5yo hit and killed in Brookland last night

[Anonymous]

Only in America are operators of two ton death mobiles not responsible for hitting and killing defenseless humans who use the same streets. America sucks, big time, and this is a huge reason why.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Only in America are operators of two ton death mobiles not responsible for hitting and killing defenseless humans who use the same streets. America sucks, big time, and this is a huge reason why.

Evidence for this bold statement?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As the operator of a machine that can kill very easily, I'm responsible for making sure that doesn't happen. If it does, I'm at fault. Period. Full stop. I'm sure the driver is distraught and I hope s/he and the family of the kid both find peace, but that doesn't change the moral responsibility.

100%. Car drivers need to understand this.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

The child was in a crosswalk. There's no way for a driver to kill her unless they ran the stop sign. Even if the child got out ahead of her parents, an attentive driver who stopped at the sign would STILL have been able to stop.

That’s so obviously untrue. Have you really never once see a kid <5 yrs blast into the road (crosswalk) without stopping?? You know, barreling at a good clip down the ADA sidewalk ramp? Scooters are the most common method of this but I also see balance bikes and just plain running full bore.

Yes. Drivers need to to yield. Always. If you cannot reasonably see a thing to *yield to* though, it makes it pretty hard. Even at 5 mph

A 42” tall child fast approaching from your right if you’re in a tall van at dusk-darkness is almost impossible to see.

Peace to her family

I agree this is how accidents happen with biking/scooting on the sidewalk. But this does not exonerate cars that whip around corners without stopping. If the van had come to a full stop before turning, the girl would not be dead.

Why don't you read the accounts of the incident before spouting such stupid sh!t?

Because initial police reports of bike/ped accidents are notorious for being wrong and letting the driver off. And because I don’t believe that the vehicle could have accelerated that quickly if they came to a full stop; and if it did floor it through the intersection after stopping, that is equally reckless. And drivers need to look both ways before driving thru crosswalks.

Sometimes everyone is doing their best and terrible things still happen. I highly doubt that you come to a complete 5 second stop and look both ways at Every Single Intersection. As drivers, we are conditioned to look for adult pedestrians moving at a predictable pace, which is why cyclists/power scooters using the sidewalk can be so dangerous. The same goes for a child moving quickly/unpredictably on a bike at dusk.

drivers need to look to see if anyone is entering the crosswalk before barrelling through. It’s not hard.

Once again, no one was “barreling through.” Read the police report. It’s not hard.

The police report is “preliminary” and the reports almost always exonerate drivers ex ante unless there’s video evidence against them.

The police report is more valid than your baseless, agenda-riddled speculation.

oh yes, it’s “agenda ridden speculation” to focus on the need for traffic safety improvements in the wake of a driver killing a 5 yr old in the street, in a area residents have been requesting traffic calming, and where drivers regularly blow through stop signs, in a time with a sharp increase in drivers killing pedestrians and bikers. actually your response is the one that seems absolutely knee-jerk and agenda-driven. it’s jawdropping that your thoughts turn to protecting your free parking and right to speed instead of traffic safety at a time like this.

No, you nitwit. It's entirely appropriate to advocate for traffic safety improvements. On the other hand, it's agenda-ridden speculation to write, as you (or others with whom you identify) have:

"There's no way for a driver to kill her unless they ran the stop sign."
"If the van had come to a full stop before turning, the girl would not be dead."
"I don’t believe that the vehicle could have accelerated that quickly if they came to a full stop; and if it did floor it through the intersection after stopping, that is equally reckless."

Also, if you believe that accepting the report of the police, who apparently interviewed eyewitnesses to the accident (including the child's father), is "absolutely knee-jerk and agenda-driven" you are in dire need of both a dictionary and some critical thinking skills.

Everything you listed there is a reasonable inference about what happened here. Sorry you have trouble accepting that we have a huge problem with reckless driving and unsafe design prioritizing cars in DC and all over the country, resulting in a massive uptick of deaths.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

The child was in a crosswalk. There's no way for a driver to kill her unless they ran the stop sign. Even if the child got out ahead of her parents, an attentive driver who stopped at the sign would STILL have been able to stop.

Not necessarily. Just a few days ago I stopped at a 4 way stop, stopped and had eyes on every single pedestrian, and was going slowly forward while looking around and a kid (probably middle schoolers? Old enough to know better) somehow hurtled himself across the crosswalk directly in front of my car. I don’t even remember if I managed to hit the brake or if he ran away, but I remember he had the deer in the headlights look and I am still shaken. I followed all laws and was being very careful and still almost killed a kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

The child was in a crosswalk. There's no way for a driver to kill her unless they ran the stop sign. Even if the child got out ahead of her parents, an attentive driver who stopped at the sign would STILL have been able to stop.

Not necessarily. Just a few days ago I stopped at a 4 way stop, stopped and had eyes on every single pedestrian, and was going slowly forward while looking around and a kid (probably middle schoolers? Old enough to know better) somehow hurtled himself across the crosswalk directly in front of my car. I don’t even remember if I managed to hit the brake or if he ran away, but I remember he had the deer in the headlights look and I am still shaken. I followed all laws and was being very careful and still almost killed a kid.

If you were actually driving slowly, then you almost certainly would not have killed him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As the operator of a machine that can kill very easily, I'm responsible for making sure that doesn't happen. If it does, I'm at fault. Period. Full stop. I'm sure the driver is distraught and I hope s/he and the family of the kid both find peace, but that doesn't change the moral responsibility.

100%. Car drivers need to understand this.

Easy for you to sit and say. You weren’t there.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The driver - the person driving the multi-thousand pound machine that killed another human - is at fault. But the driver behaves they way they do because our infrastructure and policy and legal choices mean that it's way easier to be an unsafe driver than a safe pedestrian.

And shame on all the apologists in this thread, who clearly identify more with the driver than with the child who was killed (or her family).

I disagree. We’re trying to keep future accidents from happening by telling pedestrians that just because you have the right of way, you have to be more vigilant so you don’t die. I see people texting walking across the street.

oh come on. it’s the drivers. nobody is safe with this:

https://mobile.twitter.com/lambda_calculus/status/1437913085486960645

If you think pedestrian accidents are only because of drivers, you’re living in a naive bubble. Too many distracted pedestrians. Drivers and pedestrians need to stay vigilant. Just because you get walk signal, doesn’t mean you stop looking at the traffic coming your way.

just about every analysis of pedestrian death increases cites SUVs, speeding, and poor street design.

More pedestrians would live if they didn’t cross the second they get signal, and start staring at phones. You have to make sure to keep looking so to be able to react incase someone blows through the light.

Which, again, is not so much a failure of pedestrians but of those driving the cars who take every yellow and fresh red as a sign to barrel through, and who take stop signs as yield signs and yield signs as nothing at all. Heck, I’ve been in intersections before and had to jump because some distracted SUV driver (and it always seems to be a distracted SUV driver) hasn’t seen the red light or me in the crosswalk.

I watch cars roll or blow through the stop sign next to my kid’s elementary school *every day*. they never stop unless there is someone literally in front of them in the crosswalk. Let’s not even get started about the cars and delivery vans that park in the no-parking zone at the corner and obstruct visibility.

Is that what this particular driver did?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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People are angry with the driver for things he did not do.

Of course we are. He did not drive his vehicle in a safe manner and that lead to the death of a 5 year old girl.

According to the police, you are wrong.

[Anonymous]

"DC Police say Allison Hart was unable to stop her bicycle and entered the intersection of 14th & Irving Streets in Northeast around 7 p.m. on Monday. She got into the path of a Royal Cab Transit van crossing the intersection after coming to a complete stop, per police."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
People are angry with the driver for things he did not do.

Of course we are. He did not drive his vehicle in a safe manner and that lead to the death of a 5 year old girl.

According to the police, you are wrong.

the police aren’t the final fact finders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
People are angry with the driver for things he did not do.

Of course we are. He did not drive his vehicle in a safe manner and that lead to the death of a 5 year old girl.

According to the police, you are wrong.

the police aren’t the final fact finders.

But you are, apparently.

[Anonymous]

Does anyone know if the driver was texting ?

Also, was the child wearing a helmet ?

Trying to raise issues we could actually highlight for change if they played a role ?

[Anonymous]

[twitter] https://mobile.twitter.com/PritaPiekara/status/1437845438686695424[/twitter]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know if the driver was texting ?

Also, was the child wearing a helmet ?

Trying to raise issues we could actually highlight for change if they played a role ?

Highlight drivers like the one in this video. https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/allison-hart-bicycle-road-safety/2021/09/18/2253d8a4-1820-11ec-a5e5-ceecb895922f_story.html

I’ve seen no suggestions that the driver who killed Allison was driving anything like this. But come on; this is the fault of drivers and a helmet isn’t going to help a pedestrian at this speed.