5yo hit and killed in Brookland last night

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it appropriate to tell your 5-year-old about something like this? Mine has been good about waiting for me at intersections but I wonder if one day he's going to get a crazy idea and decide he can cross by himself.

Not necessarily inappropriate imo, but maybe ineffective. My mom was a pediatric ER nurse and loved to try to scare me straight with horror stories of her patients. Just made me think she was morbid and dramatic.

I always try to point out to my kids the people not coming to a full stop before turning or how when we are crossing in a crosswalk the person making a left on green has a green light and might not be thinking of a person crossing so you need to watch for the turning cars and see if they see you. The kids all learn to look left right left before crossing a street but I don’t think they all learn to watch for turning cars. We also say that while you have the right of way in ways crosswalk, it’s more important to be alive than to be right so check for cars even if you have the right of way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

The child was in a crosswalk. There's no way for a driver to kill her unless they ran the stop sign. Even if the child got out ahead of her parents, an attentive driver who stopped at the sign would STILL have been able to stop.

That’s so obviously untrue. Have you really never once see a kid <5 yrs blast into the road (crosswalk) without stopping?? You know, barreling at a good clip down the ADA sidewalk ramp? Scooters are the most common method of this but I also see balance bikes and just plain running full bore.

Yes. Drivers need to to yield. Always. If you cannot reasonably see a thing to *yield to* though, it makes it pretty hard. Even at 5 mph

A 42” tall child fast approaching from your right if you’re in a tall van at dusk-darkness is almost impossible to see.

Peace to her family

I agree this is how accidents happen with biking/scooting on the sidewalk. But this does not exonerate cars that whip around corners without stopping. If the van had come to a full stop before turning, the girl would not be dead.

Why don't you read the accounts of the incident before spouting such stupid sh!t?

Because initial police reports of bike/ped accidents are notorious for being wrong and letting the driver off. And because I don’t believe that the vehicle could have accelerated that quickly if they came to a full stop; and if it did floor it through the intersection after stopping, that is equally reckless. And drivers need to look both ways before driving thru crosswalks.

Translation: Because I prefer to believe that the facts that are true are different than those reported, because they suit my preconceived notions. And because I don't have a good grasp of physics.

translation: you have no understanding of the nature of pedestrians/bikers being killed by drivers, which fit predictable patterns. the van should not have been going more than 10mph thru the crosswalk, and a fatality at that speed would be very very rare.

So you have decided, not having been there, about how this happened, not based on any evidence, but because because of "predictable patterns," rather than accept the facts as reported by people that actually were there? As I said, you prefer to believe alternative facts because they fit your preferred narrative. Basically, you are the same as an election denying MAGAite. Congratulations, I guess.

[Anonymous]

This is so sad. I can’t stop thinking about this little girl and her family, and the little boy who was hit in the spring and his family.

[Anonymous]

It’s very sad. Let’s face it though drivers here are incredibly aggressive and many pedestrians are incredibly unaware and oblivious. Neither follows the rules well. This is what happens. We’ll all feel rightly disgusted at this senseless tragedy but nothing will change. It’s been like this in the District forever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe social services should check the parents' cell phones to see if they were texting or talking or watching videos instead of watching their kids. Why isn't anyone putting any responsibility on the parents? Where were they? I can't tell you how many times I see young children riding or scooting and they appear to be alone because the parents are preoccupied with their cell phones walking way behind the children.

It is so unbelievably cruel of you to even speculate in a public forum about whether this was the parents' fault. They just lost their kid. Have a little decency.

And yet its true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To be clear, police reports state he did in fact come to a complete stop. I will say that if there is a child coming towards the intersection on a bike….seems prudent not to go even if technically you can.

The van followed all motor vehicle laws and if you ever been in D.C. you'd know cars park on the side on every street. She was probably whipping around the side of a parked car as the driver pressed the accelerator from a full stop and didn't see her.

No one's fault.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

The child was in a crosswalk. There's no way for a driver to kill her unless they ran the stop sign. Even if the child got out ahead of her parents, an attentive driver who stopped at the sign would STILL have been able to stop.

That’s so obviously untrue. Have you really never once see a kid <5 yrs blast into the road (crosswalk) without stopping?? You know, barreling at a good clip down the ADA sidewalk ramp? Scooters are the most common method of this but I also see balance bikes and just plain running full bore.

Yes. Drivers need to to yield. Always. If you cannot reasonably see a thing to *yield to* though, it makes it pretty hard. Even at 5 mph

A 42” tall child fast approaching from your right if you’re in a tall van at dusk-darkness is almost impossible to see.

Peace to her family

I agree this is how accidents happen with biking/scooting on the sidewalk. But this does not exonerate cars that whip around corners without stopping. If the van had come to a full stop before turning, the girl would not be dead.

Why don't you read the accounts of the incident before spouting such stupid sh!t?

Because initial police reports of bike/ped accidents are notorious for being wrong and letting the driver off. And because I don’t believe that the vehicle could have accelerated that quickly if they came to a full stop; and if it did floor it through the intersection after stopping, that is equally reckless. And drivers need to look both ways before driving thru crosswalks.

Sometimes everyone is doing their best and terrible things still happen. I highly doubt that you come to a complete 5 second stop and look both ways at Every Single Intersection. As drivers, we are conditioned to look for adult pedestrians moving at a predictable pace, which is why cyclists/power scooters using the sidewalk can be so dangerous. The same goes for a child moving quickly/unpredictably on a bike at dusk.

drivers need to look to see if anyone is entering the crosswalk before barrelling through. It’s not hard.

The driver was found not to be at fault. It’s possible to be driving safely and still not be able to prevent an accident if a small child flies into an intersection on a bike without slowing or stopping. It’s absolutely devastating to imagine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

The child was in a crosswalk. There's no way for a driver to kill her unless they ran the stop sign. Even if the child got out ahead of her parents, an attentive driver who stopped at the sign would STILL have been able to stop.

That’s so obviously untrue. Have you really never once see a kid <5 yrs blast into the road (crosswalk) without stopping?? You know, barreling at a good clip down the ADA sidewalk ramp? Scooters are the most common method of this but I also see balance bikes and just plain running full bore.

Yes. Drivers need to to yield. Always. If you cannot reasonably see a thing to *yield to* though, it makes it pretty hard. Even at 5 mph

A 42” tall child fast approaching from your right if you’re in a tall van at dusk-darkness is almost impossible to see.

Peace to her family

I agree this is how accidents happen with biking/scooting on the sidewalk. But this does not exonerate cars that whip around corners without stopping. If the van had come to a full stop before turning, the girl would not be dead.

Why don't you read the accounts of the incident before spouting such stupid sh!t?

Because initial police reports of bike/ped accidents are notorious for being wrong and letting the driver off. And because I don’t believe that the vehicle could have accelerated that quickly if they came to a full stop; and if it did floor it through the intersection after stopping, that is equally reckless. And drivers need to look both ways before driving thru crosswalks.

Translation: Because I prefer to believe that the facts that are true are different than those reported, because they suit my preconceived notions. And because I don't have a good grasp of physics.

translation: you have no understanding of the nature of pedestrians/bikers being killed by drivers, which fit predictable patterns. the van should not have been going more than 10mph thru the crosswalk, and a fatality at that speed would be very very rare.

So you have decided, not having been there, about how this happened, not based on any evidence, but because because of "predictable patterns," rather than accept the facts as reported by people that actually were there? As I said, you prefer to believe alternative facts because they fit your preferred narrative. Basically, you are the same as an election denying MAGAite. Congratulations, I guess.

My guess is as good as that police report, yes. And it’s very probable that the van must have been going too fast through the crosswalk. 10 mph would not have killed her. Pedestrian deaths are way up in the US due to reckless driving and poor design. Not sure why I should assume otherwise here.

[Anonymous]

What nonsense. Kids die in driveways all the time when their parents run over them, all much less than 10 mph.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I bike commute with my 6 year old on her own bike and this really shook me. We follow EVERY safety rule to the letter. She wears a reflective vest, has a bike flag that is on an adult height pole. She always bikes right behind me and is not allowed to lag more than a few feet in intersections. This particular scenario couldn't have happened to us (because she never enters an intersection before me), but another distracted driver could plow through an intersection and hit us both. Sigh, I really hate commuting by car, but I'm second guessing now. My heart is with the family. I can't imagine the horror they're experiencing now.

you know that you’re not supposed to ride off the sidewalk into the intersection, right?

I’m not sure what you’re saying. That bicyclists on sidewalks should dismount and walk through every block? Do you have a cite for that?

I definitely dismount when I’m riding on the sidewalk and crossing heavily trafficked intersections. For other intersections, I slow almost to a stop and roll through at walking speed until I’m sure it’s clear. Riding off the sidewalk is very dangerous because the cars aren’t expecting to see you. This is why sidewalk biking can be more dangerous than biking on the street. I do bike on the sidewalk with my kid, but with these precautions. On my own I never bike on the sidewalk unless I have to. The ONLY time I’ve almost gotten creamed was biking on the sidewalk and shooting into the crosswalk, not seeing the right-turning car. that said, if drivers stopped and looked where they were going, and kept their speed down, this would not be as dangerous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What nonsense. Kids die in driveways all the time when their parents run over them, all much less than 10 mph.

not nonsense.

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2016/05/31/3-graphs-that-explain-why-20-mph-should-be-the-limit-on-city-streets/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how the speed was enough to kill her if he had just stopped and was moving through the crosswalk. Just heartbreaking and terrifying - you cannot teach children that young - there is always something that can happen - we need infrastructure changes.

If she was not able to stop she may have been going pretty quickly and been thrown, not just knocked down. She could have hit her head or landed poorly on her neck. Or she could have been pulled under the wheel. So unthinkably tragic.

What kind of infrastructure changes would have prevented this horrific accident?

raised crosswalks and bump-outs/curb extensions.

https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/ped_bike/step/docs/techSheet_RaisedCW2018.pdf

Those are traffic calming measures. I 100% agree that we need more traffic calming infrastructure in Brookland. Maryland drivers and DC drivers alike tear down my street going 15+ mph over the speed limit regularly.

How would those changes have prevented this accident? Honest question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What nonsense. Kids die in driveways all the time when their parents run over them, all much less than 10 mph.

not nonsense.

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2016/05/31/3-graphs-that-explain-why-20-mph-should-be-the-limit-on-city-streets/

That data is for adults. Not 5 year olds. It isn’t relevant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What nonsense. Kids die in driveways all the time when their parents run over them, all much less than 10 mph.

not nonsense.

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2016/05/31/3-graphs-that-explain-why-20-mph-should-be-the-limit-on-city-streets/

This is interesting but has no bearing on what happens to a small child who speeds into the path of a van. The youngest person in that graph was
30.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

The child was in a crosswalk. There's no way for a driver to kill her unless they ran the stop sign. Even if the child got out ahead of her parents, an attentive driver who stopped at the sign would STILL have been able to stop.

That’s so obviously untrue. Have you really never once see a kid <5 yrs blast into the road (crosswalk) without stopping?? You know, barreling at a good clip down the ADA sidewalk ramp? Scooters are the most common method of this but I also see balance bikes and just plain running full bore.

Yes. Drivers need to to yield. Always. If you cannot reasonably see a thing to *yield to* though, it makes it pretty hard. Even at 5 mph

A 42” tall child fast approaching from your right if you’re in a tall van at dusk-darkness is almost impossible to see.

Peace to her family

I agree this is how accidents happen with biking/scooting on the sidewalk. But this does not exonerate cars that whip around corners without stopping. If the van had come to a full stop before turning, the girl would not be dead.

Why don't you read the accounts of the incident before spouting such stupid sh!t?

Because initial police reports of bike/ped accidents are notorious for being wrong and letting the driver off. And because I don’t believe that the vehicle could have accelerated that quickly if they came to a full stop; and if it did floor it through the intersection after stopping, that is equally reckless. And drivers need to look both ways before driving thru crosswalks.

Translation: Because I prefer to believe that the facts that are true are different than those reported, because they suit my preconceived notions. And because I don't have a good grasp of physics.

translation: you have no understanding of the nature of pedestrians/bikers being killed by drivers, which fit predictable patterns. the van should not have been going more than 10mph thru the crosswalk, and a fatality at that speed would be very very rare.

So you have decided, not having been there, about how this happened, not based on any evidence, but because because of "predictable patterns," rather than accept the facts as reported by people that actually were there? As I said, you prefer to believe alternative facts because they fit your preferred narrative. Basically, you are the same as an election denying MAGAite. Congratulations, I guess.

My guess is as good as that police report, yes. And it’s very probable that the van must have been going too fast through the crosswalk. 10 mph would not have killed her. Pedestrian deaths are way up in the US due to reckless driving and poor design. Not sure why I should assume otherwise here.

The speed limit is 10 mph?