Montgomery for All Missing Middle presentation

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why why density everywhere is a goal? People are fleeing this region! Population is not increasing.

I'm sorry, but you are factually wrong. The population of the county has increased and is projected to continue increasing. Here is just two sources:

https://montgomeryplanning.org/blog-design/2023/07/steady-growth-projected-for-montgomery-county-over-the-next-30-years/
https://usafacts.org/data/topics/people-society/population-and-demographics/our-changing-population/state/maryland/county/montgomery-county/#:~:text=Source%3A-,How%20has%20Montgomery%20County's%20population%20changed%20over%20the%20years%3F,when%20the%20population%20dropped%200.5%25.

Now, you may be referring to a few anecdotes of people in your own socioeconomic class that may have moved. If that is the case, you may consider how you define "people."

On a per capita basis the county is getting poorer and will continue to do so. It seems to be one of the county’s goals.

Is that more accurate?

No, it is not.

Per capita income is going up.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MHIMD24031A052NCEN
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PCPI24031

In absolute terms? Yes, so has the price of eggs. In absolute terms everything has gone up. In real terms? Not so much.

Inflation adjusted median household income is declining. So yes the county is getting poorer. In 2008 inflation adjusted HHI was $127,700 and in 2022 it was $118,020.

And Fairfax is blowing away Montgomery County.

https://www.neilsberg.com/insights/fairfax-county-va-median-household-income/

The median household income in Fairfax went up $2,578 in the ten years of your link. And it DECREASED in 2021.
In contrast, the median household income in MoCo went up $854 in those same ten years, with an INCREASE in 2021.

Not sure how you define "blowing away."

It was 3x better than Moco..

So an extra $100 a month? Big whoop.

Now net worth I can definitely imagine a difference with as home values have definitely appreciated more in Fairfax Co over MoCo. But that can change over time. MoCo prices could go higher as a percentage.

The reason why home prices have increased more in Fairfax is because Fairfax is attracting more upper income taxpayers. Very simple. More people who can pay. Absent a change in political attitudes, that will not change in MoCo.

This answer makes the distinction very clear. We could have policy that is geared on making MoCo an enclave for the upper class. Or we could have policy that makes MoCo an affordable and accessible place for a range of classes.

Voters have elected officials who support the latter.

Could we settle on at least making it friendly to the middle class instead of actively running them off?

https://montgomeryplanning.org/blog-design/2024/03/repositioning-montgomery-county-for-prosperity-part-2-montgomery-countys-income-shifts-in-regional-and-national-contexts/?fbclid=IwAR15wG53m4cs7Q4FU1QSxJx5wp3RmeKsmfAr2JGfccNUKfP5Qj8coZcMnGs_aem_AVuvHLLDYuekxXbd-A_f-JDn--9X6AX-MJoCG_TINpOpsqmgNOYBgha0EOydlO3Vx5E

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why why density everywhere is a goal? People are fleeing this region! Population is not increasing.

I'm sorry, but you are factually wrong. The population of the county has increased and is projected to continue increasing. Here is just two sources:

https://montgomeryplanning.org/blog-design/2023/07/steady-growth-projected-for-montgomery-county-over-the-next-30-years/
https://usafacts.org/data/topics/people-society/population-and-demographics/our-changing-population/state/maryland/county/montgomery-county/#:~:text=Source%3A-,How%20has%20Montgomery%20County's%20population%20changed%20over%20the%20years%3F,when%20the%20population%20dropped%200.5%25.

Now, you may be referring to a few anecdotes of people in your own socioeconomic class that may have moved. If that is the case, you may consider how you define "people."

On a per capita basis the county is getting poorer and will continue to do so. It seems to be one of the county’s goals.

Is that more accurate?

No, it is not.

Per capita income is going up.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MHIMD24031A052NCEN
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PCPI24031

In absolute terms? Yes, so has the price of eggs. In absolute terms everything has gone up. In real terms? Not so much.

Inflation adjusted median household income is declining. So yes the county is getting poorer. In 2008 inflation adjusted HHI was $127,700 and in 2022 it was $118,020.

And Fairfax is blowing away Montgomery County.

https://www.neilsberg.com/insights/fairfax-county-va-median-household-income/

The median household income in Fairfax went up $2,578 in the ten years of your link. And it DECREASED in 2021.
In contrast, the median household income in MoCo went up $854 in those same ten years, with an INCREASE in 2021.

Not sure how you define "blowing away."

It was 3x better than Moco..

So an extra $100 a month? Big whoop.

Now net worth I can definitely imagine a difference with as home values have definitely appreciated more in Fairfax Co over MoCo. But that can change over time. MoCo prices could go higher as a percentage.

The reason why home prices have increased more in Fairfax is because Fairfax is attracting more upper income taxpayers. Very simple. More people who can pay. Absent a change in political attitudes, that will not change in MoCo.

This answer makes the distinction very clear. We could have policy that is geared on making MoCo an enclave for the upper class. Or we could have policy that makes MoCo an affordable and accessible place for a range of classes.

Voters have elected officials who support the latter.

Could we settle on at least making it friendly to the middle class instead of actively running them off?

https://montgomeryplanning.org/blog-design/2024/03/repositioning-montgomery-county-for-prosperity-part-2-montgomery-countys-income-shifts-in-regional-and-national-contexts/?fbclid=IwAR15wG53m4cs7Q4FU1QSxJx5wp3RmeKsmfAr2JGfccNUKfP5Qj8coZcMnGs_aem_AVuvHLLDYuekxXbd-A_f-JDn--9X6AX-MJoCG_TINpOpsqmgNOYBgha0EOydlO3Vx5E

Moco is already wildly diverse economically. I'm not sure why you think it's only an Upper Class county. Have you been to the Northern part of the county??

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why why density everywhere is a goal? People are fleeing this region! Population is not increasing.

I'm sorry, but you are factually wrong. The population of the county has increased and is projected to continue increasing. Here is just two sources:

https://montgomeryplanning.org/blog-design/2023/07/steady-growth-projected-for-montgomery-county-over-the-next-30-years/
https://usafacts.org/data/topics/people-society/population-and-demographics/our-changing-population/state/maryland/county/montgomery-county/#:~:text=Source%3A-,How%20has%20Montgomery%20County's%20population%20changed%20over%20the%20years%3F,when%20the%20population%20dropped%200.5%25.

Now, you may be referring to a few anecdotes of people in your own socioeconomic class that may have moved. If that is the case, you may consider how you define "people."

On a per capita basis the county is getting poorer and will continue to do so. It seems to be one of the county’s goals.

Is that more accurate?

No, it is not.

Per capita income is going up.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MHIMD24031A052NCEN
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PCPI24031

In absolute terms? Yes, so has the price of eggs. In absolute terms everything has gone up. In real terms? Not so much.

Inflation adjusted median household income is declining. So yes the county is getting poorer. In 2008 inflation adjusted HHI was $127,700 and in 2022 it was $118,020.

And Fairfax is blowing away Montgomery County.

https://www.neilsberg.com/insights/fairfax-county-va-median-household-income/

The median household income in Fairfax went up $2,578 in the ten years of your link. And it DECREASED in 2021.
In contrast, the median household income in MoCo went up $854 in those same ten years, with an INCREASE in 2021.

Not sure how you define "blowing away."

It was 3x better than Moco..

So an extra $100 a month? Big whoop.

Now net worth I can definitely imagine a difference with as home values have definitely appreciated more in Fairfax Co over MoCo. But that can change over time. MoCo prices could go higher as a percentage.

The reason why home prices have increased more in Fairfax is because Fairfax is attracting more upper income taxpayers. Very simple. More people who can pay. Absent a change in political attitudes, that will not change in MoCo.

This answer makes the distinction very clear. We could have policy that is geared on making MoCo an enclave for the upper class. Or we could have policy that makes MoCo an affordable and accessible place for a range of classes.

Voters have elected officials who support the latter.

Why is it bad to WANT to attract "upper class" residents? That's good for everyone. Increases revenue on multiple fronts and maintains property values

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why why density everywhere is a goal? People are fleeing this region! Population is not increasing.

I'm sorry, but you are factually wrong. The population of the county has increased and is projected to continue increasing. Here is just two sources:

https://montgomeryplanning.org/blog-design/2023/07/steady-growth-projected-for-montgomery-county-over-the-next-30-years/
https://usafacts.org/data/topics/people-society/population-and-demographics/our-changing-population/state/maryland/county/montgomery-county/#:~:text=Source%3A-,How%20has%20Montgomery%20County's%20population%20changed%20over%20the%20years%3F,when%20the%20population%20dropped%200.5%25.

Now, you may be referring to a few anecdotes of people in your own socioeconomic class that may have moved. If that is the case, you may consider how you define "people."

On a per capita basis the county is getting poorer and will continue to do so. It seems to be one of the county’s goals.

Is that more accurate?

No, it is not.

Per capita income is going up.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MHIMD24031A052NCEN
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PCPI24031

In absolute terms? Yes, so has the price of eggs. In absolute terms everything has gone up. In real terms? Not so much.

Inflation adjusted median household income is declining. So yes the county is getting poorer. In 2008 inflation adjusted HHI was $127,700 and in 2022 it was $118,020.

And Fairfax is blowing away Montgomery County.

https://www.neilsberg.com/insights/fairfax-county-va-median-household-income/

The median household income in Fairfax went up $2,578 in the ten years of your link. And it DECREASED in 2021.
In contrast, the median household income in MoCo went up $854 in those same ten years, with an INCREASE in 2021.

Not sure how you define "blowing away."

It was 3x better than Moco..

So an extra $100 a month? Big whoop.

Now net worth I can definitely imagine a difference with as home values have definitely appreciated more in Fairfax Co over MoCo. But that can change over time. MoCo prices could go higher as a percentage.

The reason why home prices have increased more in Fairfax is because Fairfax is attracting more upper income taxpayers. Very simple. More people who can pay. Absent a change in political attitudes, that will not change in MoCo.

This answer makes the distinction very clear. We could have policy that is geared on making MoCo an enclave for the upper class. Or we could have policy that makes MoCo an affordable and accessible place for a range of classes.

Voters have elected officials who support the latter.

Could we settle on at least making it friendly to the middle class instead of actively running them off?

https://montgomeryplanning.org/blog-design/2024/03/repositioning-montgomery-county-for-prosperity-part-2-montgomery-countys-income-shifts-in-regional-and-national-contexts/?fbclid=IwAR15wG53m4cs7Q4FU1QSxJx5wp3RmeKsmfAr2JGfccNUKfP5Qj8coZcMnGs_aem_AVuvHLLDYuekxXbd-A_f-JDn--9X6AX-MJoCG_TINpOpsqmgNOYBgha0EOydlO3Vx5E

We could have policies that attract the middle class, but our elected officials have focused on below market rate affordable housing at the expense of housing the middle class. The 15 percent MPDU requirement makes some projects infeasible and drives up rents at others. None of the county’s policies are geared toward the middle class. Housing policies favor lower income levels, the county council treats the middle class as its piggy bank, and the county’s job market is terrible.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why why density everywhere is a goal? People are fleeing this region! Population is not increasing.

I'm sorry, but you are factually wrong. The population of the county has increased and is projected to continue increasing. Here is just two sources:

https://montgomeryplanning.org/blog-design/2023/07/steady-growth-projected-for-montgomery-county-over-the-next-30-years/
https://usafacts.org/data/topics/people-society/population-and-demographics/our-changing-population/state/maryland/county/montgomery-county/#:~:text=Source%3A-,How%20has%20Montgomery%20County's%20population%20changed%20over%20the%20years%3F,when%20the%20population%20dropped%200.5%25.

Now, you may be referring to a few anecdotes of people in your own socioeconomic class that may have moved. If that is the case, you may consider how you define "people."

On a per capita basis the county is getting poorer and will continue to do so. It seems to be one of the county’s goals.

Is that more accurate?

No, it is not.

Per capita income is going up.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MHIMD24031A052NCEN
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PCPI24031

In absolute terms? Yes, so has the price of eggs. In absolute terms everything has gone up. In real terms? Not so much.

Inflation adjusted median household income is declining. So yes the county is getting poorer. In 2008 inflation adjusted HHI was $127,700 and in 2022 it was $118,020.

And Fairfax is blowing away Montgomery County.

https://www.neilsberg.com/insights/fairfax-county-va-median-household-income/

The median household income in Fairfax went up $2,578 in the ten years of your link. And it DECREASED in 2021.
In contrast, the median household income in MoCo went up $854 in those same ten years, with an INCREASE in 2021.

Not sure how you define "blowing away."

It was 3x better than Moco..

So an extra $100 a month? Big whoop.

Now net worth I can definitely imagine a difference with as home values have definitely appreciated more in Fairfax Co over MoCo. But that can change over time. MoCo prices could go higher as a percentage.

The reason why home prices have increased more in Fairfax is because Fairfax is attracting more upper income taxpayers. Very simple. More people who can pay. Absent a change in political attitudes, that will not change in MoCo.

This answer makes the distinction very clear. We could have policy that is geared on making MoCo an enclave for the upper class. Or we could have policy that makes MoCo an affordable and accessible place for a range of classes.

Voters have elected officials who support the latter.

Why is it bad to WANT to attract "upper class" residents? That's good for everyone. Increases revenue on multiple fronts and maintains property values

Not necessarily. It depends on what "upper class" residents want. If they want things that are good for everyone, it's good for everyone. On the other hand, if they want things that are good for "upper class" residents but bad for everyone else, it's not good for everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why why density everywhere is a goal? People are fleeing this region! Population is not increasing.

I'm sorry, but you are factually wrong. The population of the county has increased and is projected to continue increasing. Here is just two sources:

https://montgomeryplanning.org/blog-design/2023/07/steady-growth-projected-for-montgomery-county-over-the-next-30-years/
https://usafacts.org/data/topics/people-society/population-and-demographics/our-changing-population/state/maryland/county/montgomery-county/#:~:text=Source%3A-,How%20has%20Montgomery%20County's%20population%20changed%20over%20the%20years%3F,when%20the%20population%20dropped%200.5%25.

Now, you may be referring to a few anecdotes of people in your own socioeconomic class that may have moved. If that is the case, you may consider how you define "people."

On a per capita basis the county is getting poorer and will continue to do so. It seems to be one of the county’s goals.

Is that more accurate?

No, it is not.

Per capita income is going up.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MHIMD24031A052NCEN
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PCPI24031

In absolute terms? Yes, so has the price of eggs. In absolute terms everything has gone up. In real terms? Not so much.

Inflation adjusted median household income is declining. So yes the county is getting poorer. In 2008 inflation adjusted HHI was $127,700 and in 2022 it was $118,020.

And Fairfax is blowing away Montgomery County.

https://www.neilsberg.com/insights/fairfax-county-va-median-household-income/

The median household income in Fairfax went up $2,578 in the ten years of your link. And it DECREASED in 2021.
In contrast, the median household income in MoCo went up $854 in those same ten years, with an INCREASE in 2021.

Not sure how you define "blowing away."

It was 3x better than Moco..

So an extra $100 a month? Big whoop.

Now net worth I can definitely imagine a difference with as home values have definitely appreciated more in Fairfax Co over MoCo. But that can change over time. MoCo prices could go higher as a percentage.

The reason why home prices have increased more in Fairfax is because Fairfax is attracting more upper income taxpayers. Very simple. More people who can pay. Absent a change in political attitudes, that will not change in MoCo.

This answer makes the distinction very clear. We could have policy that is geared on making MoCo an enclave for the upper class. Or we could have policy that makes MoCo an affordable and accessible place for a range of classes.

Voters have elected officials who support the latter.

Why is it bad to WANT to attract "upper class" residents? That's good for everyone. Increases revenue on multiple fronts and maintains property values

Not necessarily. It depends on what "upper class" residents want. If they want things that are good for everyone, it's good for everyone. On the other hand, if they want things that are good for "upper class" residents but bad for everyone else, it's not good for everyone.

Moco is never going to be some conservative, regressive county that is only in it for the rich. The affluent residents are moderate and get that policies need to better everyone. With that, it doesn't mean Moco should not incentivize wealthy residents to stay/move here. You can get a win win situation across the board. It just takes a level headed approach...something the Moco Council Progressive mafia doesn't have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why why density everywhere is a goal? People are fleeing this region! Population is not increasing.

I'm sorry, but you are factually wrong. The population of the county has increased and is projected to continue increasing. Here is just two sources:

https://montgomeryplanning.org/blog-design/2023/07/steady-growth-projected-for-montgomery-county-over-the-next-30-years/
https://usafacts.org/data/topics/people-society/population-and-demographics/our-changing-population/state/maryland/county/montgomery-county/#:~:text=Source%3A-,How%20has%20Montgomery%20County's%20population%20changed%20over%20the%20years%3F,when%20the%20population%20dropped%200.5%25.

Now, you may be referring to a few anecdotes of people in your own socioeconomic class that may have moved. If that is the case, you may consider how you define "people."

On a per capita basis the county is getting poorer and will continue to do so. It seems to be one of the county’s goals.

Is that more accurate?

No, it is not.

Per capita income is going up.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MHIMD24031A052NCEN
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PCPI24031

In absolute terms? Yes, so has the price of eggs. In absolute terms everything has gone up. In real terms? Not so much.

Inflation adjusted median household income is declining. So yes the county is getting poorer. In 2008 inflation adjusted HHI was $127,700 and in 2022 it was $118,020.

And Fairfax is blowing away Montgomery County.

https://www.neilsberg.com/insights/fairfax-county-va-median-household-income/

The median household income in Fairfax went up $2,578 in the ten years of your link. And it DECREASED in 2021.
In contrast, the median household income in MoCo went up $854 in those same ten years, with an INCREASE in 2021.

Not sure how you define "blowing away."

It was 3x better than Moco..

So an extra $100 a month? Big whoop.

Now net worth I can definitely imagine a difference with as home values have definitely appreciated more in Fairfax Co over MoCo. But that can change over time. MoCo prices could go higher as a percentage.

The reason why home prices have increased more in Fairfax is because Fairfax is attracting more upper income taxpayers. Very simple. More people who can pay. Absent a change in political attitudes, that will not change in MoCo.

This answer makes the distinction very clear. We could have policy that is geared on making MoCo an enclave for the upper class. Or we could have policy that makes MoCo an affordable and accessible place for a range of classes.

Voters have elected officials who support the latter.

Why is it bad to WANT to attract "upper class" residents? That's good for everyone. Increases revenue on multiple fronts and maintains property values

Not necessarily. It depends on what "upper class" residents want. If they want things that are good for everyone, it's good for everyone. On the other hand, if they want things that are good for "upper class" residents but bad for everyone else, it's not good for everyone.

Moco is never going to be some conservative, regressive county that is only in it for the rich. The affluent residents are moderate and get that policies need to better everyone. With that, it doesn't mean Moco should not incentivize wealthy residents to stay/move here. You can get a win win situation across the board. It just takes a level headed approach...something the Moco Council Progressive mafia doesn't have.

"incentivize wealthy residents" how?

The County Council has 11 members. 3 of them, at most, are progressive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why why density everywhere is a goal? People are fleeing this region! Population is not increasing.

I'm sorry, but you are factually wrong. The population of the county has increased and is projected to continue increasing. Here is just two sources:

https://montgomeryplanning.org/blog-design/2023/07/steady-growth-projected-for-montgomery-county-over-the-next-30-years/
https://usafacts.org/data/topics/people-society/population-and-demographics/our-changing-population/state/maryland/county/montgomery-county/#:~:text=Source%3A-,How%20has%20Montgomery%20County's%20population%20changed%20over%20the%20years%3F,when%20the%20population%20dropped%200.5%25.

Now, you may be referring to a few anecdotes of people in your own socioeconomic class that may have moved. If that is the case, you may consider how you define "people."

On a per capita basis the county is getting poorer and will continue to do so. It seems to be one of the county’s goals.

Is that more accurate?

No, it is not.

Per capita income is going up.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MHIMD24031A052NCEN
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PCPI24031

In absolute terms? Yes, so has the price of eggs. In absolute terms everything has gone up. In real terms? Not so much.

Inflation adjusted median household income is declining. So yes the county is getting poorer. In 2008 inflation adjusted HHI was $127,700 and in 2022 it was $118,020.

And Fairfax is blowing away Montgomery County.

https://www.neilsberg.com/insights/fairfax-county-va-median-household-income/

The median household income in Fairfax went up $2,578 in the ten years of your link. And it DECREASED in 2021.
In contrast, the median household income in MoCo went up $854 in those same ten years, with an INCREASE in 2021.

Not sure how you define "blowing away."

It was 3x better than Moco..

So an extra $100 a month? Big whoop.

Now net worth I can definitely imagine a difference with as home values have definitely appreciated more in Fairfax Co over MoCo. But that can change over time. MoCo prices could go higher as a percentage.

The reason why home prices have increased more in Fairfax is because Fairfax is attracting more upper income taxpayers. Very simple. More people who can pay. Absent a change in political attitudes, that will not change in MoCo.

This answer makes the distinction very clear. We could have policy that is geared on making MoCo an enclave for the upper class. Or we could have policy that makes MoCo an affordable and accessible place for a range of classes.

Voters have elected officials who support the latter.

Could we settle on at least making it friendly to the middle class instead of actively running them off?

https://montgomeryplanning.org/blog-design/2024/03/repositioning-montgomery-county-for-prosperity-part-2-montgomery-countys-income-shifts-in-regional-and-national-contexts/?fbclid=IwAR15wG53m4cs7Q4FU1QSxJx5wp3RmeKsmfAr2JGfccNUKfP5Qj8coZcMnGs_aem_AVuvHLLDYuekxXbd-A_f-JDn--9X6AX-MJoCG_TINpOpsqmgNOYBgha0EOydlO3Vx5E

It’s possible that middle class households just prefer to live somewhere else. This county has a lot working against it.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why why density everywhere is a goal? People are fleeing this region! Population is not increasing.

I'm sorry, but you are factually wrong. The population of the county has increased and is projected to continue increasing. Here is just two sources:

https://montgomeryplanning.org/blog-design/2023/07/steady-growth-projected-for-montgomery-county-over-the-next-30-years/
https://usafacts.org/data/topics/people-society/population-and-demographics/our-changing-population/state/maryland/county/montgomery-county/#:~:text=Source%3A-,How%20has%20Montgomery%20County's%20population%20changed%20over%20the%20years%3F,when%20the%20population%20dropped%200.5%25.

Now, you may be referring to a few anecdotes of people in your own socioeconomic class that may have moved. If that is the case, you may consider how you define "people."

On a per capita basis the county is getting poorer and will continue to do so. It seems to be one of the county’s goals.

Is that more accurate?

No, it is not.

Per capita income is going up.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MHIMD24031A052NCEN
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PCPI24031

In absolute terms? Yes, so has the price of eggs. In absolute terms everything has gone up. In real terms? Not so much.

Inflation adjusted median household income is declining. So yes the county is getting poorer. In 2008 inflation adjusted HHI was $127,700 and in 2022 it was $118,020.

And Fairfax is blowing away Montgomery County.

https://www.neilsberg.com/insights/fairfax-county-va-median-household-income/

The median household income in Fairfax went up $2,578 in the ten years of your link. And it DECREASED in 2021.
In contrast, the median household income in MoCo went up $854 in those same ten years, with an INCREASE in 2021.

Not sure how you define "blowing away."

It was 3x better than Moco..

So an extra $100 a month? Big whoop.

Now net worth I can definitely imagine a difference with as home values have definitely appreciated more in Fairfax Co over MoCo. But that can change over time. MoCo prices could go higher as a percentage.

The reason why home prices have increased more in Fairfax is because Fairfax is attracting more upper income taxpayers. Very simple. More people who can pay. Absent a change in political attitudes, that will not change in MoCo.

This answer makes the distinction very clear. We could have policy that is geared on making MoCo an enclave for the upper class. Or we could have policy that makes MoCo an affordable and accessible place for a range of classes.

Voters have elected officials who support the latter.

Why is it bad to WANT to attract "upper class" residents? That's good for everyone. Increases revenue on multiple fronts and maintains property values

Not necessarily. It depends on what "upper class" residents want. If they want things that are good for everyone, it's good for everyone. On the other hand, if they want things that are good for "upper class" residents but bad for everyone else, it's not good for everyone.

Moco is never going to be some conservative, regressive county that is only in it for the rich. The affluent residents are moderate and get that policies need to better everyone. With that, it doesn't mean Moco should not incentivize wealthy residents to stay/move here. You can get a win win situation across the board. It just takes a level headed approach...something the Moco Council Progressive mafia doesn't have.

"incentivize wealthy residents" how?

The County Council has 11 members. 3 of them, at most, are progressive.

Not jack up property tax valuations, tax incentives for small business and a removal of the state estate tax to become competitive with VA

Easy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why why density everywhere is a goal? People are fleeing this region! Population is not increasing.

I'm sorry, but you are factually wrong. The population of the county has increased and is projected to continue increasing. Here is just two sources:

https://montgomeryplanning.org/blog-design/2023/07/steady-growth-projected-for-montgomery-county-over-the-next-30-years/
https://usafacts.org/data/topics/people-society/population-and-demographics/our-changing-population/state/maryland/county/montgomery-county/#:~:text=Source%3A-,How%20has%20Montgomery%20County's%20population%20changed%20over%20the%20years%3F,when%20the%20population%20dropped%200.5%25.

Now, you may be referring to a few anecdotes of people in your own socioeconomic class that may have moved. If that is the case, you may consider how you define "people."

On a per capita basis the county is getting poorer and will continue to do so. It seems to be one of the county’s goals.

Is that more accurate?

No, it is not.

Per capita income is going up.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MHIMD24031A052NCEN
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PCPI24031

In absolute terms? Yes, so has the price of eggs. In absolute terms everything has gone up. In real terms? Not so much.

Inflation adjusted median household income is declining. So yes the county is getting poorer. In 2008 inflation adjusted HHI was $127,700 and in 2022 it was $118,020.

And Fairfax is blowing away Montgomery County.

https://www.neilsberg.com/insights/fairfax-county-va-median-household-income/

The median household income in Fairfax went up $2,578 in the ten years of your link. And it DECREASED in 2021.
In contrast, the median household income in MoCo went up $854 in those same ten years, with an INCREASE in 2021.

Not sure how you define "blowing away."

It was 3x better than Moco..

So an extra $100 a month? Big whoop.

Now net worth I can definitely imagine a difference with as home values have definitely appreciated more in Fairfax Co over MoCo. But that can change over time. MoCo prices could go higher as a percentage.

The reason why home prices have increased more in Fairfax is because Fairfax is attracting more upper income taxpayers. Very simple. More people who can pay. Absent a change in political attitudes, that will not change in MoCo.

This answer makes the distinction very clear. We could have policy that is geared on making MoCo an enclave for the upper class. Or we could have policy that makes MoCo an affordable and accessible place for a range of classes.

Voters have elected officials who support the latter.

Why is it bad to WANT to attract "upper class" residents? That's good for everyone. Increases revenue on multiple fronts and maintains property values

I didn’t say it was “bad”. I said it is a different policy goal.

That being said, how do you define “everyone”? Seems that at a minimum it only includes property owners.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why why density everywhere is a goal? People are fleeing this region! Population is not increasing.

I'm sorry, but you are factually wrong. The population of the county has increased and is projected to continue increasing. Here is just two sources:

https://montgomeryplanning.org/blog-design/2023/07/steady-growth-projected-for-montgomery-county-over-the-next-30-years/
https://usafacts.org/data/topics/people-society/population-and-demographics/our-changing-population/state/maryland/county/montgomery-county/#:~:text=Source%3A-,How%20has%20Montgomery%20County's%20population%20changed%20over%20the%20years%3F,when%20the%20population%20dropped%200.5%25.

Now, you may be referring to a few anecdotes of people in your own socioeconomic class that may have moved. If that is the case, you may consider how you define "people."

On a per capita basis the county is getting poorer and will continue to do so. It seems to be one of the county’s goals.

Is that more accurate?

No, it is not.

Per capita income is going up.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MHIMD24031A052NCEN
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PCPI24031

In absolute terms? Yes, so has the price of eggs. In absolute terms everything has gone up. In real terms? Not so much.

Inflation adjusted median household income is declining. So yes the county is getting poorer. In 2008 inflation adjusted HHI was $127,700 and in 2022 it was $118,020.

And Fairfax is blowing away Montgomery County.

https://www.neilsberg.com/insights/fairfax-county-va-median-household-income/

The median household income in Fairfax went up $2,578 in the ten years of your link. And it DECREASED in 2021.
In contrast, the median household income in MoCo went up $854 in those same ten years, with an INCREASE in 2021.

Not sure how you define "blowing away."

It was 3x better than Moco..

So an extra $100 a month? Big whoop.

Now net worth I can definitely imagine a difference with as home values have definitely appreciated more in Fairfax Co over MoCo. But that can change over time. MoCo prices could go higher as a percentage.

The reason why home prices have increased more in Fairfax is because Fairfax is attracting more upper income taxpayers. Very simple. More people who can pay. Absent a change in political attitudes, that will not change in MoCo.

This answer makes the distinction very clear. We could have policy that is geared on making MoCo an enclave for the upper class. Or we could have policy that makes MoCo an affordable and accessible place for a range of classes.

Voters have elected officials who support the latter.

Why is it bad to WANT to attract "upper class" residents? That's good for everyone. Increases revenue on multiple fronts and maintains property values

Not necessarily. It depends on what "upper class" residents want. If they want things that are good for everyone, it's good for everyone. On the other hand, if they want things that are good for "upper class" residents but bad for everyone else, it's not good for everyone.

Moco is never going to be some conservative, regressive county that is only in it for the rich. The affluent residents are moderate and get that policies need to better everyone. With that, it doesn't mean Moco should not incentivize wealthy residents to stay/move here. You can get a win win situation across the board. It just takes a level headed approach...something the Moco Council Progressive mafia doesn't have.

"incentivize wealthy residents" how?

The County Council has 11 members. 3 of them, at most, are progressive.

Not jack up property tax valuations, tax incentives for small business and a removal of the state estate tax to become competitive with VA

Easy.

Oh. Tax cuts. Of course. Always, always tax cuts. Apparently the one and only thing rich people want in life is tax cuts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why why density everywhere is a goal? People are fleeing this region! Population is not increasing.

I'm sorry, but you are factually wrong. The population of the county has increased and is projected to continue increasing. Here is just two sources:

https://montgomeryplanning.org/blog-design/2023/07/steady-growth-projected-for-montgomery-county-over-the-next-30-years/
https://usafacts.org/data/topics/people-society/population-and-demographics/our-changing-population/state/maryland/county/montgomery-county/#:~:text=Source%3A-,How%20has%20Montgomery%20County's%20population%20changed%20over%20the%20years%3F,when%20the%20population%20dropped%200.5%25.

Now, you may be referring to a few anecdotes of people in your own socioeconomic class that may have moved. If that is the case, you may consider how you define "people."

On a per capita basis the county is getting poorer and will continue to do so. It seems to be one of the county’s goals.

Is that more accurate?

No, it is not.

Per capita income is going up.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MHIMD24031A052NCEN
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PCPI24031

In absolute terms? Yes, so has the price of eggs. In absolute terms everything has gone up. In real terms? Not so much.

Inflation adjusted median household income is declining. So yes the county is getting poorer. In 2008 inflation adjusted HHI was $127,700 and in 2022 it was $118,020.

And Fairfax is blowing away Montgomery County.

https://www.neilsberg.com/insights/fairfax-county-va-median-household-income/

The median household income in Fairfax went up $2,578 in the ten years of your link. And it DECREASED in 2021.
In contrast, the median household income in MoCo went up $854 in those same ten years, with an INCREASE in 2021.

Not sure how you define "blowing away."

It was 3x better than Moco..

So an extra $100 a month? Big whoop.

Now net worth I can definitely imagine a difference with as home values have definitely appreciated more in Fairfax Co over MoCo. But that can change over time. MoCo prices could go higher as a percentage.

The reason why home prices have increased more in Fairfax is because Fairfax is attracting more upper income taxpayers. Very simple. More people who can pay. Absent a change in political attitudes, that will not change in MoCo.

This answer makes the distinction very clear. We could have policy that is geared on making MoCo an enclave for the upper class. Or we could have policy that makes MoCo an affordable and accessible place for a range of classes.

Voters have elected officials who support the latter.

Why is it bad to WANT to attract "upper class" residents? That's good for everyone. Increases revenue on multiple fronts and maintains property values

Not necessarily. It depends on what "upper class" residents want. If they want things that are good for everyone, it's good for everyone. On the other hand, if they want things that are good for "upper class" residents but bad for everyone else, it's not good for everyone.

Moco is never going to be some conservative, regressive county that is only in it for the rich. The affluent residents are moderate and get that policies need to better everyone. With that, it doesn't mean Moco should not incentivize wealthy residents to stay/move here. You can get a win win situation across the board. It just takes a level headed approach...something the Moco Council Progressive mafia doesn't have.

"incentivize wealthy residents" how?

The County Council has 11 members. 3 of them, at most, are progressive.

Not jack up property tax valuations, tax incentives for small business and a removal of the state estate tax to become competitive with VA

Easy.

Oh. Tax cuts. Of course. Always, always tax cuts. Apparently the one and only thing rich people want in life is tax cuts.

Who wants to pay more taxes? I’m a lifelong Democrat and I know that I will always be slammed with taxes, but In what planet do people actually
Enjoy seeing less of their own money only to watch the Federal government waste it? We get crap for the taxes paid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why why density everywhere is a goal? People are fleeing this region! Population is not increasing.

I'm sorry, but you are factually wrong. The population of the county has increased and is projected to continue increasing. Here is just two sources:

https://montgomeryplanning.org/blog-design/2023/07/steady-growth-projected-for-montgomery-county-over-the-next-30-years/
https://usafacts.org/data/topics/people-society/population-and-demographics/our-changing-population/state/maryland/county/montgomery-county/#:~:text=Source%3A-,How%20has%20Montgomery%20County's%20population%20changed%20over%20the%20years%3F,when%20the%20population%20dropped%200.5%25.

Now, you may be referring to a few anecdotes of people in your own socioeconomic class that may have moved. If that is the case, you may consider how you define "people."

On a per capita basis the county is getting poorer and will continue to do so. It seems to be one of the county’s goals.

Is that more accurate?

No, it is not.

Per capita income is going up.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MHIMD24031A052NCEN
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PCPI24031

In absolute terms? Yes, so has the price of eggs. In absolute terms everything has gone up. In real terms? Not so much.

Inflation adjusted median household income is declining. So yes the county is getting poorer. In 2008 inflation adjusted HHI was $127,700 and in 2022 it was $118,020.

And Fairfax is blowing away Montgomery County.

https://www.neilsberg.com/insights/fairfax-county-va-median-household-income/

The median household income in Fairfax went up $2,578 in the ten years of your link. And it DECREASED in 2021.
In contrast, the median household income in MoCo went up $854 in those same ten years, with an INCREASE in 2021.

Not sure how you define "blowing away."

It was 3x better than Moco..

So an extra $100 a month? Big whoop.

Now net worth I can definitely imagine a difference with as home values have definitely appreciated more in Fairfax Co over MoCo. But that can change over time. MoCo prices could go higher as a percentage.

The reason why home prices have increased more in Fairfax is because Fairfax is attracting more upper income taxpayers. Very simple. More people who can pay. Absent a change in political attitudes, that will not change in MoCo.

This answer makes the distinction very clear. We could have policy that is geared on making MoCo an enclave for the upper class. Or we could have policy that makes MoCo an affordable and accessible place for a range of classes.

Voters have elected officials who support the latter.

Why is it bad to WANT to attract "upper class" residents? That's good for everyone. Increases revenue on multiple fronts and maintains property values

Not necessarily. It depends on what "upper class" residents want. If they want things that are good for everyone, it's good for everyone. On the other hand, if they want things that are good for "upper class" residents but bad for everyone else, it's not good for everyone.

Moco is never going to be some conservative, regressive county that is only in it for the rich. The affluent residents are moderate and get that policies need to better everyone. With that, it doesn't mean Moco should not incentivize wealthy residents to stay/move here. You can get a win win situation across the board. It just takes a level headed approach...something the Moco Council Progressive mafia doesn't have.

"incentivize wealthy residents" how?

The County Council has 11 members. 3 of them, at most, are progressive.

Not jack up property tax valuations, tax incentives for small business and a removal of the state estate tax to become competitive with VA

Easy.

Oh. Tax cuts. Of course. Always, always tax cuts. Apparently the one and only thing rich people want in life is tax cuts.

And yes, small incentives would greatly benefit the overall good of Moco.

I work in wealth management and I’ve had several clients move their residency to VA mainly for the estate tax benefits and lower income rates. High income earners are starting to move in many white collar jobs making high six figure to multiple millions. At some point, if people feel pinched enough they’ll move. That doesn’t benefit anyone - rich, middle class or poor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why why density everywhere is a goal? People are fleeing this region! Population is not increasing.

I'm sorry, but you are factually wrong. The population of the county has increased and is projected to continue increasing. Here is just two sources:

https://montgomeryplanning.org/blog-design/2023/07/steady-growth-projected-for-montgomery-county-over-the-next-30-years/
https://usafacts.org/data/topics/people-society/population-and-demographics/our-changing-population/state/maryland/county/montgomery-county/#:~:text=Source%3A-,How%20has%20Montgomery%20County's%20population%20changed%20over%20the%20years%3F,when%20the%20population%20dropped%200.5%25.

Now, you may be referring to a few anecdotes of people in your own socioeconomic class that may have moved. If that is the case, you may consider how you define "people."

On a per capita basis the county is getting poorer and will continue to do so. It seems to be one of the county’s goals.

Is that more accurate?

No, it is not.

Per capita income is going up.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MHIMD24031A052NCEN
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PCPI24031

In absolute terms? Yes, so has the price of eggs. In absolute terms everything has gone up. In real terms? Not so much.

Inflation adjusted median household income is declining. So yes the county is getting poorer. In 2008 inflation adjusted HHI was $127,700 and in 2022 it was $118,020.

And Fairfax is blowing away Montgomery County.

https://www.neilsberg.com/insights/fairfax-county-va-median-household-income/

The median household income in Fairfax went up $2,578 in the ten years of your link. And it DECREASED in 2021.
In contrast, the median household income in MoCo went up $854 in those same ten years, with an INCREASE in 2021.

Not sure how you define "blowing away."

It was 3x better than Moco..

So an extra $100 a month? Big whoop.

Now net worth I can definitely imagine a difference with as home values have definitely appreciated more in Fairfax Co over MoCo. But that can change over time. MoCo prices could go higher as a percentage.

The reason why home prices have increased more in Fairfax is because Fairfax is attracting more upper income taxpayers. Very simple. More people who can pay. Absent a change in political attitudes, that will not change in MoCo.

This answer makes the distinction very clear. We could have policy that is geared on making MoCo an enclave for the upper class. Or we could have policy that makes MoCo an affordable and accessible place for a range of classes.

Voters have elected officials who support the latter.

Why is it bad to WANT to attract "upper class" residents? That's good for everyone. Increases revenue on multiple fronts and maintains property values

Not necessarily. It depends on what "upper class" residents want. If they want things that are good for everyone, it's good for everyone. On the other hand, if they want things that are good for "upper class" residents but bad for everyone else, it's not good for everyone.

Moco is never going to be some conservative, regressive county that is only in it for the rich. The affluent residents are moderate and get that policies need to better everyone. With that, it doesn't mean Moco should not incentivize wealthy residents to stay/move here. You can get a win win situation across the board. It just takes a level headed approach...something the Moco Council Progressive mafia doesn't have.

"incentivize wealthy residents" how?

The County Council has 11 members. 3 of them, at most, are progressive.

Not jack up property tax valuations, tax incentives for small business and a removal of the state estate tax to become competitive with VA

Easy.

Oh. Tax cuts. Of course. Always, always tax cuts. Apparently the one and only thing rich people want in life is tax cuts.

Who wants to pay more taxes? I’m a lifelong Democrat and I know that I will always be slammed with taxes, but In what planet do people actually
Enjoy seeing less of their own money only to watch the Federal government waste it? We get crap for the taxes paid.

I would expect a lifelong Democrat to understand that taxes is how the government pays for public services.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why why density everywhere is a goal? People are fleeing this region! Population is not increasing.

I'm sorry, but you are factually wrong. The population of the county has increased and is projected to continue increasing. Here is just two sources:

https://montgomeryplanning.org/blog-design/2023/07/steady-growth-projected-for-montgomery-county-over-the-next-30-years/
https://usafacts.org/data/topics/people-society/population-and-demographics/our-changing-population/state/maryland/county/montgomery-county/#:~:text=Source%3A-,How%20has%20Montgomery%20County's%20population%20changed%20over%20the%20years%3F,when%20the%20population%20dropped%200.5%25.

Now, you may be referring to a few anecdotes of people in your own socioeconomic class that may have moved. If that is the case, you may consider how you define "people."

On a per capita basis the county is getting poorer and will continue to do so. It seems to be one of the county’s goals.

Is that more accurate?

No, it is not.

Per capita income is going up.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MHIMD24031A052NCEN
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PCPI24031

In absolute terms? Yes, so has the price of eggs. In absolute terms everything has gone up. In real terms? Not so much.

Inflation adjusted median household income is declining. So yes the county is getting poorer. In 2008 inflation adjusted HHI was $127,700 and in 2022 it was $118,020.

And Fairfax is blowing away Montgomery County.

https://www.neilsberg.com/insights/fairfax-county-va-median-household-income/

The median household income in Fairfax went up $2,578 in the ten years of your link. And it DECREASED in 2021.
In contrast, the median household income in MoCo went up $854 in those same ten years, with an INCREASE in 2021.

Not sure how you define "blowing away."

It was 3x better than Moco..

So an extra $100 a month? Big whoop.

Now net worth I can definitely imagine a difference with as home values have definitely appreciated more in Fairfax Co over MoCo. But that can change over time. MoCo prices could go higher as a percentage.

The reason why home prices have increased more in Fairfax is because Fairfax is attracting more upper income taxpayers. Very simple. More people who can pay. Absent a change in political attitudes, that will not change in MoCo.

This answer makes the distinction very clear. We could have policy that is geared on making MoCo an enclave for the upper class. Or we could have policy that makes MoCo an affordable and accessible place for a range of classes.

Voters have elected officials who support the latter.

Why is it bad to WANT to attract "upper class" residents? That's good for everyone. Increases revenue on multiple fronts and maintains property values

Not necessarily. It depends on what "upper class" residents want. If they want things that are good for everyone, it's good for everyone. On the other hand, if they want things that are good for "upper class" residents but bad for everyone else, it's not good for everyone.

Moco is never going to be some conservative, regressive county that is only in it for the rich. The affluent residents are moderate and get that policies need to better everyone. With that, it doesn't mean Moco should not incentivize wealthy residents to stay/move here. You can get a win win situation across the board. It just takes a level headed approach...something the Moco Council Progressive mafia doesn't have.

"incentivize wealthy residents" how?

The County Council has 11 members. 3 of them, at most, are progressive.

Not jack up property tax valuations, tax incentives for small business and a removal of the state estate tax to become competitive with VA

Easy.

Oh. Tax cuts. Of course. Always, always tax cuts. Apparently the one and only thing rich people want in life is tax cuts.

Who wants to pay more taxes? I’m a lifelong Democrat and I know that I will always be slammed with taxes, but In what planet do people actually
Enjoy seeing less of their own money only to watch the Federal government waste it? We get crap for the taxes paid.

I would expect a lifelong Democrat to understand that taxes is how the government pays for public services.

How do those public services drop when your most lucrative residents move? Also, wealthier people tend to not "feel" the tangible benefits of their tax dollars. I know I don't. That doesn't mean I don't agree we need tax revenue.

I'm not advocating for income tax cuts. Property tax rates should be dropping or remaining level, particularly as accessed values have jumped a lot.

Small Businesses ALWAYS need local tax incentives to grow and remain competitive.

The estate tax is an easy fix. It impacts very little people but gives the appearance that Maryland doesn't want to lose wealthy residents to neighboring states.

Even DC is more competitive on the tax side!