention from actual victims of real bullying. it makes bullying more normal, not less normal. it makes it sound like all kids are the same. which they aren't.

extreme bullying needs to get 100% of our attention. only after that type of bullying, which is dangerous for life and mental health, has been eradicated, should we move to issues like being nice, kind to each other etc.

instead, energies are expanded to adult-led activities to make children more kind and other nonsense while real victims are as victimized as ever, even more, because they don't even have a moral high ground 'cause everyone is bullied.

[Anonymous]

I think it is a lot of denial. The meanest kids are often bullied themselves at one point so their parents anchor to them being the victim. And when they witness mean behavior, they think it is good because their kid is standing up for themself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes. But almost every kid bullies at some point—not all are persistent regular bullies, but every kid in elementary school does something callous and cruel, says something hurtful, or gets caught up in the moment and finds themselves laughing and playing along as someone else gets picked on — it's very normal, and a good kid will realize they did something wrong, and will feel bad and try not to ever do it again. True bullies keep it up.

So much bullying can be so subtle, something that only the victim knows how terribly painful it is...

So I'd say, in a lot of cases, no, the parents don't know... but if it's the kind of thing that keeps up, any decent parent will catch on. Some are oblivious, some don't know what to do, some are fine with it, etc.

Nope, there are only very few actual bullies. Most kids are not bullies themselves, but go along, ignore, don't care etc when someone is bullied by a bully. Then there exist kids who are bullied - a small number as well.

Please stop relativizing bullying and bullies. No, not everyone is a bully, in fact, very few kids are. But they who are, are nasty, way worse than most adults.

I've seen my kid treat another child the way they shouldn't and I did what a parent is supposed to do and I corrected the behavior and used it to help them be a better person.

You pretend your kid doesn't hurt people's feelings, but they do and people look at you very differently from how you look at yourself. It would be better to teach your child that it's okay to make mistakes as long as you try to be better than to teach them that they're never wrong, which is a lie and will only lead them to hurt others more as they get older.
Well, the oblivious parent of a bully just showed up.

All kids bully. Not all kids carry out brutal campaigns of persecution physically and emotionally battering helpless kids, but if you've ever spent more than 8 minutes with a classroom of elementary school students or 3 minutes with a classroom of middle school students, or any time with any number of high school students, you will know their propensity for insensitive and cruel remarks and pack behavior that leaves someone out. YOU, dear poster, have 100 percent bullied someone. Hopefully it was brief, it was some small slight, smirk, exclusion, etc. and not a serious pattern of behavior. But you did it. And your kids did it.

And it's not relativizing anything, it's a reality. If you're a good parent, you note it and you help your child understand right from wrong, and you teach them about decency, respect, honesty, sympathy, empathy, etc. and you put them on the right track... no one is born perfect, and if you, as a parent, have never had to gently support your child in teaching them a better way to treat others, you're not doing it right. I suspect you have and I suspect you know it, but i suspect you're ashamed because you have some unhealthy idea of the way children are supposed to act.

A child making a misstep is normal. A child exhibiting a pattern of cruel behavior is not. Bad parenting turns the former into the latter.

Reality is that some kids are bullies and some aren't. Some kids are bad, in many cases, irredeemably so, and some aren't.

Your kid is one of the nasty ones. Which is why you keep showing on every topic explaining how there is a little bully in everyone.

I've seen my kid treat another child the way they shouldn't and I did what a parent is supposed to do and I corrected the behavior and used it to help them be a better person.

You pretend your kid doesn't hurt people's feelings, but they do and people look at you very differently from how you look at yourself. It would be better to teach your child that it's okay to make mistakes as long as you try to be better than to teach them that they're never wrong, which is a lie and will only lead them to hurt others more as they get older.

please stop. your kid has clearly never been bullied, or you wouldn't be using anodyne terms such as "hurting feelings" or "being unkind". you have no clue what you are talking about, ok?

Not sure what you're trying to accomplish. Bullying is bad, a lot of kids unwittingly do cruel things and their parents can't imagine it. That's part of the larger picture, not sure why you're thrashing so hard against that.

because you are relativizing bullying. for you, bullying is everything ("being unkind" or "saying things that shouldn't be said") and everybody is a bit of a bully. you have repeatedly said, here and elsewhere (i remember you from previous discussions), that my kid, who has been relentlessly bullied for a year by a group of jealous, mean girls to a point we had to change schools (advice by 3 different psychiatrist as absolutely urgent), is also a little bit of a bully. if not today, then tomorrow. just like all of us.

in reality, bullying is rare, and very few kids are bullies. in our case, a lot of kids went along with the bullies, out of conformity, fear for their own status, because they simply didn't care or they didn't know my child well. those kids are not paragons of morality, they will not stand up for bullies etc, but they are not bullies and would, on their own, not instigate 1% of what was done to my child.

I’m sorry your kid was bullied, but casually telling people that things they have experienced are not bullying because you don’t view at as severe as what your child experienced only serves to normalize bullying.

All bullying - the severe kind that happened to your child and the bullying that other children experience that you don’t know much about but declare is not as severe - is wrong. That’s it.

murder is wrong, but also, not saying hello to the neighbor is wrong. do you find that this is a helpful way to approach the problem?

calling every single nonsense among kids bullying draws attention from actual victims of real bullying. it makes bullying more normal, not less normal. it makes it sound like all kids are the same. which they aren't.

extreme bullying needs to get 100% of our attention. only after that type of bullying, which is dangerous for life and mental health, has been eradicated, should we move to issues like being nice, kind to each other etc.

instead, energies are expanded to adult-led activities to make children more kind and other nonsense while real victims are as victimized as ever, even more, because they don't even have a moral high ground 'cause everyone is bullied.

This is very binary.

I can be disappointed that my neighbor doesn't say hello to me AND believe murder is wrong.

We shouldn't ignore extreme bullying to make sure no one's feelings are ever hurt, but drawing arbitrary lines about which bullying is severe enough to care about is effed up. And bullying rarely starts from nothing. It's almost always an escalating thing—the bully who is doing awful things to your child started somewhere. I don't think anyone would say that extreme bullying should not be taken seriously, and it sounds like you have some personal experience with serious bullying not being taken seriously, and I'm genuinely sorry to hear that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think bullying is a very real and terrible thing- but must less prevalent than people often say. There are examples on this thread where a bullying label is applied when it shouldn't be.

Another example. My DD has a friend, Larlo, who this past year was in 6th grade. His parents say he is bullied and they are considering Catholic school next year.

Here are some situations he has been in lately:

1. On the lunch line, a cool kid will go toward the front of the line to talk to someone and Larlo will start yelling (you can imagine his voice as a young 6th grader), "Hey!! You're cutting! You can't do that! He's cutting!" And then the kid will respond "Shut up F-slur!" Is it horrible? Yeah. This is a not a good kid who understands you don't ever say that. But-- no one else on the line felt the need to say anything.

2. Larlo is called gay often and maybe he is but is not able to deal with it yet. Fine. But he'll cry if someone asks him if he likes a boy or if he is gay. OK, it is what it is. And then he'll say "I am going to the dance with John." Pauses. "Just as friends!!!" Then if he person he is speaking to so much as makes a face Larlo doesn't like, Larlo gets really mad and upset.

So these kinds of incidents keep happening and the parents call it bullying. Will Catholic school be better?

That is actually bullying.

Catholic Church is outwardly very homophobic but no one will call him the f word and it is actually a very welcoming shelter for gay people. Sometimes in a good way and sometimes in a horrific way.

PP you quoted. I respect what you are saying but I do not agree. A kid that goes out of his way to interact with known mean kids and call them out for borderline infractions has to take some responsibility. He's also engaging people to consider his sexuality and falling apart when they do.

To call that bullying is an insult to kids that are trying their best not to have issues with anyone and are targeted and harassed.

Look, meanings of words do change over the years. Great, you've got one definition. These other PPs responding to what their kid was subjected to, that's their right, even if their kid didn't physically get a beat down as bullying would be characterized in the 80s and 90s. You don't have to be the bully police. I mean, you can try, but we all may march on without you while you yell after us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think bullying is a very real and terrible thing- but must less prevalent than people often say. There are examples on this thread where a bullying label is applied when it shouldn't be.

Another example. My DD has a friend, Larlo, who this past year was in 6th grade. His parents say he is bullied and they are considering Catholic school next year.

Here are some situations he has been in lately:

1. On the lunch line, a cool kid will go toward the front of the line to talk to someone and Larlo will start yelling (you can imagine his voice as a young 6th grader), "Hey!! You're cutting! You can't do that! He's cutting!" And then the kid will respond "Shut up F-slur!" Is it horrible? Yeah. This is a not a good kid who understands you don't ever say that. But-- no one else on the line felt the need to say anything.

2. Larlo is called gay often and maybe he is but is not able to deal with it yet. Fine. But he'll cry if someone asks him if he likes a boy or if he is gay. OK, it is what it is. And then he'll say "I am going to the dance with John." Pauses. "Just as friends!!!" Then if he person he is speaking to so much as makes a face Larlo doesn't like, Larlo gets really mad and upset.

So these kinds of incidents keep happening and the parents call it bullying. Will Catholic school be better?

That is actually bullying.

Catholic Church is outwardly very homophobic but no one will call him the f word and it is actually a very welcoming shelter for gay people. Sometimes in a good way and sometimes in a horrific way.

PP you quoted. I respect what you are saying but I do not agree. A kid that goes out of his way to interact with known mean kids and call them out for borderline infractions has to take some responsibility. He's also engaging people to consider his sexuality and falling apart when they do.

To call that bullying is an insult to kids that are trying their best not to have issues with anyone and are targeted and harassed.

Look, meanings of words do change over the years. Great, you've got one definition. These other PPs responding to what their kid was subjected to, that's their right, even if their kid didn't physically get a beat down as bullying would be characterized in the 80s and 90s. You don't have to be the bully police. I mean, you can try, but we all may march on without you while you yell after us.

My kid didn't actually get his arm broken by the bully, he only came home crying every day for two years because the bully threatened to. Is that severe enough to call it bullying or do we actually need broken bones? And are fractures okay or does it have to be compound?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think bullying is a very real and terrible thing- but must less prevalent than people often say. There are examples on this thread where a bullying label is applied when it shouldn't be.

Another example. My DD has a friend, Larlo, who this past year was in 6th grade. His parents say he is bullied and they are considering Catholic school next year.

Here are some situations he has been in lately:

1. On the lunch line, a cool kid will go toward the front of the line to talk to someone and Larlo will start yelling (you can imagine his voice as a young 6th grader), "Hey!! You're cutting! You can't do that! He's cutting!" And then the kid will respond "Shut up F-slur!" Is it horrible? Yeah. This is a not a good kid who understands you don't ever say that. But-- no one else on the line felt the need to say anything.

2. Larlo is called gay often and maybe he is but is not able to deal with it yet. Fine. But he'll cry if someone asks him if he likes a boy or if he is gay. OK, it is what it is. And then he'll say "I am going to the dance with John." Pauses. "Just as friends!!!" Then if he person he is speaking to so much as makes a face Larlo doesn't like, Larlo gets really mad and upset.

So these kinds of incidents keep happening and the parents call it bullying. Will Catholic school be better?

That is actually bullying.

Catholic Church is outwardly very homophobic but no one will call him the f word and it is actually a very welcoming shelter for gay people. Sometimes in a good way and sometimes in a horrific way.

PP you quoted. I respect what you are saying but I do not agree. A kid that goes out of his way to interact with known mean kids and call them out for borderline infractions has to take some responsibility. He's also engaging people to consider his sexuality and falling apart when they do.

To call that bullying is an insult to kids that are trying their best not to have issues with anyone and are targeted and harassed.

Look, meanings of words do change over the years. Great, you've got one definition. These other PPs responding to what their kid was subjected to, that's their right, even if their kid didn't physically get a beat down as bullying would be characterized in the 80s and 90s. You don't have to be the bully police. I mean, you can try, but we all may march on without you while you yell after us.

My kid didn't actually get his arm broken by the bully, he only came home crying every day for two years because the bully threatened to. Is that severe enough to call it bullying or do we actually need broken bones? And are fractures okay or does it have to be compound?

You figure that out and do the best you can same as the other parents are doing. You don't need to crowd source it with anyone.