Lia Thomas - Will this change college sports for women or a nothingburger?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Question.....

Have there been any instances of biological women who identify as men competing in male sports and sweeping the field, setting records, and winning all events?

I had the same question. I googled it and could not find anything that stood out. I do find it unusual that it does seem like biological men want who identify as women want to jump into the women's arena of competition, where you don't see the same with biological women identifying as men doing the same.

I find it crappy. And it makes me lean towards mental issues to want to do that. And as for the poster saying feminist don't care, we do, very much. But the ultra liberals have a crazy agenda (I will say that ultras on both sides have crazy agendas) and are trying to vilify anyone who questions trans "rights." The kicker is that women are starting to question it and it confuses the narrative. Women are not a group in power and are very much still subjugated on many levels. So how do you kick a group that is already down to allow another to step on their backs and keep them down?

[Anonymous]

Watched and read the comments from swimswam. I do think that there is mental illness there.

Also, interesting is the comments are just as heated as this thread.

https://swimswam.com/penns-lia-thomas-opens-up-on-journey-transition-to-womens-swimming/

[Anonymous]

https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/penn-parents-express-further-concerns-over-lia-thomas-competing-on-womens-team/


https://nypost.com/2021/12/20/editor-says-penn-trans-swimmer-lia-thomas-unfair-advantage-is-akin-to-doping/

Here is hoping for some change, keep shaking that tree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Watched and read the comments from swimswam. I do think that there is mental illness there.

Also, interesting is the comments are just as heated as this thread.

https://swimswam.com/penns-lia-thomas-opens-up-on-journey-transition-to-womens-swimming/

Has to be a mental illness.

Honestly, I work in a psych facility, and I really do think it’s a mental illness. I think there is so much pressure from activist groups that they literally can’t label it as one or there would be serious backlash.

I have diagnosed anxiety and am medicated for it because IT IS A MENTAL ILLNESS. You know why? Because it’s not normal to have panic attacks and go through life worrying about everything and have a near constant racing heart at the thought of something mildly negative. Once again, that’s NOT THE NORM. Hence why it requires treatment and medication. And people think feeling like you’re born in the wrong body is completely normal? I just don’t get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who thinks college swimmers, or college athletes in any sport, hang with more than a handful of their teammates has no clue about college athletics. That’s frankly hilarious.

The times they know are the times they need to hit - to keep their lane, to stay in an event, to qualify for a final, a meet or a trial. What anyone else does - they do. It’s one of the things about timed sports.

Did you think it’s about “the team”? It’s way, way, way too much work to be about “the team”. A coach will enter whoever is swimming the best times in practice. Don’t swim well? See ya.

The athletes do the same thing now as well. There’s going to be 20-30 college football players who do not dress for bowl games. Why? Don’t want to risk getting hurt or doing something that hurts their draft position. My undergrad Alma mater is playing in a bowl this year and both schools have their two best players sitting. It’s now basically the Spring game. But, no one would pay them $10M if they got hurt so they sit. That’s how the game is played.

Keep digging your heels in PP. Your posts get more and more amusing as the day rolls on. I’ll have sore abs at the end of the day from laughing so hard at this rate.

Give it up. Obvious you know nothing about sports above a little kid level. Go pout about the men’s basketball team sitting for the anthem.

Oooh you got me there!
Not really. My 15 yo competitive swimmer would beg to differ. I mean, how could she possibly know as much as you do?!?

She doesn’t. Nor should she. She’s a kid. Step into college swim (or any college sport for that matter) and things are immediately very very different. The athlete works for the coach and the school. Your kid, if they swim in college, needs to follow the team rules, do well academically, shut up and never complain, and consistently improve. Virginia won the NCAAs last year. They have 4 Seniors on this years team. Go back 4 years. How many freshman started off? Nine. And, that’s a pretty good attrition rate. It’s worse in lots of competitive programs. Though most coaches will shoot for 50% over time.

My oldest daughter played 4 years of college soccer. She was one of the survivors. She won the Coaches Award her Junior and Senior years representing team leadership. She well tell that in 4 years of playing, the head coach maybe spoke directly to her less than 30 minutes. That’s counting during games, as well as before and after games. During practices, before and after practices. On road trips. In PT. In the weightroom. Wherever. As a parent, you can say “hey coach who is it going”, if you happen to run into him/her and that is about it. With the younger one swimming now it is the same, but she has the advantage of having an older sister who played a sport in college.

So - older teammates want your kid to help the team, as long as their role does not hurt them. Every athlete will first, second and third want to compete. That is way more important than the team winning. It’s great to win, and losing will mean changes that could very well mean less chance to swim/play/race. But, if it were to come down to a choice between the team winning the game or meet, or them playing/swimming they will choose playing/swimming every single time.

Your daughter had a bad experience. My college coach and my husband’s college coach were at our wedding, we visit every time we are in town, and our teammates were our best friends in college. Many still are. It is very sad that your daughter had this experience, but it isn’t normal.

She had a very typical women's college athlete experience. Frainkly, it is the only experience for athletes outside of football and basketball. What you refer to in your post is what happens after you are done being on the team. My daughter's coach is a reference on her resume today (3 years removed). He is a good guy, but like all coaches, he is never a friend or counselor to athletes on his/her team. Why? Because he/she needs to make decisions that can be difficult for players like disciplining, benching or cutting them. And, like you, she is friendly with two or three women from her team who came in with her as freshmen, as is her fiance with a couple guys from the men's team. Again -- normal. However, the standard adage is true -- "There are no I's in team, but there are two in playing time."

I should add -- given the time requirements for a D1 sport year round, you had better get along with a few teammates or you are done very quickly. But, just like in high school, players who are in their Junior and Senior years have little interest, and frankly no time, to hang out with freshmen/sophomores. My kid says that she was voted the "Team Mom" her senior year, mostly because she did not just ignore the freshmen off the field.

I would say that is very consistent with daughter 2's swim experience so far. Knock wood covid allows for a full swim season.


I was a D1 swimmer. You truly have NO idea what you are talking about. None at all. The teams tend to be very close knit. Half the swimmers from the men’s and women’s teams date each other — it’s called swimcest. It’s often a work hard play (party) hard mentality for those who like to go out (less so during the season but definitely in the off season). There is often drama because everyone spends so much time together. But it’s a lot of fun.

You seem to be talking about one of your kids’ experiences on a team for a different sport, and you HS swimmer’s experience. Neither give you any sort of insight into a D1 swim team. I’m embarrassed for you.

Read again. You follow right along with the post. No -- Seniors and Juniors do not "party" with freshmen. That's stupid. Yes, guys and girls in every sport (other than basketball) socialize, because they keep the same schedules and use the same facilities. Most college students do not keep those schedules. Swimming has the advantage and disadvantage of being an individual sport. Swim well individually and you also help the team. Do poorly and you hurt the team as well as yourself, No -- the head coach is not going to cut much slack to anyone. Want to get kicked off the team? Easy -- (a) Don't swim and improve as expected (2) Don't meet team rules for attendance/practice more than a couple of times (3) Don't meet school expectations for grades and advancement for the swim team (4) create any sort of problem for the coach. That could be an MIP or DUI, participate in a fight, screw up with teammates, mouth off to staff/administrators. Simply put; there is no slack for swimmers (who are not also Olympic medal winners - that would be an exception). It's not a revenue sport (men's or women's) so the job of the coach is to compete reasonably well, raise a decent amount of money to keep the program going, and produce teams that the AD can use to boost athletic numbers, like overall GPA and brag a bit about to donors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who thinks college swimmers, or college athletes in any sport, hang with more than a handful of their teammates has no clue about college athletics. That’s frankly hilarious.

The times they know are the times they need to hit - to keep their lane, to stay in an event, to qualify for a final, a meet or a trial. What anyone else does - they do. It’s one of the things about timed sports.

Did you think it’s about “the team”? It’s way, way, way too much work to be about “the team”. A coach will enter whoever is swimming the best times in practice. Don’t swim well? See ya.

The athletes do the same thing now as well. There’s going to be 20-30 college football players who do not dress for bowl games. Why? Don’t want to risk getting hurt or doing something that hurts their draft position. My undergrad Alma mater is playing in a bowl this year and both schools have their two best players sitting. It’s now basically the Spring game. But, no one would pay them $10M if they got hurt so they sit. That’s how the game is played.

Keep digging your heels in PP. Your posts get more and more amusing as the day rolls on. I’ll have sore abs at the end of the day from laughing so hard at this rate.

Give it up. Obvious you know nothing about sports above a little kid level. Go pout about the men’s basketball team sitting for the anthem.

Oooh you got me there!
Not really. My 15 yo competitive swimmer would beg to differ. I mean, how could she possibly know as much as you do?!?

She doesn’t. Nor should she. She’s a kid. Step into college swim (or any college sport for that matter) and things are immediately very very different. The athlete works for the coach and the school. Your kid, if they swim in college, needs to follow the team rules, do well academically, shut up and never complain, and consistently improve. Virginia won the NCAAs last year. They have 4 Seniors on this years team. Go back 4 years. How many freshman started off? Nine. And, that’s a pretty good attrition rate. It’s worse in lots of competitive programs. Though most coaches will shoot for 50% over time.

My oldest daughter played 4 years of college soccer. She was one of the survivors. She won the Coaches Award her Junior and Senior years representing team leadership. She well tell that in 4 years of playing, the head coach maybe spoke directly to her less than 30 minutes. That’s counting during games, as well as before and after games. During practices, before and after practices. On road trips. In PT. In the weightroom. Wherever. As a parent, you can say “hey coach who is it going”, if you happen to run into him/her and that is about it. With the younger one swimming now it is the same, but she has the advantage of having an older sister who played a sport in college.

So - older teammates want your kid to help the team, as long as their role does not hurt them. Every athlete will first, second and third want to compete. That is way more important than the team winning. It’s great to win, and losing will mean changes that could very well mean less chance to swim/play/race. But, if it were to come down to a choice between the team winning the game or meet, or them playing/swimming they will choose playing/swimming every single time.

Your daughter had a bad experience. My college coach and my husband’s college coach were at our wedding, we visit every time we are in town, and our teammates were our best friends in college. Many still are. It is very sad that your daughter had this experience, but it isn’t normal.

She had a very typical women's college athlete experience. Frainkly, it is the only experience for athletes outside of football and basketball. What you refer to in your post is what happens after you are done being on the team. My daughter's coach is a reference on her resume today (3 years removed). He is a good guy, but like all coaches, he is never a friend or counselor to athletes on his/her team. Why? Because he/she needs to make decisions that can be difficult for players like disciplining, benching or cutting them. And, like you, she is friendly with two or three women from her team who came in with her as freshmen, as is her fiance with a couple guys from the men's team. Again -- normal. However, the standard adage is true -- "There are no I's in team, but there are two in playing time."

I should add -- given the time requirements for a D1 sport year round, you had better get along with a few teammates or you are done very quickly. But, just like in high school, players who are in their Junior and Senior years have little interest, and frankly no time, to hang out with freshmen/sophomores. My kid says that she was voted the "Team Mom" her senior year, mostly because she did not just ignore the freshmen off the field.

I would say that is very consistent with daughter 2's swim experience so far. Knock wood covid allows for a full swim season.

Umm, I was there and my teammates were my best friends in college. My coach was part of my daily life. And I was at a D1 school in a women’s non-basketball sport. Same for my husband (not football/basketball). You’ll never be convinced otherwise, but for anyone else reading this thread, pp’s daughter’s experience is disappointing, but not the norm. Your daughter missed the best part of sports if she thinks PT is more important than team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They don’t care and have no interest in spending any time learning. Odds are worse than 50/50 that any college senior on a swim team even knows the names of the freshman on the team. Don’t care. They are freshmen. Don’t screw up the relay is all they want freshmen to do.

In season - as we are now - it’s get up, put on sweats, eat, go to pool. Stretch and swim. Finish, shower and get to class. Eat. Class/study until p.m. practice. Get to pool, do work that coaches assign. Work with coaches (either a.m. or p.m.), shower, back to dorm/apt eat - socialize/study. Bed. Rinse wash repeat. Out of season - drop one pool session but pick up “voluntary” weight/strength conditioning. Swimmers, like all college athletes, know the teammates they came in with and who continue to stick it out, maybe a few more kids on the team, and some kids they meet in class/dorm. That’s about it for all athletes. Not unique to swim though swim and c-country are similar in not having much socialization between teammates.

So TLDR, It’s a big who cares. Swim as fast as you can and that will win or not. They all are shooting for a time that will get them into a league final or the Olympic trials. (League final in a good conference will be tougher to hit.)

Get lost, autogynephile. I recognize your writing style. You are an every single thread on trans people calling names, derailing the conversation with irrelevancies, doing everything and anything to avoid a discussion of the fact that you and your penis don’t belong in women’s sports and spaces.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who thinks college swimmers, or college athletes in any sport, hang with more than a handful of their teammates has no clue about college athletics. That’s frankly hilarious.

The times they know are the times they need to hit - to keep their lane, to stay in an event, to qualify for a final, a meet or a trial. What anyone else does - they do. It’s one of the things about timed sports.

Did you think it’s about “the team”? It’s way, way, way too much work to be about “the team”. A coach will enter whoever is swimming the best times in practice. Don’t swim well? See ya.

The athletes do the same thing now as well. There’s going to be 20-30 college football players who do not dress for bowl games. Why? Don’t want to risk getting hurt or doing something that hurts their draft position. My undergrad Alma mater is playing in a bowl this year and both schools have their two best players sitting. It’s now basically the Spring game. But, no one would pay them $10M if they got hurt so they sit. That’s how the game is played.

Wtf does this rant have to do with the unfairness of a male-bodied person competing in female sports?

Thank you. PP is an autogynephile trans-identifying male threatened by the fact that society won’t play along with his farce.

[Anonymous]

The media blackout on this Lia Thomas scandal is extremely creepy. Not a peep in the NY Times, the Atlantic. No coverage at all on CNN. This is deliberate and the antithesis of what responsible media should be doing — presenting the news of the day.

I think it’s telling that the Democrats who bulldozed this trans agenda through can’t defend the sham competition their agenda has produced.

It’s also increasingly hard to decry the crazy partisanship of Fox News when ostensibly “neutral” media is guilty of the same. These are scary times.

I don’t know who to vote for or which issue should be decisive. Democrats will collude with men plunder all the benefits women should enjoy. Republicans will collude with the religious to turn women into broodmares. Lunatics and ill-intentioned grifters on all sides.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The media blackout on this Lia Thomas scandal is extremely creepy. Not a peep in the NY Times, the Atlantic. No coverage at all on CNN. This is deliberate and the antithesis of what responsible media should be doing — presenting the news of the day.

I think it’s telling that the Democrats who bulldozed this trans agenda through can’t defend the sham competition their agenda has produced.

It’s also increasingly hard to decry the crazy partisanship of Fox News when ostensibly “neutral” media is guilty of the same. These are scary times.

I don’t know who to vote for or which issue should be decisive. Democrats will collude with men plunder all the benefits women should enjoy. Republicans will collude with the religious to turn women into broodmares. Lunatics and ill-intentioned grifters on all sides.

Yup, can’t find this story mentioned in any of my usual go-to’s. Even ESPN hasn’t covered it. Not a good look to let the story run wild on internet message boards and right wing media.

[Anonymous]

This is an excellent piece by former Olympian and champion for women athletes, Nancy Hogshead.
https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/olympic-champion-womens-sports-advocate-nancy-hogshead-makar-explains-problems-with-lia-thomas-situation/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is an excellent piece by former Olympian and champion for women athletes, Nancy Hogshead.
https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/olympic-champion-womens-sports-advocate-nancy-hogshead-makar-explains-problems-with-lia-thomas-situation/

I’m glad someone with her credentials spoke up. I hope people listen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an excellent piece by former Olympian and champion for women athletes, Nancy Hogshead.
https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/olympic-champion-womens-sports-advocate-nancy-hogshead-makar-explains-problems-with-lia-thomas-situation/

I’m glad someone with her credentials spoke up. I hope people listen.

Nobody will listen. Nobody cares about women losing opportunities. I’m sorry, but that is the reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an excellent piece by former Olympian and champion for women athletes, Nancy Hogshead.
https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/olympic-champion-womens-sports-advocate-nancy-hogshead-makar-explains-problems-with-lia-thomas-situation/

I’m glad someone with her credentials spoke up. I hope people listen.

Nobody will listen. Nobody cares about women losing opportunities. I’m sorry, but that is the reality.

Really the trans activists should care. Allowing a transgender woman to participate in women’s sports is engendering enemies in people who otherwise would support the trans community.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an excellent piece by former Olympian and champion for women athletes, Nancy Hogshead.
https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/olympic-champion-womens-sports-advocate-nancy-hogshead-makar-explains-problems-with-lia-thomas-situation/

I’m glad someone with her credentials spoke up. I hope people listen.

Nobody will listen. Nobody cares about women losing opportunities. I’m sorry, but that is the reality.

Really the trans activists should care. Allowing a transgender woman to participate in women’s sports is engendering enemies in people who otherwise would support the trans community.

They don’t care because it’s a community that revolves around the desires of men (trans women) and wannabe men (trans men). The most backwards and aggressive bunch imaginable. Speaking as a woman who once passionately defended trans people, their hatred of women has turned me into an enemy in the past couple of years.