My 68 year old, retired dad had to call security thrice and was shoved while subbing

[Anonymous]

Which school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Title one schools in affluent area hum…

I included the identifier in order to explain; my sister and I teach at Title I schools (as an aside, my school is a 5 min drive to pike and rose. So yes, we have Title I in affluent zones). At our schools, violence and assault is the norm.

I simply wanted to convey: my dad was NOT at a school like ours. The school he was at is one where this type of behavior would NOT be expected (it shouldn’t be expected anywhere, anyways). And it STILL happened.

That’s fascinating. I’ve worked in multiple Title I schools in some extremely challenging urban neighborhoods in Mid-Atlantic cities. In none of them were “violence and assault…the norm”. In any case, “norms” don’t always correlate perfectly with individual behavior.

Since you haven’t provided any details about what happened, perhaps your Dad isn’t cut out to be a sub — or would benefit from support and training in classroom management. Going from being a prosecutor to a job that requires the ability to immediately connect in positive ways with kids — both individually and in groups — is a huge shift, and might require a decidedly different skill set for everyone’s safety and well-being. Subbing is hard. Viewing it as “essentially volunteering “ despite presumably collecting a pay check might not be the best tack to take. Your conclusions about “absolute insanity and anarchy “ don’t bode well for our future as a community if people holding such views are teaching our kids.

Just tell us you do not know what a prosecutor does for a living-

I do know, quite well, what at least some prosecutors do for a living. And that’s how I know that the skill sets don’t overlap very much.

So, prison guard or navy seal would be best suited, or...

or a teacher

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Title one schools in affluent area hum…

I included the identifier in order to explain; my sister and I teach at Title I schools (as an aside, my school is a 5 min drive to pike and rose. So yes, we have Title I in affluent zones). At our schools, violence and assault is the norm.

I simply wanted to convey: my dad was NOT at a school like ours. The school he was at is one where this type of behavior would NOT be expected (it shouldn’t be expected anywhere, anyways). And it STILL happened.

That’s fascinating. I’ve worked in multiple Title I schools in some extremely challenging urban neighborhoods in Mid-Atlantic cities. In none of them were “violence and assault…the norm”. In any case, “norms” don’t always correlate perfectly with individual behavior.

Since you haven’t provided any details about what happened, perhaps your Dad isn’t cut out to be a sub — or would benefit from support and training in classroom management. Going from being a prosecutor to a job that requires the ability to immediately connect in positive ways with kids — both individually and in groups — is a huge shift, and might require a decidedly different skill set for everyone’s safety and well-being. Subbing is hard. Viewing it as “essentially volunteering “ despite presumably collecting a pay check might not be the best tack to take. Your conclusions about “absolute insanity and anarchy “ don’t bode well for our future as a community if people holding such views are teaching our kids.

MCPS admin has entered the chat. Always blame the teacher, not the children, for their bad behavior.

How is saying that subs deserve training and support blaming “the teacher, not the children, for their bad behavior”?

Using educator training and support as a solve for UNACCEPTABLE student behavior, such as cursing at teachers or physically assaulting them, is justifying the student's behavior and BLAMING the teacher for the unacceptable behavior.

The only response and solution to a student behaving inappropriately and against the law and the school's code of conduct is for the STUDENT to be held accountable and corrected.

I don't care if the teacher is "boring" or not culturally relevant enough to hold the attendance of YouTube and TikTok-addicted children. Being boring or "not engaging enough" is not a reason to be cursed at or hit. Unacceptable.

No, actually it’s not. If a job includes “UNACCEPTABLE student behavior” it really does make sense for teachers and subs to have training in — wait for it: handling unacceptable behavior.

Training teachers and subs to safely handle unacceptable student behavior in no way prevents holding students accountable for their behavior or from correcting such behavior.

No one, least of all me, has suggested whatever it is you’re going on about with your last comment.

You are making an assumption that this man has not HAD whatever training you're talking about. The reality is training can teach you how to RESPOND to unacceptable student behavior but it does not have the PREVENTATIVE effect you are claiming.

Your instinct in hearing this story was to immediately say the teacher was responsible for the student who shoved him. That speaks to who you view as accountable for the behavior and that's what I'm telling you is awful and unfair to educators who accept having to engage and coax learning and education out of students who might not be interested. But most teachers are NOT signing up to get hit. Especially at the middle and high school age. Maybe at the pre-K and early elementary levels, that's to be more expected.

1. Where have I claimed that training subs has a “PREVENTATIVE “ effect?

2. Yes, I am making the assumption that a temporary sub has had minimal if any training for the position. If you know of any training that’s offered to temporary subs in Montgomery County, please correct my assumptions.m

3. Nope. That’s not my assumption. None of it.

To correct: 3. Nope. That’s not my INSTINCT. None of it.

PP, Surely you realize that you’re attributing comments to me that I didn’t say, and “instincts” that you can’t support based on the comments that I have made.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Title one schools in affluent area hum…

I included the identifier in order to explain; my sister and I teach at Title I schools (as an aside, my school is a 5 min drive to pike and rose. So yes, we have Title I in affluent zones). At our schools, violence and assault is the norm.

I simply wanted to convey: my dad was NOT at a school like ours. The school he was at is one where this type of behavior would NOT be expected (it shouldn’t be expected anywhere, anyways). And it STILL happened.

That’s fascinating. I’ve worked in multiple Title I schools in some extremely challenging urban neighborhoods in Mid-Atlantic cities. In none of them were “violence and assault…the norm”. In any case, “norms” don’t always correlate perfectly with individual behavior.

Since you haven’t provided any details about what happened, perhaps your Dad isn’t cut out to be a sub — or would benefit from support and training in classroom management. Going from being a prosecutor to a job that requires the ability to immediately connect in positive ways with kids — both individually and in groups — is a huge shift, and might require a decidedly different skill set for everyone’s safety and well-being. Subbing is hard. Viewing it as “essentially volunteering “ despite presumably collecting a pay check might not be the best tack to take. Your conclusions about “absolute insanity and anarchy “ don’t bode well for our future as a community if people holding such views are teaching our kids.

Just tell us you do not know what a prosecutor does for a living-

I do know, quite well, what at least some prosecutors do for a living. And that’s how I know that the skill sets don’t overlap very much.

So, prison guard or navy seal would be best suited, or...

…Or a teacher who has been trained in classroom management techniques. Ideally in a setting that also includes additional trained support when those classroom management techniques are not adequate ways to address the problematic situations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your dad had three wonderful weeks and one bad day and that constitutes insanity and anarchy? Hardly. Kudos to him for helping in the schools. I hope he can get the support he deserves if he chooses to continue.

How many times do you think a sub needs to be showed in a 3 week period in order to call it insanity and anarchy?

Right? I think once is too many. Any times above zero and we are simply normalizing the ferality of students.

Can we go back to classroom removal for this?

[Anonymous]

I'm 53 and went to a rough HS out west.

I recall this one substitute, an elderly Indian man, whom everyone did not like. He was strict ( I guess that's the old school Asian thing) and had a thick accent, but I felt really sorry for him. One day, some kids took his car keys and hid them. I knew the kids who did it, and I told them to just give the keys back. But, they said no because the guy was a jerk.

I always tell my kids to be respectful of teachers, and to be more understanding of substitutes because many aren't real teachers and don't know how to manage a class.

I wonder if OP's dad knew how to de-escalate situations. I think a lot of older people assume that children will respect adults and authority figures, but that's not how it works today. If you try to confront the kid's bad behavior, or tell them what to do, some of these kids will push back, in this case, quite literally.

I think your dad is great to be a substitute (we need more), but I think as a sub, he should not be confrontational, at all, and just let the bad kids do whatever they want. Unfortunately, that's the way it is today because admins are too scared to do anything serious about these crappy kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your dad had three wonderful weeks and one bad day and that constitutes insanity and anarchy? Hardly. Kudos to him for helping in the schools. I hope he can get the support he deserves if he chooses to continue.

How many times do you think a sub needs to be showed in a 3 week period in order to call it insanity and anarchy?

Right? I think once is too many. Any times above zero and we are simply normalizing the ferality of students.

Can we go back to classroom removal for this?

“Go back to”? The OP states that security was called. It’s reasonable to guess that security staff removed the student, although we’ve no information regarding what did —or did not —happen after that.

In the public schools that I’m most familiar with, a middle school student would have been suspended. A middle school student with more than one incident like this would probably be put on long term suspension— which pulls in the District, and possibly Juvenile Justice. At least one likely intervention would be alternative school placement. I’m not familiar with Montgomery County policies and procedures though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Title one schools in affluent area hum…

I included the identifier in order to explain; my sister and I teach at Title I schools (as an aside, my school is a 5 min drive to pike and rose. So yes, we have Title I in affluent zones). At our schools, violence and assault is the norm.

I simply wanted to convey: my dad was NOT at a school like ours. The school he was at is one where this type of behavior would NOT be expected (it shouldn’t be expected anywhere, anyways). And it STILL happened.

That’s fascinating. I’ve worked in multiple Title I schools in some extremely challenging urban neighborhoods in Mid-Atlantic cities. In none of them were “violence and assault…the norm”. In any case, “norms” don’t always correlate perfectly with individual behavior.

Since you haven’t provided any details about what happened, perhaps your Dad isn’t cut out to be a sub — or would benefit from support and training in classroom management. Going from being a prosecutor to a job that requires the ability to immediately connect in positive ways with kids — both individually and in groups — is a huge shift, and might require a decidedly different skill set for everyone’s safety and well-being. Subbing is hard. Viewing it as “essentially volunteering “ despite presumably collecting a pay check might not be the best tack to take. Your conclusions about “absolute insanity and anarchy “ don’t bode well for our future as a community if people holding such views are teaching our kids.

Just tell us you do not know what a prosecutor does for a living-

I do know, quite well, what at least some prosecutors do for a living. And that’s how I know that the skill sets don’t overlap very much.

At least they know how to file assault charges

+100

[Anonymous]

Everyone thinks they can save the world but the kids attack the teachers and the admin and society blame the teachers and in moco the vibe is bully or be bullied. It's quite the toxic shtshow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Title one schools in affluent area hum…

I included the identifier in order to explain; my sister and I teach at Title I schools (as an aside, my school is a 5 min drive to pike and rose. So yes, we have Title I in affluent zones). At our schools, violence and assault is the norm.

I simply wanted to convey: my dad was NOT at a school like ours. The school he was at is one where this type of behavior would NOT be expected (it shouldn’t be expected anywhere, anyways). And it STILL happened.

That’s fascinating. I’ve worked in multiple Title I schools in some extremely challenging urban neighborhoods in Mid-Atlantic cities. In none of them were “violence and assault…the norm”. In any case, “norms” don’t always correlate perfectly with individual behavior.

Since you haven’t provided any details about what happened, perhaps your Dad isn’t cut out to be a sub — or would benefit from support and training in classroom management. Going from being a prosecutor to a job that requires the ability to immediately connect in positive ways with kids — both individually and in groups — is a huge shift, and might require a decidedly different skill set for everyone’s safety and well-being. Subbing is hard. Viewing it as “essentially volunteering “ despite presumably collecting a pay check might not be the best tack to take. Your conclusions about “absolute insanity and anarchy “ don’t bode well for our future as a community if people holding such views are teaching our kids.

This sounds like union gibberish.

I had a coworker threaten to bring a gun and shoot up our building. (coworker also had been acting erratically, dressing all in black and wearing black eyeliner, which was all out of character). 3 of us heard it. We reported it. The union came down on us HARD. Threatened to get us fired and said by reporting it we were creating a hostile work environment. The letter they sent us read very similar to what pp just wrote. We had no evidence to support our accusation and maybe if we created a more positive environment, things like this wouldn't happen. Victim blaming is wild.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Title one schools in affluent area hum…

I included the identifier in order to explain; my sister and I teach at Title I schools (as an aside, my school is a 5 min drive to pike and rose. So yes, we have Title I in affluent zones). At our schools, violence and assault is the norm.

I simply wanted to convey: my dad was NOT at a school like ours. The school he was at is one where this type of behavior would NOT be expected (it shouldn’t be expected anywhere, anyways). And it STILL happened.

That’s fascinating. I’ve worked in multiple Title I schools in some extremely challenging urban neighborhoods in Mid-Atlantic cities. In none of them were “violence and assault…the norm”. In any case, “norms” don’t always correlate perfectly with individual behavior.

Since you haven’t provided any details about what happened, perhaps your Dad isn’t cut out to be a sub — or would benefit from support and training in classroom management. Going from being a prosecutor to a job that requires the ability to immediately connect in positive ways with kids — both individually and in groups — is a huge shift, and might require a decidedly different skill set for everyone’s safety and well-being. Subbing is hard. Viewing it as “essentially volunteering “ despite presumably collecting a pay check might not be the best tack to take. Your conclusions about “absolute insanity and anarchy “ don’t bode well for our future as a community if people holding such views are teaching our kids.

This sounds like union gibberish.

I had a coworker threaten to bring a gun and shoot up our building. (coworker also had been acting erratically, dressing all in black and wearing black eyeliner, which was all out of character). 3 of us heard it. We reported it. The union came down on us HARD. Threatened to get us fired and said by reporting it we were creating a hostile work environment. The letter they sent us read very similar to what pp just wrote. We had no evidence to support our accusation and maybe if we created a more positive environment, things like this wouldn't happen. Victim blaming is wild.

Wow. MCEA attacks its own? Shouldn't they want its members to feel safe and not threatened by other members who threaten to bring a weapon to the school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your dad had three wonderful weeks and one bad day and that constitutes insanity and anarchy? Hardly. Kudos to him for helping in the schools. I hope he can get the support he deserves if he chooses to continue.

It's you. You're the problem.

[Anonymous]

There's going to be a flight out of Montgomery County. Its no longer a nice place to live or to raise children. You couldn't pay me to put my children in mcps though we are stuck here with 2 left in high school. It was a very different place 20 years ago.

This isn't unusual, though. UMC takes over an area, makes it a desirable place to live and the second generation starts voting as if they didn't understand why the first generation moved to a place. Third and fourth generation moves out (if they're lucky) rinse and repeat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm 53 and went to a rough HS out west.

I recall this one substitute, an elderly Indian man, whom everyone did not like. He was strict ( I guess that's the old school Asian thing) and had a thick accent, but I felt really sorry for him. One day, some kids took his car keys and hid them. I knew the kids who did it, and I told them to just give the keys back. But, they said no because the guy was a jerk.

I always tell my kids to be respectful of teachers, and to be more understanding of substitutes because many aren't real teachers and don't know how to manage a class.

I wonder if OP's dad knew how to de-escalate situations. I think a lot of older people assume that children will respect adults and authority figures, but that's not how it works today. If you try to confront the kid's bad behavior, or tell them what to do, some of these kids will push back, in this case, quite literally.

I think your dad is great to be a substitute (we need more), but I think as a sub, he should not be confrontational, at all, and just let the bad kids do whatever they want. Unfortunately, that's the way it is today because admins are too scared to do anything serious about these crappy kids.

Victim blaming. Love it. So mcps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Title one schools in affluent area hum…

I included the identifier in order to explain; my sister and I teach at Title I schools (as an aside, my school is a 5 min drive to pike and rose. So yes, we have Title I in affluent zones). At our schools, violence and assault is the norm.

I simply wanted to convey: my dad was NOT at a school like ours. The school he was at is one where this type of behavior would NOT be expected (it shouldn’t be expected anywhere, anyways). And it STILL happened.

That’s fascinating. I’ve worked in multiple Title I schools in some extremely challenging urban neighborhoods in Mid-Atlantic cities. In none of them were “violence and assault…the norm”. In any case, “norms” don’t always correlate perfectly with individual behavior.

Since you haven’t provided any details about what happened, perhaps your Dad isn’t cut out to be a sub — or would benefit from support and training in classroom management. Going from being a prosecutor to a job that requires the ability to immediately connect in positive ways with kids — both individually and in groups — is a huge shift, and might require a decidedly different skill set for everyone’s safety and well-being. Subbing is hard. Viewing it as “essentially volunteering “ despite presumably collecting a pay check might not be the best tack to take. Your conclusions about “absolute insanity and anarchy “ don’t bode well for our future as a community if people holding such views are teaching our kids.

This sounds like union gibberish.

I had a coworker threaten to bring a gun and shoot up our building. (coworker also had been acting erratically, dressing all in black and wearing black eyeliner, which was all out of character). 3 of us heard it. We reported it. The union came down on us HARD. Threatened to get us fired and said by reporting it we were creating a hostile work environment. The letter they sent us read very similar to what pp just wrote. We had no evidence to support our accusation and maybe if we created a more positive environment, things like this wouldn't happen. Victim blaming is wild.

Whatever it sounds like to you, I’m not a member of a union, and have said nothing about “creating a hostile work environment “. I have, however, suggested that training might be useful— as someone who has, myself, received helpful training for dealing with volatile behavior. PP