Montgomery for All Missing Middle presentation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Welcome to the club. Long story short if you bought a home in a single family home zoned neighborhood, you might end next to a new apartment building with no parking. If you are against it you will be called racist. Good luck!
Regards,
Arlington resident that wants a duplex next door, not a six plex on the 5000 sqft lot with no parking

Yes. If you don't want that to happen, you need to buy the property next door. If it's not your property, you don't make the decisions.

Did you pull the deed and title information for your neighbors property? If you are lucky, you might be able to sue your neighbor for breach of contract for violating a protective covenant. There has already been at least one instance where I'm aware of in Arlington where neighbors found a very old restriction (from 80+ years ago) that forced a developer to cancel their plans.

When people say covenanted they generally mean in their favor ie the neighbors are too. Lone house with a covenant would be an anomaly

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Welcome to the club. Long story short if you bought a home in a single family home zoned neighborhood, you might end next to a new apartment building with no parking. If you are against it you will be called racist. Good luck!
Regards,
Arlington resident that wants a duplex next door, not a six plex on the 5000 sqft lot with no parking

Could neighborhood associations form HOAs that protect the ability to develop multifamily housing? If so, that will definitely happen in many of the wealthier Bethesda/CC neighborhoods

I would pay a lot of money in annual HOA dues to accomplish this.

HOAs do not have authority over zoning.

So if zoning laws changed in Potomac, a homeowner in Avenel could build a duplex? Their HOA would allow this?

Trying to learn

Typically HOA have restrictive covenants attached to the properties in the neighborhood that prevent people from doing this. You would need to look up the deed and title information for you house to know what is allowed. People that live in a neighborhood that does not have these limitations should look into establishing deed restrictions now with your neighbors, if you want to prevent this from occurring in your local area.

Why would you voluntarily give up your right to do what you want with your property?

Because if you want to sell a SFH, you would benefit financially from being surrounded by SFHs rather than 4-5 story condo buildings. A SFH is a n-hood of SFHs is more desirable. Now, of course, a buyer might buy to build a condo building rather than live in the SFH. The end result is that those who want SFHs will move, taking their tax dollars with them.

No, if you want to sell your property, you benefit financially from there being a wide range of potential uses than there being a very narrow range of potential uses.

Also, I am 100% certain that a detached single-unit house, next to a duplex, is still a detached single-unit house. If you're living in a detached single-unit house, and someone builds a duplex next door, your house will still be a detached single-unit house. A duplex next door will not infect your house with duplexitis.

Because I want to live in an SFH area, and I am not interested in being surrounded by duplexes. Then, I will live elsewhere. And DMV, including NoVa and even DC, has plenty of options. I note there is miles of underutilized commercial space along the Pike that could be apartments, condos, townhouses, etc. A substantial portion of that space will never be office buildings or retail space.

Ok. So do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t mind more density. I do mind developers and groups like Montgomery 4 All who pretend that their recommendations will result in affordable housing. It’s pretty sad to see the super rich exploiting the hopes of people who are struggling just so they can eke out another half a percentage point of profit. Just be honest that you’re only building for rich people and that your only goal is to maximize profit. After that, we can have an honest discussion about how much income-limited housing should be included in each project, what taxpayer subsidies developers should get, and whether developers or other taxpayers should shoulder the burden of that new 6-lane road to their development or that new school that’s needed.

They will certainly result in housing that is more affordable. It won't result in housing that the poorest people can afford, but the county has separate programs for that.

As for who shoulder the burden of that new 6-lane road to the development? Nobody. There shouldn't be a new 6-lane road.

They haven’t so far, at least in Montgomery County. Your track record of results is really poor.

They haven't so far, at least in Montgomery County, from doing what exactly? And for how long?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Welcome to the club. Long story short if you bought a home in a single family home zoned neighborhood, you might end next to a new apartment building with no parking. If you are against it you will be called racist. Good luck!
Regards,
Arlington resident that wants a duplex next door, not a six plex on the 5000 sqft lot with no parking

Could neighborhood associations form HOAs that protect the ability to develop multifamily housing? If so, that will definitely happen in many of the wealthier Bethesda/CC neighborhoods

I would pay a lot of money in annual HOA dues to accomplish this.

HOAs do not have authority over zoning.

So if zoning laws changed in Potomac, a homeowner in Avenel could build a duplex? Their HOA would allow this?

Trying to learn

Typically HOA have restrictive covenants attached to the properties in the neighborhood that prevent people from doing this. You would need to look up the deed and title information for you house to know what is allowed. People that live in a neighborhood that does not have these limitations should look into establishing deed restrictions now with your neighbors, if you want to prevent this from occurring in your local area.

Why would you voluntarily give up your right to do what you want with your property?

Because if you want to sell a SFH, you would benefit financially from being surrounded by SFHs rather than 4-5 story condo buildings. A SFH is a n-hood of SFHs is more desirable. Now, of course, a buyer might buy to build a condo building rather than live in the SFH. The end result is that those who want SFHs will move, taking their tax dollars with them.

No, if you want to sell your property, you benefit financially from there being a wide range of potential uses than there being a very narrow range of potential uses.

Also, I am 100% certain that a detached single-unit house, next to a duplex, is still a detached single-unit house. If you're living in a detached single-unit house, and someone builds a duplex next door, your house will still be a detached single-unit house. A duplex next door will not infect your house with duplexitis.

Because I want to live in an SFH area, and I am not interested in being surrounded by duplexes. Then, I will live elsewhere. And DMV, including NoVa and even DC, has plenty of options. I note there is miles of underutilized commercial space along the Pike that could be apartments, condos, townhouses, etc. A substantial portion of that space will never be office buildings or retail space.

That would make too much sense and it isn’t punitive enough…they hate the IDEA of SFH zoning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Welcome to the club. Long story short if you bought a home in a single family home zoned neighborhood, you might end next to a new apartment building with no parking. If you are against it you will be called racist. Good luck!
Regards,
Arlington resident that wants a duplex next door, not a six plex on the 5000 sqft lot with no parking

Could neighborhood associations form HOAs that protect the ability to develop multifamily housing? If so, that will definitely happen in many of the wealthier Bethesda/CC neighborhoods

I would pay a lot of money in annual HOA dues to accomplish this.

HOAs do not have authority over zoning.

So if zoning laws changed in Potomac, a homeowner in Avenel could build a duplex? Their HOA would allow this?

Trying to learn

Typically HOA have restrictive covenants attached to the properties in the neighborhood that prevent people from doing this. You would need to look up the deed and title information for you house to know what is allowed. People that live in a neighborhood that does not have these limitations should look into establishing deed restrictions now with your neighbors, if you want to prevent this from occurring in your local area.

Why would you voluntarily give up your right to do what you want with your property?

Because if you want to sell a SFH, you would benefit financially from being surrounded by SFHs rather than 4-5 story condo buildings. A SFH is a n-hood of SFHs is more desirable. Now, of course, a buyer might buy to build a condo building rather than live in the SFH. The end result is that those who want SFHs will move, taking their tax dollars with them.

No, if you want to sell your property, you benefit financially from there being a wide range of potential uses than there being a very narrow range of potential uses.

Also, I am 100% certain that a detached single-unit house, next to a duplex, is still a detached single-unit house. If you're living in a detached single-unit house, and someone builds a duplex next door, your house will still be a detached single-unit house. A duplex next door will not infect your house with duplexitis.

Because I want to live in an SFH area, and I am not interested in being surrounded by duplexes. Then, I will live elsewhere. And DMV, including NoVa and even DC, has plenty of options. I note there is miles of underutilized commercial space along the Pike that could be apartments, condos, townhouses, etc. A substantial portion of that space will never be office buildings or retail space.

Almost all of this is already zoned for mixed-use (commercial/residential).

Also, if you don't live on a giant road like Rockville Pike, and you wouldn't want to live on a giant road like Rockville Pike, then you have no moral authority to insist that the only appropriate place for multi-unit housing is on giant roads like Rockville Pike.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t mind more density. I do mind developers and groups like Montgomery 4 All who pretend that their recommendations will result in affordable housing. It’s pretty sad to see the super rich exploiting the hopes of people who are struggling just so they can eke out another half a percentage point of profit. Just be honest that you’re only building for rich people and that your only goal is to maximize profit. After that, we can have an honest discussion about how much income-limited housing should be included in each project, what taxpayer subsidies developers should get, and whether developers or other taxpayers should shoulder the burden of that new 6-lane road to their development or that new school that’s needed.

They will certainly result in housing that is more affordable. It won't result in housing that the poorest people can afford, but the county has separate programs for that.

As for who shoulder the burden of that new 6-lane road to the development? Nobody. There shouldn't be a new 6-lane road.

Yes everybody, in this fantasy everyone rides the bus! Or rides a bike! No need for parking requirements or new infrastructure!

I swear, I can’t tell if the GGW crowd is delusional or just deceptive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Welcome to the club. Long story short if you bought a home in a single family home zoned neighborhood, you might end next to a new apartment building with no parking. If you are against it you will be called racist. Good luck!
Regards,
Arlington resident that wants a duplex next door, not a six plex on the 5000 sqft lot with no parking

Could neighborhood associations form HOAs that protect the ability to develop multifamily housing? If so, that will definitely happen in many of the wealthier Bethesda/CC neighborhoods

I would pay a lot of money in annual HOA dues to accomplish this.

HOAs do not have authority over zoning.

So if zoning laws changed in Potomac, a homeowner in Avenel could build a duplex? Their HOA would allow this?

Trying to learn

Typically HOA have restrictive covenants attached to the properties in the neighborhood that prevent people from doing this. You would need to look up the deed and title information for you house to know what is allowed. People that live in a neighborhood that does not have these limitations should look into establishing deed restrictions now with your neighbors, if you want to prevent this from occurring in your local area.

Why would you voluntarily give up your right to do what you want with your property?

Because if you want to sell a SFH, you would benefit financially from being surrounded by SFHs rather than 4-5 story condo buildings. A SFH is a n-hood of SFHs is more desirable. Now, of course, a buyer might buy to build a condo building rather than live in the SFH. The end result is that those who want SFHs will move, taking their tax dollars with them.

No, if you want to sell your property, you benefit financially from there being a wide range of potential uses than there being a very narrow range of potential uses.

Also, I am 100% certain that a detached single-unit house, next to a duplex, is still a detached single-unit house. If you're living in a detached single-unit house, and someone builds a duplex next door, your house will still be a detached single-unit house. A duplex next door will not infect your house with duplexitis.

Because I want to live in an SFH area, and I am not interested in being surrounded by duplexes. Then, I will live elsewhere. And DMV, including NoVa and even DC, has plenty of options. I note there is miles of underutilized commercial space along the Pike that could be apartments, condos, townhouses, etc. A substantial portion of that space will never be office buildings or retail space.

That would make too much sense and it isn’t punitive enough…they hate the IDEA of SFH zoning.

"They" who?

Nobody is proposing to eradicate single family houses. Single family houses will still be allowed. It's just that other housing types will ALSO be allowed. If you feel punished by this idea, that's on you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t mind more density. I do mind developers and groups like Montgomery 4 All who pretend that their recommendations will result in affordable housing. It’s pretty sad to see the super rich exploiting the hopes of people who are struggling just so they can eke out another half a percentage point of profit. Just be honest that you’re only building for rich people and that your only goal is to maximize profit. After that, we can have an honest discussion about how much income-limited housing should be included in each project, what taxpayer subsidies developers should get, and whether developers or other taxpayers should shoulder the burden of that new 6-lane road to their development or that new school that’s needed.

They will certainly result in housing that is more affordable. It won't result in housing that the poorest people can afford, but the county has separate programs for that.

As for who shoulder the burden of that new 6-lane road to the development? Nobody. There shouldn't be a new 6-lane road.

Yes everybody, in this fantasy everyone rides the bus! Or rides a bike! No need for parking requirements or new infrastructure!

I swear, I can’t tell if the GGW crowd is delusional or just deceptive.

When you're against more housing, more transportation that isn't cars, and more roads for transportation that is cars - what are you for?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Welcome to the club. Long story short if you bought a home in a single family home zoned neighborhood, you might end next to a new apartment building with no parking. If you are against it you will be called racist. Good luck!
Regards,
Arlington resident that wants a duplex next door, not a six plex on the 5000 sqft lot with no parking

Yes. If you don't want that to happen, you need to buy the property next door. If it's not your property, you don't make the decisions.

Did you pull the deed and title information for your neighbors property? If you are lucky, you might be able to sue your neighbor for breach of contract for violating a protective covenant. There has already been at least one instance where I'm aware of in Arlington where neighbors found a very old restriction (from 80+ years ago) that forced a developer to cancel their plans.

When people say covenanted they generally mean in their favor ie the neighbors are too. Lone house with a covenant would be an anomaly

Yes that is true. They should be able revoke it (in most circumstances) if it only applied to their house anyway. However, many people in older neighborhoods may not be aware of the restrictions so it doesn't hurt to check. Title searches are not always conducted for entire life of the property. If your neighborhood has been around for 50+ years it is possible that developers missed it or were hoping no one else noticed until after they complete the plex building

[Anonymous]

I think after what happened in Arlington people would be remiss not to check. It works!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t mind more density. I do mind developers and groups like Montgomery 4 All who pretend that their recommendations will result in affordable housing. It’s pretty sad to see the super rich exploiting the hopes of people who are struggling just so they can eke out another half a percentage point of profit. Just be honest that you’re only building for rich people and that your only goal is to maximize profit. After that, we can have an honest discussion about how much income-limited housing should be included in each project, what taxpayer subsidies developers should get, and whether developers or other taxpayers should shoulder the burden of that new 6-lane road to their development or that new school that’s needed.

They will certainly result in housing that is more affordable. It won't result in housing that the poorest people can afford, but the county has separate programs for that.

As for who shoulder the burden of that new 6-lane road to the development? Nobody. There shouldn't be a new 6-lane road.

Yes everybody, in this fantasy everyone rides the bus! Or rides a bike! No need for parking requirements or new infrastructure!

I swear, I can’t tell if the GGW crowd is delusional or just deceptive.

When you're against more housing, more transportation that isn't cars, and more roads for transportation that is cars - what are you for?

Building housing density in appropriately zoned areas? Building schools to support it? Converting unused commercial spaces to mixed use spaces? This is all low hanging fruit.

This isn’t rocket science. It’s false to assume that because most people think that upzoning is a dumb solution that people that are against it don’t support rational ideas. Don’t force everyone to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Welcome to the club. Long story short if you bought a home in a single family home zoned neighborhood, you might end next to a new apartment building with no parking. If you are against it you will be called racist. Good luck!
Regards,
Arlington resident that wants a duplex next door, not a six plex on the 5000 sqft lot with no parking

Could neighborhood associations form HOAs that protect the ability to develop multifamily housing? If so, that will definitely happen in many of the wealthier Bethesda/CC neighborhoods

I would pay a lot of money in annual HOA dues to accomplish this.

HOAs do not have authority over zoning.

So if zoning laws changed in Potomac, a homeowner in Avenel could build a duplex? Their HOA would allow this?

Trying to learn

Typically HOA have restrictive covenants attached to the properties in the neighborhood that prevent people from doing this. You would need to look up the deed and title information for you house to know what is allowed. People that live in a neighborhood that does not have these limitations should look into establishing deed restrictions now with your neighbors, if you want to prevent this from occurring in your local area.

Why would you voluntarily give up your right to do what you want with your property?

Because if you want to sell a SFH, you would benefit financially from being surrounded by SFHs rather than 4-5 story condo buildings. A SFH is a n-hood of SFHs is more desirable. Now, of course, a buyer might buy to build a condo building rather than live in the SFH. The end result is that those who want SFHs will move, taking their tax dollars with them.

No, if you want to sell your property, you benefit financially from there being a wide range of potential uses than there being a very narrow range of potential uses.

Also, I am 100% certain that a detached single-unit house, next to a duplex, is still a detached single-unit house. If you're living in a detached single-unit house, and someone builds a duplex next door, your house will still be a detached single-unit house. A duplex next door will not infect your house with duplexitis.

Because I want to live in an SFH area, and I am not interested in being surrounded by duplexes. Then, I will live elsewhere. And DMV, including NoVa and even DC, has plenty of options. I note there is miles of underutilized commercial space along the Pike that could be apartments, condos, townhouses, etc. A substantial portion of that space will never be office buildings or retail space.

Almost all of this is already zoned for mixed-use (commercial/residential).

Also, if you don't live on a giant road like Rockville Pike, and you wouldn't want to live on a giant road like Rockville Pike, then you have no moral authority to insist that the only appropriate place for multi-unit housing is on giant roads like Rockville Pike.

There is plenty of space off of the Pike (2-4 block equivalents) that could handle multi unit housing. Certainly question what moral authority you have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Welcome to the club. Long story short if you bought a home in a single family home zoned neighborhood, you might end next to a new apartment building with no parking. If you are against it you will be called racist. Good luck!
Regards,
Arlington resident that wants a duplex next door, not a six plex on the 5000 sqft lot with no parking

Could neighborhood associations form HOAs that protect the ability to develop multifamily housing? If so, that will definitely happen in many of the wealthier Bethesda/CC neighborhoods

I would pay a lot of money in annual HOA dues to accomplish this.

HOAs do not have authority over zoning.

So if zoning laws changed in Potomac, a homeowner in Avenel could build a duplex? Their HOA would allow this?

Trying to learn

Typically HOA have restrictive covenants attached to the properties in the neighborhood that prevent people from doing this. You would need to look up the deed and title information for you house to know what is allowed. People that live in a neighborhood that does not have these limitations should look into establishing deed restrictions now with your neighbors, if you want to prevent this from occurring in your local area.

Why would you voluntarily give up your right to do what you want with your property?

Because if you want to sell a SFH, you would benefit financially from being surrounded by SFHs rather than 4-5 story condo buildings. A SFH is a n-hood of SFHs is more desirable. Now, of course, a buyer might buy to build a condo building rather than live in the SFH. The end result is that those who want SFHs will move, taking their tax dollars with them.

No, if you want to sell your property, you benefit financially from there being a wide range of potential uses than there being a very narrow range of potential uses.

Also, I am 100% certain that a detached single-unit house, next to a duplex, is still a detached single-unit house. If you're living in a detached single-unit house, and someone builds a duplex next door, your house will still be a detached single-unit house. A duplex next door will not infect your house with duplexitis.

Because I want to live in an SFH area, and I am not interested in being surrounded by duplexes. Then, I will live elsewhere. And DMV, including NoVa and even DC, has plenty of options. I note there is miles of underutilized commercial space along the Pike that could be apartments, condos, townhouses, etc. A substantial portion of that space will never be office buildings or retail space.

Almost all of this is already zoned for mixed-use (commercial/residential).

Also, if you don't live on a giant road like Rockville Pike, and you wouldn't want to live on a giant road like Rockville Pike, then you have no moral authority to insist that the only appropriate place for multi-unit housing is on giant roads like Rockville Pike.

There is plenty of space off of the Pike (2-4 block equivalents) that could handle multi unit housing. Certainly question what moral authority you have.

Those are SFH neighborhoods.

[Anonymous]

Don’t care about moral authority - I got private covenants and lawyers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t mind more density. I do mind developers and groups like Montgomery 4 All who pretend that their recommendations will result in affordable housing. It’s pretty sad to see the super rich exploiting the hopes of people who are struggling just so they can eke out another half a percentage point of profit. Just be honest that you’re only building for rich people and that your only goal is to maximize profit. After that, we can have an honest discussion about how much income-limited housing should be included in each project, what taxpayer subsidies developers should get, and whether developers or other taxpayers should shoulder the burden of that new 6-lane road to their development or that new school that’s needed.

They will certainly result in housing that is more affordable. It won't result in housing that the poorest people can afford, but the county has separate programs for that.

As for who shoulder the burden of that new 6-lane road to the development? Nobody. There shouldn't be a new 6-lane road.

Yes everybody, in this fantasy everyone rides the bus! Or rides a bike! No need for parking requirements or new infrastructure!

I swear, I can’t tell if the GGW crowd is delusional or just deceptive.

When you're against more housing, more transportation that isn't cars, and more roads for transportation that is cars - what are you for?

Building housing density in appropriately zoned areas? Building schools to support it? Converting unused commercial spaces to mixed use spaces? This is all low hanging fruit.

This isn’t rocket science. It’s false to assume that because most people think that upzoning is a dumb solution that people that are against it don’t support rational ideas. Don’t force everyone to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

I think the zoning changes are appropriate and rational.

I'm guessing that most of the commercial space you're thinking of is already zoned CR. Not everyone wants to live in a big apartment building on a main road. There's nothing inappropriate or irrational about smaller multiplexes mixed in among uniplexes. More choices in types of housing is better than fewer choices in types of housing.