Fall 2022 Over/Under-Enrollment at FCPS High Schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regardless of the school’s name, an FCPS high school with an IB program that produces only four IB diploma recipients in a graduating class needs to pull the plug on IB. It’s nuts they think they are honoring John Lewis by associating his name with such poor achievement.

Achievement is not measured by IB diplomas alone.

And the faux “concern” for Lewis is pretty transparent.

C’mon. You know a high school IB program at a school with 400 or so seniors and only 4 IB diploma graduates sucks big time.

How many IB classes are being taken? How many juniors and seniors take 1, 2, 3, 4 or more IB classes during high school? Looking at IB diplomas awarded is only one metric and is not the best metric to use. Should FCPS high schools no longer offer AP classes if only have single-digit graduates with the Capstone?

One percent of graduates earning the AP Capstone shows terrible results at the top end, which likely are reflected in the other lower level metrics that you mentioned. And AP is no better for a la carte courses if that is the way they are going to be taken. AP is also less expensive. FCPS is not obligated to maintain two different sets of advanced courses. Simplify everything in the county by making all schools AP.

I would support a School Board candidate that pledged to take a serious look at IB. Unfortunately there are a few members who just won't give IB up.

Fixed the bolded for you.

DP, but that "fix" seems off. AP Capstone are two AP courses, but they aren't the centerpiece of the AP program in the same way the "IB diploma" has been the focus of an IB program for decades. Langley just started to offer one of the Capstone courses, and Woodson doesn't appear to offer Capstone yet at all.

But go ahead and try to muddy the water. It won't make IB, or Lewis, look one bit better.

My now college kid was recommended for capstone along with a lot of other kids.

Mine did not want to take it because that meant she would not be able to take both advanced theater and advanced chorus, so it was a hard pass for our family.

Most of the other kids invited felt the same way. They didn't want to drop their performing arts classes, or their extra math classes, or their academy classes.

But all of these kids graduated with many AP college credits, most of them are either graduating from college a year early due to AP classe. Or the AP classes gave them enough room in their schedule to double major in two rigorous programs.

The ability to knock out a demester or year of college is proceless for lower income families.

Literally everything here is true of IB and the reason kids might not pursue the full IB diploma.

Everything.

Nope.

Capstone consists of two AP courses. You could easily have a conflict between Capstone and an elective like theatre or chorus, whereas students who really wanted to do the full IB programme could take the elective and still find a way to meet their distribution requirements.

Also, AP is more flexible, because courses are 1-year courses, whereas many IB courses are on a two-year track. So it's more likely students will commit to take the AP courses and then get college credit for them.

Plus, AP is less expensive to taxpayers than IB programmes that demand dedicated IB coordinators and impose a bunch of miscellaneous training costs and fees on schools.

It's no surprise that, relatively speaking, AP schools tend to be at or above capacity, whereas IB schools are more likely to struggle to fill seats. Or that FCPS then just leaves them under-enrolled, because they know few parents at AP schools would put up getting moved into an IB school without a fight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regardless of the school’s name, an FCPS high school with an IB program that produces only four IB diploma recipients in a graduating class needs to pull the plug on IB. It’s nuts they think they are honoring John Lewis by associating his name with such poor achievement.

Achievement is not measured by IB diplomas alone.

And the faux “concern” for Lewis is pretty transparent.

C’mon. You know a high school IB program at a school with 400 or so seniors and only 4 IB diploma graduates sucks big time.

How many IB classes are being taken? How many juniors and seniors take 1, 2, 3, 4 or more IB classes during high school? Looking at IB diplomas awarded is only one metric and is not the best metric to use. Should FCPS high schools no longer offer AP classes if only have single-digit graduates with the Capstone?

One percent of graduates earning the AP Capstone shows terrible results at the top end, which likely are reflected in the other lower level metrics that you mentioned. And AP is no better for a la carte courses if that is the way they are going to be taken. AP is also less expensive. FCPS is not obligated to maintain two different sets of advanced courses. Simplify everything in the county by making all schools AP.

I would support a School Board candidate that pledged to take a serious look at IB. Unfortunately there are a few members who just won't give IB up.

Fixed the bolded for you.

DP, but that "fix" seems off. AP Capstone are two AP courses, but they aren't the centerpiece of the AP program in the same way the "IB diploma" has been the focus of an IB program for decades. Langley just started to offer one of the Capstone courses, and Woodson doesn't appear to offer Capstone yet at all.

But go ahead and try to muddy the water. It won't make IB, or Lewis, look one bit better.

My now college kid was recommended for capstone along with a lot of other kids.

Mine did not want to take it because that meant she would not be able to take both advanced theater and advanced chorus, so it was a hard pass for our family.

Most of the other kids invited felt the same way. They didn't want to drop their performing arts classes, or their extra math classes, or their academy classes.

But all of these kids graduated with many AP college credits, most of them are either graduating from college a year early due to AP classe. Or the AP classes gave them enough room in their schedule to double major in two rigorous programs.

The ability to knock out a demester or year of college is proceless for lower income families.

Literally everything here is true of IB and the reason kids might not pursue the full IB diploma.

Everything.

Nope.

Capstone consists of two AP courses. You could easily have a conflict between Capstone and an elective like theatre or chorus, whereas students who really wanted to do the full IB programme could take the elective and still find a way to meet their distribution requirements.

This, of course, is a lie.

Also, AP is more flexible, because courses are 1-year courses, whereas many IB courses are on a two-year track. So it's more likely students will commit to take the AP courses and then get college credit for them.

More lies. Two year IB courses are in things like math, English, history, and language. Your position is that AP students don’t take 2 years of those courses?

Please.

Plus, AP is less expensive to taxpayers than IB programmes that demand dedicated IB coordinators and impose a bunch of miscellaneous training costs and fees on schools.

Yes, we know you want to cut funds from low SES schools. Golly, wonder where you might want those funds to go?

It's no surprise that, relatively speaking, AP schools tend to be at or above capacity, whereas IB schools are more likely to struggle to fill seats. Or that FCPS then just leaves them under-enrolled, because they know few parents at AP schools would put up getting moved into an IB school without a fight.

Per the first post in this thread, 2 of the top 4 overenrolled schools are IB.

But otherwise, spot on!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regardless of the school’s name, an FCPS high school with an IB program that produces only four IB diploma recipients in a graduating class needs to pull the plug on IB. It’s nuts they think they are honoring John Lewis by associating his name with such poor achievement.

Achievement is not measured by IB diplomas alone.

And the faux “concern” for Lewis is pretty transparent.

C’mon. You know a high school IB program at a school with 400 or so seniors and only 4 IB diploma graduates sucks big time.

How many IB classes are being taken? How many juniors and seniors take 1, 2, 3, 4 or more IB classes during high school? Looking at IB diplomas awarded is only one metric and is not the best metric to use. Should FCPS high schools no longer offer AP classes if only have single-digit graduates with the Capstone?

One percent of graduates earning the AP Capstone shows terrible results at the top end, which likely are reflected in the other lower level metrics that you mentioned. And AP is no better for a la carte courses if that is the way they are going to be taken. AP is also less expensive. FCPS is not obligated to maintain two different sets of advanced courses. Simplify everything in the county by making all schools AP.

I would support a School Board candidate that pledged to take a serious look at IB. Unfortunately there are a few members who just won't give IB up.

Fixed the bolded for you.

DP, but that "fix" seems off. AP Capstone are two AP courses, but they aren't the centerpiece of the AP program in the same way the "IB diploma" has been the focus of an IB program for decades. Langley just started to offer one of the Capstone courses, and Woodson doesn't appear to offer Capstone yet at all.

But go ahead and try to muddy the water. It won't make IB, or Lewis, look one bit better.

My now college kid was recommended for capstone along with a lot of other kids.

Mine did not want to take it because that meant she would not be able to take both advanced theater and advanced chorus, so it was a hard pass for our family.

Most of the other kids invited felt the same way. They didn't want to drop their performing arts classes, or their extra math classes, or their academy classes.

But all of these kids graduated with many AP college credits, most of them are either graduating from college a year early due to AP classe. Or the AP classes gave them enough room in their schedule to double major in two rigorous programs.

The ability to knock out a demester or year of college is proceless for lower income families.

Literally everything here is true of IB and the reason kids might not pursue the full IB diploma.

Everything.

Nope.

Capstone consists of two AP courses. You could easily have a conflict between Capstone and an elective like theatre or chorus, whereas students who really wanted to do the full IB programme could take the elective and still find a way to meet their distribution requirements.

This, of course, is a lie.

Also, AP is more flexible, because courses are 1-year courses, whereas many IB courses are on a two-year track. So it's more likely students will commit to take the AP courses and then get college credit for them.

More lies. Two year IB courses are in things like math, English, history, and language. Your position is that AP students don’t take 2 years of those courses?

Please.

Plus, AP is less expensive to taxpayers than IB programmes that demand dedicated IB coordinators and impose a bunch of miscellaneous training costs and fees on schools.

Yes, we know you want to cut funds from low SES schools. Golly, wonder where you might want those funds to go?

It's no surprise that, relatively speaking, AP schools tend to be at or above capacity, whereas IB schools are more likely to struggle to fill seats. Or that FCPS then just leaves them under-enrolled, because they know few parents at AP schools would put up getting moved into an IB school without a fight.

Per the first post in this thread, 2 of the top 4 overenrolled schools are IB.

But otherwise, spot on!

Per the first post in the thread, the top 4 overenrolled schools (Centreville, Chantilly, McLean, and West Springfield) are all AP.

Perhaps you’re not from around here? That might explain a lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regardless of the school’s name, an FCPS high school with an IB program that produces only four IB diploma recipients in a graduating class needs to pull the plug on IB. It’s nuts they think they are honoring John Lewis by associating his name with such poor achievement.

Achievement is not measured by IB diplomas alone.

And the faux “concern” for Lewis is pretty transparent.

C’mon. You know a high school IB program at a school with 400 or so seniors and only 4 IB diploma graduates sucks big time.

How many IB classes are being taken? How many juniors and seniors take 1, 2, 3, 4 or more IB classes during high school? Looking at IB diplomas awarded is only one metric and is not the best metric to use. Should FCPS high schools no longer offer AP classes if only have single-digit graduates with the Capstone?

One percent of graduates earning the AP Capstone shows terrible results at the top end, which likely are reflected in the other lower level metrics that you mentioned. And AP is no better for a la carte courses if that is the way they are going to be taken. AP is also less expensive. FCPS is not obligated to maintain two different sets of advanced courses. Simplify everything in the county by making all schools AP.

I would support a School Board candidate that pledged to take a serious look at IB. Unfortunately there are a few members who just won't give IB up.

Fixed the bolded for you.

DP, but that "fix" seems off. AP Capstone are two AP courses, but they aren't the centerpiece of the AP program in the same way the "IB diploma" has been the focus of an IB program for decades. Langley just started to offer one of the Capstone courses, and Woodson doesn't appear to offer Capstone yet at all.

But go ahead and try to muddy the water. It won't make IB, or Lewis, look one bit better.

My now college kid was recommended for capstone along with a lot of other kids.

Mine did not want to take it because that meant she would not be able to take both advanced theater and advanced chorus, so it was a hard pass for our family.

Most of the other kids invited felt the same way. They didn't want to drop their performing arts classes, or their extra math classes, or their academy classes.

But all of these kids graduated with many AP college credits, most of them are either graduating from college a year early due to AP classe. Or the AP classes gave them enough room in their schedule to double major in two rigorous programs.

The ability to knock out a demester or year of college is proceless for lower income families.

Literally everything here is true of IB and the reason kids might not pursue the full IB diploma.

Everything.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regardless of the school’s name, an FCPS high school with an IB program that produces only four IB diploma recipients in a graduating class needs to pull the plug on IB. It’s nuts they think they are honoring John Lewis by associating his name with such poor achievement.

Achievement is not measured by IB diplomas alone.

And the faux “concern” for Lewis is pretty transparent.

C’mon. You know a high school IB program at a school with 400 or so seniors and only 4 IB diploma graduates sucks big time.

How many IB classes are being taken? How many juniors and seniors take 1, 2, 3, 4 or more IB classes during high school? Looking at IB diplomas awarded is only one metric and is not the best metric to use. Should FCPS high schools no longer offer AP classes if only have single-digit graduates with the Capstone?

One percent of graduates earning the AP Capstone shows terrible results at the top end, which likely are reflected in the other lower level metrics that you mentioned. And AP is no better for a la carte courses if that is the way they are going to be taken. AP is also less expensive. FCPS is not obligated to maintain two different sets of advanced courses. Simplify everything in the county by making all schools AP.

I would support a School Board candidate that pledged to take a serious look at IB. Unfortunately there are a few members who just won't give IB up.

Fixed the bolded for you.

DP, but that "fix" seems off. AP Capstone are two AP courses, but they aren't the centerpiece of the AP program in the same way the "IB diploma" has been the focus of an IB program for decades. Langley just started to offer one of the Capstone courses, and Woodson doesn't appear to offer Capstone yet at all.

But go ahead and try to muddy the water. It won't make IB, or Lewis, look one bit better.

My now college kid was recommended for capstone along with a lot of other kids.

Mine did not want to take it because that meant she would not be able to take both advanced theater and advanced chorus, so it was a hard pass for our family.

Most of the other kids invited felt the same way. They didn't want to drop their performing arts classes, or their extra math classes, or their academy classes.

But all of these kids graduated with many AP college credits, most of them are either graduating from college a year early due to AP classe. Or the AP classes gave them enough room in their schedule to double major in two rigorous programs.

The ability to knock out a demester or year of college is proceless for lower income families.

Literally everything here is true of IB and the reason kids might not pursue the full IB diploma.

Everything.

+1

-1. Your sock puppetry isn’t even SL, much less HL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regardless of the school’s name, an FCPS high school with an IB program that produces only four IB diploma recipients in a graduating class needs to pull the plug on IB. It’s nuts they think they are honoring John Lewis by associating his name with such poor achievement.

Achievement is not measured by IB diplomas alone.

And the faux “concern” for Lewis is pretty transparent.

C’mon. You know a high school IB program at a school with 400 or so seniors and only 4 IB diploma graduates sucks big time.

How many IB classes are being taken? How many juniors and seniors take 1, 2, 3, 4 or more IB classes during high school? Looking at IB diplomas awarded is only one metric and is not the best metric to use. Should FCPS high schools no longer offer AP classes if only have single-digit graduates with the Capstone?

One percent of graduates earning the AP Capstone shows terrible results at the top end, which likely are reflected in the other lower level metrics that you mentioned. And AP is no better for a la carte courses if that is the way they are going to be taken. AP is also less expensive. FCPS is not obligated to maintain two different sets of advanced courses. Simplify everything in the county by making all schools AP.

I would support a School Board candidate that pledged to take a serious look at IB. Unfortunately there are a few members who just won't give IB up.

Fixed the bolded for you.

DP, but that "fix" seems off. AP Capstone are two AP courses, but they aren't the centerpiece of the AP program in the same way the "IB diploma" has been the focus of an IB program for decades. Langley just started to offer one of the Capstone courses, and Woodson doesn't appear to offer Capstone yet at all.

But go ahead and try to muddy the water. It won't make IB, or Lewis, look one bit better.

My now college kid was recommended for capstone along with a lot of other kids.

Mine did not want to take it because that meant she would not be able to take both advanced theater and advanced chorus, so it was a hard pass for our family.

Most of the other kids invited felt the same way. They didn't want to drop their performing arts classes, or their extra math classes, or their academy classes.

But all of these kids graduated with many AP college credits, most of them are either graduating from college a year early due to AP classe. Or the AP classes gave them enough room in their schedule to double major in two rigorous programs.

The ability to knock out a demester or year of college is proceless for lower income families.

Literally everything here is true of IB and the reason kids might not pursue the full IB diploma.

Everything.

Nope.

Capstone consists of two AP courses. You could easily have a conflict between Capstone and an elective like theatre or chorus, whereas students who really wanted to do the full IB programme could take the elective and still find a way to meet their distribution requirements.

This, of course, is a lie.

Also, AP is more flexible, because courses are 1-year courses, whereas many IB courses are on a two-year track. So it's more likely students will commit to take the AP courses and then get college credit for them.

More lies. Two year IB courses are in things like math, English, history, and language. Your position is that AP students don’t take 2 years of those courses?

Please.

Plus, AP is less expensive to taxpayers than IB programmes that demand dedicated IB coordinators and impose a bunch of miscellaneous training costs and fees on schools.

Yes, we know you want to cut funds from low SES schools. Golly, wonder where you might want those funds to go?

It's no surprise that, relatively speaking, AP schools tend to be at or above capacity, whereas IB schools are more likely to struggle to fill seats. Or that FCPS then just leaves them under-enrolled, because they know few parents at AP schools would put up getting moved into an IB school without a fight.

Per the first post in this thread, 2 of the top 4 overenrolled schools are IB.

But otherwise, spot on!

#1) You don't know anything about Capstone.

#2. IB is inflexible. Ap is very flexible. Every single AP class is a one year course. A kid could take honors history in 9th and 10th, dual enrollment US history in 11th, and AP gov in 12th with no issues. The same goes for English. They could take AP English literature but not take AP english language. Or AP chemistry and honors physics. Or regular science classes every year except for one year of AP environmental science. They can struggle with English and take only regular English, non honors classes, but be a whiz in math and load up on AP calculus, AP Stats, AP Computer Science. AP is so flexible, and just makes sense for kids who are ESOL but smart enough to handle challenginging math and sc8ecne classes.

3) IB is much more expensive and much more difficult to staff than AP. Wasting that money on only 4 kids is unconscionable. That money could be directed in other areas at the poorer schools that would be much more effective, such as giving those kids unlimited free AP exams or bringing in more STEM or language supports.

4) The top 5 enrolled schools are AP schools. IB only serves the purpose of being a means by which families use to transfer out of IB schools into AP schools in all but 2 of the IB schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regardless of the school’s name, an FCPS high school with an IB program that produces only four IB diploma recipients in a graduating class needs to pull the plug on IB. It’s nuts they think they are honoring John Lewis by associating his name with such poor achievement.

Achievement is not measured by IB diplomas alone.

And the faux “concern” for Lewis is pretty transparent.

C’mon. You know a high school IB program at a school with 400 or so seniors and only 4 IB diploma graduates sucks big time.

How many IB classes are being taken? How many juniors and seniors take 1, 2, 3, 4 or more IB classes during high school? Looking at IB diplomas awarded is only one metric and is not the best metric to use. Should FCPS high schools no longer offer AP classes if only have single-digit graduates with the Capstone?

One percent of graduates earning the AP Capstone shows terrible results at the top end, which likely are reflected in the other lower level metrics that you mentioned. And AP is no better for a la carte courses if that is the way they are going to be taken. AP is also less expensive. FCPS is not obligated to maintain two different sets of advanced courses. Simplify everything in the county by making all schools AP.

I would support a School Board candidate that pledged to take a serious look at IB. Unfortunately there are a few members who just won't give IB up.

Fixed the bolded for you.

DP, but that "fix" seems off. AP Capstone are two AP courses, but they aren't the centerpiece of the AP program in the same way the "IB diploma" has been the focus of an IB program for decades. Langley just started to offer one of the Capstone courses, and Woodson doesn't appear to offer Capstone yet at all.

But go ahead and try to muddy the water. It won't make IB, or Lewis, look one bit better.

My now college kid was recommended for capstone along with a lot of other kids.

Mine did not want to take it because that meant she would not be able to take both advanced theater and advanced chorus, so it was a hard pass for our family.

Most of the other kids invited felt the same way. They didn't want to drop their performing arts classes, or their extra math classes, or their academy classes.

But all of these kids graduated with many AP college credits, most of them are either graduating from college a year early due to AP classe. Or the AP classes gave them enough room in their schedule to double major in two rigorous programs.

The ability to knock out a demester or year of college is proceless for lower income families.

Literally everything here is true of IB and the reason kids might not pursue the full IB diploma.

Everything.

Nope.

Capstone consists of two AP courses. You could easily have a conflict between Capstone and an elective like theatre or chorus, whereas students who really wanted to do the full IB programme could take the elective and still find a way to meet their distribution requirements.

This, of course, is a lie.

Also, AP is more flexible, because courses are 1-year courses, whereas many IB courses are on a two-year track. So it's more likely students will commit to take the AP courses and then get college credit for them.

More lies. Two year IB courses are in things like math, English, history, and language. Your position is that AP students don’t take 2 years of those courses?

Please.

Plus, AP is less expensive to taxpayers than IB programmes that demand dedicated IB coordinators and impose a bunch of miscellaneous training costs and fees on schools.

Yes, we know you want to cut funds from low SES schools. Golly, wonder where you might want those funds to go?

It's no surprise that, relatively speaking, AP schools tend to be at or above capacity, whereas IB schools are more likely to struggle to fill seats. Or that FCPS then just leaves them under-enrolled, because they know few parents at AP schools would put up getting moved into an IB school without a fight.

Per the first post in this thread, 2 of the top 4 overenrolled schools are IB.

But otherwise, spot on!

#1) You don't know anything about Capstone.

#2. IB is inflexible. Ap is very flexible. Every single AP class is a one year course. A kid could take honors history in 9th and 10th, dual enrollment US history in 11th, and AP gov in 12th with no issues. The same goes for English. They could take AP English literature but not take AP english language. Or AP chemistry and honors physics. Or regular science classes every year except for one year of AP environmental science. They can struggle with English and take only regular English, non honors classes, but be a whiz in math and load up on AP calculus, AP Stats, AP Computer Science. AP is so flexible, and just makes sense for kids who are ESOL but smart enough to handle challenginging math and sc8ecne classes.

3) IB is much more expensive and much more difficult to staff than AP. Wasting that money on only 4 kids is unconscionable. That money could be directed in other areas at the poorer schools that would be much more effective, such as giving those kids unlimited free AP exams or bringing in more STEM or language supports.

4) The top 5 enrolled schools are AP schools. IB only serves the purpose of being a means by which families use to transfer out of IB schools into AP schools in all but 2 of the IB schools.

Then why does FCPS stick with it? If AP is a lot more popular, why not just make the switch? It used to be the case that parents could use it as an excuse to transfer to a more desirable AP school but all the good AP schools are overcrowded and closed to transfers. For instance, my kid is going to end up at Marshall. But Madison and McLean are closed to transfers and I think the only option is Falls Church. Why even bother?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regardless of the school’s name, an FCPS high school with an IB program that produces only four IB diploma recipients in a graduating class needs to pull the plug on IB. It’s nuts they think they are honoring John Lewis by associating his name with such poor achievement.

Achievement is not measured by IB diplomas alone.

And the faux “concern” for Lewis is pretty transparent.

C’mon. You know a high school IB program at a school with 400 or so seniors and only 4 IB diploma graduates sucks big time.

How many IB classes are being taken? How many juniors and seniors take 1, 2, 3, 4 or more IB classes during high school? Looking at IB diplomas awarded is only one metric and is not the best metric to use. Should FCPS high schools no longer offer AP classes if only have single-digit graduates with the Capstone?

One percent of graduates earning the AP Capstone shows terrible results at the top end, which likely are reflected in the other lower level metrics that you mentioned. And AP is no better for a la carte courses if that is the way they are going to be taken. AP is also less expensive. FCPS is not obligated to maintain two different sets of advanced courses. Simplify everything in the county by making all schools AP.

I would support a School Board candidate that pledged to take a serious look at IB. Unfortunately there are a few members who just won't give IB up.

Fixed the bolded for you.

DP, but that "fix" seems off. AP Capstone are two AP courses, but they aren't the centerpiece of the AP program in the same way the "IB diploma" has been the focus of an IB program for decades. Langley just started to offer one of the Capstone courses, and Woodson doesn't appear to offer Capstone yet at all.

But go ahead and try to muddy the water. It won't make IB, or Lewis, look one bit better.

My now college kid was recommended for capstone along with a lot of other kids.

Mine did not want to take it because that meant she would not be able to take both advanced theater and advanced chorus, so it was a hard pass for our family.

Most of the other kids invited felt the same way. They didn't want to drop their performing arts classes, or their extra math classes, or their academy classes.

But all of these kids graduated with many AP college credits, most of them are either graduating from college a year early due to AP classe. Or the AP classes gave them enough room in their schedule to double major in two rigorous programs.

The ability to knock out a demester or year of college is proceless for lower income families.

Literally everything here is true of IB and the reason kids might not pursue the full IB diploma.

Everything.

Nope.

Capstone consists of two AP courses. You could easily have a conflict between Capstone and an elective like theatre or chorus, whereas students who really wanted to do the full IB programme could take the elective and still find a way to meet their distribution requirements.

This, of course, is a lie.

Also, AP is more flexible, because courses are 1-year courses, whereas many IB courses are on a two-year track. So it's more likely students will commit to take the AP courses and then get college credit for them.

More lies. Two year IB courses are in things like math, English, history, and language. Your position is that AP students don’t take 2 years of those courses?

Please.

Plus, AP is less expensive to taxpayers than IB programmes that demand dedicated IB coordinators and impose a bunch of miscellaneous training costs and fees on schools.

Yes, we know you want to cut funds from low SES schools. Golly, wonder where you might want those funds to go?

It's no surprise that, relatively speaking, AP schools tend to be at or above capacity, whereas IB schools are more likely to struggle to fill seats. Or that FCPS then just leaves them under-enrolled, because they know few parents at AP schools would put up getting moved into an IB school without a fight.

Per the first post in this thread, 2 of the top 4 overenrolled schools are IB.

But otherwise, spot on!

#1) You don't know anything about Capstone.

#2. IB is inflexible. Ap is very flexible. Every single AP class is a one year course. A kid could take honors history in 9th and 10th, dual enrollment US history in 11th, and AP gov in 12th with no issues. The same goes for English. They could take AP English literature but not take AP english language. Or AP chemistry and honors physics. Or regular science classes every year except for one year of AP environmental science. They can struggle with English and take only regular English, non honors classes, but be a whiz in math and load up on AP calculus, AP Stats, AP Computer Science. AP is so flexible, and just makes sense for kids who are ESOL but smart enough to handle challenginging math and sc8ecne classes.

3) IB is much more expensive and much more difficult to staff than AP. Wasting that money on only 4 kids is unconscionable. That money could be directed in other areas at the poorer schools that would be much more effective, such as giving those kids unlimited free AP exams or bringing in more STEM or language supports.

4) The top 5 enrolled schools are AP schools. IB only serves the purpose of being a means by which families use to transfer out of IB schools into AP schools in all but 2 of the IB schools.

Then why does FCPS stick with it? If AP is a lot more popular, why not just make the switch? It used to be the case that parents could use it as an excuse to transfer to a more desirable AP school but all the good AP schools are overcrowded and closed to transfers. For instance, my kid is going to end up at Marshall. But Madison and McLean are closed to transfers and I think the only option is Falls Church. Why even bother?

Only the School Board knows. Another reason to vote them out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regardless of the school’s name, an FCPS high school with an IB program that produces only four IB diploma recipients in a graduating class needs to pull the plug on IB. It’s nuts they think they are honoring John Lewis by associating his name with such poor achievement.

Achievement is not measured by IB diplomas alone.

And the faux “concern” for Lewis is pretty transparent.

C’mon. You know a high school IB program at a school with 400 or so seniors and only 4 IB diploma graduates sucks big time.

How many IB classes are being taken? How many juniors and seniors take 1, 2, 3, 4 or more IB classes during high school? Looking at IB diplomas awarded is only one metric and is not the best metric to use. Should FCPS high schools no longer offer AP classes if only have single-digit graduates with the Capstone?

One percent of graduates earning the AP Capstone shows terrible results at the top end, which likely are reflected in the other lower level metrics that you mentioned. And AP is no better for a la carte courses if that is the way they are going to be taken. AP is also less expensive. FCPS is not obligated to maintain two different sets of advanced courses. Simplify everything in the county by making all schools AP.

I would support a School Board candidate that pledged to take a serious look at IB. Unfortunately there are a few members who just won't give IB up.

Fixed the bolded for you.

DP, but that "fix" seems off. AP Capstone are two AP courses, but they aren't the centerpiece of the AP program in the same way the "IB diploma" has been the focus of an IB program for decades. Langley just started to offer one of the Capstone courses, and Woodson doesn't appear to offer Capstone yet at all.

But go ahead and try to muddy the water. It won't make IB, or Lewis, look one bit better.

My now college kid was recommended for capstone along with a lot of other kids.

Mine did not want to take it because that meant she would not be able to take both advanced theater and advanced chorus, so it was a hard pass for our family.

Most of the other kids invited felt the same way. They didn't want to drop their performing arts classes, or their extra math classes, or their academy classes.

But all of these kids graduated with many AP college credits, most of them are either graduating from college a year early due to AP classe. Or the AP classes gave them enough room in their schedule to double major in two rigorous programs.

The ability to knock out a demester or year of college is proceless for lower income families.

Literally everything here is true of IB and the reason kids might not pursue the full IB diploma.

Everything.

Nope.

Capstone consists of two AP courses. You could easily have a conflict between Capstone and an elective like theatre or chorus, whereas students who really wanted to do the full IB programme could take the elective and still find a way to meet their distribution requirements.

This, of course, is a lie.

Also, AP is more flexible, because courses are 1-year courses, whereas many IB courses are on a two-year track. So it's more likely students will commit to take the AP courses and then get college credit for them.

More lies. Two year IB courses are in things like math, English, history, and language. Your position is that AP students don’t take 2 years of those courses?

Please.

Plus, AP is less expensive to taxpayers than IB programmes that demand dedicated IB coordinators and impose a bunch of miscellaneous training costs and fees on schools.

Yes, we know you want to cut funds from low SES schools. Golly, wonder where you might want those funds to go?

It's no surprise that, relatively speaking, AP schools tend to be at or above capacity, whereas IB schools are more likely to struggle to fill seats. Or that FCPS then just leaves them under-enrolled, because they know few parents at AP schools would put up getting moved into an IB school without a fight.

Per the first post in this thread, 2 of the top 4 overenrolled schools are IB.

But otherwise, spot on!

#1) You don't know anything about Capstone.

#2. IB is inflexible. Ap is very flexible. Every single AP class is a one year course. A kid could take honors history in 9th and 10th, dual enrollment US history in 11th, and AP gov in 12th with no issues. The same goes for English. They could take AP English literature but not take AP english language. Or AP chemistry and honors physics. Or regular science classes every year except for one year of AP environmental science. They can struggle with English and take only regular English, non honors classes, but be a whiz in math and load up on AP calculus, AP Stats, AP Computer Science. AP is so flexible, and just makes sense for kids who are ESOL but smart enough to handle challenginging math and sc8ecne classes.

3) IB is much more expensive and much more difficult to staff than AP. Wasting that money on only 4 kids is unconscionable. That money could be directed in other areas at the poorer schools that would be much more effective, such as giving those kids unlimited free AP exams or bringing in more STEM or language supports.

4) The top 5 enrolled schools are AP schools. IB only serves the purpose of being a means by which families use to transfer out of IB schools into AP schools in all but 2 of the IB schools.

Then why does FCPS stick with it? If AP is a lot more popular, why not just make the switch? It used to be the case that parents could use it as an excuse to transfer to a more desirable AP school but all the good AP schools are overcrowded and closed to transfers. For instance, my kid is going to end up at Marshall. But Madison and McLean are closed to transfers and I think the only option is Falls Church. Why even bother?

I think the answer is they don't like to admit they've made mistakes and they've sunk a lot of costs into IB training and materials.

Personally, I'm not a fan of IB but you could do a lot worse than Marshall. It's generally a good school.

And if you did look into Falls Church for AP, it is getting a top-of-the-line renovation now. The renovated facility will be nicer than any other nearby FCPS high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regardless of the school’s name, an FCPS high school with an IB program that produces only four IB diploma recipients in a graduating class needs to pull the plug on IB. It’s nuts they think they are honoring John Lewis by associating his name with such poor achievement.

Achievement is not measured by IB diplomas alone.

And the faux “concern” for Lewis is pretty transparent.

C’mon. You know a high school IB program at a school with 400 or so seniors and only 4 IB diploma graduates sucks big time.

How many IB classes are being taken? How many juniors and seniors take 1, 2, 3, 4 or more IB classes during high school? Looking at IB diplomas awarded is only one metric and is not the best metric to use. Should FCPS high schools no longer offer AP classes if only have single-digit graduates with the Capstone?

One percent of graduates earning the AP Capstone shows terrible results at the top end, which likely are reflected in the other lower level metrics that you mentioned. And AP is no better for a la carte courses if that is the way they are going to be taken. AP is also less expensive. FCPS is not obligated to maintain two different sets of advanced courses. Simplify everything in the county by making all schools AP.

I would support a School Board candidate that pledged to take a serious look at IB. Unfortunately there are a few members who just won't give IB up.

Fixed the bolded for you.

DP, but that "fix" seems off. AP Capstone are two AP courses, but they aren't the centerpiece of the AP program in the same way the "IB diploma" has been the focus of an IB program for decades. Langley just started to offer one of the Capstone courses, and Woodson doesn't appear to offer Capstone yet at all.

But go ahead and try to muddy the water. It won't make IB, or Lewis, look one bit better.

My now college kid was recommended for capstone along with a lot of other kids.

Mine did not want to take it because that meant she would not be able to take both advanced theater and advanced chorus, so it was a hard pass for our family.

Most of the other kids invited felt the same way. They didn't want to drop their performing arts classes, or their extra math classes, or their academy classes.

But all of these kids graduated with many AP college credits, most of them are either graduating from college a year early due to AP classe. Or the AP classes gave them enough room in their schedule to double major in two rigorous programs.

The ability to knock out a demester or year of college is proceless for lower income families.

Literally everything here is true of IB and the reason kids might not pursue the full IB diploma.

Everything.

Nope.

Capstone consists of two AP courses. You could easily have a conflict between Capstone and an elective like theatre or chorus, whereas students who really wanted to do the full IB programme could take the elective and still find a way to meet their distribution requirements.

This, of course, is a lie.

Also, AP is more flexible, because courses are 1-year courses, whereas many IB courses are on a two-year track. So it's more likely students will commit to take the AP courses and then get college credit for them.

More lies. Two year IB courses are in things like math, English, history, and language. Your position is that AP students don’t take 2 years of those courses?

Please.

Plus, AP is less expensive to taxpayers than IB programmes that demand dedicated IB coordinators and impose a bunch of miscellaneous training costs and fees on schools.

Yes, we know you want to cut funds from low SES schools. Golly, wonder where you might want those funds to go?

It's no surprise that, relatively speaking, AP schools tend to be at or above capacity, whereas IB schools are more likely to struggle to fill seats. Or that FCPS then just leaves them under-enrolled, because they know few parents at AP schools would put up getting moved into an IB school without a fight.

Per the first post in this thread, 2 of the top 4 overenrolled schools are IB.

But otherwise, spot on!

#1) You don't know anything about Capstone.

#2. IB is inflexible. Ap is very flexible. Every single AP class is a one year course. A kid could take honors history in 9th and 10th, dual enrollment US history in 11th, and AP gov in 12th with no issues. The same goes for English. They could take AP English literature but not take AP english language. Or AP chemistry and honors physics. Or regular science classes every year except for one year of AP environmental science. They can struggle with English and take only regular English, non honors classes, but be a whiz in math and load up on AP calculus, AP Stats, AP Computer Science. AP is so flexible, and just makes sense for kids who are ESOL but smart enough to handle challenginging math and sc8ecne classes.

3) IB is much more expensive and much more difficult to staff than AP. Wasting that money on only 4 kids is unconscionable. That money could be directed in other areas at the poorer schools that would be much more effective, such as giving those kids unlimited free AP exams or bringing in more STEM or language supports.

4) The top 5 enrolled schools are AP schools. IB only serves the purpose of being a means by which families use to transfer out of IB schools into AP schools in all but 2 of the IB schools.

Then why does FCPS stick with it? If AP is a lot more popular, why not just make the switch? It used to be the case that parents could use it as an excuse to transfer to a more desirable AP school but all the good AP schools are overcrowded and closed to transfers. For instance, my kid is going to end up at Marshall. But Madison and McLean are closed to transfers and I think the only option is Falls Church. Why even bother?

I think the answer is they don't like to admit they've made mistakes and they've sunk a lot of costs into IB training and materials.

Personally, I'm not a fan of IB but you could do a lot worse than Marshall. It's generally a good school.

And if you did look into Falls Church for AP, it is getting a top-of-the-line renovation now. The renovated facility will be nicer than any other nearby FCPS high school.

Not to mention the $$$ dumped into outsourcing for IBMY. It's too weird that FCPS has a fine instructional services dept with POS that people want and theoretically deprecates itself by IB outsourcing. Jay Matthews made $$$ with his book Supertest that had the inception of FCPS IB.

Google books has excerpts if you don't want to read the whole thing. It was brought in initially to Mount Vernon and Justice [then called Stuart] and was considered a mechanism to improve academics and retain inboundary middle class students who might otherwise go private/move/transfer, etc.

Amundsen and another board member had it as a pet project and Amundsen said a vote for a playground in another board members district was a vote for IB. Good insight into how West Potomac might have gotten that addition but also a lesson in the failure of at large members. Now FCPS has 20+ years of solid data on IB efficacy plus the transfer data. FCPS does not publish requests per school, granted per school, TJ, alterntive school, adult ed, special ed, IB, AP, etc. That should be done for sending and receiving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regardless of the school’s name, an FCPS high school with an IB program that produces only four IB diploma recipients in a graduating class needs to pull the plug on IB. It’s nuts they think they are honoring John Lewis by associating his name with such poor achievement.

Achievement is not measured by IB diplomas alone.

And the faux “concern” for Lewis is pretty transparent.

C’mon. You know a high school IB program at a school with 400 or so seniors and only 4 IB diploma graduates sucks big time.

How many IB classes are being taken? How many juniors and seniors take 1, 2, 3, 4 or more IB classes during high school? Looking at IB diplomas awarded is only one metric and is not the best metric to use. Should FCPS high schools no longer offer AP classes if only have single-digit graduates with the Capstone?

One percent of graduates earning the AP Capstone shows terrible results at the top end, which likely are reflected in the other lower level metrics that you mentioned. And AP is no better for a la carte courses if that is the way they are going to be taken. AP is also less expensive. FCPS is not obligated to maintain two different sets of advanced courses. Simplify everything in the county by making all schools AP.

I would support a School Board candidate that pledged to take a serious look at IB. Unfortunately there are a few members who just won't give IB up.

Fixed the bolded for you.

DP, but that "fix" seems off. AP Capstone are two AP courses, but they aren't the centerpiece of the AP program in the same way the "IB diploma" has been the focus of an IB program for decades. Langley just started to offer one of the Capstone courses, and Woodson doesn't appear to offer Capstone yet at all.

But go ahead and try to muddy the water. It won't make IB, or Lewis, look one bit better.

My now college kid was recommended for capstone along with a lot of other kids.

Mine did not want to take it because that meant she would not be able to take both advanced theater and advanced chorus, so it was a hard pass for our family.

Most of the other kids invited felt the same way. They didn't want to drop their performing arts classes, or their extra math classes, or their academy classes.

But all of these kids graduated with many AP college credits, most of them are either graduating from college a year early due to AP classe. Or the AP classes gave them enough room in their schedule to double major in two rigorous programs.

The ability to knock out a demester or year of college is proceless for lower income families.

Literally everything here is true of IB and the reason kids might not pursue the full IB diploma.

Everything.

Nope.

Capstone consists of two AP courses. You could easily have a conflict between Capstone and an elective like theatre or chorus, whereas students who really wanted to do the full IB programme could take the elective and still find a way to meet their distribution requirements.

This, of course, is a lie.

Also, AP is more flexible, because courses are 1-year courses, whereas many IB courses are on a two-year track. So it's more likely students will commit to take the AP courses and then get college credit for them.

More lies. Two year IB courses are in things like math, English, history, and language. Your position is that AP students don’t take 2 years of those courses?

Please.

Plus, AP is less expensive to taxpayers than IB programmes that demand dedicated IB coordinators and impose a bunch of miscellaneous training costs and fees on schools.

Yes, we know you want to cut funds from low SES schools. Golly, wonder where you might want those funds to go?

It's no surprise that, relatively speaking, AP schools tend to be at or above capacity, whereas IB schools are more likely to struggle to fill seats. Or that FCPS then just leaves them under-enrolled, because they know few parents at AP schools would put up getting moved into an IB school without a fight.

Per the first post in this thread, 2 of the top 4 overenrolled schools are IB.

But otherwise, spot on!

#1) You don't know anything about Capstone.

#2. IB is inflexible. Ap is very flexible. Every single AP class is a one year course. A kid could take honors history in 9th and 10th, dual enrollment US history in 11th, and AP gov in 12th with no issues. The same goes for English. They could take AP English literature but not take AP english language. Or AP chemistry and honors physics. Or regular science classes every year except for one year of AP environmental science. They can struggle with English and take only regular English, non honors classes, but be a whiz in math and load up on AP calculus, AP Stats, AP Computer Science. AP is so flexible, and just makes sense for kids who are ESOL but smart enough to handle challenginging math and sc8ecne classes.

3) IB is much more expensive and much more difficult to staff than AP. Wasting that money on only 4 kids is unconscionable. That money could be directed in other areas at the poorer schools that would be much more effective, such as giving those kids unlimited free AP exams or bringing in more STEM or language supports.

4) The top 5 enrolled schools are AP schools. IB only serves the purpose of being a means by which families use to transfer out of IB schools into AP schools in all but 2 of the IB schools.

Then why does FCPS stick with it? If AP is a lot more popular, why not just make the switch? It used to be the case that parents could use it as an excuse to transfer to a more desirable AP school but all the good AP schools are overcrowded and closed to transfers. For instance, my kid is going to end up at Marshall. But Madison and McLean are closed to transfers and I think the only option is Falls Church. Why even bother?

Only the School Board knows. Another reason to vote them out.

[Anonymous]

Open classrooms were a trend for schools built in the 1970s. Turned out they weren’t great learning environments and school systems had to spend money to modify buildings so their classrooms.

IB was a trend in the late 90s and early 00s. We now have several decades of experience that it’s been a net detriment to the schools where it was introduced. We just haven’t bit the bullet and gotten rid of it yet. In the meanwhile most IB programs will continue to flounder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regardless of the school’s name, an FCPS high school with an IB program that produces only four IB diploma recipients in a graduating class needs to pull the plug on IB. It’s nuts they think they are honoring John Lewis by associating his name with such poor achievement.

Achievement is not measured by IB diplomas alone.

And the faux “concern” for Lewis is pretty transparent.

C’mon. You know a high school IB program at a school with 400 or so seniors and only 4 IB diploma graduates sucks big time.

How many IB classes are being taken? How many juniors and seniors take 1, 2, 3, 4 or more IB classes during high school? Looking at IB diplomas awarded is only one metric and is not the best metric to use. Should FCPS high schools no longer offer AP classes if only have single-digit graduates with the Capstone?

One percent of graduates earning the AP Capstone shows terrible results at the top end, which likely are reflected in the other lower level metrics that you mentioned. And AP is no better for a la carte courses if that is the way they are going to be taken. AP is also less expensive. FCPS is not obligated to maintain two different sets of advanced courses. Simplify everything in the county by making all schools AP.

I would support a School Board candidate that pledged to take a serious look at IB. Unfortunately there are a few members who just won't give IB up.

Fixed the bolded for you.

DP, but that "fix" seems off. AP Capstone are two AP courses, but they aren't the centerpiece of the AP program in the same way the "IB diploma" has been the focus of an IB program for decades. Langley just started to offer one of the Capstone courses, and Woodson doesn't appear to offer Capstone yet at all.

But go ahead and try to muddy the water. It won't make IB, or Lewis, look one bit better.

My now college kid was recommended for capstone along with a lot of other kids.

Mine did not want to take it because that meant she would not be able to take both advanced theater and advanced chorus, so it was a hard pass for our family.

Most of the other kids invited felt the same way. They didn't want to drop their performing arts classes, or their extra math classes, or their academy classes.

But all of these kids graduated with many AP college credits, most of them are either graduating from college a year early due to AP classe. Or the AP classes gave them enough room in their schedule to double major in two rigorous programs.

The ability to knock out a demester or year of college is proceless for lower income families.

Literally everything here is true of IB and the reason kids might not pursue the full IB diploma.

Everything.

Nope.

Capstone consists of two AP courses. You could easily have a conflict between Capstone and an elective like theatre or chorus, whereas students who really wanted to do the full IB programme could take the elective and still find a way to meet their distribution requirements.

This, of course, is a lie.

Also, AP is more flexible, because courses are 1-year courses, whereas many IB courses are on a two-year track. So it's more likely students will commit to take the AP courses and then get college credit for them.

More lies. Two year IB courses are in things like math, English, history, and language. Your position is that AP students don’t take 2 years of those courses?

Please.

Plus, AP is less expensive to taxpayers than IB programmes that demand dedicated IB coordinators and impose a bunch of miscellaneous training costs and fees on schools.

Yes, we know you want to cut funds from low SES schools. Golly, wonder where you might want those funds to go?

It's no surprise that, relatively speaking, AP schools tend to be at or above capacity, whereas IB schools are more likely to struggle to fill seats. Or that FCPS then just leaves them under-enrolled, because they know few parents at AP schools would put up getting moved into an IB school without a fight.

Per the first post in this thread, 2 of the top 4 overenrolled schools are IB.

But otherwise, spot on!

#1) You don't know anything about Capstone.

#2. IB is inflexible. Ap is very flexible. Every single AP class is a one year course. A kid could take honors history in 9th and 10th, dual enrollment US history in 11th, and AP gov in 12th with no issues. The same goes for English. They could take AP English literature but not take AP english language. Or AP chemistry and honors physics. Or regular science classes every year except for one year of AP environmental science. They can struggle with English and take only regular English, non honors classes, but be a whiz in math and load up on AP calculus, AP Stats, AP Computer Science. AP is so flexible, and just makes sense for kids who are ESOL but smart enough to handle challenginging math and sc8ecne classes.

3) IB is much more expensive and much more difficult to staff than AP. Wasting that money on only 4 kids is unconscionable. That money could be directed in other areas at the poorer schools that would be much more effective, such as giving those kids unlimited free AP exams or bringing in more STEM or language supports.

4) The top 5 enrolled schools are AP schools. IB only serves the purpose of being a means by which families use to transfer out of IB schools into AP schools in all but 2 of the IB schools.

Then why does FCPS stick with it? If AP is a lot more popular, why not just make the switch? It used to be the case that parents could use it as an excuse to transfer to a more desirable AP school but all the good AP schools are overcrowded and closed to transfers. For instance, my kid is going to end up at Marshall. But Madison and McLean are closed to transfers and I think the only option is Falls Church. Why even bother?

I think the answer is they don't like to admit they've made mistakes and they've sunk a lot of costs into IB training and materials.

Personally, I'm not a fan of IB but you could do a lot worse than Marshall. It's generally a good school.

And if you did look into Falls Church for AP, it is getting a top-of-the-line renovation now. The renovated facility will be nicer than any other nearby FCPS high school.

Ideally-Would you keep 2 schools IB magnet and have the rest be AP? Maybe the 2 schools with strongest IB programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regardless of the school’s name, an FCPS high school with an IB program that produces only four IB diploma recipients in a graduating class needs to pull the plug on IB. It’s nuts they think they are honoring John Lewis by associating his name with such poor achievement.

Achievement is not measured by IB diplomas alone.

And the faux “concern” for Lewis is pretty transparent.

C’mon. You know a high school IB program at a school with 400 or so seniors and only 4 IB diploma graduates sucks big time.

How many IB classes are being taken? How many juniors and seniors take 1, 2, 3, 4 or more IB classes during high school? Looking at IB diplomas awarded is only one metric and is not the best metric to use. Should FCPS high schools no longer offer AP classes if only have single-digit graduates with the Capstone?

One percent of graduates earning the AP Capstone shows terrible results at the top end, which likely are reflected in the other lower level metrics that you mentioned. And AP is no better for a la carte courses if that is the way they are going to be taken. AP is also less expensive. FCPS is not obligated to maintain two different sets of advanced courses. Simplify everything in the county by making all schools AP.

I would support a School Board candidate that pledged to take a serious look at IB. Unfortunately there are a few members who just won't give IB up.

Fixed the bolded for you.

DP, but that "fix" seems off. AP Capstone are two AP courses, but they aren't the centerpiece of the AP program in the same way the "IB diploma" has been the focus of an IB program for decades. Langley just started to offer one of the Capstone courses, and Woodson doesn't appear to offer Capstone yet at all.

But go ahead and try to muddy the water. It won't make IB, or Lewis, look one bit better.

My now college kid was recommended for capstone along with a lot of other kids.

Mine did not want to take it because that meant she would not be able to take both advanced theater and advanced chorus, so it was a hard pass for our family.

Most of the other kids invited felt the same way. They didn't want to drop their performing arts classes, or their extra math classes, or their academy classes.

But all of these kids graduated with many AP college credits, most of them are either graduating from college a year early due to AP classe. Or the AP classes gave them enough room in their schedule to double major in two rigorous programs.

The ability to knock out a demester or year of college is proceless for lower income families.

Literally everything here is true of IB and the reason kids might not pursue the full IB diploma.

Everything.

Nope.

Capstone consists of two AP courses. You could easily have a conflict between Capstone and an elective like theatre or chorus, whereas students who really wanted to do the full IB programme could take the elective and still find a way to meet their distribution requirements.

This, of course, is a lie.

Also, AP is more flexible, because courses are 1-year courses, whereas many IB courses are on a two-year track. So it's more likely students will commit to take the AP courses and then get college credit for them.

More lies. Two year IB courses are in things like math, English, history, and language. Your position is that AP students don’t take 2 years of those courses?

Please.

Plus, AP is less expensive to taxpayers than IB programmes that demand dedicated IB coordinators and impose a bunch of miscellaneous training costs and fees on schools.

Yes, we know you want to cut funds from low SES schools. Golly, wonder where you might want those funds to go?

It's no surprise that, relatively speaking, AP schools tend to be at or above capacity, whereas IB schools are more likely to struggle to fill seats. Or that FCPS then just leaves them under-enrolled, because they know few parents at AP schools would put up getting moved into an IB school without a fight.

Per the first post in this thread, 2 of the top 4 overenrolled schools are IB.

But otherwise, spot on!

#1) You don't know anything about Capstone.

#2. IB is inflexible. Ap is very flexible. Every single AP class is a one year course. A kid could take honors history in 9th and 10th, dual enrollment US history in 11th, and AP gov in 12th with no issues. The same goes for English. They could take AP English literature but not take AP english language. Or AP chemistry and honors physics. Or regular science classes every year except for one year of AP environmental science. They can struggle with English and take only regular English, non honors classes, but be a whiz in math and load up on AP calculus, AP Stats, AP Computer Science. AP is so flexible, and just makes sense for kids who are ESOL but smart enough to handle challenginging math and sc8ecne classes.

3) IB is much more expensive and much more difficult to staff than AP. Wasting that money on only 4 kids is unconscionable. That money could be directed in other areas at the poorer schools that would be much more effective, such as giving those kids unlimited free AP exams or bringing in more STEM or language supports.

4) The top 5 enrolled schools are AP schools. IB only serves the purpose of being a means by which families use to transfer out of IB schools into AP schools in all but 2 of the IB schools.

Then why does FCPS stick with it? If AP is a lot more popular, why not just make the switch? It used to be the case that parents could use it as an excuse to transfer to a more desirable AP school but all the good AP schools are overcrowded and closed to transfers. For instance, my kid is going to end up at Marshall. But Madison and McLean are closed to transfers and I think the only option is Falls Church. Why even bother?

I think the answer is they don't like to admit they've made mistakes and they've sunk a lot of costs into IB training and materials.

Personally, I'm not a fan of IB but you could do a lot worse than Marshall. It's generally a good school.

And if you did look into Falls Church for AP, it is getting a top-of-the-line renovation now. The renovated facility will be nicer than any other nearby FCPS high school.

One of my kids is a humanities person and I think she will do well with IB. The other one would be better served in AP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Open classrooms were a trend for schools built in the 1970s. Turned out they weren’t great learning environments and school systems had to spend money to modify buildings so their classrooms.

IB was a trend in the late 90s and early 00s. We now have several decades of experience that it’s been a net detriment to the schools where it was introduced. We just haven’t bit the bullet and gotten rid of it yet. In the meanwhile most IB programs will continue to flounder.

Here’s hoping the 2023 School Board will tackle it. They would get a lot of support from parents.