My 68 year old, retired dad had to call security thrice and was shoved while subbing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's going to be a flight out of Montgomery County. Its no longer a nice place to live or to raise children. You couldn't pay me to put my children in mcps though we are stuck here with 2 left in high school. It was a very different place 20 years ago.

This isn't unusual, though. UMC takes over an area, makes it a desirable place to live and the second generation starts voting as if they didn't understand why the first generation moved to a place. Third and fourth generation moves out (if they're lucky) rinse and repeat.

Bye Felicia

Well, but this quaint tale is not quite Moco’s story. When one party (Dems) gain a monopoly on power and impose policies that actually replace high paying county residents with rural migrants from central and South America- you have Moco. It still has nice pockets of upper middle class residents but it certainly is not a welcoming place for your average Joe (Jose).

Remember the waves of ‘ghost’ students about a decade ago and our leaders blamed county demographers for the overcrowding? (And miscounting). LOL.

Okay MAGA. It's all someone else's fault. Don't melt.

Are you saying that a high volume of people who value education moving out of the county and a high volume of people who don't value education as much moving into the county aren't changing things for the worse? Come on man.

Define your terms, please.

Already defined by PP in the post starting "Well, but this quaint tale."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm 53 and went to a rough HS out west.

I recall this one substitute, an elderly Indian man, whom everyone did not like. He was strict ( I guess that's the old school Asian thing) and had a thick accent, but I felt really sorry for him. One day, some kids took his car keys and hid them. I knew the kids who did it, and I told them to just give the keys back. But, they said no because the guy was a jerk.

I always tell my kids to be respectful of teachers, and to be more understanding of substitutes because many aren't real teachers and don't know how to manage a class.

I wonder if OP's dad knew how to de-escalate situations. I think a lot of older people assume that children will respect adults and authority figures, but that's not how it works today. If you try to confront the kid's bad behavior, or tell them what to do, some of these kids will push back, in this case, quite literally.

I think your dad is great to be a substitute (we need more), but I think as a sub, he should not be confrontational, at all, and just let the bad kids do whatever they want. Unfortunately, that's the way it is today because admins are too scared to do anything serious about these crappy kids.

Here’s the thing:

Kids in catholic school would respect the substitute.

Ask yourself why.

Hint:

It’s not because the catholic school kids are white. They aren’t. They are diverse.

It’s not because they are all affluent. They aren’t.

It’s because the school sets clear expectations and there are consequences. Even a modest infraction will result in parental engagement and punishment at school.

I strongly encourage the op to have her father email the County Exec, County Council, and mcps administration—including Nancy Navarro. They need visibility. There’s a small window to turn this around before it devolves any further.

Here the thing. Pubic school isn't allowed to expel (abandon) anyone. Catholics invented a religious rite for kicking out people they don't like.

But public schools are allowed to send badly behavior kids to alternative school placements. MCPS did this for years with Mark Twain. But then, because of "optics," they shut it down since the majority of kids sent there were black and brown.

So MCPS has an option and a solution, but they're removed that from their toolkit by choice. It's a self-inflicted wound.

This.

If kids don’t want to be in school and their parents are unwilling to work with the school, then mcps needs a Plan B.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm 53 and went to a rough HS out west.

I recall this one substitute, an elderly Indian man, whom everyone did not like. He was strict ( I guess that's the old school Asian thing) and had a thick accent, but I felt really sorry for him. One day, some kids took his car keys and hid them. I knew the kids who did it, and I told them to just give the keys back. But, they said no because the guy was a jerk.

I always tell my kids to be respectful of teachers, and to be more understanding of substitutes because many aren't real teachers and don't know how to manage a class.

I wonder if OP's dad knew how to de-escalate situations. I think a lot of older people assume that children will respect adults and authority figures, but that's not how it works today. If you try to confront the kid's bad behavior, or tell them what to do, some of these kids will push back, in this case, quite literally.

I think your dad is great to be a substitute (we need more), but I think as a sub, he should not be confrontational, at all, and just let the bad kids do whatever they want. Unfortunately, that's the way it is today because admins are too scared to do anything serious about these crappy kids.

Here’s the thing:

Kids in catholic school would respect the substitute.

Ask yourself why.

Hint:

It’s not because the catholic school kids are white. They aren’t. They are diverse.

It’s not because they are all affluent. They aren’t.

It’s because the school sets clear expectations and there are consequences. Even a modest infraction will result in parental engagement and punishment at school.

I strongly encourage the op to have her father email the County Exec, County Council, and mcps administration—including Nancy Navarro. They need visibility. There’s a small window to turn this around before it devolves any further.

Here the thing. Pubic school isn't allowed to expel (abandon) anyone. Catholics invented a religious rite for kicking out people they don't like.

But public schools are allowed to send badly behavior kids to alternative school placements. MCPS did this for years with Mark Twain. But then, because of "optics," they shut it down since the majority of kids sent there were black and brown.

So MCPS has an option and a solution, but they're removed that from their toolkit by choice. It's a self-inflicted wound.

This.

If kids don’t want to be in school and their parents are unwilling to work with the school, then mcps needs a Plan B.

if they're assaulting teachers jail might be appropriate

[Anonymous]

Nothing will change until the parents feel the pain directly, too. I'm talking out of school suspensions, being banned from the school bus for infractions that rise to a certain level, and on up to expulsion for the worst behaved kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm 53 and went to a rough HS out west.

I recall this one substitute, an elderly Indian man, whom everyone did not like. He was strict ( I guess that's the old school Asian thing) and had a thick accent, but I felt really sorry for him. One day, some kids took his car keys and hid them. I knew the kids who did it, and I told them to just give the keys back. But, they said no because the guy was a jerk.

I always tell my kids to be respectful of teachers, and to be more understanding of substitutes because many aren't real teachers and don't know how to manage a class.

I wonder if OP's dad knew how to de-escalate situations. I think a lot of older people assume that children will respect adults and authority figures, but that's not how it works today. If you try to confront the kid's bad behavior, or tell them what to do, some of these kids will push back, in this case, quite literally.

I think your dad is great to be a substitute (we need more), but I think as a sub, he should not be confrontational, at all, and just let the bad kids do whatever they want. Unfortunately, that's the way it is today because admins are too scared to do anything serious about these crappy kids.

Here’s the thing:

Kids in catholic school would respect the substitute.

Ask yourself why.

Hint:

It’s not because the catholic school kids are white. They aren’t. They are diverse.

It’s not because they are all affluent. They aren’t.

It’s because the school sets clear expectations and there are consequences. Even a modest infraction will result in parental engagement and punishment at school.

I strongly encourage the op to have her father email the County Exec, County Council, and mcps administration—including Nancy Navarro. They need visibility. There’s a small window to turn this around before it devolves any further.

Here the thing. Pubic school isn't allowed to expel (abandon) anyone. Catholics invented a religious rite for kicking out people they don't like.

But public schools are allowed to send badly behavior kids to alternative school placements. MCPS did this for years with Mark Twain. But then, because of "optics," they shut it down since the majority of kids sent there were black and brown.

So MCPS has an option and a solution, but they're removed that from their toolkit by choice. It's a self-inflicted wound.

Not self-inflicted. That was a direct result of No Child Left Behind and policies surrounding failing schools. You can't take all the kids who are badly behaved and don't show interest in learning and put them together in a school and then somehow expect that they will become better behaved and learn. There is no way Mark Twain would ever have met the learning growth requirements. Keeping it open would then open up MCPS to lawsuits that students place there were not receiving their "free appropriate public education".

I get the individualistic perspective where some feel like we should leave out kids who are badly behaved to focus on kids who want to learn. But as a society, that's a poor choice because those badly behaved kids with no education turn in to adults with few choices for supporting themselves who find it easier to engage in crime. Besides the economic impact of crime itself, society then spends a lot of money on policing, jails, and the legal system.

It would be less expensive overall as a society to invest more money into early childhood programs and better intervention programs for misbehaving kids, but there is no political will or societal interest in that. It's thinking too long term. Why spend money now when it will be 20 years before you start to see results? And that's why the school system's has no better options than the poor system we have currently.

[Anonymous]

I'm all for offering subs training. That will help in perhaps half of situations. But when veteran teachers, who still love their jobs can't deal with having 4-5 hugh flyers in a class, there's no way a sub can. The issues I'm seeing in schools are psychiatric issues, conduct disorder, oppositional defiance, and some autism issues. Schools need help. Yesterday.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What qualifies as one of the most successful middle schools? This doesn’t sound like Pyle or Westland

This sounds exactly like Pyle or Westland.

[Anonymous]

DC1 was in a magnet middle school that is considered rough and saw zero issues all three years beyond the typical talking back, not following directions or similar.

Two younger DCs were in a W middle school and the kids were constantly disrespecting teachers and they saw a lot of physical intimidation although they didn't see any kid hit a teacher. I thought it was just our experience but others parents have referred to similar experiences. I wondered if it was because the principals at the schools that are less wealthy are more empowered versus the wealthy ones where parents might intervene more and make it difficult for the admin to enforce discipline the best way?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm 53 and went to a rough HS out west.

I recall this one substitute, an elderly Indian man, whom everyone did not like. He was strict ( I guess that's the old school Asian thing) and had a thick accent, but I felt really sorry for him. One day, some kids took his car keys and hid them. I knew the kids who did it, and I told them to just give the keys back. But, they said no because the guy was a jerk.

I always tell my kids to be respectful of teachers, and to be more understanding of substitutes because many aren't real teachers and don't know how to manage a class.

I wonder if OP's dad knew how to de-escalate situations. I think a lot of older people assume that children will respect adults and authority figures, but that's not how it works today. If you try to confront the kid's bad behavior, or tell them what to do, some of these kids will push back, in this case, quite literally.

I think your dad is great to be a substitute (we need more), but I think as a sub, he should not be confrontational, at all, and just let the bad kids do whatever they want. Unfortunately, that's the way it is today because admins are too scared to do anything serious about these crappy kids.

Here’s the thing:

Kids in catholic school would respect the substitute.

Ask yourself why.

Hint:

It’s not because the catholic school kids are white. They aren’t. They are diverse.

It’s not because they are all affluent. They aren’t.

It’s because the school sets clear expectations and there are consequences. Even a modest infraction will result in parental engagement and punishment at school.

I strongly encourage the op to have her father email the County Exec, County Council, and mcps administration—including Nancy Navarro. They need visibility. There’s a small window to turn this around before it devolves any further.

Here the thing. Pubic school isn't allowed to expel (abandon) anyone. Catholics invented a religious rite for kicking out people they don't like.

But public schools are allowed to send badly behavior kids to alternative school placements. MCPS did this for years with Mark Twain. But then, because of "optics," they shut it down since the majority of kids sent there were black and brown.

So MCPS has an option and a solution, but they're removed that from their toolkit by choice. It's a self-inflicted wound.

Not self-inflicted. That was a direct result of No Child Left Behind and policies surrounding failing schools. You can't take all the kids who are badly behaved and don't show interest in learning and put them together in a school and then somehow expect that they will become better behaved and learn. There is no way Mark Twain would ever have met the learning growth requirements. Keeping it open would then open up MCPS to lawsuits that students place there were not receiving their "free appropriate public education".

I get the individualistic perspective where some feel like we should leave out kids who are badly behaved to focus on kids who want to learn. But as a society, that's a poor choice because those badly behaved kids with no education turn in to adults with few choices for supporting themselves who find it easier to engage in crime. Besides the economic impact of crime itself, society then spends a lot of money on policing, jails, and the legal system.

It would be less expensive overall as a society to invest more money into early childhood programs and better intervention programs for misbehaving kids, but there is no political will or societal interest in that. It's thinking too long term. Why spend money now when it will be 20 years before you start to see results? And that's why the school system's has no better options than the poor system we have currently.

Are you kidding? This is Montgomery County. One of the most progressively liberal counties in the country. Do you have any idea how much money we spend on early childhood programs and intervention?

Guess what? Any gains that are made in early childhood vanish by the time that kid gets to MS. It makes very little difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12879801/PICTURED-Four-Parkland-high-school-students-charged-brutal-beating-teen-shocking-video-showed-slammed-concrete-knocked-cold.html

I don’t want this sort of violence in mcps — see linked article from recent beat down by a handful of thugs who chased a teen into the school parking lot, picked him up and slammed him on the concrete, cracking his skull.

This is Parkland, FL — a seemingly affluent community with pockets of growing poverty.

But poverty and diversity really aren’t the issue. It’s behavior. It’s the byproduct of being raised without consequences.

Schools must play the role of setting boundaries and instilling respect and responsibility. Period.

And the juvenile justice system should be revamped for true rehabilitation.

For starters: put the kids in uniforms, decrease class sizes, recruit and retain excellent teachers, set clear rules, and enforce them. Call in parents for even minor offenses and have police and social involved.

Agree. SET CLEAR RULES AND ENFORCE THEM. Can someone in charge please make this happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Are you kidding? This is Montgomery County. One of the most progressively liberal counties in the country. Do you have any idea how much money we spend on early childhood programs and intervention?

Guess what? Any gains that are made in early childhood vanish by the time that kid gets to MS. It makes very little difference.

We don't even have universal pre-K.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Title one schools in affluent area hum…

I included the identifier in order to explain; my sister and I teach at Title I schools (as an aside, my school is a 5 min drive to pike and rose. So yes, we have Title I in affluent zones). At our schools, violence and assault is the norm.

I simply wanted to convey: my dad was NOT at a school like ours. The school he was at is one where this type of behavior would NOT be expected (it shouldn’t be expected anywhere, anyways). And it STILL happened.

That’s fascinating. I’ve worked in multiple Title I schools in some extremely challenging urban neighborhoods in Mid-Atlantic cities. In none of them were “violence and assault…the norm”. In any case, “norms” don’t always correlate perfectly with individual behavior.

Since you haven’t provided any details about what happened, perhaps your Dad isn’t cut out to be a sub — or would benefit from support and training in classroom management. Going from being a prosecutor to a job that requires the ability to immediately connect in positive ways with kids — both individually and in groups — is a huge shift, and might require a decidedly different skill set for everyone’s safety and well-being. Subbing is hard. Viewing it as “essentially volunteering “ despite presumably collecting a pay check might not be the best tack to take. Your conclusions about “absolute insanity and anarchy “ don’t bode well for our future as a community if people holding such views are teaching our kids.

DP but holy cow, you sound like you’re definitely one of the parents raising these little degenerates.

There is no excuse for kids shoving teachers, in any grade. Blaming the teacher is part of the mentality that got us started in this downward spiral in the first place.

PP you are most certainly one of the growing number of people in our society who have absolutely zero shame.

- I haven’t excused kids shoving teachers.
- I haven’t blamed any teachers for the problems.
- I have said — repeatedly — that substitute teachers would benefit from training and support.
- I, personally, have had training that includes safely intervening in crisis situations. Most subs get absolutely zero training,
and I have serious concerns about that.
- PP, actually, YOU are most certainly one of the growing number of people in our society who have absolutely zero shame.
You’re deliberately attributing to me things that I have not said — and running with it. That’s shameful — or at least it should be.

— I have made one consistent point: subs deserve training. That’s it.
And I have made this point as someone who has spent more time than most involved in defusing crisis situations in schools.

LOL you are either a troll or an idiot (or both, most likely). Your previous post was 100% blaming OP’s dad for lacking the skillset or training to not get shoved by a kid. You’re either backtracking now that you have been called out for your crappy take by multiple posters, or you are too stupid to realize that you don’t have to literally write “I blame OP’s Dad” for what you wrote in your post to be blaming OP’s dad.

I bet you are able to calm the wild kids down because they are briefly united in awed disbelief at how stupid you are.