5yo hit and killed in Brookland last night

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how the speed was enough to kill her if he had just stopped and was moving through the crosswalk. Just heartbreaking and terrifying - you cannot teach children that young - there is always something that can happen - we need infrastructure changes.

If she was not able to stop she may have been going pretty quickly and been thrown, not just knocked down. She could have hit her head or landed poorly on her neck. Or she could have been pulled under the wheel. So unthinkably tragic.

What kind of infrastructure changes would have prevented this horrific accident?

raised crosswalks and bump-outs/curb extensions.

https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/ped_bike/step/docs/techSheet_RaisedCW2018.pdf

Those are traffic calming measures. I 100% agree that we need more traffic calming infrastructure in Brookland. Maryland drivers and DC drivers alike tear down my street going 15+ mph over the speed limit regularly.

How would those changes have prevented this accident? Honest question.

This is a case of a young child not being old enough and aware enough to understand the dangers around them. The parents/guardian not close enough to take action. And the unfortunate consequences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how the speed was enough to kill her if he had just stopped and was moving through the crosswalk. Just heartbreaking and terrifying - you cannot teach children that young - there is always something that can happen - we need infrastructure changes.

If she was not able to stop she may have been going pretty quickly and been thrown, not just knocked down. She could have hit her head or landed poorly on her neck. Or she could have been pulled under the wheel. So unthinkably tragic.

What kind of infrastructure changes would have prevented this horrific accident?

raised crosswalks and bump-outs/curb extensions.

https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/ped_bike/step/docs/techSheet_RaisedCW2018.pdf

Those are traffic calming measures. I 100% agree that we need more traffic calming infrastructure in Brookland. Maryland drivers and DC drivers alike tear down my street going 15+ mph over the speed limit regularly.

How would those changes have prevented this accident? Honest question.

because this driver was almost certainly going too fast. bump-outs and raised crosswalks can also increase visibility of pedestrians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

The child was in a crosswalk. There's no way for a driver to kill her unless they ran the stop sign. Even if the child got out ahead of her parents, an attentive driver who stopped at the sign would STILL have been able to stop.

That’s so obviously untrue. Have you really never once see a kid <5 yrs blast into the road (crosswalk) without stopping?? You know, barreling at a good clip down the ADA sidewalk ramp? Scooters are the most common method of this but I also see balance bikes and just plain running full bore.

Yes. Drivers need to to yield. Always. If you cannot reasonably see a thing to *yield to* though, it makes it pretty hard. Even at 5 mph

A 42” tall child fast approaching from your right if you’re in a tall van at dusk-darkness is almost impossible to see.

Peace to her family

I agree this is how accidents happen with biking/scooting on the sidewalk. But this does not exonerate cars that whip around corners without stopping. If the van had come to a full stop before turning, the girl would not be dead.

Why don't you read the accounts of the incident before spouting such stupid sh!t?

Because initial police reports of bike/ped accidents are notorious for being wrong and letting the driver off. And because I don’t believe that the vehicle could have accelerated that quickly if they came to a full stop; and if it did floor it through the intersection after stopping, that is equally reckless. And drivers need to look both ways before driving thru crosswalks.

Translation: Because I prefer to believe that the facts that are true are different than those reported, because they suit my preconceived notions. And because I don't have a good grasp of physics.

translation: you have no understanding of the nature of pedestrians/bikers being killed by drivers, which fit predictable patterns. the van should not have been going more than 10mph thru the crosswalk, and a fatality at that speed would be very very rare.

So you have decided, not having been there, about how this happened, not based on any evidence, but because because of "predictable patterns," rather than accept the facts as reported by people that actually were there? As I said, you prefer to believe alternative facts because they fit your preferred narrative. Basically, you are the same as an election denying MAGAite. Congratulations, I guess.

My guess is as good as that police report, yes. And it’s very probable that the van must have been going too fast through the crosswalk. 10 mph would not have killed her. Pedestrian deaths are way up in the US due to reckless driving and poor design. Not sure why I should assume otherwise here.

The speed limit is 10 mph?

you aren’t authorized to drive the speed limit at all times. drivers need to cross intersections very slowly in residential areas - especially when making turns. no, 10mph isn’t guaranteed to save all lives but would go a long way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how the speed was enough to kill her if he had just stopped and was moving through the crosswalk. Just heartbreaking and terrifying - you cannot teach children that young - there is always something that can happen - we need infrastructure changes.

If she was not able to stop she may have been going pretty quickly and been thrown, not just knocked down. She could have hit her head or landed poorly on her neck. Or she could have been pulled under the wheel. So unthinkably tragic.

What kind of infrastructure changes would have prevented this horrific accident?

raised crosswalks and bump-outs/curb extensions.

https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/ped_bike/step/docs/techSheet_RaisedCW2018.pdf

Those are traffic calming measures. I 100% agree that we need more traffic calming infrastructure in Brookland. Maryland drivers and DC drivers alike tear down my street going 15+ mph over the speed limit regularly.

How would those changes have prevented this accident? Honest question.

This is a case of a young child not being old enough and aware enough to understand the dangers around them. The parents/guardian not close enough to take action. And the unfortunate consequences.

interesting you want to blame the child and parents, and not blame the driver.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What nonsense. Kids die in driveways all the time when their parents run over them, all much less than 10 mph.

not nonsense.

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2016/05/31/3-graphs-that-explain-why-20-mph-should-be-the-limit-on-city-streets/

That data is for adults. Not 5 year olds. It isn’t relevant.

here you go, have fun. speed and severity of injury are related for all ages.

https://nacto.org/docs/usdg/relationship_between_speed_risk_fatal_injury_pedestrians_and_car_occupants_richards.pdf

this is why there is a growing movement for 20mph speed limit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how the speed was enough to kill her if he had just stopped and was moving through the crosswalk. Just heartbreaking and terrifying - you cannot teach children that young - there is always something that can happen - we need infrastructure changes.

If she was not able to stop she may have been going pretty quickly and been thrown, not just knocked down. She could have hit her head or landed poorly on her neck. Or she could have been pulled under the wheel. So unthinkably tragic.

What kind of infrastructure changes would have prevented this horrific accident?

raised crosswalks and bump-outs/curb extensions.

https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/ped_bike/step/docs/techSheet_RaisedCW2018.pdf

Those are traffic calming measures. I 100% agree that we need more traffic calming infrastructure in Brookland. Maryland drivers and DC drivers alike tear down my street going 15+ mph over the speed limit regularly.

How would those changes have prevented this accident? Honest question.

because this driver was almost certainly going too fast. bump-outs and raised crosswalks can also increase visibility of pedestrians.

I am ALL in favor of increased pedestrian safety measures, but there is no traffic calming in the world that can protect all unattended small children who bike into crosswalks at dusk without stopping. They either get lucky or they don't. God bless everyone involved in this horrific tragedy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how the speed was enough to kill her if he had just stopped and was moving through the crosswalk. Just heartbreaking and terrifying - you cannot teach children that young - there is always something that can happen - we need infrastructure changes.

If she was not able to stop she may have been going pretty quickly and been thrown, not just knocked down. She could have hit her head or landed poorly on her neck. Or she could have been pulled under the wheel. So unthinkably tragic.

What kind of infrastructure changes would have prevented this horrific accident?

raised crosswalks and bump-outs/curb extensions.

https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/ped_bike/step/docs/techSheet_RaisedCW2018.pdf

Those are traffic calming measures. I 100% agree that we need more traffic calming infrastructure in Brookland. Maryland drivers and DC drivers alike tear down my street going 15+ mph over the speed limit regularly.

How would those changes have prevented this accident? Honest question.

because this driver was almost certainly going too fast. bump-outs and raised crosswalks can also increase visibility of pedestrians.

I am ALL in favor of increased pedestrian safety measures, but there is no traffic calming in the world that can protect all unattended small children who bike into crosswalks at dusk without stopping. They either get lucky or they don't. God bless everyone involved in this horrific tragedy.

YES there is. Speed limits and road design can slow down drivers to reduce the severity of accidents. And we’ll see if this was an accident or not - I have doubts that the van stopped or the driver was exercising proper caution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how the speed was enough to kill her if he had just stopped and was moving through the crosswalk. Just heartbreaking and terrifying - you cannot teach children that young - there is always something that can happen - we need infrastructure changes.

If she was not able to stop she may have been going pretty quickly and been thrown, not just knocked down. She could have hit her head or landed poorly on her neck. Or she could have been pulled under the wheel. So unthinkably tragic.

What kind of infrastructure changes would have prevented this horrific accident?

raised crosswalks and bump-outs/curb extensions.

https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/ped_bike/step/docs/techSheet_RaisedCW2018.pdf

Those are traffic calming measures. I 100% agree that we need more traffic calming infrastructure in Brookland. Maryland drivers and DC drivers alike tear down my street going 15+ mph over the speed limit regularly.

How would those changes have prevented this accident? Honest question.

This is a case of a young child not being old enough and aware enough to understand the dangers around them. The parents/guardian not close enough to take action. And the unfortunate consequences.

interesting you want to blame the child and parents, and not blame the driver.

Not the PP, but why does anyone have to be to blame? I ran over a puppy one time that raced out onto a 2 lane road where I was going well under the speed limit of 45. I still feel absolutely terrible about it, but he escaped from his owner and ran out into traffic. The lady and I cried together about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

The child was in a crosswalk. There's no way for a driver to kill her unless they ran the stop sign. Even if the child got out ahead of her parents, an attentive driver who stopped at the sign would STILL have been able to stop.

That’s so obviously untrue. Have you really never once see a kid <5 yrs blast into the road (crosswalk) without stopping?? You know, barreling at a good clip down the ADA sidewalk ramp? Scooters are the most common method of this but I also see balance bikes and just plain running full bore.

Yes. Drivers need to to yield. Always. If you cannot reasonably see a thing to *yield to* though, it makes it pretty hard. Even at 5 mph

A 42” tall child fast approaching from your right if you’re in a tall van at dusk-darkness is almost impossible to see.

Peace to her family

I agree this is how accidents happen with biking/scooting on the sidewalk. But this does not exonerate cars that whip around corners without stopping. If the van had come to a full stop before turning, the girl would not be dead.

Why don't you read the accounts of the incident before spouting such stupid sh!t?

Because initial police reports of bike/ped accidents are notorious for being wrong and letting the driver off. And because I don’t believe that the vehicle could have accelerated that quickly if they came to a full stop; and if it did floor it through the intersection after stopping, that is equally reckless. And drivers need to look both ways before driving thru crosswalks.

Translation: Because I prefer to believe that the facts that are true are different than those reported, because they suit my preconceived notions. And because I don't have a good grasp of physics.

translation: you have no understanding of the nature of pedestrians/bikers being killed by drivers, which fit predictable patterns. the van should not have been going more than 10mph thru the crosswalk, and a fatality at that speed would be very very rare.

So you have decided, not having been there, about how this happened, not based on any evidence, but because because of "predictable patterns," rather than accept the facts as reported by people that actually were there? As I said, you prefer to believe alternative facts because they fit your preferred narrative. Basically, you are the same as an election denying MAGAite. Congratulations, I guess.

My guess is as good as that police report, yes. And it’s very probable that the van must have been going too fast through the crosswalk. 10 mph would not have killed her. Pedestrian deaths are way up in the US due to reckless driving and poor design. Not sure why I should assume otherwise here.

The speed limit is 10 mph?

you aren’t authorized to drive the speed limit at all times. drivers need to cross intersections very slowly in residential areas - especially when making turns. no, 10mph isn’t guaranteed to save all lives but would go a long way.

You want cars to slow down yo 20 mph at every intersection even if they have a green light. That’s insane.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

The child was in a crosswalk. There's no way for a driver to kill her unless they ran the stop sign. Even if the child got out ahead of her parents, an attentive driver who stopped at the sign would STILL have been able to stop.

That’s so obviously untrue. Have you really never once see a kid <5 yrs blast into the road (crosswalk) without stopping?? You know, barreling at a good clip down the ADA sidewalk ramp? Scooters are the most common method of this but I also see balance bikes and just plain running full bore.

Yes. Drivers need to to yield. Always. If you cannot reasonably see a thing to *yield to* though, it makes it pretty hard. Even at 5 mph

A 42” tall child fast approaching from your right if you’re in a tall van at dusk-darkness is almost impossible to see.

Peace to her family

I agree this is how accidents happen with biking/scooting on the sidewalk. But this does not exonerate cars that whip around corners without stopping. If the van had come to a full stop before turning, the girl would not be dead.

Why don't you read the accounts of the incident before spouting such stupid sh!t?

Because initial police reports of bike/ped accidents are notorious for being wrong and letting the driver off. And because I don’t believe that the vehicle could have accelerated that quickly if they came to a full stop; and if it did floor it through the intersection after stopping, that is equally reckless. And drivers need to look both ways before driving thru crosswalks.

Translation: Because I prefer to believe that the facts that are true are different than those reported, because they suit my preconceived notions. And because I don't have a good grasp of physics.

translation: you have no understanding of the nature of pedestrians/bikers being killed by drivers, which fit predictable patterns. the van should not have been going more than 10mph thru the crosswalk, and a fatality at that speed would be very very rare.

So you have decided, not having been there, about how this happened, not based on any evidence, but because because of "predictable patterns," rather than accept the facts as reported by people that actually were there? As I said, you prefer to believe alternative facts because they fit your preferred narrative. Basically, you are the same as an election denying MAGAite. Congratulations, I guess.

My guess is as good as that police report, yes. And it’s very probable that the van must have been going too fast through the crosswalk. 10 mph would not have killed her. Pedestrian deaths are way up in the US due to reckless driving and poor design. Not sure why I should assume otherwise here.

Agree, 2+. If you come to a full stop, and then you hit someone *in a crosswalk* which is what? - 5-8 ft away - I don’t know how you even get to 10 mph unless you are flooring it. Seems like either a freak accident or a white wash report. If the driver’s not to blame it’s just a “tragedy” if s/he is, it’s someone’s responsibility (and the City’s potential liability). Pretty clear where the bias will lie.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

The child was in a crosswalk. There's no way for a driver to kill her unless they ran the stop sign. Even if the child got out ahead of her parents, an attentive driver who stopped at the sign would STILL have been able to stop.

That’s so obviously untrue. Have you really never once see a kid <5 yrs blast into the road (crosswalk) without stopping?? You know, barreling at a good clip down the ADA sidewalk ramp? Scooters are the most common method of this but I also see balance bikes and just plain running full bore.

Yes. Drivers need to to yield. Always. If you cannot reasonably see a thing to *yield to* though, it makes it pretty hard. Even at 5 mph

A 42” tall child fast approaching from your right if you’re in a tall van at dusk-darkness is almost impossible to see.

Peace to her family

I agree this is how accidents happen with biking/scooting on the sidewalk. But this does not exonerate cars that whip around corners without stopping. If the van had come to a full stop before turning, the girl would not be dead.

Why don't you read the accounts of the incident before spouting such stupid sh!t?

Because initial police reports of bike/ped accidents are notorious for being wrong and letting the driver off. And because I don’t believe that the vehicle could have accelerated that quickly if they came to a full stop; and if it did floor it through the intersection after stopping, that is equally reckless. And drivers need to look both ways before driving thru crosswalks.

Translation: Because I prefer to believe that the facts that are true are different than those reported, because they suit my preconceived notions. And because I don't have a good grasp of physics.

translation: you have no understanding of the nature of pedestrians/bikers being killed by drivers, which fit predictable patterns. the van should not have been going more than 10mph thru the crosswalk, and a fatality at that speed would be very very rare.

So you have decided, not having been there, about how this happened, not based on any evidence, but because because of "predictable patterns," rather than accept the facts as reported by people that actually were there? As I said, you prefer to believe alternative facts because they fit your preferred narrative. Basically, you are the same as an election denying MAGAite. Congratulations, I guess.

My guess is as good as that police report, yes. And it’s very probable that the van must have been going too fast through the crosswalk. 10 mph would not have killed her. Pedestrian deaths are way up in the US due to reckless driving and poor design. Not sure why I should assume otherwise here.

The speed limit is 10 mph?

you aren’t authorized to drive the speed limit at all times. drivers need to cross intersections very slowly in residential areas - especially when making turns. no, 10mph isn’t guaranteed to save all lives but would go a long way.

You want cars to slow down yo 20 mph at every intersection even if they have a green light. That’s insane.

No, I want them to go slower than 20 mph if they are crossing a crosswalk where peds have the right of way. 20 mph is the speed limit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

The child was in a crosswalk. There's no way for a driver to kill her unless they ran the stop sign. Even if the child got out ahead of her parents, an attentive driver who stopped at the sign would STILL have been able to stop.

That’s so obviously untrue. Have you really never once see a kid <5 yrs blast into the road (crosswalk) without stopping?? You know, barreling at a good clip down the ADA sidewalk ramp? Scooters are the most common method of this but I also see balance bikes and just plain running full bore.

Yes. Drivers need to to yield. Always. If you cannot reasonably see a thing to *yield to* though, it makes it pretty hard. Even at 5 mph

A 42” tall child fast approaching from your right if you’re in a tall van at dusk-darkness is almost impossible to see.

Peace to her family

I agree this is how accidents happen with biking/scooting on the sidewalk. But this does not exonerate cars that whip around corners without stopping. If the van had come to a full stop before turning, the girl would not be dead.

Why don't you read the accounts of the incident before spouting such stupid sh!t?

Because initial police reports of bike/ped accidents are notorious for being wrong and letting the driver off. And because I don’t believe that the vehicle could have accelerated that quickly if they came to a full stop; and if it did floor it through the intersection after stopping, that is equally reckless. And drivers need to look both ways before driving thru crosswalks.

Translation: Because I prefer to believe that the facts that are true are different than those reported, because they suit my preconceived notions. And because I don't have a good grasp of physics.

translation: you have no understanding of the nature of pedestrians/bikers being killed by drivers, which fit predictable patterns. the van should not have been going more than 10mph thru the crosswalk, and a fatality at that speed would be very very rare.

So you have decided, not having been there, about how this happened, not based on any evidence, but because because of "predictable patterns," rather than accept the facts as reported by people that actually were there? As I said, you prefer to believe alternative facts because they fit your preferred narrative. Basically, you are the same as an election denying MAGAite. Congratulations, I guess.

My guess is as good as that police report, yes. And it’s very probable that the van must have been going too fast through the crosswalk. 10 mph would not have killed her. Pedestrian deaths are way up in the US due to reckless driving and poor design. Not sure why I should assume otherwise here.

Agree, 2+. If you come to a full stop, and then you hit someone *in a crosswalk* which is what? - 5-8 ft away - I don’t know how you even get to 10 mph unless you are flooring it. Seems like either a freak accident or a white wash report. If the driver’s not to blame it’s just a “tragedy” if s/he is, it’s someone’s responsibility (and the City’s potential liability). Pretty clear where the bias will lie.

yep. I think we all know what happened - van took the corner at 20-30 mph and was not looking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

The child was in a crosswalk. There's no way for a driver to kill her unless they ran the stop sign. Even if the child got out ahead of her parents, an attentive driver who stopped at the sign would STILL have been able to stop.

That’s so obviously untrue. Have you really never once see a kid <5 yrs blast into the road (crosswalk) without stopping?? You know, barreling at a good clip down the ADA sidewalk ramp? Scooters are the most common method of this but I also see balance bikes and just plain running full bore.

Yes. Drivers need to to yield. Always. If you cannot reasonably see a thing to *yield to* though, it makes it pretty hard. Even at 5 mph

A 42” tall child fast approaching from your right if you’re in a tall van at dusk-darkness is almost impossible to see.

Peace to her family

I agree this is how accidents happen with biking/scooting on the sidewalk. But this does not exonerate cars that whip around corners without stopping. If the van had come to a full stop before turning, the girl would not be dead.

Why don't you read the accounts of the incident before spouting such stupid sh!t?

Because initial police reports of bike/ped accidents are notorious for being wrong and letting the driver off. And because I don’t believe that the vehicle could have accelerated that quickly if they came to a full stop; and if it did floor it through the intersection after stopping, that is equally reckless. And drivers need to look both ways before driving thru crosswalks.

Translation: Because I prefer to believe that the facts that are true are different than those reported, because they suit my preconceived notions. And because I don't have a good grasp of physics.

translation: you have no understanding of the nature of pedestrians/bikers being killed by drivers, which fit predictable patterns. the van should not have been going more than 10mph thru the crosswalk, and a fatality at that speed would be very very rare.

So you have decided, not having been there, about how this happened, not based on any evidence, but because because of "predictable patterns," rather than accept the facts as reported by people that actually were there? As I said, you prefer to believe alternative facts because they fit your preferred narrative. Basically, you are the same as an election denying MAGAite. Congratulations, I guess.

My guess is as good as that police report, yes. And it’s very probable that the van must have been going too fast through the crosswalk. 10 mph would not have killed her. Pedestrian deaths are way up in the US due to reckless driving and poor design. Not sure why I should assume otherwise here.

Agree, 2+. If you come to a full stop, and then you hit someone *in a crosswalk* which is what? - 5-8 ft away - I don’t know how you even get to 10 mph unless you are flooring it. Seems like either a freak accident or a white wash report. If the driver’s not to blame it’s just a “tragedy” if s/he is, it’s someone’s responsibility (and the City’s potential liability). Pretty clear where the bias will lie.

But what is the bicycle hit the car?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how the speed was enough to kill her if he had just stopped and was moving through the crosswalk. Just heartbreaking and terrifying - you cannot teach children that young - there is always something that can happen - we need infrastructure changes.

If she was not able to stop she may have been going pretty quickly and been thrown, not just knocked down. She could have hit her head or landed poorly on her neck. Or she could have been pulled under the wheel. So unthinkably tragic.

What kind of infrastructure changes would have prevented this horrific accident?

raised crosswalks and bump-outs/curb extensions.

https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/ped_bike/step/docs/techSheet_RaisedCW2018.pdf

Those are traffic calming measures. I 100% agree that we need more traffic calming infrastructure in Brookland. Maryland drivers and DC drivers alike tear down my street going 15+ mph over the speed limit regularly.

How would those changes have prevented this accident? Honest question.

This is a case of a young child not being old enough and aware enough to understand the dangers around them. The parents/guardian not close enough to take action. And the unfortunate consequences.

interesting you want to blame the child and parents, and not blame the driver.

Not the PP, but why does anyone have to be to blame? I ran over a puppy one time that raced out onto a 2 lane road where I was going well under the speed limit of 45. I still feel absolutely terrible about it, but he escaped from his owner and ran out into traffic. The lady and I cried together about it.

because drivers and poor design actually are to blame. not sure why your reflex response to a child pedestrian/bike fatality would be “nobody is to blame!” when drivers are causing more and more fatalities in DC.

https://wtop.com/local/2021/03/dc-2nd-in-pedestrian-deaths-per-100000-for-first-half-of-2020/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

The child was in a crosswalk. There's no way for a driver to kill her unless they ran the stop sign. Even if the child got out ahead of her parents, an attentive driver who stopped at the sign would STILL have been able to stop.

That’s so obviously untrue. Have you really never once see a kid <5 yrs blast into the road (crosswalk) without stopping?? You know, barreling at a good clip down the ADA sidewalk ramp? Scooters are the most common method of this but I also see balance bikes and just plain running full bore.

Yes. Drivers need to to yield. Always. If you cannot reasonably see a thing to *yield to* though, it makes it pretty hard. Even at 5 mph

A 42” tall child fast approaching from your right if you’re in a tall van at dusk-darkness is almost impossible to see.

Peace to her family

I agree this is how accidents happen with biking/scooting on the sidewalk. But this does not exonerate cars that whip around corners without stopping. If the van had come to a full stop before turning, the girl would not be dead.

Why don't you read the accounts of the incident before spouting such stupid sh!t?

Because initial police reports of bike/ped accidents are notorious for being wrong and letting the driver off. And because I don’t believe that the vehicle could have accelerated that quickly if they came to a full stop; and if it did floor it through the intersection after stopping, that is equally reckless. And drivers need to look both ways before driving thru crosswalks.

Translation: Because I prefer to believe that the facts that are true are different than those reported, because they suit my preconceived notions. And because I don't have a good grasp of physics.

translation: you have no understanding of the nature of pedestrians/bikers being killed by drivers, which fit predictable patterns. the van should not have been going more than 10mph thru the crosswalk, and a fatality at that speed would be very very rare.

So you have decided, not having been there, about how this happened, not based on any evidence, but because because of "predictable patterns," rather than accept the facts as reported by people that actually were there? As I said, you prefer to believe alternative facts because they fit your preferred narrative. Basically, you are the same as an election denying MAGAite. Congratulations, I guess.

My guess is as good as that police report, yes. And it’s very probable that the van must have been going too fast through the crosswalk. 10 mph would not have killed her. Pedestrian deaths are way up in the US due to reckless driving and poor design. Not sure why I should assume otherwise here.

Agree, 2+. If you come to a full stop, and then you hit someone *in a crosswalk* which is what? - 5-8 ft away - I don’t know how you even get to 10 mph unless you are flooring it. Seems like either a freak accident or a white wash report. If the driver’s not to blame it’s just a “tragedy” if s/he is, it’s someone’s responsibility (and the City’s potential liability). Pretty clear where the bias will lie.

You are misunderstanding. Nothing said the driver was going 10 MPH. The PP (mistakenly) believes that a small child will always survive being hit by car, even at speeds as low as 10 MPH.