Lia Thomas - Will this change college sports for women or a nothingburger?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are for women's rights, I believe you should be screaming from the mountain tops. This is so very wrong.

Amen

There are very few things I can think of to at are more privileged than a grown white man deciding hey, I’m trans, I’m now going to be a woman, call mr a woman, I’m biologically a woman, now I’m going to switch to the woman’s swimming category and you can’t stop me, it’s my right.

This person didn’t grow up a girl, have her period, get a pregnancy scare, get pregnant, have a baby, deal with cramps, etc. I don’t have any issue with her wanting to be called Lisa, dress how she wants, use whatever pronouns she wants, however she wants to live her life. But I do take issue with her suddenly demanding all rights that biological women have had to fight for since the beginning of time. And I have a MTF sibling. She’s great, I love her, but she was in shock with the double standard placed on women and was just expecting life to be the same but in different clothes. She just thinks that at 35 she can start wearing women’s clothes and grow out her hair and “truly understand what it’s like to be a woman”. Huh?!

Thank you for this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I saw a potential solution suggested on Facebook that might work for a sport like swimming. There could be an "open" or "mixed" category (which already exists at certain meets in USA swimming and US Masters swimming) that would include all biologically born men and trans women, and even biologically born women if they wish to compete in that category (someone like Ledecky could certainly hang). Maybe trans could be a special subcategory within the open/mixed category. Then a "biologically born female" category that is just for cis gender women. This would allow a trans athlete to be themselves and compete, without giving a potentially unfair advantage over biologically born women in terms of scoring and records. If someone is transitioning because they truly feel like they are in the wrong body, winning and breaking records is probably a secondary concern.

I think this trans category would be very tiny - maybe a swimmer sometimes in a few events...maybe.

Seems like a lot for a situation that would arise very rarely but if the swimming organizations want to do that that, ok I guess.

A small fraction - less than one percent of the population is trans and a only a fraction of that is female trans and only a fraction of that has any interest in athletics and only a fraction of that would actually have any athletic talent at all and only a fraction of that would have enough talent to be competitive.....just not very many people to cause all this intense hand wringing. Can't we spend our time and energy on more substantial problems?

This is like that CRT nonsense. It's an issue for political purposes temporarily and then poof...never hear about it again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not close to a record.

These are the NCAA women’s swimming records: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/swimming_rb/WomensSwimRecs.pdf

These are the meet results: https://gozips.com/documents/2021/12/3//2021_Zippy_Invite_friday_results.pdf?id=16731

Thompson’s 500 yard free style (4:34:06 ) was exactly 10 seconds slower than Ledckey’s (4:24.06).

No records in the other races:

Thomas 200 - 1:41.93
Thomas 100 - 49.02

No record maybe, but last year's D1 champion in 200 free was 1:42.36.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I saw a potential solution suggested on Facebook that might work for a sport like swimming. There could be an "open" or "mixed" category (which already exists at certain meets in USA swimming and US Masters swimming) that would include all biologically born men and trans women, and even biologically born women if they wish to compete in that category (someone like Ledecky could certainly hang). Maybe trans could be a special subcategory within the open/mixed category. Then a "biologically born female" category that is just for cis gender women. This would allow a trans athlete to be themselves and compete, without giving a potentially unfair advantage over biologically born women in terms of scoring and records. If someone is transitioning because they truly feel like they are in the wrong body, winning and breaking records is probably a secondary concern.

I think this trans category would be very tiny - maybe a swimmer sometimes in a few events...maybe.

Seems like a lot for a situation that would arise very rarely but if the swimming organizations want to do that that, ok I guess.

A small fraction - less than one percent of the population is trans and a only a fraction of that is female trans and only a fraction of that has any interest in athletics and only a fraction of that would actually have any athletic talent at all and only a fraction of that would have enough talent to be competitive.....just not very many people to cause all this intense hand wringing. Can't we spend our time and energy on more substantial problems?

This is like that CRT nonsense. It's an issue for political purposes temporarily and then poof...never hear about it again.

But. but but aren't we supposed to wail and gnash our teeth that a trans athlete is in the swimming pool? Oh my. What ever shall we do? Fake crap as all ways from these idiots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I saw a potential solution suggested on Facebook that might work for a sport like swimming. There could be an "open" or "mixed" category (which already exists at certain meets in USA swimming and US Masters swimming) that would include all biologically born men and trans women, and even biologically born women if they wish to compete in that category (someone like Ledecky could certainly hang). Maybe trans could be a special subcategory within the open/mixed category. Then a "biologically born female" category that is just for cis gender women. This would allow a trans athlete to be themselves and compete, without giving a potentially unfair advantage over biologically born women in terms of scoring and records. If someone is transitioning because they truly feel like they are in the wrong body, winning and breaking records is probably a secondary concern.

I think this trans category would be very tiny - maybe a swimmer sometimes in a few events...maybe.

Seems like a lot for a situation that would arise very rarely but if the swimming organizations want to do that that, ok I guess.

A small fraction - less than one percent of the population is trans and a only a fraction of that is female trans and only a fraction of that has any interest in athletics and only a fraction of that would actually have any athletic talent at all and only a fraction of that would have enough talent to be competitive.....just not very many people to cause all this intense hand wringing. Can't we spend our time and energy on more substantial problems?

This is like that CRT nonsense. It's an issue for political purposes temporarily and then poof...never hear about it again.

Just wait. It's only getting started.

[Anonymous]

Of course this is rare occurrence. You can’t find many examples of athletes cheating at the college level. How many instances does a sport need to recognize unfair advantages. Since there is no measurable way to determine whether a biological male is transgender, other than their own personal testimony, they should be allowed to only compete as the gender to which they were born. This will prevent discrimination of female athletes who will be removed from the playing field of biological males are allowed to compete. This should not require evidence beyond one’s common sense but if that is lacking simply look at the times of the slowest male on every Div 1 swimming program . The worst mens college swimmer would be the best on every program in the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Of course this is rare occurrence. You can’t find many examples of athletes cheating at the college level. How many instances does a sport need to recognize unfair advantages. Since there is no measurable way to determine whether a biological male is transgender, other than their own personal testimony, they should be allowed to only compete as the gender to which they were born. This will prevent discrimination of female athletes who will be removed from the playing field of biological males are allowed to compete. This should not require evidence beyond one’s common sense but if that is lacking simply look at the times of the slowest male on every Div 1 swimming program . The worst mens college swimmer would be the best on every program in the world.

Holy drama queen. Relax.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are for women's rights, I believe you should be screaming from the mountain tops. This is so very wrong.

Amen

There are very few things I can think of to at are more privileged than a grown white man deciding hey, I’m trans, I’m now going to be a woman, call mr a woman, I’m biologically a woman, now I’m going to switch to the woman’s swimming category and you can’t stop me, it’s my right.

This person didn’t grow up a girl, have her period, get a pregnancy scare, get pregnant, have a baby, deal with cramps, etc. I don’t have any issue with her wanting to be called Lisa, dress how she wants, use whatever pronouns she wants, however she wants to live her life. But I do take issue with her suddenly demanding all rights that biological women have had to fight for since the beginning of time. And I have a MTF sibling. She’s great, I love her, but she was in shock with the double standard placed on women and was just expecting life to be the same but in different clothes. She just thinks that at 35 she can start wearing women’s clothes and grow out her hair and “truly understand what it’s like to be a woman”. Huh?!

Completely agree to all of this. And women are expected to sit back and accept it because their feelings and concerns are less important than those of a male.

[Anonymous]

Can you imagine what will happen when one of these dudes makes it to the WNBA and scores 40 points in his first game? You think that’s not coming?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I saw a potential solution suggested on Facebook that might work for a sport like swimming. There could be an "open" or "mixed" category (which already exists at certain meets in USA swimming and US Masters swimming) that would include all biologically born men and trans women, and even biologically born women if they wish to compete in that category (someone like Ledecky could certainly hang). Maybe trans could be a special subcategory within the open/mixed category. Then a "biologically born female" category that is just for cis gender women. This would allow a trans athlete to be themselves and compete, without giving a potentially unfair advantage over biologically born women in terms of scoring and records. If someone is transitioning because they truly feel like they are in the wrong body, winning and breaking records is probably a secondary concern.

I think this trans category would be very tiny - maybe a swimmer sometimes in a few events...maybe.

Seems like a lot for a situation that would arise very rarely but if the swimming organizations want to do that that, ok I guess.

A small fraction - less than one percent of the population is trans and a only a fraction of that is female trans and only a fraction of that has any interest in athletics and only a fraction of that would actually have any athletic talent at all and only a fraction of that would have enough talent to be competitive.....just not very many people to cause all this intense hand wringing. Can't we spend our time and energy on more substantial problems?

This is like that CRT nonsense. It's an issue for political purposes temporarily and then poof...never hear about it again.

But. but but aren't we supposed to wail and gnash our teeth that a trans athlete is in the swimming pool? Oh my. What ever shall we do? Fake crap as all ways from these idiots.

Such an intelligent, nuanced and thought provoking post. I can now see the error of my ways. You’ve convinced me there is no controversy to be had here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10282301/Transgender-UPenn-swimmer-Lia-Thomas-smashes-records-weekend-meets-14-SECONDS-ahead-rival.html

Twitter is going crazy about Lia Thomas’ record-setting performance last weekend. Do you think she is a unicorn and we should all just calm down or is it likely that women who were born male fundamentally change college sports and scholarships?

Not fundamentally because stories like this are exceedingly rare. But for the athletes in these particular swimming events, this is a difficult situation.

Exceedingly rare now, but wait 5-10 years. That is OP's whole point.

A "difficult situation?" That's the best you can do?

what do you want? My kid is not the strongest athlete in her sport. She competes hard. there was one transgender kid on the team who was not talented at all regardless of gender...which is typical. most people are not gifted athletes.

I don't think this is a common situation at all. That swimmer was transgender AND a good athlete. That is a rare combination.

The transgender males could have a physical disadvantage in sports competitions when trying to compete against male athletes. That is what it is.

I dont understand what you want? where are these people supposed to compete?

Where is a person who simply is my hood enough supposed to compete? They don’t. That what competitive sports are. There is no natural right to compete I the highest level of a sport. If trans kids want to compete then they just like women and men they should form their own trans league and compete against other trans folks. Else let’s just eliminate all division based on gender

[Anonymous]

** “my hood” is supposed to be “not good”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10282301/Transgender-UPenn-swimmer-Lia-Thomas-smashes-records-weekend-meets-14-SECONDS-ahead-rival.html

Twitter is going crazy about Lia Thomas’ record-setting performance last weekend. Do you think she is a unicorn and we should all just calm down or is it likely that women who were born male fundamentally change college sports and scholarships?

Not fundamentally because stories like this are exceedingly rare. But for the athletes in these particular swimming events, this is a difficult situation.

Exceedingly rare now, but wait 5-10 years. That is OP's whole point.

A "difficult situation?" That's the best you can do?

what do you want? My kid is not the strongest athlete in her sport. She competes hard. there was one transgender kid on the team who was not talented at all regardless of gender...which is typical. most people are not gifted athletes.

I don't think this is a common situation at all. That swimmer was transgender AND a good athlete. That is a rare combination.

The transgender males could have a physical disadvantage in sports competitions when trying to compete against male athletes. That is what it is.

I dont understand what you want? where are these people supposed to compete?

Where is a person who simply is my hood enough supposed to compete? They don’t. That what competitive sports are. There is no natural right to compete I the highest level of a sport. If trans kids want to compete then they just like women and men they should form their own trans league and compete against other trans folks. Else let’s just eliminate all division based on gender

+1. Women’s sports are not Plan B for male flunkies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10282301/Transgender-UPenn-swimmer-Lia-Thomas-smashes-records-weekend-meets-14-SECONDS-ahead-rival.html

Twitter is going crazy about Lia Thomas’ record-setting performance last weekend. Do you think she is a unicorn and we should all just calm down or is it likely that women who were born male fundamentally change college sports and scholarships?

Not fundamentally because stories like this are exceedingly rare. But for the athletes in these particular swimming events, this is a difficult situation.

Exceedingly rare now, but wait 5-10 years. That is OP's whole point.

A "difficult situation?" That's the best you can do?

what do you want? My kid is not the strongest athlete in her sport. She competes hard. there was one transgender kid on the team who was not talented at all regardless of gender...which is typical. most people are not gifted athletes.

I don't think this is a common situation at all. That swimmer was transgender AND a good athlete. That is a rare combination.

The transgender males could have a physical disadvantage in sports competitions when trying to compete against male athletes. That is what it is.

I dont understand what you want? where are these people supposed to compete?

Birth sex only. Obviously

Sports were separated by biological birth sex, not gender, because of biological/physical differences (on average). Now we are permitting anyone of any gender to compete as the birth sex they choose regardless of their actual birth sex. The "transgender sports issue" is one of the most prominent examples of the trans rights movement moving from "gender identity is separate from biological sex" to "if you identify as a woman, you are a biological woman." I'm not sure how long it will take, but it seems obvious that if this course continues, eventually transwomen will hold the records in every single woman's sport.

Well not this one. Lisa did not beat the Olympic or world record. And that will only happen if some transgender athlete comes along that is good enough which is statistically unlikely. Did not a transgender weight lifter at the olympics fail to win anything?

This seems cavalier when we are talking about a national record. First, it will be the high school records -- state, regional, then national, which is already happening. Then it will move to college, like this swimmer. Eventually, world records.

There will be male sports, with male record holders, and female sports, with male record holders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not close to a record.

These are the NCAA women’s swimming records: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/swimming_rb/WomensSwimRecs.pdf

These are the meet results: https://gozips.com/documents/2021/12/3//2021_Zippy_Invite_friday_results.pdf?id=16731

Thompson’s 500 yard free style (4:34:06 ) was exactly 10 seconds slower than Ledckey’s (4:24.06).

No records in the other races:

Thomas 200 - 1:41.93
Thomas 100 - 49.02

So, the article is poorly written and wrong? I’m not going to dig and fact check, but it seems she broke some combination of Penn team, Ivy League, Zippy meet, and whichever Akron pool records, correct? She did not break any NCAA or USAS records?