5yo hit and killed in Brookland last night

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

Of course it is the driver's fault. Don't be an idiot.

It's a four-way crosswalk with no lights and 7PM at night. I'm guessing the driver didn't see the tiny 5-year-old and the parent wasn't close enough to wave the car off.

Not anyone's fault.

This thinking is so false. When moving through a four way crosswalk intersection you need to be INCREDIBLY careful. The onus is on YOU to check that the crosswalks are clear. Yes, this was an accident. But the fault lies with the driver if the victim was in the crosswalk. If the victim was jay-walking, it is the pedestrian's fault. This is the entire reason we HAVE crosswalks. To protect pedestrians.

That is not true.

A walker, even when using a crosswalk, must stop before entering the crosswalk to ensure cars can see them. You can't just enter a crosswalk without caution or stopping 1st.

If you are jogging and immediately go into a crosswalk without stopping 1st, you are in the wrong.
If you are walking and turn to enter a crosswalk without stopping 1st, you are in the wrong.

Drivers can not read your mind. Drivers can't stop when somebody darts into a crosswalk.

I have never heard of such a rule (NP). The rule I learned is that if a pedestrian is in a cross-walk (even one foot), a car is not permitted to “enter” the crosswalk (even in a location that would not hit the pedestrian). A rule that is broken all the time - and from the ridiculous apologists for the driver on this thread, a dangerous practice that plenty of PPs want to perpetuate… Seriously the 5 yr old in a crosswalk is to blame?? I bet dollar to donuts the driver was just distracted, rushed and not paying attention…

[Anonymous]

The driver - the person driving the multi-thousand pound machine that killed another human - is at fault. But the driver behaves they way they do because our infrastructure and policy and legal choices mean that it's way easier to be an unsafe driver than a safe pedestrian.

And shame on all the apologists in this thread, who clearly identify more with the driver than with the child who was killed (or her family).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

Of course it is the driver's fault. Don't be an idiot.

It's a four-way crosswalk with no lights and 7PM at night. I'm guessing the driver didn't see the tiny 5-year-old and the parent wasn't close enough to wave the car off.

Not anyone's fault.

This thinking is so false. When moving through a four way crosswalk intersection you need to be INCREDIBLY careful. The onus is on YOU to check that the crosswalks are clear. Yes, this was an accident. But the fault lies with the driver if the victim was in the crosswalk. If the victim was jay-walking, it is the pedestrian's fault. This is the entire reason we HAVE crosswalks. To protect pedestrians.

That is not true.

A walker, even when using a crosswalk, must stop before entering the crosswalk to ensure cars can see them. You can't just enter a crosswalk without caution or stopping 1st.

If you are jogging and immediately go into a crosswalk without stopping 1st, you are in the wrong.
If you are walking and turn to enter a crosswalk without stopping 1st, you are in the wrong.

Drivers can not read your mind. Drivers can't stop when somebody darts into a crosswalk.

I have never heard of such a rule (NP). The rule I learned is that if a pedestrian is in a cross-walk (even one foot), a car is not permitted to “enter” the crosswalk (even in a location that would not hit the pedestrian). A rule that is broken all the time - and from the ridiculous apologists for the driver on this thread, a dangerous practice that plenty of PPs want to perpetuate… Seriously the 5 yr old in a crosswalk is to blame?? I bet dollar to donuts the driver was just distracted, rushed and not paying attention…

Following your logic, if a car is approaching a crosswalk in the middle of the street, even if 1 inch from crosswalk, they must stop if enter the crosswalk? I can ignore crosswalk lights as well I gather. One step into the crosswalk and all traffic yields to me?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

Of course it is the driver's fault. Don't be an idiot.

It's a four-way crosswalk with no lights and 7PM at night. I'm guessing the driver didn't see the tiny 5-year-old and the parent wasn't close enough to wave the car off.

Not anyone's fault.

This thinking is so false. When moving through a four way crosswalk intersection you need to be INCREDIBLY careful. The onus is on YOU to check that the crosswalks are clear. Yes, this was an accident. But the fault lies with the driver if the victim was in the crosswalk. If the victim was jay-walking, it is the pedestrian's fault. This is the entire reason we HAVE crosswalks. To protect pedestrians.

That is not true.

A walker, even when using a crosswalk, must stop before entering the crosswalk to ensure cars can see them. You can't just enter a crosswalk without caution or stopping 1st.

If you are jogging and immediately go into a crosswalk without stopping 1st, you are in the wrong.
If you are walking and turn to enter a crosswalk without stopping 1st, you are in the wrong.

Drivers can not read your mind. Drivers can't stop when somebody darts into a crosswalk.

It is true. Drivers can not hit people in crosswalks. It is the drivers duty to ensure the crosswalk is clear before proceeding. While I agree, it's good practice for a pedestrain to look both ways, the law is on the pedestrain's side.



(a) The driver of a vehicle shall stop and remain stopped to allow a pedestrian to cross the roadway within any marked crosswalk, or unmarked crosswalk at an intersection, when the pedestrian is upon the lane, or within one lane approaching the lane, on which the vehicle is traveling or onto which it is turning.

(a-1) Whenever a vehicle is stopped at a marked crosswalk at an unsignalized intersection, a vehicle approaching the crosswalk in an adjacent lane or from behind the stopped vehicle shall stop and give the right-of-way to ensure the safety of pedestrians and bicyclists before passing the stopped vehicle.

https://code.dccouncil.us/dc/council/code/sections/50-2201.28.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

Of course it is the driver's fault. Don't be an idiot.

It's a four-way crosswalk with no lights and 7PM at night. I'm guessing the driver didn't see the tiny 5-year-old and the parent wasn't close enough to wave the car off.

Not anyone's fault.

This thinking is so false. When moving through a four way crosswalk intersection you need to be INCREDIBLY careful. The onus is on YOU to check that the crosswalks are clear. Yes, this was an accident. But the fault lies with the driver if the victim was in the crosswalk. If the victim was jay-walking, it is the pedestrian's fault. This is the entire reason we HAVE crosswalks. To protect pedestrians.

That is not true.

A walker, even when using a crosswalk, must stop before entering the crosswalk to ensure cars can see them. You can't just enter a crosswalk without caution or stopping 1st.

If you are jogging and immediately go into a crosswalk without stopping 1st, you are in the wrong.
If you are walking and turn to enter a crosswalk without stopping 1st, you are in the wrong.

Drivers can not read your mind. Drivers can't stop when somebody darts into a crosswalk.

I have never heard of such a rule (NP). The rule I learned is that if a pedestrian is in a cross-walk (even one foot), a car is not permitted to “enter” the crosswalk (even in a location that would not hit the pedestrian). A rule that is broken all the time - and from the ridiculous apologists for the driver on this thread, a dangerous practice that plenty of PPs want to perpetuate… Seriously the 5 yr old in a crosswalk is to blame?? I bet dollar to donuts the driver was just distracted, rushed and not paying attention…

No foot should ever be placed in a crosswalk until the pedestrian has stopped and ensured they are seen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

Of course it is the driver's fault. Don't be an idiot.

It's a four-way crosswalk with no lights and 7PM at night. I'm guessing the driver didn't see the tiny 5-year-old and the parent wasn't close enough to wave the car off.

Not anyone's fault.

This thinking is so false. When moving through a four way crosswalk intersection you need to be INCREDIBLY careful. The onus is on YOU to check that the crosswalks are clear. Yes, this was an accident. But the fault lies with the driver if the victim was in the crosswalk. If the victim was jay-walking, it is the pedestrian's fault. This is the entire reason we HAVE crosswalks. To protect pedestrians.

That is not true.

A walker, even when using a crosswalk, must stop before entering the crosswalk to ensure cars can see them. You can't just enter a crosswalk without caution or stopping 1st.

If you are jogging and immediately go into a crosswalk without stopping 1st, you are in the wrong.
If you are walking and turn to enter a crosswalk without stopping 1st, you are in the wrong.

Drivers can not read your mind. Drivers can't stop when somebody darts into a crosswalk.

It is true. Drivers can not hit people in crosswalks. It is the drivers duty to ensure the crosswalk is clear before proceeding. While I agree, it's good practice for a pedestrain to look both ways, the law is on the pedestrain's side.



(a) The driver of a vehicle shall stop and remain stopped to allow a pedestrian to cross the roadway within any marked crosswalk, or unmarked crosswalk at an intersection, when the pedestrian is upon the lane, or within one lane approaching the lane, on which the vehicle is traveling or onto which it is turning.

(a-1) Whenever a vehicle is stopped at a marked crosswalk at an unsignalized intersection, a vehicle approaching the crosswalk in an adjacent lane or from behind the stopped vehicle shall stop and give the right-of-way to ensure the safety of pedestrians and bicyclists before passing the stopped vehicle.

https://code.dccouncil.us/dc/council/code/sections/50-2201.28.html

All true but also true that pedestrians must stop and ensure cars see them before stepping foot in the crosswalk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have information about what actually happened?

What a horrible tragedy.

"The preliminary investigation revealed that at approximately 6:55pm, the operator of a Royal Cab Transit van was travelling eastbound on Irving Street, Northeast and was proceeding through a stop sign after coming to a complete stop. As the operator pulled off from the stop sign, a juvenile female, who was riding her bicycle was unable to stop her bicycle and entered the intersection into the path of the moving vehicle. The operator struck the victim then immediately came to a stop and remained on the scene."

I am heartbroken for the family of the little girl. I am heartbroken for the driver. Although there is plenty of reckless driving and wanton disrespect for pedestrians and cyclists in DC these days, there is no reason to place blame in a scenario like this. Unfortunately despite best intentions and precautions, sometimes accidents happen.

I will hug my kids a little tighter today. I will talk to them about respecting stop signs, cross walks, traffic signals, and understanding that they need to be close by an adult who is much more visible to a car. And I will also as a driver try to be more aware and less distracted and keep an extra eye out for pedestrians and cyclists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The driver - the person driving the multi-thousand pound machine that killed another human - is at fault. But the driver behaves they way they do because our infrastructure and policy and legal choices mean that it's way easier to be an unsafe driver than a safe pedestrian.

And shame on all the apologists in this thread, who clearly identify more with the driver than with the child who was killed (or her family).

You can empathize with the family AND be confident that your black-white simplistic interpretation of the law is incorrect. See also, certain medical malpractice cases (birth defect connected to delivery =/= medical team's fault 100% of the time)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have information about what actually happened?

What a horrible tragedy.

"The preliminary investigation revealed that at approximately 6:55pm, the operator of a Royal Cab Transit van was travelling eastbound on Irving Street, Northeast and was proceeding through a stop sign after coming to a complete stop. As the operator pulled off from the stop sign, a juvenile female, who was riding her bicycle was unable to stop her bicycle and entered the intersection into the path of the moving vehicle. The operator struck the victim then immediately came to a stop and remained on the scene."

I am heartbroken for the family of the little girl. I am heartbroken for the driver. Although there is plenty of reckless driving and wanton disrespect for pedestrians and cyclists in DC these days, there is no reason to place blame in a scenario like this. Unfortunately despite best intentions and precautions, sometimes accidents happen.

I will hug my kids a little tighter today. I will talk to them about respecting stop signs, cross walks, traffic signals, and understanding that they need to be close by an adult who is much more visible to a car. And I will also as a driver try to be more aware and less distracted and keep an extra eye out for pedestrians and cyclists.

Completely horrifying.

More details here, including the name of the child. https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/5-year-old-fatally-struck-by-van-in-northeast-dc/2800507/

I cannot even imagine the pain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

Of course it is the driver's fault. Don't be an idiot.

It's a four-way crosswalk with no lights and 7PM at night. I'm guessing the driver didn't see the tiny 5-year-old and the parent wasn't close enough to wave the car off.

Not anyone's fault.

This thinking is so false. When moving through a four way crosswalk intersection you need to be INCREDIBLY careful. The onus is on YOU to check that the crosswalks are clear. Yes, this was an accident. But the fault lies with the driver if the victim was in the crosswalk. If the victim was jay-walking, it is the pedestrian's fault. This is the entire reason we HAVE crosswalks. To protect pedestrians.

Well, guess what. The crosswalk was clear. The kid entered the intersection after the vehicle had come to a full drop and started moving again. So you can stop trying to blame the driver.

[Anonymous]

I don't understand how the speed was enough to kill her if he had just stopped and was moving through the crosswalk. Just heartbreaking and terrifying - you cannot teach children that young - there is always something that can happen - we need infrastructure changes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As the operator of a machine that can kill very easily, I'm responsible for making sure that doesn't happen. If it does, I'm at fault. Period. Full stop. I'm sure the driver is distraught and I hope s/he and the family of the kid both find peace, but that doesn't change the moral responsibility.

I mean that's not what the law says, but enjoy your perch up there on that moral high ground.

Its not possible for a driver to predict/react to every irratic thing a person might do. Not saying that's what happened here, but your black and white thinking is pretty silly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The driver - the person driving the multi-thousand pound machine that killed another human - is at fault. But the driver behaves they way they do because our infrastructure and policy and legal choices mean that it's way easier to be an unsafe driver than a safe pedestrian.

And shame on all the apologists in this thread, who clearly identify more with the driver than with the child who was killed (or her family).

“ The driver had stopped at a stop sign about 7 p.m., then began to drive into the intersection, police said.
The girl couldn’t stop her bike and went in front of the van while it was moving, police said.”

https://apple.news/A4ynSmrEHTsq8Vsl71pGpQA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

The child was in a crosswalk. There's no way for a driver to kill her unless they ran the stop sign. Even if the child got out ahead of her parents, an attentive driver who stopped at the sign would STILL have been able to stop.

That’s so obviously untrue. Have you really never once see a kid <5 yrs blast into the road (crosswalk) without stopping?? You know, barreling at a good clip down the ADA sidewalk ramp? Scooters are the most common method of this but I also see balance bikes and just plain running full bore.

Yes. Drivers need to to yield. Always. If you cannot reasonably see a thing to *yield to* though, it makes it pretty hard. Even at 5 mph

A 42” tall child fast approaching from your right if you’re in a tall van at dusk-darkness is almost impossible to see.

Peace to her family

I agree this is how accidents happen with biking/scooting on the sidewalk. But this does not exonerate cars that whip around corners without stopping. If the van had come to a full stop before turning, the girl would not be dead.

[Anonymous]

To be clear, police reports state he did in fact come to a complete stop. I will say that if there is a child coming towards the intersection on a bike….seems prudent not to go even if technically you can.