5yo hit and killed in Brookland last night

[Anonymous]

Maybe social services should check the parents' cell phones to see if they were texting or talking or watching videos instead of watching their kids. Why isn't anyone putting any responsibility on the parents? Where were they? I can't tell you how many times I see young children riding or scooting and they appear to be alone because the parents are preoccupied with their cell phones walking way behind the children.

[Anonymous]

Was she wearing a helmet?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Was she wearing a helmet?

She was.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

The child was in a crosswalk. There's no way for a driver to kill her unless they ran the stop sign. Even if the child got out ahead of her parents, an attentive driver who stopped at the sign would STILL have been able to stop.

That’s so obviously untrue. Have you really never once see a kid <5 yrs blast into the road (crosswalk) without stopping?? You know, barreling at a good clip down the ADA sidewalk ramp? Scooters are the most common method of this but I also see balance bikes and just plain running full bore.

Yes. Drivers need to to yield. Always. If you cannot reasonably see a thing to *yield to* though, it makes it pretty hard. Even at 5 mph

A 42” tall child fast approaching from your right if you’re in a tall van at dusk-darkness is almost impossible to see.

Peace to her family

I agree this is how accidents happen with biking/scooting on the sidewalk. But this does not exonerate cars that whip around corners without stopping. If the van had come to a full stop before turning, the girl would not be dead.

Why don't you read the accounts of the incident before spouting such stupid sh!t?

Because initial police reports of bike/ped accidents are notorious for being wrong and letting the driver off. And because I don’t believe that the vehicle could have accelerated that quickly if they came to a full stop; and if it did floor it through the intersection after stopping, that is equally reckless. And drivers need to look both ways before driving thru crosswalks.

Sometimes everyone is doing their best and terrible things still happen. I highly doubt that you come to a complete 5 second stop and look both ways at Every Single Intersection. As drivers, we are conditioned to look for adult pedestrians moving at a predictable pace, which is why cyclists/power scooters using the sidewalk can be so dangerous. The same goes for a child moving quickly/unpredictably on a bike at dusk.

drivers need to look to see if anyone is entering the crosswalk before barrelling through. It’s not hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

The child was in a crosswalk. There's no way for a driver to kill her unless they ran the stop sign. Even if the child got out ahead of her parents, an attentive driver who stopped at the sign would STILL have been able to stop.

That’s so obviously untrue. Have you really never once see a kid <5 yrs blast into the road (crosswalk) without stopping?? You know, barreling at a good clip down the ADA sidewalk ramp? Scooters are the most common method of this but I also see balance bikes and just plain running full bore.

Yes. Drivers need to to yield. Always. If you cannot reasonably see a thing to *yield to* though, it makes it pretty hard. Even at 5 mph

A 42” tall child fast approaching from your right if you’re in a tall van at dusk-darkness is almost impossible to see.

Peace to her family

I agree this is how accidents happen with biking/scooting on the sidewalk. But this does not exonerate cars that whip around corners without stopping. If the van had come to a full stop before turning, the girl would not be dead.

Why don't you read the accounts of the incident before spouting such stupid sh!t?

Because initial police reports of bike/ped accidents are notorious for being wrong and letting the driver off. And because I don’t believe that the vehicle could have accelerated that quickly if they came to a full stop; and if it did floor it through the intersection after stopping, that is equally reckless. And drivers need to look both ways before driving thru crosswalks.

Translation: Because I prefer to believe that the facts that are true are different than those reported, because they suit my preconceived notions. And because I don't have a good grasp of physics.

translation: you have no understanding of the nature of pedestrians/bikers being killed by drivers, which fit predictable patterns. the van should not have been going more than 10mph thru the crosswalk, and a fatality at that speed would be very very rare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how the speed was enough to kill her if he had just stopped and was moving through the crosswalk. Just heartbreaking and terrifying - you cannot teach children that young - there is always something that can happen - we need infrastructure changes.

If she was not able to stop she may have been going pretty quickly and been thrown, not just knocked down. She could have hit her head or landed poorly on her neck. Or she could have been pulled under the wheel. So unthinkably tragic.

What kind of infrastructure changes would have prevented this horrific accident?

raised crosswalks and bump-outs/curb extensions.

https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/ped_bike/step/docs/techSheet_RaisedCW2018.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe social services should check the parents' cell phones to see if they were texting or talking or watching videos instead of watching their kids. Why isn't anyone putting any responsibility on the parents? Where were they? I can't tell you how many times I see young children riding or scooting and they appear to be alone because the parents are preoccupied with their cell phones walking way behind the children.

It is so unbelievably cruel of you to even speculate in a public forum about whether this was the parents' fault. They just lost their kid. Have a little decency.

[Anonymous]

I bike commute with my 6 year old on her own bike and this really shook me. We follow EVERY safety rule to the letter. She wears a reflective vest, has a bike flag that is on an adult height pole. She always bikes right behind me and is not allowed to lag more than a few feet in intersections. This particular scenario couldn't have happened to us (because she never enters an intersection before me), but another distracted driver could plow through an intersection and hit us both. Sigh, I really hate commuting by car, but I'm second guessing now. My heart is with the family. I can't imagine the horror they're experiencing now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is it appropriate to tell your 5-year-old about something like this? Mine has been good about waiting for me at intersections but I wonder if one day he's going to get a crazy idea and decide he can cross by himself.

Not necessarily inappropriate imo, but maybe ineffective. My mom was a pediatric ER nurse and loved to try to scare me straight with horror stories of her patients. Just made me think she was morbid and dramatic.

[Anonymous]

Agree re perfect conditions rarely existing. But again, that is a choice and an infrastructure problem. And I agree with the poster up thread who mentioned raised crosswalks and curb extensions as a good start.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I bike commute with my 6 year old on her own bike and this really shook me. We follow EVERY safety rule to the letter. She wears a reflective vest, has a bike flag that is on an adult height pole. She always bikes right behind me and is not allowed to lag more than a few feet in intersections. This particular scenario couldn't have happened to us (because she never enters an intersection before me), but another distracted driver could plow through an intersection and hit us both. Sigh, I really hate commuting by car, but I'm second guessing now. My heart is with the family. I can't imagine the horror they're experiencing now.

you know that you’re not supposed to ride off the sidewalk into the intersection, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

The child was in a crosswalk. There's no way for a driver to kill her unless they ran the stop sign. Even if the child got out ahead of her parents, an attentive driver who stopped at the sign would STILL have been able to stop.

That’s so obviously untrue. Have you really never once see a kid <5 yrs blast into the road (crosswalk) without stopping?? You know, barreling at a good clip down the ADA sidewalk ramp? Scooters are the most common method of this but I also see balance bikes and just plain running full bore.

Yes. Drivers need to to yield. Always. If you cannot reasonably see a thing to *yield to* though, it makes it pretty hard. Even at 5 mph

A 42” tall child fast approaching from your right if you’re in a tall van at dusk-darkness is almost impossible to see.

Peace to her family

I agree this is how accidents happen with biking/scooting on the sidewalk. But this does not exonerate cars that whip around corners without stopping. If the van had come to a full stop before turning, the girl would not be dead.

Why don't you read the accounts of the incident before spouting such stupid sh!t?

Because initial police reports of bike/ped accidents are notorious for being wrong and letting the driver off. And because I don’t believe that the vehicle could have accelerated that quickly if they came to a full stop; and if it did floor it through the intersection after stopping, that is equally reckless. And drivers need to look both ways before driving thru crosswalks.

Long time road cyclist here. Many cyclist break the law so I’m not so sure I agree with your assertion (which is not backed up with any data source anyway). While cars are often reckless, so are cyclists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

The child was in a crosswalk. There's no way for a driver to kill her unless they ran the stop sign. Even if the child got out ahead of her parents, an attentive driver who stopped at the sign would STILL have been able to stop.

That’s so obviously untrue. Have you really never once see a kid <5 yrs blast into the road (crosswalk) without stopping?? You know, barreling at a good clip down the ADA sidewalk ramp? Scooters are the most common method of this but I also see balance bikes and just plain running full bore.

Yes. Drivers need to to yield. Always. If you cannot reasonably see a thing to *yield to* though, it makes it pretty hard. Even at 5 mph

A 42” tall child fast approaching from your right if you’re in a tall van at dusk-darkness is almost impossible to see.

Peace to her family

I agree this is how accidents happen with biking/scooting on the sidewalk. But this does not exonerate cars that whip around corners without stopping. If the van had come to a full stop before turning, the girl would not be dead.

Why don't you read the accounts of the incident before spouting such stupid sh!t?

Because initial police reports of bike/ped accidents are notorious for being wrong and letting the driver off. And because I don’t believe that the vehicle could have accelerated that quickly if they came to a full stop; and if it did floor it through the intersection after stopping, that is equally reckless. And drivers need to look both ways before driving thru crosswalks.

Long time road cyclist here. Many cyclist break the law so I’m not so sure I agree with your assertion (which is not backed up with any data source anyway). While cars are often reckless, so are cyclists.

cyclists that roll through stopsigns are often protecting their own safety (because they are avoiding drivers). they pose minimal threat to anyone. this is not a “both sides” thing, at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

The child was in a crosswalk. There's no way for a driver to kill her unless they ran the stop sign. Even if the child got out ahead of her parents, an attentive driver who stopped at the sign would STILL have been able to stop.

That’s so obviously untrue. Have you really never once see a kid <5 yrs blast into the road (crosswalk) without stopping?? You know, barreling at a good clip down the ADA sidewalk ramp? Scooters are the most common method of this but I also see balance bikes and just plain running full bore.

Yes. Drivers need to to yield. Always. If you cannot reasonably see a thing to *yield to* though, it makes it pretty hard. Even at 5 mph

A 42” tall child fast approaching from your right if you’re in a tall van at dusk-darkness is almost impossible to see.

Peace to her family

I agree this is how accidents happen with biking/scooting on the sidewalk. But this does not exonerate cars that whip around corners without stopping. If the van had come to a full stop before turning, the girl would not be dead.

Why don't you read the accounts of the incident before spouting such stupid sh!t?

Because initial police reports of bike/ped accidents are notorious for being wrong and letting the driver off. And because I don’t believe that the vehicle could have accelerated that quickly if they came to a full stop; and if it did floor it through the intersection after stopping, that is equally reckless. And drivers need to look both ways before driving thru crosswalks.

Long time road cyclist here. Many cyclist break the law so I’m not so sure I agree with your assertion (which is not backed up with any data source anyway). While cars are often reckless, so are cyclists.

oh please. how many cyclists have killed drivers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I bike commute with my 6 year old on her own bike and this really shook me. We follow EVERY safety rule to the letter. She wears a reflective vest, has a bike flag that is on an adult height pole. She always bikes right behind me and is not allowed to lag more than a few feet in intersections. This particular scenario couldn't have happened to us (because she never enters an intersection before me), but another distracted driver could plow through an intersection and hit us both. Sigh, I really hate commuting by car, but I'm second guessing now. My heart is with the family. I can't imagine the horror they're experiencing now.

you know that you’re not supposed to ride off the sidewalk into the intersection, right?

I’m not sure what you’re saying. That bicyclists on sidewalks should dismount and walk through every block? Do you have a cite for that?