Fall 2022 Over/Under-Enrollment at FCPS High Schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think Sears may be a bit pessimistic.

The School Board has a history of doling out small favors to McLean near elections. Shortly before the 2019 elections, they amended to CIP to authorize a Langley/McLean boundary study, which held out the promise of some relief (thought it was later undercut by Tholen's replacing a staff recommendation with a smaller boundary change that put the burden of Tysons growth back on McLean, rather than dividing it between Langley, McLean, and Marshall).

Wouldn't be surprised if prior to the fall 2023 election they either adjust the CIP to provide for an addition to McLean similar to the Madison addition or release a new renovation queue that contemplates a full renovation of the school at some future date (not within the next few years but well before 2042).

However, people at MHS have been burned so long by the School Board that many will want to vote members out either way. Some remember when Janie Strauss lied to our faces that FCPS had drawn up all the plans for an addition to McLean and that it would get an addition before any kids were ever moved to Langley.

That's interesting. Supposedly FCPS has a workgroup now to come up with options for Kent Gardens' overcrowding issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One of FCPS' biggest blunders that led to an accelerated collapse of enrollment at Lewis was hosting the ESOL young adult newcomer pilot program at Lewis and Justice about 10 years ago. This led to a larger than normal enrollment in ESOL students, ages 18-22, for a couple of years at that time. Lewis and Justice were essentially designated as ESOL magnets for that pilot program.

While the program was actually a great success as far as improving outcomes for those enrolled ESOL students, the VDOE test scores and metrics showed otherwise. Of course, we all know a 20 year-old with level 0 English proficiency will fail standardized exams, but yet their scores still counted against Lewis and Justice. In just a few years the average "equity" scores at those schools took a tumble and never recovered.

That program should have been placed at the Bryant Alternative High School in Alexandria.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Sears may be a bit pessimistic.

The School Board has a history of doling out small favors to McLean near elections. Shortly before the 2019 elections, they amended to CIP to authorize a Langley/McLean boundary study, which held out the promise of some relief (thought it was later undercut by Tholen's replacing a staff recommendation with a smaller boundary change that put the burden of Tysons growth back on McLean, rather than dividing it between Langley, McLean, and Marshall).

Wouldn't be surprised if prior to the fall 2023 election they either adjust the CIP to provide for an addition to McLean similar to the Madison addition or release a new renovation queue that contemplates a full renovation of the school at some future date (not within the next few years but well before 2042).

However, people at MHS have been burned so long by the School Board that many will want to vote members out either way. Some remember when Janie Strauss lied to our faces that FCPS had drawn up all the plans for an addition to McLean and that it would get an addition before any kids were ever moved to Langley.

That's interesting. Supposedly FCPS has a workgroup now to come up with options for Kent Gardens' overcrowding issue.

KG is one of the two most overcrowded elementary schools in FCPS and the other school (but not KG, of course) is scheduled to be renovated/expanded shortly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As Elaine Tholen continues to look out only after the interests of her Great Falls neighbors, leaving McLean HS ridiculously overcrowded, it's no surprise the McLean Citizens Association continues to poke at the issue of incorporating as a separate city.

https://sungazette.news/activists-ponder-should-mclean-go-the-incorporation-route/

McLean won't be able to separate from the county, but they should separate Tholen from her seat on the School Board.

Worth noting that the incorporation question has almost nothing to do with enrollment at McLean HS (which isn't even mentioned in the article).

"The resulting entity either would need to provide municipal services – schools, police, fire and rescue, public works, parks and recreation, roads, courts, planning and zoning, etc. – or contract to do so with a nearby jurisdiction, such as Fairfax County."

"Board member David Pritchett said cost should not be the only factor, and affluent McLean could afford to spend more to reduce class sizes."

"By having its own education system, McLean would be able to respond to school-facilities needs more quickly, said board member Joanne Sears, who added McLean High School will not be spruced up again until 2042.

It would be worthwhile to better understand the history of the incorporation issue before posting random quotes that you think support your position.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As Elaine Tholen continues to look out only after the interests of her Great Falls neighbors, leaving McLean HS ridiculously overcrowded, it's no surprise the McLean Citizens Association continues to poke at the issue of incorporating as a separate city.

https://sungazette.news/activists-ponder-should-mclean-go-the-incorporation-route/

McLean won't be able to separate from the county, but they should separate Tholen from her seat on the School Board.

Worth noting that the incorporation question has almost nothing to do with enrollment at McLean HS (which isn't even mentioned in the article).

"The resulting entity either would need to provide municipal services – schools, police, fire and rescue, public works, parks and recreation, roads, courts, planning and zoning, etc. – or contract to do so with a nearby jurisdiction, such as Fairfax County."

"Board member David Pritchett said cost should not be the only factor, and affluent McLean could afford to spend more to reduce class sizes."

"By having its own education system, McLean would be able to respond to school-facilities needs more quickly, said board member Joanne Sears, who added McLean High School will not be spruced up again until 2042.

It would be worthwhile to better understand the history of the incorporation issue before posting random quotes that you think support your position.

The quotes give a good flavor as to why people continue to toy with the idea today, regardless of the "history of the incorporation issue." In theory, no one wants to pay higher taxes, yet some would bite the bullet and do just that if they'd get better services (particularly when it comes to schools) in return.

But feel free to enlighten us all with your history lesson.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regardless of the school’s name, an FCPS high school with an IB program that produces only four IB diploma recipients in a graduating class needs to pull the plug on IB. It’s nuts they think they are honoring John Lewis by associating his name with such poor achievement.

Achievement is not measured by IB diplomas alone.

And the faux “concern” for Lewis is pretty transparent.

C’mon. You know a high school IB program at a school with 400 or so seniors and only 4 IB diploma graduates sucks big time.

How many IB classes are being taken? How many juniors and seniors take 1, 2, 3, 4 or more IB classes during high school? Looking at IB diplomas awarded is only one metric and is not the best metric to use. Should FCPS high schools no longer offer AP classes if only have single-digit graduates with the Capstone?

One percent of graduates earning the AP Capstone shows terrible results at the top end, which likely are reflected in the other lower level metrics that you mentioned. And AP is no better for a la carte courses if that is the way they are going to be taken. AP is also less expensive. FCPS is not obligated to maintain two different sets of advanced courses. Simplify everything in the county by making all schools AP.

I would support a School Board candidate that pledged to take a serious look at IB. Unfortunately there are a few members who just won't give IB up.

Fixed the bolded for you.

[Anonymous]

IB is fine and where and why fcps places the program is also fine.


Parents who don’t want it are free to pupil place their kids at AP schools and drive them to school everyday.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regardless of the school’s name, an FCPS high school with an IB program that produces only four IB diploma recipients in a graduating class needs to pull the plug on IB. It’s nuts they think they are honoring John Lewis by associating his name with such poor achievement.

Achievement is not measured by IB diplomas alone.

And the faux “concern” for Lewis is pretty transparent.

C’mon. You know a high school IB program at a school with 400 or so seniors and only 4 IB diploma graduates sucks big time.

How many IB classes are being taken? How many juniors and seniors take 1, 2, 3, 4 or more IB classes during high school? Looking at IB diplomas awarded is only one metric and is not the best metric to use. Should FCPS high schools no longer offer AP classes if only have single-digit graduates with the Capstone?

One percent of graduates earning the AP Capstone shows terrible results at the top end, which likely are reflected in the other lower level metrics that you mentioned. And AP is no better for a la carte courses if that is the way they are going to be taken. AP is also less expensive. FCPS is not obligated to maintain two different sets of advanced courses. Simplify everything in the county by making all schools AP.

I would support a School Board candidate that pledged to take a serious look at IB. Unfortunately there are a few members who just won't give IB up.

Fixed the bolded for you.

DP, but that "fix" seems off. AP Capstone are two AP courses, but they aren't the centerpiece of the AP program in the same way the "IB diploma" has been the focus of an IB program for decades. Langley just started to offer one of the Capstone courses, and Woodson doesn't appear to offer Capstone yet at all.

But go ahead and try to muddy the water. It won't make IB, or Lewis, look one bit better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:IB is fine and where and why fcps places the program is also fine.

Parents who don’t want it are free to pupil place their kids at AP schools and drive them to school everyday.

Except AP schools are more likely to be closed to transfers than IB schools, so it could be a long drive to an AP school that a lot of families wouldn't be able to manage in any event.

So instead you have more people avoiding IB schools entirely, one reason why there's such a big difference between West Springfield, with compact boundaries and 2500 kids, and Lewis, with probably a larger catchment area but only 1700 kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:IB is fine and where and why fcps places the program is also fine.


Parents who don’t want it are free to pupil place their kids at AP schools and drive them to school everyday.

IB needs to be removed from any school grasuating single digits of kids with an IB diploma.

Fcps is throwing a way my and everyone else's tax dollars on an expensive, useless, ineffective, unwanted program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regardless of the school’s name, an FCPS high school with an IB program that produces only four IB diploma recipients in a graduating class needs to pull the plug on IB. It’s nuts they think they are honoring John Lewis by associating his name with such poor achievement.

Achievement is not measured by IB diplomas alone.

And the faux “concern” for Lewis is pretty transparent.

C’mon. You know a high school IB program at a school with 400 or so seniors and only 4 IB diploma graduates sucks big time.

How many IB classes are being taken? How many juniors and seniors take 1, 2, 3, 4 or more IB classes during high school? Looking at IB diplomas awarded is only one metric and is not the best metric to use. Should FCPS high schools no longer offer AP classes if only have single-digit graduates with the Capstone?

One percent of graduates earning the AP Capstone shows terrible results at the top end, which likely are reflected in the other lower level metrics that you mentioned. And AP is no better for a la carte courses if that is the way they are going to be taken. AP is also less expensive. FCPS is not obligated to maintain two different sets of advanced courses. Simplify everything in the county by making all schools AP.

I would support a School Board candidate that pledged to take a serious look at IB. Unfortunately there are a few members who just won't give IB up.

Fixed the bolded for you.

DP, but that "fix" seems off. AP Capstone are two AP courses, but they aren't the centerpiece of the AP program in the same way the "IB diploma" has been the focus of an IB program for decades. Langley just started to offer one of the Capstone courses, and Woodson doesn't appear to offer Capstone yet at all.

But go ahead and try to muddy the water. It won't make IB, or Lewis, look one bit better.

My now college kid was recommended for capstone along with a lot of other kids.

Mine did not want to take it because that meant she would not be able to take both advanced theater and advanced chorus, so it was a hard pass for our family.

Most of the other kids invited felt the same way. They didn't want to drop their performing arts classes, or their extra math classes, or their academy classes.

But all of these kids graduated with many AP college credits, most of them are either graduating from college a year early due to AP classe. Or the AP classes gave them enough room in their schedule to double major in two rigorous programs.

AP should definitely be in those lower performing schools over IB.

The ability to knock out a demester or year of college is proceless for lower income families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IB is fine and where and why fcps places the program is also fine.

Parents who don’t want it are free to pupil place their kids at AP schools and drive them to school everyday.

Except AP schools are more likely to be closed to transfers than IB schools, so it could be a long drive to an AP school that a lot of families wouldn't be able to manage in any event.

So instead you have more people avoiding IB schools entirely, one reason why there's such a big difference between West Springfield, with compact boundaries and 2500 kids, and Lewis, with probably a larger catchment area but only 1700 kids.

Just to note for everyone, if you look at the Lewis boundaries it may look big, but there is a huge no residence zone made up of the old Ft. Belvoir Proving Ground (now NGA), the Fullerton industrial center, and an area east of 95 (the car dealerships). This leaves the Saratoga area somewhat isolated. That being said, in days gone by Lee/Lewis had more than 2000 students. Of course that was before the School Board shrank the boundaries by taking many single family homes and moving them to West Springfield and South County.

And AP should be put back in at Lewis. Anyone saying differently is in denial of the harsh reality that IB has failed there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regardless of the school’s name, an FCPS high school with an IB program that produces only four IB diploma recipients in a graduating class needs to pull the plug on IB. It’s nuts they think they are honoring John Lewis by associating his name with such poor achievement.

Achievement is not measured by IB diplomas alone.

And the faux “concern” for Lewis is pretty transparent.

C’mon. You know a high school IB program at a school with 400 or so seniors and only 4 IB diploma graduates sucks big time.

How many IB classes are being taken? How many juniors and seniors take 1, 2, 3, 4 or more IB classes during high school? Looking at IB diplomas awarded is only one metric and is not the best metric to use. Should FCPS high schools no longer offer AP classes if only have single-digit graduates with the Capstone?

One percent of graduates earning the AP Capstone shows terrible results at the top end, which likely are reflected in the other lower level metrics that you mentioned. And AP is no better for a la carte courses if that is the way they are going to be taken. AP is also less expensive. FCPS is not obligated to maintain two different sets of advanced courses. Simplify everything in the county by making all schools AP.

I would support a School Board candidate that pledged to take a serious look at IB. Unfortunately there are a few members who just won't give IB up.

Fixed the bolded for you.

DP, but that "fix" seems off. AP Capstone are two AP courses, but they aren't the centerpiece of the AP program in the same way the "IB diploma" has been the focus of an IB program for decades. Langley just started to offer one of the Capstone courses, and Woodson doesn't appear to offer Capstone yet at all.

But go ahead and try to muddy the water. It won't make IB, or Lewis, look one bit better.

My now college kid was recommended for capstone along with a lot of other kids.

Mine did not want to take it because that meant she would not be able to take both advanced theater and advanced chorus, so it was a hard pass for our family.

Most of the other kids invited felt the same way. They didn't want to drop their performing arts classes, or their extra math classes, or their academy classes.

But all of these kids graduated with many AP college credits, most of them are either graduating from college a year early due to AP classe. Or the AP classes gave them enough room in their schedule to double major in two rigorous programs.

AP should definitely be in those lower performing schools over IB.

The ability to knock out a demester or year of college is proceless for lower income families.

+1

FCHS is AP and many kids took advantage of college credit to save very much $ in tuition. I know kids who had a full year of tuition saved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regardless of the school’s name, an FCPS high school with an IB program that produces only four IB diploma recipients in a graduating class needs to pull the plug on IB. It’s nuts they think they are honoring John Lewis by associating his name with such poor achievement.

Achievement is not measured by IB diplomas alone.

And the faux “concern” for Lewis is pretty transparent.

C’mon. You know a high school IB program at a school with 400 or so seniors and only 4 IB diploma graduates sucks big time.

How many IB classes are being taken? How many juniors and seniors take 1, 2, 3, 4 or more IB classes during high school? Looking at IB diplomas awarded is only one metric and is not the best metric to use. Should FCPS high schools no longer offer AP classes if only have single-digit graduates with the Capstone?

One percent of graduates earning the AP Capstone shows terrible results at the top end, which likely are reflected in the other lower level metrics that you mentioned. And AP is no better for a la carte courses if that is the way they are going to be taken. AP is also less expensive. FCPS is not obligated to maintain two different sets of advanced courses. Simplify everything in the county by making all schools AP.

I would support a School Board candidate that pledged to take a serious look at IB. Unfortunately there are a few members who just won't give IB up.

Fixed the bolded for you.

DP, but that "fix" seems off. AP Capstone are two AP courses, but they aren't the centerpiece of the AP program in the same way the "IB diploma" has been the focus of an IB program for decades. Langley just started to offer one of the Capstone courses, and Woodson doesn't appear to offer Capstone yet at all.

But go ahead and try to muddy the water. It won't make IB, or Lewis, look one bit better.

My now college kid was recommended for capstone along with a lot of other kids.

Mine did not want to take it because that meant she would not be able to take both advanced theater and advanced chorus, so it was a hard pass for our family.

Most of the other kids invited felt the same way. They didn't want to drop their performing arts classes, or their extra math classes, or their academy classes.

But all of these kids graduated with many AP college credits, most of them are either graduating from college a year early due to AP classe. Or the AP classes gave them enough room in their schedule to double major in two rigorous programs.

The ability to knock out a demester or year of college is proceless for lower income families.

Literally everything here is true of IB and the reason kids might not pursue the full IB diploma.

Everything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regardless of the school’s name, an FCPS high school with an IB program that produces only four IB diploma recipients in a graduating class needs to pull the plug on IB. It’s nuts they think they are honoring John Lewis by associating his name with such poor achievement.

Achievement is not measured by IB diplomas alone.

And the faux “concern” for Lewis is pretty transparent.

C’mon. You know a high school IB program at a school with 400 or so seniors and only 4 IB diploma graduates sucks big time.

How many IB classes are being taken? How many juniors and seniors take 1, 2, 3, 4 or more IB classes during high school? Looking at IB diplomas awarded is only one metric and is not the best metric to use. Should FCPS high schools no longer offer AP classes if only have single-digit graduates with the Capstone?

One percent of graduates earning the AP Capstone shows terrible results at the top end, which likely are reflected in the other lower level metrics that you mentioned. And AP is no better for a la carte courses if that is the way they are going to be taken. AP is also less expensive. FCPS is not obligated to maintain two different sets of advanced courses. Simplify everything in the county by making all schools AP.

I would support a School Board candidate that pledged to take a serious look at IB. Unfortunately there are a few members who just won't give IB up.

Fixed the bolded for you.

DP, but that "fix" seems off. AP Capstone are two AP courses, but they aren't the centerpiece of the AP program in the same way the "IB diploma" has been the focus of an IB program for decades. Langley just started to offer one of the Capstone courses, and Woodson doesn't appear to offer Capstone yet at all.

But go ahead and try to muddy the water. It won't make IB, or Lewis, look one bit better.

My now college kid was recommended for capstone along with a lot of other kids.

Mine did not want to take it because that meant she would not be able to take both advanced theater and advanced chorus, so it was a hard pass for our family.

Most of the other kids invited felt the same way. They didn't want to drop their performing arts classes, or their extra math classes, or their academy classes.

But all of these kids graduated with many AP college credits, most of them are either graduating from college a year early due to AP classe. Or the AP classes gave them enough room in their schedule to double major in two rigorous programs.

AP should definitely be in those lower performing schools over IB.

The ability to knock out a demester or year of college is proceless for lower income families.

+1

FCHS is AP and many kids took advantage of college credit to save very much $ in tuition. I know kids who had a full year of tuition saved.

+2. The IB defender above is obstinate yet stupid at the same time.