Poor, greedy, coarse behavior - what would you call it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of our fears come from infancy. Sure, your siblings had help later on, but for a shield as an infant, you had all the resources available to you. They always had to share and defend. Likely always got hand me downs, were your little sibling at school.

And as far as offering their seats - I’m assuming you’re not in any way worse off so would need a seat moe that the people already seated?

and your complaint about chocolates is just weird. Are gifts not for the enjoyment? I mean, how lovely that you got your hoochie doc office a gift, but they probably also got 100 boxes of mid grade chocolates in the month of December. Your family felt these were so delicious and special they they actually *enjoyed* the gift you got them. You should be happy, but your own cloudy judgments of life are lending to your own unhappiness.m

I took it as two of them gobbled up an entire box that was meant for everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Scarcity mindset. And it’s the natural consequence of poverty, not something to look down your nose at them about. You sound really unpleasant.

NP. Thank you for identifying this so succinctly, and for noting the problem in the prior post.

There is something deeply unpleasant, moreso than anything described there, in looking down on people who still carry the with the residue of trauma and pain.

Those of us who managed to wash it off, or not be splashed with it despite the circumstances we stood in, have so much to be grateful for. And gratitude does not come with sneering at those who have less.

That's a great way of looking at it. I didn't consider my poor, white, lower-class relatives to be all awash in trauma and pain, but I bet they were! I was brought up to think it was stupidity and bad decisions compounded by being around more of same in the South.

Poverty comes with a lot of sh!t, both the literal and figurative kind. That's why people try to make money and climb out of it. It hurts.

I grew up with a scarcity mindset and have found what I bolded to be so true. I suspect OP has her own trauma and pain that she is dealing with. I've only recently realized in my own family of origin that when someone calls someone out for having poor manners or seems to be "putting on airs" it stems from their trauma and pain. I think everyone in my family of origin is aware that we didn't learn certain things that financially stable families did, and we feel shame when those differences are evident to others. It has been a huge revelation and helped me a lot with being patient and understanding.

You don't know me, but I'm sending you all the love I can through the internet.

If we can take this, hold it, and let it go without propagating it, we make the world better. Every little bit of that alchemy makes the world better. Best wishes to you.

Thank you. Your unexpected and kind post has me tearing up bit. 1,000% yes on not propagating this. That is my main focus with my kids. Bless you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of our fears come from infancy. Sure, your siblings had help later on, but for a shield as an infant, you had all the resources available to you. They always had to share and defend. Likely always got hand me downs, were your little sibling at school.

And as far as offering their seats - I’m assuming you’re not in any way worse off so would need a seat moe that the people already seated?

and your complaint about chocolates is just weird. Are gifts not for the enjoyment? I mean, how lovely that you got your hoochie doc office a gift, but they probably also got 100 boxes of mid grade chocolates in the month of December. Your family felt these were so delicious and special they they actually *enjoyed* the gift you got them. You should be happy, but your own cloudy judgments of life are lending to your own unhappiness.m

I took it as two of them gobbled up an entire box that was meant for everyone.

Well then isn’t the gift giver cheap for giving a gift that doesn’t really serve multiple people to multiple people. A box of chocolates for a group of adults?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hey, OP, I get it. I have 5 siblings and often it was fear of missing out/not getting any/ not feeling protected.

That said, I like at least half of what you described is simple manners. Not greeting people or not having enough seating for your guests? Sounds like manners weren't taught/learned.

You are right. We grew up dirt poor (the house floor was compacted dirt). Food and "best" everything in the house was always reserved for guests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Growing up my family was poor. When I was in college I began to notice certain behavior that could fall into the "not our kind dear".
At a social gathering where we met a director of a medical school, my younger siblings began pointing at various athletic sprains they'd experienced in their legs and seeking free medical advice.
My boyfriend's mother sent us a big box of Godiva chocolates. It was consumed by two of my sisters in one afternoon. It was as if they were afraid anyone else in the family would eat the pieces before they got to it. It was a big box. In my office this box would last a full day amongst 30 employees.
My husband, children and I showed up at my parents one holiday. It was a long drive, my siblings were already there to meet us. All the seats in the living room were filled, there was no place for us to sit. That wasn't so much the issue as the fact that no one stood up to say hello. Everyone stayed parked in their seat and stared at us. As if they were afraud to lose their place. Only my mother got up to give one of the 4 of my family a place to sit. I was very embarassed for my husband - he never said anything but I know he found it ungracious.

I don't really know what this sort of behavior is called but I've thought about it. There's another thread on here about subtle signs of class and I think these are the opposite but I don't know how to sum it with a phrase like that.

Lack of social teaching from parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey, OP, I get it. I have 5 siblings and often it was fear of missing out/not getting any/ not feeling protected.

That said, I like at least half of what you described is simple manners. Not greeting people or not having enough seating for your guests? Sounds like manners weren't taught/learned.

You are right. We grew up dirt poor (the house floor was compacted dirt). Food and "best" everything in the house was always reserved for guests.

So now you see yourself as the guest? Is that why you expect different treatment than everyone gets now?

[Anonymous]

I picture a lot of mouth breathers sitting in a room staring at each other. Why does everyone need to plop their fat asses in the same room? It’s a visit, and a gracious home would have people clustered in various rooms, visiting.

Not to mention the smart ones with their phones in the bathrooms, or out on walks. Sitting with family in chairs? Just no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of our fears come from infancy. Sure, your siblings had help later on, but for a shield as an infant, you had all the resources available to you. They always had to share and defend. Likely always got hand me downs, were your little sibling at school.

And as far as offering their seats - I’m assuming you’re not in any way worse off so would need a seat moe that the people already seated?

and your complaint about chocolates is just weird. Are gifts not for the enjoyment? I mean, how lovely that you got your hoochie doc office a gift, but they probably also got 100 boxes of mid grade chocolates in the month of December. Your family felt these were so delicious and special they they actually *enjoyed* the gift you got them. You should be happy, but your own cloudy judgments of life are lending to your own unhappiness.m

I took it as two of them gobbled up an entire box that was meant for everyone.

Well then isn’t the gift giver cheap for giving a gift that doesn’t really serve multiple people to multiple people. A box of chocolates for a group of adults?

Ok. I just would have taken one or two and offered them around to everyone if I opened it. I guess that’s just my family culture, we are sharers.

[Anonymous]

It sounds like you're describing scarcity mindset -- which is a mental shift due to the perception of scarce resources.

Our brains have limited bandwidth, so any attention afforded to one immediate problem cannot be used somewhere else.
The scarcity mindset is not always a bad thing; it was once an evolutionary advantage.
Adaptation... SURVIVAL.
When early humans lacked essential resources like food and shelter, this mindset helped them focus on acquiring what was most important.
Even today, it can help us concentrate on tasks in the face of deadlines.

However... the scarcity mindset makes escaping poverty extremely difficult.
You can’t invest in the future when your present needs are not met.
Limited money and extreme focus on the short-term make it hard to plan ahead.
It’s having to repeatedly buy cheap pairs of boots versus buying one expensive pair that will last your whole life.
While it makes sense at the time to buy daily necessities like food rather than pay bills, putting off those tasks ends up costing more in the long run when you have to pay late fees.
People are not poor because they make bad decisions; people remain poor because poverty inhibits their ability to make good decisions.

The effects of poverty and scarcity go beyond just the brain. The link between poverty and poor health is well-established, and to guarantee adequate healthcare to all Americans, we have to fix the economic conditions that make them prone to sickness in the first place. Chronic stress, often the result of constant financial worries, puts millions of Americans at increased risk for a litany of preventable illnesses like heart disease, depression, weight gain, and more.

Furthermore, kids who grow up in poverty suffer from the consequences their entire lives. Child poverty can impact brain development, which may lead to mood disorders such as depression and substance abuse later in life. In the United States, children in poverty have lower standardized test scores, are more likely to drop out of school, and are less likely to go to college.

And there’s an important — but hard to measure — effect on our communities too.
When we feel that money and goods are scarce, we start to think of our neighbors and fellow citizens as competitors rather than teammates united by our shared humanity.
When we believe that the economy is zero-sum, we also come to believe that helping another person comes at our own expense.
Helping our fellow humans escape poverty, debt, and misery becomes a disservice to the wealthy, rather than an expression of compassion and justice at the foundation of a society of equally free and valued people.


Read this article OP, I think it may help.

https://www.npr.org/2017/03/23/521195903/how-the-scarcity-mindset-can-make-problems-worses

[Anonymous]

PP, I say this gently: thank you for the link. Also, you realize "scarcity mindset" were literally the very first response, and that we've been discussing it since then, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like you're describing scarcity mindset -- which is a mental shift due to the perception of scarce resources.

Our brains have limited bandwidth, so any attention afforded to one immediate problem cannot be used somewhere else.
The scarcity mindset is not always a bad thing; it was once an evolutionary advantage.
Adaptation... SURVIVAL.
When early humans lacked essential resources like food and shelter, this mindset helped them focus on acquiring what was most important.
Even today, it can help us concentrate on tasks in the face of deadlines.

However... the scarcity mindset makes escaping poverty extremely difficult.

You can’t invest in the future when your present needs are not met.
Limited money and extreme focus on the short-term make it hard to plan ahead.

It’s having to repeatedly buy cheap pairs of boots versus buying one expensive pair that will last your whole life.

While it makes sense at the time to buy daily necessities like food rather than pay bills, putting off those tasks ends up costing more in the long run when you have to pay late fees.
People are not poor because they make bad decisions; people remain poor because poverty inhibits their ability to make good decisions.

The effects of poverty and scarcity go beyond just the brain. The link between poverty and poor health is well-established, and to guarantee adequate healthcare to all Americans, we have to fix the economic conditions that make them prone to sickness in the first place. Chronic stress, often the result of constant financial worries, puts millions of Americans at increased risk for a litany of preventable illnesses like heart disease, depression, weight gain, and more.

Furthermore, kids who grow up in poverty suffer from the consequences their entire lives. Child poverty can impact brain development, which may lead to mood disorders such as depression and substance abuse later in life. In the United States, children in poverty have lower standardized test scores, are more likely to drop out of school, and are less likely to go to college.

And there’s an important — but hard to measure — effect on our communities too.
When we feel that money and goods are scarce, we start to think of our neighbors and fellow citizens as competitors rather than teammates united by our shared humanity.
When we believe that the economy is zero-sum, we also come to believe that helping another person comes at our own expense.
Helping our fellow humans escape poverty, debt, and misery becomes a disservice to the wealthy, rather than an expression of compassion and justice at the foundation of a society of equally free and valued people.


Read this article OP, I think it may help.

https://www.npr.org/2017/03/23/521195903/how-the-scarcity-mindset-can-make-problems-worses

Great info -- especially the bolded areas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP, I say this gently: thank you for the link. Also, you realize "scarcity mindset" were literally the very first response, and that we've been discussing it since then, right?

Oh, I apologize.
I had a two minute break and hopped on DCUM... this was the first post I read.

That will teach me not to reply until I've read the rest of the responses, lol

Sorry again!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, I say this gently: thank you for the link. Also, you realize "scarcity mindset" were literally the very first response, and that we've been discussing it since then, right?

Oh, I apologize.
I had a two minute break and hopped on DCUM... this was the first post I read.

That will teach me not to reply until I've read the rest of the responses, lol

Sorry again!

I appreciated your post. I grew up with this mindset and have tried to explain the concept to people who look at me like I have a third head. It has been really fascinating over the years to realize many other people see the connections you so well explained.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, I say this gently: thank you for the link. Also, you realize "scarcity mindset" were literally the very first response, and that we've been discussing it since then, right?

Oh, I apologize.
I had a two minute break and hopped on DCUM... this was the first post I read.

That will teach me not to reply until I've read the rest of the responses, lol

Sorry again!

I appreciated your post. I grew up with this mindset and have tried to explain the concept to people who look at me like I have a third head. It has been really fascinating over the years to realize many other people eo ple see the connections you so well explained.

Thank you... I felt really silly after I went back to read the prior pomsts and saw that the sixemn etitled pages before mine were almost entirely devoted to scarcity mindset... in great detail, lol.
If you're trying to explain the mindset to others who don't understand it still, the boots example might help
(having to repeatedly buy cheap pairs of boots every single year of your life (because cheap boots will always fall apart by the end of the season, because they're not only cheap in price, more importantly they're cheaper in quality) versus buying one expensive pair of boots that will last throughout your lifetime).

[Anonymous]

* ugh, sorry for so many typos.