What is women’s obsession with “well-educated” men?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's a class issue. I have a graduate degree from a fancy school and grew up in a wealthy area, so I know a lot of UMC folks pretty well. But, my parents did not go to college, worked blue collar jobs, and were not into the whole UMC social scene. As a result, I know lots of people who are not "well educated" but read plenty, have diverse interests, and can hold their own in an intellectual conversation. They just did not go to college and do not work professional jobs. I also know lots of UMC women who would never consider dating any of those people, because they are not "well educated." The women will say it's about "ability to hold a conversation," but either they are ignorant or they are not being honest; plenty of these folks can hold a conversation. Instead, it really seems that they want someone who will fit in with their family and friends and is not too different. This is a class issue.

+1

It is also a class issue in that there are SO many social climbers, in this geographical area, especially. It is sad to see in action. I would want a guy who could see through this.

What’s the difference between a “social climber” and someone moving up in SES successfully though their profession? Or are they the same?

What makes a social climber a social climber? The attitude and incessant social engineering and butt kissing? Or having a good job, kids in private school and/or joining a recreation/golf club for sports and classes and community?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Well-educated" = financially well off. The same as when women say they want a man who is "ambitious".

NP here. I think this is a common misnomer. a.) "well educated" does not equate rich, at all. I know guys who graduated from HYPSM, and their wives handle everything. I know women who graduated from HYPSM, and they can multi task like their lives depend on it. Women are generally better at multitasking.

b.) I think women should educate themselves and look out for themselves. Women who "need" this or that - whether it be an "educated" man (this week, next week it will be something else - the "white kitchen syndrome") and lacking in reasoning skills and general life skills - and simply do not know how to be happy. Apparently, this kind of woman thinks such a man "validates" them. On top of that, such women have nothing to bring to the table except their insecurities and general ineptitude.

c.) One example - I was out for dinner recently with some HYPSM couples, and a non HYPSM wife chimed in - "doesn't so and so (HYPSM man) have patents (plural), and sell companies and have stocks/bonds and isn't he a millionaire?" We all broke out laughing because we know the couple she was referring to, and the wife is the one with the degrees (and the high grades - the husband almost flunked out, more than once!). There are no patents (none), no stocks and/or bonds (zilch), or payouts (zero). In fact, the wife and wife's family is the one with money and successful businesses. If they divorced, the man she was referring to (apparently the woman asking sees him as some sort of means to an end, if not "perfect" LOL) would have nothing, quite literally. But, shallow people would not see this for what it really is, because they don't know better than to only think it is the man who brought something to the table. It doesn't occur to shallow women that another woman has something to offer (looks and/or money and/or brains/education and/or special background/s and/or interesting life/hobbies/intellectual interests- sometimes all of the above). Women sometimes criticize/gossip to their own detriment.

The funny part is, it seems (the woman who asked) thinks (the guy she asked about) is her "plan B" (or "C", or "D", depending how many times she has married by now - there are more women like that, sadly so). There are women who literally see nothing wrong with spending an inordinate number of nights hanging out in high end hotel bars for this reason. You don't believe it, until you see it. It is sad that some women reduce themselves to what they "think" a man is worth. It is more sad when they are dead wrong, and end up unhappy, yet again. The old adage that "you can't buy happiness" rings true.

d.) What it comes down to, is that some women grew up poor, ashamed of who they are, and are deathly afraid of being poor - and maybe people finding out the truth. So, sadly they cling onto fables of finding the rich guy - bonus points if that woman thinks he is "perfect" (which they do think, because they don't have the sense to know better). In fact, he doesn't really exist.

There is a whole psychology behind this. It boils down to well, let's just say, I would tell my sons to run - fast and very far away from a woman like this.

I cannot get past a). It is so condescending to say that a woman who wants somebody who is well-educated is going to ignore a lack of good reasoning skills or generally life skills. And if you say that wanting to have things in common with your partner means you don’t know how to be happy, you need to learn more about how relationships work. Can two people with vastly different educational backgrounds make it work? Sure! Is it harder and something that somebody just might not want to have to work on! Probably!

Point taken that people can be different, but that is far more work that the lazy rich sniffing women want to put forth. If that's not you, fine - but it is the example I gave above. No one wants to hang out with her any more because she is so shallow and has so little to add to the conversation, on top of that. The two factors are not a good mix. Sitting there quizzing a HYPSM woman or man is no life, its drudgery, and the person being quizzed does not enjoy it, in my experience.

[Anonymous]

Well educated men don’t necessarily are well educated to raise children. I’m saying this from personal experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well educated men don’t necessarily are well educated to raise children. I’m saying this from personal experience.

Yeah gasp look at their divorce rates. My brother didn't graduate college yet but my ex sis in law wanted a divorce soon after she graduated nursing school even with a 4 yr old at the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's a class issue. I have a graduate degree from a fancy school and grew up in a wealthy area, so I know a lot of UMC folks pretty well. But, my parents did not go to college, worked blue collar jobs, and were not into the whole UMC social scene. As a result, I know lots of people who are not "well educated" but read plenty, have diverse interests, and can hold their own in an intellectual conversation. They just did not go to college and do not work professional jobs. I also know lots of UMC women who would never consider dating any of those people, because they are not "well educated." The women will say it's about "ability to hold a conversation," but either they are ignorant or they are not being honest; plenty of these folks can hold a conversation. Instead, it really seems that they want someone who will fit in with their family and friends and is not too different. This is a class issue.

+1

It is also a class issue in that there are SO many social climbers, in this geographical area, especially. It is sad to see in action. I would want a guy who could see through this.

What’s the difference between a “social climber” and someone moving up in SES successfully though their profession? Or are they the same?

What makes a social climber a social climber? The attitude and incessant social engineering and butt kissing? Or having a good job, kids in private school and/or joining a recreation/golf club for sports and classes and community?

If you are educating and getting good jobs yourself, that is one thing. If you are waiting to be a SAHM and add very little to the mix, that is quite another. Planning trips you want to go on, and ordering furniture, while you add nothing is no way to be an interesting person.

This is not a knock on SAHMs, I know some that are capable. But it is a knock on the women or men who bring nothing to the table, but "need" a rich spouse. That is gross.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's a class issue. I have a graduate degree from a fancy school and grew up in a wealthy area, so I know a lot of UMC folks pretty well. But, my parents did not go to college, worked blue collar jobs, and were not into the whole UMC social scene. As a result, I know lots of people who are not "well educated" but read plenty, have diverse interests, and can hold their own in an intellectual conversation. They just did not go to college and do not work professional jobs. I also know lots of UMC women who would never consider dating any of those people, because they are not "well educated." The women will say it's about "ability to hold a conversation," but either they are ignorant or they are not being honest; plenty of these folks can hold a conversation. Instead, it really seems that they want someone who will fit in with their family and friends and is not too different. This is a class issue.

+1

It is also a class issue in that there are SO many social climbers, in this geographical area, especially. It is sad to see in action. I would want a guy who could see through this.

What’s the difference between a “social climber” and someone moving up in SES successfully though their profession? Or are they the same?

What makes a social climber a social climber? The attitude and incessant social engineering and butt kissing? Or having a good job, kids in private school and/or joining a recreation/golf club for sports and classes and community?

Depends why they join the golf club or private school. I know many people (mostly women) who join for the "social" aspects. ie: social climbing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well educated men don’t necessarily are well educated to raise children. I’m saying this from personal experience.

My old college roommate was a math prodigy and has the degrees to back it up. He's was a shitty dad and a worse husband -- at least to his first two wives. (Maybe third time is a charm!)

That said, a woman who is playing the odds stands a better chance with an educated man than an un-educated man.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well educated men don’t necessarily are well educated to raise children. I’m saying this from personal experience.

My old college roommate was a math prodigy and has the degrees to back it up. He's was a shitty dad and a worse husband -- at least to his first two wives. (Maybe third time is a charm!)

That said, a woman who is playing the odds stands a better chance with an educated man than an un-educated man.

+1

Yup. Relationships and humans are not their strong suit, sadly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it's a class issue. I have a graduate degree from a fancy school and grew up in a wealthy area, so I know a lot of UMC folks pretty well. But, my parents did not go to college, worked blue collar jobs, and were not into the whole UMC social scene. As a result, I know lots of people who are not "well educated" but read plenty, have diverse interests, and can hold their own in an intellectual conversation. They just did not go to college and do not work professional jobs. I also know lots of UMC women who would never consider dating any of those people, because they are not "well educated." The women will say it's about "ability to hold a conversation," but either they are ignorant or they are not being honest; plenty of these folks can hold a conversation. Instead, it really seems that they want someone who will fit in with their family and friends and is not too different. This is a class issue.

A degree is like a form of insurance.

If you are blue collar and the economy turns, you lose a job, etc. it’s harder to find work. Even Starbucks baristas have college degrees.

If you have a college degree it helps and if you have a graduate or professional degree it’s even more insurance (unless your loan debt is outrageous ).

It’s a tribe. Are you comfortable in a crowd with guys friends that didn’t finish high school or go to college and likely their girlfriends/wives too? I dated a few guys in 20s who never went to college and the women and crowd they hung out with I did not have much in common.

My husband came from a blue collar neighborhood, grew up very poor but got $ to go to a top university, speaks 3 languages fluently is well-read, Renaissance man that travels extensively. We can from different worlds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a spin-off of another thread where a late 30s woman was asking how to meet men, and of course mentions the “well-educated” criterion multiple times.

I just don’t get this. And I should preface this by saying I’m a guy with an Ivy degree. But would you ladies not consider someone who owns his own construction business or a few Subway franchises and earns $150,000 per year? (Or we could make it 15 Subway franchises and an income of $600,000 if that is your requirement.) This is not about income – that part I understand.

But why the obsession with “well-educated” men? Do you not understand that for many people, going to college/graduate school is a terrible life decision? I mean, there was a recent article about NYU film grads coming out of the Master’s program with $30,000/year jobs and $250,000 in debt. Surely women in their late 30s recognize that the dating market is not skewed in their favor. Why add yet *another* filter that further winnows down your available options?

People like what they like. It only seems to be a problem when it is a woman. When I was in law school there was a guy who did not go to an Ivy that only wanted to date girls that went went to an Ivy. And he’s now married to one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's a class issue. I have a graduate degree from a fancy school and grew up in a wealthy area, so I know a lot of UMC folks pretty well. But, my parents did not go to college, worked blue collar jobs, and were not into the whole UMC social scene. As a result, I know lots of people who are not "well educated" but read plenty, have diverse interests, and can hold their own in an intellectual conversation. They just did not go to college and do not work professional jobs. I also know lots of UMC women who would never consider dating any of those people, because they are not "well educated." The women will say it's about "ability to hold a conversation," but either they are ignorant or they are not being honest; plenty of these folks can hold a conversation. Instead, it really seems that they want someone who will fit in with their family and friends and is not too different. This is a class issue.

A degree is like a form of insurance.

If you are blue collar and the economy turns, you lose a job, etc. it’s harder to find work. Even Starbucks baristas have college degrees.

If you have a college degree it helps and if you have a graduate or professional degree it’s even more insurance (unless your loan debt is outrageous ).

It’s a tribe. Are you comfortable in a crowd with guys friends that didn’t finish high school or go to college and likely their girlfriends/wives too? I dated a few guys in 20s who never went to college and the women and crowd they hung out with I did not have much in common.

My husband came from a blue collar neighborhood, grew up very poor but got $ to go to a top university, speaks 3 languages fluently is well-read, Renaissance man that travels extensively. We can from different worlds.

Not always.

Remember in the 80's, when shallow women wanted to marry lawyers? Still true, it depends what profession is "trendy", I suppose.

I know lawyers who have been unemployed for years, during their career. I have also known engineers who have been unemployed for years, during their career. And so on.

Builders? Tradespeople? Can always find a job, they are always needed, there is never a glut, IME. THAT is insurance.

Unemployment knows no bounds. A HYPSM degree seems like insurance, but it really is not, IME.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's a class issue. I have a graduate degree from a fancy school and grew up in a wealthy area, so I know a lot of UMC folks pretty well. But, my parents did not go to college, worked blue collar jobs, and were not into the whole UMC social scene. As a result, I know lots of people who are not "well educated" but read plenty, have diverse interests, and can hold their own in an intellectual conversation. They just did not go to college and do not work professional jobs. I also know lots of UMC women who would never consider dating any of those people, because they are not "well educated." The women will say it's about "ability to hold a conversation," but either they are ignorant or they are not being honest; plenty of these folks can hold a conversation. Instead, it really seems that they want someone who will fit in with their family and friends and is not too different. This is a class issue.

A degree is like a form of insurance.

If you are blue collar and the economy turns, you lose a job, etc. it’s harder to find work. Even Starbucks baristas have college degrees.

If you have a college degree it helps and if you have a graduate or professional degree it’s even more insurance (unless your loan debt is outrageous ).

It’s a tribe. Are you comfortable in a crowd with guys friends that didn’t finish high school or go to college and likely their girlfriends/wives too? I dated a few guys in 20s who never went to college and the women and crowd they hung out with I did not have much in common.

My husband came from a blue collar neighborhood, grew up very poor but got $ to go to a top university, speaks 3 languages fluently is well-read, Renaissance man that travels extensively. We can from different worlds.

What's your world?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's a class issue. I have a graduate degree from a fancy school and grew up in a wealthy area, so I know a lot of UMC folks pretty well. But, my parents did not go to college, worked blue collar jobs, and were not into the whole UMC social scene. As a result, I know lots of people who are not "well educated" but read plenty, have diverse interests, and can hold their own in an intellectual conversation. They just did not go to college and do not work professional jobs. I also know lots of UMC women who would never consider dating any of those people, because they are not "well educated." The women will say it's about "ability to hold a conversation," but either they are ignorant or they are not being honest; plenty of these folks can hold a conversation. Instead, it really seems that they want someone who will fit in with their family and friends and is not too different. This is a class issue.

A degree is like a form of insurance.

If you are blue collar and the economy turns, you lose a job, etc. it’s harder to find work. Even Starbucks baristas have college degrees.

If you have a college degree it helps and if you have a graduate or professional degree it’s even more insurance (unless your loan debt is outrageous ).

It’s a tribe. Are you comfortable in a crowd with guys friends that didn’t finish high school or go to college and likely their girlfriends/wives too? I dated a few guys in 20s who never went to college and the women and crowd they hung out with I did not have much in common.

My husband came from a blue collar neighborhood, grew up very poor but got $ to go to a top university, speaks 3 languages fluently is well-read, Renaissance man that travels extensively. We can from different worlds.

Not always.

Remember in the 80's, when shallow women wanted to marry lawyers? Still true, it depends what profession is "trendy", I suppose.

I know lawyers who have been unemployed for years, during their career. I have also known engineers who have been unemployed for years, during their career. And so on.

Builders? Tradespeople? Can always find a job, they are always needed, there is never a glut, IME. THAT is insurance.

Unemployment knows no bounds. A HYPSM degree seems like insurance, but it really is not, IME.

True dat

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a spin-off of another thread where a late 30s woman was asking how to meet men, and of course mentions the “well-educated” criterion multiple times.

I just don’t get this. And I should preface this by saying I’m a guy with an Ivy degree. But would you ladies not consider someone who owns his own construction business or a few Subway franchises and earns $150,000 per year? (Or we could make it 15 Subway franchises and an income of $600,000 if that is your requirement.) This is not about income – that part I understand.

But why the obsession with “well-educated” men? Do you not understand that for many people, going to college/graduate school is a terrible life decision? I mean, there was a recent article about NYU film grads coming out of the Master’s program with $30,000/year jobs and $250,000 in debt. Surely women in their late 30s recognize that the dating market is not skewed in their favor. Why add yet *another* filter that further winnows down your available options?

People like what they like. It only seems to be a problem when it is a woman. When I was in law school there was a guy who did not go to an Ivy that only wanted to date girls that went went to an Ivy. And he’s now married to one.

More often, it is women who are shallow - nothing to add to the relationship, but "must have" (in this case, "educated").

Those women are a dime a dozen, and always "have to have" something, never happy.

That kind of woman would be hard to live with - a materialistic dullard.

If both partners are equally educated, it is much easier on the relationship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's a class issue. I have a graduate degree from a fancy school and grew up in a wealthy area, so I know a lot of UMC folks pretty well. But, my parents did not go to college, worked blue collar jobs, and were not into the whole UMC social scene. As a result, I know lots of people who are not "well educated" but read plenty, have diverse interests, and can hold their own in an intellectual conversation. They just did not go to college and do not work professional jobs. I also know lots of UMC women who would never consider dating any of those people, because they are not "well educated." The women will say it's about "ability to hold a conversation," but either they are ignorant or they are not being honest; plenty of these folks can hold a conversation. Instead, it really seems that they want someone who will fit in with their family and friends and is not too different. This is a class issue.

A degree is like a form of insurance.

If you are blue collar and the economy turns, you lose a job, etc. it’s harder to find work. Even Starbucks baristas have college degrees.

If you have a college degree it helps and if you have a graduate or professional degree it’s even more insurance (unless your loan debt is outrageous ).

It’s a tribe. Are you comfortable in a crowd with guys friends that didn’t finish high school or go to college and likely their girlfriends/wives too? I dated a few guys in 20s who never went to college and the women and crowd they hung out with I did not have much in common.

My husband came from a blue collar neighborhood, grew up very poor but got $ to go to a top university, speaks 3 languages fluently is well-read, Renaissance man that travels extensively. We can from different worlds.

Practically, the bolded is how I think about it. Are there plenty of intelligent, hard-working, decent people without college degrees who earn a good living? Sure. But college degrees afford many more options than without them, typically. That's why we encourage our kids to go to college and why DH's aunt insisted he attend, even though neither of his parents did. A bachelors degree gives you options. Graduate degrees can, too, of course, but they often come with a debt burden that may or may not be worth it.