Montgomery for All Missing Middle presentation

[Anonymous]

This isn’t rocket science. It’s false to assume that because most people think that upzoning is a dumb solution that people that are against it don’t support rational ideas. Don’t force everyone to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

I think the zoning changes are appropriate and rational.

I'm guessing that most of the commercial space you're thinking of is already zoned CR. Not everyone wants to live in a big apartment building on a main road. There's nothing inappropriate or irrational about smaller multiplexes mixed in among uniplexes. More choices in types of housing is better than fewer choices in types of housing.

The main issue I have with this idea is that it makes it difficult if not impossible to plan for infrastructure or anticipate growth. If they legalize sixplexes (everywhere) like Arlington, we can end up in a situation where student enrollment doubles in some areas over a very short period of time. It makes more sense to upzone a specific area so we can plan for growth in an economically efficient way. This will be costly for taxpayers and taxes are already too high in Montgomery County.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don’t mind more density. I do mind developers and groups like Montgomery 4 All who pretend that their recommendations will result in affordable housing. It’s pretty sad to see the super rich exploiting the hopes of people who are struggling just so they can eke out another half a percentage point of profit. Just be honest that you’re only building for rich people and that your only goal is to maximize profit. After that, we can have an honest discussion about how much income-limited housing should be included in each project, what taxpayer subsidies developers should get, and whether developers or other taxpayers should shoulder the burden of that new 6-lane road to their development or that new school that’s needed.

They will certainly result in housing that is more affordable. It won't result in housing that the poorest people can afford, but the county has separate programs for that.

As for who shoulder the burden of that new 6-lane road to the development? Nobody. There shouldn't be a new 6-lane road.

They haven’t so far, at least in Montgomery County. Your track record of results is really poor.

They haven't so far, at least in Montgomery County, from doing what exactly? And for how long?

What timeframe do you want? Ever since the county shifted from sprawl to smart growth housing prices have skyrocketed and it only got worse when the county started taking up the Hans Riemer/Casey Anderson approach. Our growth keeps getting slower and slower.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Welcome to the club. Long story short if you bought a home in a single family home zoned neighborhood, you might end next to a new apartment building with no parking. If you are against it you will be called racist. Good luck!
Regards,
Arlington resident that wants a duplex next door, not a six plex on the 5000 sqft lot with no parking

Could neighborhood associations form HOAs that protect the ability to develop multifamily housing? If so, that will definitely happen in many of the wealthier Bethesda/CC neighborhoods

I would pay a lot of money in annual HOA dues to accomplish this.

HOAs do not have authority over zoning.

So if zoning laws changed in Potomac, a homeowner in Avenel could build a duplex? Their HOA would allow this?

Trying to learn

Typically HOA have restrictive covenants attached to the properties in the neighborhood that prevent people from doing this. You would need to look up the deed and title information for you house to know what is allowed. People that live in a neighborhood that does not have these limitations should look into establishing deed restrictions now with your neighbors, if you want to prevent this from occurring in your local area.

Why would you voluntarily give up your right to do what you want with your property?

Because if you want to sell a SFH, you would benefit financially from being surrounded by SFHs rather than 4-5 story condo buildings. A SFH is a n-hood of SFHs is more desirable. Now, of course, a buyer might buy to build a condo building rather than live in the SFH. The end result is that those who want SFHs will move, taking their tax dollars with them.

No, if you want to sell your property, you benefit financially from there being a wide range of potential uses than there being a very narrow range of potential uses.

Also, I am 100% certain that a detached single-unit house, next to a duplex, is still a detached single-unit house. If you're living in a detached single-unit house, and someone builds a duplex next door, your house will still be a detached single-unit house. A duplex next door will not infect your house with duplexitis.

Because I want to live in an SFH area, and I am not interested in being surrounded by duplexes. Then, I will live elsewhere. And DMV, including NoVa and even DC, has plenty of options. I note there is miles of underutilized commercial space along the Pike that could be apartments, condos, townhouses, etc. A substantial portion of that space will never be office buildings or retail space.

Almost all of this is already zoned for mixed-use (commercial/residential).

Also, if you don't live on a giant road like Rockville Pike, and you wouldn't want to live on a giant road like Rockville Pike, then you have no moral authority to insist that the only appropriate place for multi-unit housing is on giant roads like Rockville Pike.

I have lived most of my adult life on 355 (where it’s called Wisconsin Avenue). Do I have enough moral authority for you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Welcome to the club. Long story short if you bought a home in a single family home zoned neighborhood, you might end next to a new apartment building with no parking. If you are against it you will be called racist. Good luck!
Regards,
Arlington resident that wants a duplex next door, not a six plex on the 5000 sqft lot with no parking

Could neighborhood associations form HOAs that protect the ability to develop multifamily housing? If so, that will definitely happen in many of the wealthier Bethesda/CC neighborhoods

I would pay a lot of money in annual HOA dues to accomplish this.

HOAs do not have authority over zoning.

So if zoning laws changed in Potomac, a homeowner in Avenel could build a duplex? Their HOA would allow this?

Trying to learn

Typically HOA have restrictive covenants attached to the properties in the neighborhood that prevent people from doing this. You would need to look up the deed and title information for you house to know what is allowed. People that live in a neighborhood that does not have these limitations should look into establishing deed restrictions now with your neighbors, if you want to prevent this from occurring in your local area.

Why would you voluntarily give up your right to do what you want with your property?

Because if you want to sell a SFH, you would benefit financially from being surrounded by SFHs rather than 4-5 story condo buildings. A SFH is a n-hood of SFHs is more desirable. Now, of course, a buyer might buy to build a condo building rather than live in the SFH. The end result is that those who want SFHs will move, taking their tax dollars with them.

No, if you want to sell your property, you benefit financially from there being a wide range of potential uses than there being a very narrow range of potential uses.

Also, I am 100% certain that a detached single-unit house, next to a duplex, is still a detached single-unit house. If you're living in a detached single-unit house, and someone builds a duplex next door, your house will still be a detached single-unit house. A duplex next door will not infect your house with duplexitis.

Because I want to live in an SFH area, and I am not interested in being surrounded by duplexes. Then, I will live elsewhere. And DMV, including NoVa and even DC, has plenty of options. I note there is miles of underutilized commercial space along the Pike that could be apartments, condos, townhouses, etc. A substantial portion of that space will never be office buildings or retail space.

Almost all of this is already zoned for mixed-use (commercial/residential).

Also, if you don't live on a giant road like Rockville Pike, and you wouldn't want to live on a giant road like Rockville Pike, then you have no moral authority to insist that the only appropriate place for multi-unit housing is on giant roads like Rockville Pike.

I have lived most of my adult life on 355 (where it’s called Wisconsin Avenue). Do I have enough moral authority for you?

Rockville Pike isn’t wealthy enough for the council. Lower income people should only live in wealthier areas..duh!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The main issue I have with this idea is that it makes it difficult if not impossible to plan for infrastructure or anticipate growth. If they legalize sixplexes (everywhere) like Arlington, we can end up in a situation where student enrollment doubles in some areas over a very short period of time. It makes more sense to upzone a specific area so we can plan for growth in an economically efficient way. This will be costly for taxpayers and taxes are already too high in Montgomery County.

Here you're calling for central planning, instead of letting the market decide. Elsewhere on this thread, other posters are saying that changing the zoning code to allow multi-unit housing is communism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t mind more density. I do mind developers and groups like Montgomery 4 All who pretend that their recommendations will result in affordable housing. It’s pretty sad to see the super rich exploiting the hopes of people who are struggling just so they can eke out another half a percentage point of profit. Just be honest that you’re only building for rich people and that your only goal is to maximize profit. After that, we can have an honest discussion about how much income-limited housing should be included in each project, what taxpayer subsidies developers should get, and whether developers or other taxpayers should shoulder the burden of that new 6-lane road to their development or that new school that’s needed.

They will certainly result in housing that is more affordable. It won't result in housing that the poorest people can afford, but the county has separate programs for that.

As for who shoulder the burden of that new 6-lane road to the development? Nobody. There shouldn't be a new 6-lane road.

Yes everybody, in this fantasy everyone rides the bus! Or rides a bike! No need for parking requirements or new infrastructure!

I swear, I can’t tell if the GGW crowd is delusional or just deceptive.

And doesn’t get knifed or urinated upon?

[Anonymous]

Utopia! I can ride a bus again without fearing for my life and limb due to the glorious DMC bus-riding citizens?

[Anonymous]

We are considering buying a sfh in Bethesda, and hoping to dwell in a neighborhood of such. What should I think about in terms of the "impact" of this plan?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Welcome to the club. Long story short if you bought a home in a single family home zoned neighborhood, you might end next to a new apartment building with no parking. If you are against it you will be called racist. Good luck!
Regards,
Arlington resident that wants a duplex next door, not a six plex on the 5000 sqft lot with no parking

Could neighborhood associations form HOAs that protect the ability to develop multifamily housing? If so, that will definitely happen in many of the wealthier Bethesda/CC neighborhoods

I would pay a lot of money in annual HOA dues to accomplish this.

HOAs do not have authority over zoning.

So if zoning laws changed in Potomac, a homeowner in Avenel could build a duplex? Their HOA would allow this?

But single family neighborhoods will be destroyed if any house can be torn down and replaced with a 12-story apartment building.

Trying to learn

Typically HOA have restrictive covenants attached to the properties in the neighborhood that prevent people from doing this. You would need to look up the deed and title information for you house to know what is allowed. People that live in a neighborhood that does not have these limitations should look into establishing deed restrictions now with your neighbors, if you want to prevent this from occurring in your local area.

Why would you voluntarily give up your right to do what you want with your property?

Because if you want to sell a SFH, you would benefit financially from being surrounded by SFHs rather than 4-5 story condo buildings. A SFH is a n-hood of SFHs is more desirable. Now, of course, a buyer might buy to build a condo building rather than live in the SFH. The end result is that those who want SFHs will move, taking their tax dollars with them.

No, if you want to sell your property, you benefit financially from there being a wide range of potential uses than there being a very narrow range of potential uses.

Also, I am 100% certain that a detached single-unit house, next to a duplex, is still a detached single-unit house. If you're living in a detached single-unit house, and someone builds a duplex next door, your house will still be a detached single-unit house. A duplex next door will not infect your house with duplexitis.

Because I want to live in an SFH area, and I am not interested in being surrounded by duplexes. Then, I will live elsewhere. And DMV, including NoVa and even DC, has plenty of options. I note there is miles of underutilized commercial space along the Pike that could be apartments, condos, townhouses, etc. A substantial portion of that space will never be office buildings or retail space.

That would make too much sense and it isn’t punitive enough…they hate the IDEA of SFH zoning.

"They" who?

Nobody is proposing to eradicate single family houses. Single family houses will still be allowed. It's just that other housing types will ALSO be allowed. If you feel punished by this idea, that's on you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are considering buying a sfh in Bethesda, and hoping to dwell in a neighborhood of such. What should I think about in terms of the "impact" of this plan?

If you're worried about having a duplex in your neighborhood, make sure to move to one of the remoter parts of Bethesda, far from anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are considering buying a sfh in Bethesda, and hoping to dwell in a neighborhood of such. What should I think about in terms of the "impact" of this plan?

Buy elsewhere. MoCo continually targets the perceived wealthy areas, including Bethesda. MoCo's problems will be solved by targeting these areas, which of course will no longer be wealthy due both to the new residents and to the former residents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are considering buying a sfh in Bethesda, and hoping to dwell in a neighborhood of such. What should I think about in terms of the "impact" of this plan?

Buy elsewhere. MoCo continually targets the perceived wealthy areas, including Bethesda. MoCo's problems will be solved by targeting these areas, which of course will no longer be wealthy due both to the new residents and to the former residents.

But that’s equity!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are considering buying a sfh in Bethesda, and hoping to dwell in a neighborhood of such. What should I think about in terms of the "impact" of this plan?

If you're worried about having a duplex in your neighborhood, make sure to move to one of the remoter parts of Bethesda, far from anything.

What parts of Bethesda do you believe would be safe if you actually want to maintain your nice SFH neighborhood

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Every time I go by Chevy Chase Country Club and Columbia(?) Country Club while riding the X1 bus up Connecticut Ave, I wonder how many people could have homes if those massive properties had affordable high rise buildings on them instead of golf courses.

It would literally solve the housing problems of everyone in the DC area. It’s heartbreaking.

But, please do consider needs of the Character of the Neighborhood. It is more important than the needs of a few thousand rif-rafs that would be brought in by "affordable housing" that no one wants. We want to keep our affluent area affluent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are considering buying a sfh in Bethesda, and hoping to dwell in a neighborhood of such. What should I think about in terms of the "impact" of this plan?

If you're worried about having a duplex in your neighborhood, make sure to move to one of the remoter parts of Bethesda, far from anything.

What parts of Bethesda do you believe would be safe if you actually want to maintain your nice SFH neighborhood

I don't mind a duplex, but I would be dismayed by a six plex or if an apartment building went up. Where can I dig into the details of this? Is there any kind of visual aid (map) to show the areas affected by this? What is the path of resistance, or is this a done deal?

We are putting an offer soon. Trying to escape the morons running DC - didn't realize Bethesda and CC had the same density bros/equity bros in charge.