Fall 2022 Over/Under-Enrollment at FCPS High Schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps a good first step for FCPS before even entertaining rezoning or building additions would be to require all students to confirm their residency before they can register for classes.

I could be wrong, but I suspect there are many kids attending the over enrolled schools who do not actually live within the school zone.

Requiring a current utility bill every year at registration might fix the enrollment at schools in the 2-7% over capacity.

I'm a FCPS HS teacher. And a parent of a kid in a DC charter school. For my kid's enrollment, I have to prove residency EVERY year.

My students don't. And there are LOADS of them who cheat on residency to be in a "better" school. I don't get why FCPS doesn't verify every year.

Because your kid is in a charter and the parents have to apply in the first place so they will fill out a form every year to keep their spot. They were savvy and together enough to fill out the charter application in the first place. FCPS would have kids who never enroll because it is an actual public school that has to take everyone, so it would waste TONS of manpower and time not to mention months of a child’s education while the kids who really NEED to be in school aren’t enrolled.

Not really.

The kids would just need to go to their assigned school.

Usually it is kids who live in adjacent zone using someone else's address, grandma's address, or a former rental after they bought a much nicer house in an adjacent lower performing school.

Having to present a current utility bill to register just makes sense for the schools who are above capacity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps a good first step for FCPS before even entertaining rezoning or building additions would be to require all students to confirm their residency before they can register for classes.

I could be wrong, but I suspect there are many kids attending the over enrolled schools who do not actually live within the school zone.

Requiring a current utility bill every year at registration might fix the enrollment at schools in the 2-7% over capacity.

I'm a FCPS HS teacher. And a parent of a kid in a DC charter school. For my kid's enrollment, I have to prove residency EVERY year.

My students don't. And there are LOADS of them who cheat on residency to be in a "better" school. I don't get why FCPS doesn't verify every year.

I used to think this wasn’t such a big problem. Then I started volunteering at school and had to wait near the checkin desk. It was eye-opening and sad how some kids unintentionally outed themselves when explaining why they were tardy. It would be the kid w/o a parent coming in saying they’d got stuck in traffic on the beltway. Our pyramid isn’t near the beltway. The kids would then explain how they had moved from western Fairfax to places east … one came from east of the beltway in Maryland! I really felt for the kids who had no idea what they’d done, and the secretary trying to hide her astonished look.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps a good first step for FCPS before even entertaining rezoning or building additions would be to require all students to confirm their residency before they can register for classes.

I could be wrong, but I suspect there are many kids attending the over enrolled schools who do not actually live within the school zone.

Requiring a current utility bill every year at registration might fix the enrollment at schools in the 2-7% over capacity.

I'm a FCPS HS teacher. And a parent of a kid in a DC charter school. For my kid's enrollment, I have to prove residency EVERY year.

My students don't. And there are LOADS of them who cheat on residency to be in a "better" school. I don't get why FCPS doesn't verify every year.

Because your kid is in a charter and the parents have to apply in the first place so they will fill out a form every year to keep their spot. They were savvy and together enough to fill out the charter application in the first place. FCPS would have kids who never enroll because it is an actual public school that has to take everyone, so it would waste TONS of manpower and time not to mention months of a child’s education while the kids who really NEED to be in school aren’t enrolled.

Not really.

The kids would just need to go to their assigned school.

Usually it is kids who live in adjacent zone using someone else's address, grandma's address, or a former rental after they bought a much nicer house in an adjacent lower performing school.

Having to present a current utility bill to register just makes sense for the schools who are above capacity.

Well I’m glad that isn’t the rule as I can see many ways this rule would keep lower income families from bringing their kids to school on time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Isn't Pekarsky in the Chantilly pyramid? Tholen is a TJ/Langley parent, and really only cares about those two schools, but I thought Pekarsky had kids in the Chantilly pyramid.

The School Board as a whole has the attention span of a gnat when it comes to operations and facilities. It doesn't get their juices going like renaming schools or telling Youngkin to shove it when it comes to gender issues.

I doubt the FCPS school board will do anything about Chantilly, a long term problem. Frankly, I was shocked that this board allowed a boundary change from Mclean to Langley - the Shouse Village area that was an island. That was for 2022-23. The only other boundary change in this huge county wide school division in my recent memory was for 2021-22 for some elementary schools in the Justice pyramid https://www.fcps.edu/about-fcps/facilities-planning-future/school-boundary-adjustments/proposed-justice-pyramid

As part of the FCPS legislative package the SB intends to lobby for boundary processes and school assignments by address that result in demographic integration. This is referenced in the package https://cecr.ed.psu.edu/sites/default/files/School_Segregation_by_Boundary_Line_in_Virginia_Nov_2020.pdf
" Establish an office or department in VDOE to support voluntary integration and
reduce segregation within and between schools" Could mean irregular or non geographic boundaries. FCPS SB's did seem to have an unwritten rule - nothing out of Langley if it went to a Herndon or South Lakes pyramid school. Under Tholen, new resdiences in Dranesville bucked the precedent and were sent to Herndon pyramid. Gibsion, a prior SB member-Hunter Mill- had 1 Reston new dev flipped to Forest Edge1st marketed as Langley then Herndon pyramids], 1 to Forestville/Langley, 1 to Forest Edge.

That last one was interesting since the new road connected to a Langley dev and it took the county snow plow guys to remove the concrete barricade. All politicians and cronies on committees were Democrats. I don't know the political affiliation of the snow plow or VDOT guys.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps a good first step for FCPS before even entertaining rezoning or building additions would be to require all students to confirm their residency before they can register for classes.

I could be wrong, but I suspect there are many kids attending the over enrolled schools who do not actually live within the school zone.

Requiring a current utility bill every year at registration might fix the enrollment at schools in the 2-7% over capacity.

I'm a FCPS HS teacher. And a parent of a kid in a DC charter school. For my kid's enrollment, I have to prove residency EVERY year.

My students don't. And there are LOADS of them who cheat on residency to be in a "better" school. I don't get why FCPS doesn't verify every year.

Because your kid is in a charter and the parents have to apply in the first place so they will fill out a form every year to keep their spot. They were savvy and together enough to fill out the charter application in the first place. FCPS would have kids who never enroll because it is an actual public school that has to take everyone, so it would waste TONS of manpower and time not to mention months of a child’s education while the kids who really NEED to be in school aren’t enrolled.

Not really.

The kids would just need to go to their assigned school.

Usually it is kids who live in adjacent zone using someone else's address, grandma's address, or a former rental after they bought a much nicer house in an adjacent lower performing school.

Having to present a current utility bill to register just makes sense for the schools who are above capacity.

Well I’m glad that isn’t the rule as I can see many ways this rule would keep lower income families from bringing their kids to school on time.

Why would going to the zoned school in their neighborhood instead of a non zoned school miles away make lower income kids tardy?

The kids whose parents are falsifying residency are usually not lower income, fyi.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All three of the seriously overcrowded high schools have large Asian populations. It’s another example of the disrespect shown towards that community by the School Board. Maybe two Asian parents will step up to challenge Pekarsky and Tholen.

Frankly, I'm reasonably certain that the Asian population at those schools would be the first group to vehemently oppose any feasible solutions that would reduce overcrowding. For example, Herndon and Westfield are sitting at 93%. It would be reasonable to change some boundaries around Centreville and Chantilly so that Herndon and Westfield hit about 105% capacity which seems to be a fully acceptable over-enrollment rate. But, of course, you'll get very vocal opposition to that.

Generally these families (not only Asians specifically anymore) have made it clear they would much prefer to stay at an overcrowded school than go to a less crowded "bad" school. What they really want are renovations and expansions so that they can stay at their preferred school, while demanding reduced class sizes, while all of us other taxpayers foot the bill for their gargantuan private-esque school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All three of the seriously overcrowded high schools have large Asian populations. It’s another example of the disrespect shown towards that community by the School Board. Maybe two Asian parents will step up to challenge Pekarsky and Tholen.

Frankly, I'm reasonably certain that the Asian population at those schools would be the first group to vehemently oppose any feasible solutions that would reduce overcrowding. For example, Herndon and Westfield are sitting at 93%. It would be reasonable to change some boundaries around Centreville and Chantilly so that Herndon and Westfield hit about 105% capacity which seems to be a fully acceptable over-enrollment rate. But, of course, you'll get very vocal opposition to that.

Generally these families (not only Asians specifically anymore) have made it clear they would much prefer to stay at an overcrowded school than go to a less crowded "bad" school. What they really want are renovations and expansions so that they can stay at their preferred school, while demanding reduced class sizes, while all of us other taxpayers foot the bill for their gargantuan private-esque school.

What makes a school "gargantuan private-esque"?

If "gargantuan" is an issue, someone should have stepped in before Corbett Sanders was allowed to gobble up money to build West Potomac out to 3000 seats.

If "private-esque" is an issue, you might want to start by looking at Langley's demographics and Tholen's recent cherry-picking of single-family McLean neighborhoods (but no Tysons apartments).

Otherwise, I think they need to do something for Centreville, Chantilly, and McLean sooner rather than later. As for the western HS, if it were an AP school, and it wasn't drawing primarily from the poorest areas now assigned to Herndon and South Lakes, people would be more receptive to rezoning. There are plenty of Asian families in Loudoun and they have accepted the frequent redistricting there as new schools were built.

The problem is the School Board is too political and consumed with the social issues to pay attention to the basics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All three of the seriously overcrowded high schools have large Asian populations. It’s another example of the disrespect shown towards that community by the School Board. Maybe two Asian parents will step up to challenge Pekarsky and Tholen.

Frankly, I'm reasonably certain that the Asian population at those schools would be the first group to vehemently oppose any feasible solutions that would reduce overcrowding. For example, Herndon and Westfield are sitting at 93%. It would be reasonable to change some boundaries around Centreville and Chantilly so that Herndon and Westfield hit about 105% capacity which seems to be a fully acceptable over-enrollment rate. But, of course, you'll get very vocal opposition to that.

Generally these families (not only Asians specifically anymore) have made it clear they would much prefer to stay at an overcrowded school than go to a less crowded "bad" school. What they really want are renovations and expansions so that they can stay at their preferred school, while demanding reduced class sizes, while all of us other taxpayers foot the bill for their gargantuan private-esque school.

Chantilly is “privatesque”? Please elaborate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All three of the seriously overcrowded high schools have large Asian populations. It’s another example of the disrespect shown towards that community by the School Board. Maybe two Asian parents will step up to challenge Pekarsky and Tholen.

Frankly, I'm reasonably certain that the Asian population at those schools would be the first group to vehemently oppose any feasible solutions that would reduce overcrowding. For example, Herndon and Westfield are sitting at 93%. It would be reasonable to change some boundaries around Centreville and Chantilly so that Herndon and Westfield hit about 105% capacity which seems to be a fully acceptable over-enrollment rate. But, of course, you'll get very vocal opposition to that.

Generally these families (not only Asians specifically anymore) have made it clear they would much prefer to stay at an overcrowded school than go to a less crowded "bad" school. What they really want are renovations and expansions so that they can stay at their preferred school, while demanding reduced class sizes, while all of us other taxpayers foot the bill for their gargantuan private-esque school.

What makes a school "gargantuan private-esque"?

If "gargantuan" is an issue, someone should have stepped in before Corbett Sanders was allowed to gobble up money to build West Potomac out to 3000 seats.

If "private-esque" is an issue, you might want to start by looking at Langley's demographics and Tholen's recent cherry-picking of single-family McLean neighborhoods (but no Tysons apartments).

Otherwise, I think they need to do something for Centreville, Chantilly, and McLean sooner rather than later. As for the western HS, if it were an AP school, and it wasn't drawing primarily from the poorest areas now assigned to Herndon and South Lakes, people would be more receptive to rezoning. There are plenty of Asian families in Loudoun and they have accepted the frequent redistricting there as new schools were built.

The problem is the School Board is too political and consumed with the social issues to pay attention to the basics.

My point stands. It is understood that rezoning is only amenable to the western population if certain thresholds for SES and demographics are met at the new school, wheher it's through boundary changes or a brand new building. Hence why I stated that their only acceptable outcome puts them closer to resembling a private school than the FCPS average of 30% FARMs.

Langley of course already is guilty of this but I leave them out not to derail the conversation. Boundary changes are the easiest, cheapest, and quickest temporary solution for the west. What other solution would you offer to ease Chantilly/Centreville overcrowding right now and not 10 years from now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All three of the seriously overcrowded high schools have large Asian populations. It’s another example of the disrespect shown towards that community by the School Board. Maybe two Asian parents will step up to challenge Pekarsky and Tholen.

Frankly, I'm reasonably certain that the Asian population at those schools would be the first group to vehemently oppose any feasible solutions that would reduce overcrowding. For example, Herndon and Westfield are sitting at 93%. It would be reasonable to change some boundaries around Centreville and Chantilly so that Herndon and Westfield hit about 105% capacity which seems to be a fully acceptable over-enrollment rate. But, of course, you'll get very vocal opposition to that.

Generally these families (not only Asians specifically anymore) have made it clear they would much prefer to stay at an overcrowded school than go to a less crowded "bad" school. What they really want are renovations and expansions so that they can stay at their preferred school, while demanding reduced class sizes, while all of us other taxpayers foot the bill for their gargantuan private-esque school.

What makes a school "gargantuan private-esque"?

If "gargantuan" is an issue, someone should have stepped in before Corbett Sanders was allowed to gobble up money to build West Potomac out to 3000 seats.

If "private-esque" is an issue, you might want to start by looking at Langley's demographics and Tholen's recent cherry-picking of single-family McLean neighborhoods (but no Tysons apartments).

Otherwise, I think they need to do something for Centreville, Chantilly, and McLean sooner rather than later. As for the western HS, if it were an AP school, and it wasn't drawing primarily from the poorest areas now assigned to Herndon and South Lakes, people would be more receptive to rezoning. There are plenty of Asian families in Loudoun and they have accepted the frequent redistricting there as new schools were built.

The problem is the School Board is too political and consumed with the social issues to pay attention to the basics.

My point stands. It is understood that rezoning is only amenable to the western population if certain thresholds for SES and demographics are met at the new school, wheher it's through boundary changes or a brand new building. Hence why I stated that their only acceptable outcome puts them closer to resembling a private school than the FCPS average of 30% FARMs.

Langley of course already is guilty of this but I leave them out not to derail the conversation. Boundary changes are the easiest, cheapest, and quickest temporary solution for the west. What other solution would you offer to ease Chantilly/Centreville overcrowding right now and not 10 years from now?

Confirm residency of all students before they are allowed to register for classes by requiring a utility bill from within the last 2 months.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps a good first step for FCPS before even entertaining rezoning or building additions would be to require all students to confirm their residency before they can register for classes.

I could be wrong, but I suspect there are many kids attending the over enrolled schools who do not actually live within the school zone.

Requiring a current utility bill every year at registration might fix the enrollment at schools in the 2-7% over capacity.

I'm a FCPS HS teacher. And a parent of a kid in a DC charter school. For my kid's enrollment, I have to prove residency EVERY year.

My students don't. And there are LOADS of them who cheat on residency to be in a "better" school. I don't get why FCPS doesn't verify every year.

Because your kid is in a charter and the parents have to apply in the first place so they will fill out a form every year to keep their spot. They were savvy and together enough to fill out the charter application in the first place. FCPS would have kids who never enroll because it is an actual public school that has to take everyone, so it would waste TONS of manpower and time not to mention months of a child’s education while the kids who really NEED to be in school aren’t enrolled.

Not really.

The kids would just need to go to their assigned school.

Usually it is kids who live in adjacent zone using someone else's address, grandma's address, or a former rental after they bought a much nicer house in an adjacent lower performing school.

Having to present a current utility bill to register just makes sense for the schools who are above capacity.

Well I’m glad that isn’t the rule as I can see many ways this rule would keep lower income families from bringing their kids to school on time.

Why would going to the zoned school in their neighborhood instead of a non zoned school miles away make lower income kids tardy?

The kids whose parents are falsifying residency are usually not lower income, fyi.

The PP was taking about requiring children to submit new documents every year to show residency in that district as her child does in a dc charter. I didn’t mean late to school I meant that if low income kids had to reprove their residency every year the low income kids would be late registering and would miss a few weeks of school at the beginning of each year. I have a lot of experience with that population and they have a hard time registering on time frequently when it is only required once.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All three of the seriously overcrowded high schools have large Asian populations. It’s another example of the disrespect shown towards that community by the School Board. Maybe two Asian parents will step up to challenge Pekarsky and Tholen.

Frankly, I'm reasonably certain that the Asian population at those schools would be the first group to vehemently oppose any feasible solutions that would reduce overcrowding. For example, Herndon and Westfield are sitting at 93%. It would be reasonable to change some boundaries around Centreville and Chantilly so that Herndon and Westfield hit about 105% capacity which seems to be a fully acceptable over-enrollment rate. But, of course, you'll get very vocal opposition to that.

Generally these families (not only Asians specifically anymore) have made it clear they would much prefer to stay at an overcrowded school than go to a less crowded "bad" school. What they really want are renovations and expansions so that they can stay at their preferred school, while demanding reduced class sizes, while all of us other taxpayers foot the bill for their gargantuan private-esque school.

What makes a school "gargantuan private-esque"?

If "gargantuan" is an issue, someone should have stepped in before Corbett Sanders was allowed to gobble up money to build West Potomac out to 3000 seats.

If "private-esque" is an issue, you might want to start by looking at Langley's demographics and Tholen's recent cherry-picking of single-family McLean neighborhoods (but no Tysons apartments).

Otherwise, I think they need to do something for Centreville, Chantilly, and McLean sooner rather than later. As for the western HS, if it were an AP school, and it wasn't drawing primarily from the poorest areas now assigned to Herndon and South Lakes, people would be more receptive to rezoning. There are plenty of Asian families in Loudoun and they have accepted the frequent redistricting there as new schools were built.

The problem is the School Board is too political and consumed with the social issues to pay attention to the basics.

My point stands. It is understood that rezoning is only amenable to the western population if certain thresholds for SES and demographics are met at the new school, wheher it's through boundary changes or a brand new building. Hence why I stated that their only acceptable outcome puts them closer to resembling a private school than the FCPS average of 30% FARMs.

Langley of course already is guilty of this but I leave them out not to derail the conversation. Boundary changes are the easiest, cheapest, and quickest temporary solution for the west. What other solution would you offer to ease Chantilly/Centreville overcrowding right now and not 10 years from now?

"It is understood"? By whom? And what are these "certain thresholds"?

In any event, neglecting the situation as this School Board and its predecessors have done for years on the grounds that Asians don't mind overcrowding isn't going to fly next year. Stella Pekarsky and Elaine Tholen are widely reviled now in their districts, including among many Democrats, for being so inept.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All three of the seriously overcrowded high schools have large Asian populations. It’s another example of the disrespect shown towards that community by the School Board. Maybe two Asian parents will step up to challenge Pekarsky and Tholen.

Frankly, I'm reasonably certain that the Asian population at those schools would be the first group to vehemently oppose any feasible solutions that would reduce overcrowding. For example, Herndon and Westfield are sitting at 93%. It would be reasonable to change some boundaries around Centreville and Chantilly so that Herndon and Westfield hit about 105% capacity which seems to be a fully acceptable over-enrollment rate. But, of course, you'll get very vocal opposition to that.

Generally these families (not only Asians specifically anymore) have made it clear they would much prefer to stay at an overcrowded school than go to a less crowded "bad" school. What they really want are renovations and expansions so that they can stay at their preferred school, while demanding reduced class sizes, while all of us other taxpayers foot the bill for their gargantuan private-esque school.

FCPS sends out two mailings a year with mail return in order to try to catch boundary cheaters. It works if you've sold your house and moved somewhere, but it doesn't work to catch the people that are using a family member's address.
What makes a school "gargantuan private-esque"?

If "gargantuan" is an issue, someone should have stepped in before Corbett Sanders was allowed to gobble up money to build West Potomac out to 3000 seats.

If "private-esque" is an issue, you might want to start by looking at Langley's demographics and Tholen's recent cherry-picking of single-family McLean neighborhoods (but no Tysons apartments).

Otherwise, I think they need to do something for Centreville, Chantilly, and McLean sooner rather than later. As for the western HS, if it were an AP school, and it wasn't drawing primarily from the poorest areas now assigned to Herndon and South Lakes, people would be more receptive to rezoning. There are plenty of Asian families in Loudoun and they have accepted the frequent redistricting there as new schools were built.

The problem is the School Board is too political and consumed with the social issues to pay attention to the basics.

My point stands. It is understood that rezoning is only amenable to the western population if certain thresholds for SES and demographics are met at the new school, wheher it's through boundary changes or a brand new building. Hence why I stated that their only acceptable outcome puts them closer to resembling a private school than the FCPS average of 30% FARMs.

Langley of course already is guilty of this but I leave them out not to derail the conversation. Boundary changes are the easiest, cheapest, and quickest temporary solution for the west. What other solution would you offer to ease Chantilly/Centreville overcrowding right now and not 10 years from now?

Confirm residency of all students before they are allowed to register for classes by requiring a utility bill from within the last 2 months.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps a good first step for FCPS before even entertaining rezoning or building additions would be to require all students to confirm their residency before they can register for classes.

I could be wrong, but I suspect there are many kids attending the over enrolled schools who do not actually live within the school zone.

Requiring a current utility bill every year at registration might fix the enrollment at schools in the 2-7% over capacity.

I'm a FCPS HS teacher. And a parent of a kid in a DC charter school. For my kid's enrollment, I have to prove residency EVERY year.

My students don't. And there are LOADS of them who cheat on residency to be in a "better" school. I don't get why FCPS doesn't verify every year.

I used to think this wasn’t such a big problem. Then I started volunteering at school and had to wait near the checkin desk. It was eye-opening and sad how some kids unintentionally outed themselves when explaining why they were tardy. It would be the kid w/o a parent coming in saying they’d got stuck in traffic on the beltway. Our pyramid isn’t near the beltway. The kids would then explain how they had moved from western Fairfax to places east … one came from east of the beltway in Maryland! I really felt for the kids who had no idea what they’d done, and the secretary trying to hide her astonished look.

I don’t doubt there are cheaters, but many kids live in two households- one of which might be out of boundary and fairly far away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps a good first step for FCPS before even entertaining rezoning or building additions would be to require all students to confirm their residency before they can register for classes.

I could be wrong, but I suspect there are many kids attending the over enrolled schools who do not actually live within the school zone.

Requiring a current utility bill every year at registration might fix the enrollment at schools in the 2-7% over capacity.

I'm a FCPS HS teacher. And a parent of a kid in a DC charter school. For my kid's enrollment, I have to prove residency EVERY year.

My students don't. And there are LOADS of them who cheat on residency to be in a "better" school. I don't get why FCPS doesn't verify every year.

I used to think this wasn’t such a big problem. Then I started volunteering at school and had to wait near the checkin desk. It was eye-opening and sad how some kids unintentionally outed themselves when explaining why they were tardy. It would be the kid w/o a parent coming in saying they’d got stuck in traffic on the beltway. Our pyramid isn’t near the beltway. The kids would then explain how they had moved from western Fairfax to places east … one came from east of the beltway in Maryland! I really felt for the kids who had no idea what they’d done, and the secretary trying to hide her astonished look.

I don’t doubt there are cheaters, but many kids live in two households- one of which might be out of boundary and fairly far away.

In addition, FCPS does mailings w return service twice a year to catch people who have moved and are no longer in boundary. It probably doesnt catch those that are claiming relatives addresses as primary, however.