Aren't families supposed to be your ride or die?

[Anonymous]

This prevalence of casually eliminating your close blood relatives from your life, to me, is pretty disturbing. Again to be clear, I do not mean situations where people have had the unfortunate occurrence of being born into a family with drug addicts or alcoholics or with any form of abuse. I mean normal families made up of normal, every day, well intentioned but inevitably flawed individuals.

These are the mothers who love their children but also pressured them to excel academically, almost to a fault.

These are the fathers who worked hard to provide for their families and as such more time in board rooms and business travel than cheering at every soccer game.

These are the parents who adore their children and are good people but happen to be Republican or support Trump.

These are the Muslim parents who gave up everything to move their family to the U.S for a better life but did not have the cultural knowledge to help their children adjust to a new culture.

These are the dads who work so much that when they come home they might be exhausted and be a little short with their children.

This is the single mom who maybe perhaps treated her kids more like friends than children.

etc etc

So many of these children grow up and viciously cut off their mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers claiming "abuse!" and "toxicity."

Of course people are allowed their feelings and opinions. But aren't people who love you supposed to be kind and forgiving of your flaws? Everyone messes up. Everyone has their not-their-best moments. The beauty of family and love is that you can know someone at their worst and still accept them and love them.

Nowadays you are tiptoeing around your loved ones out of the fear that you may accidentally hurt their feelings and never be invited to spend Christmas with them again!

What a crazy thought!

[Anonymous]

"Of course people are allowed their feelings and opinions. But aren't people who love you supposed to be kind and forgiving of your flaws? Everyone messes up. Everyone has their not-their-best moments. The beauty of family and love is that you can know someone at their worst and still accept them and love them. "

Yes, everyone messes ups. Yes, everyone has flaws.

But when they are repeated and ongoing "messups" that are regularly unkind, routinely disrespectful, and constantly dismissive... that is different. Very few people will become estranged because of one, single isolated mistake. But I've done it if it's an ongoing pattern and the person has not exhibited real remorse or willingness to change. That may not be abuse to you, but it is to others.

And no, family is not my "ride or die." I don't believe in the concept. I believe in treating people how you want to be treated. Hoping that other people want me in their life because of the person that I am, not some genes. I don't believe in some Trump-ism concept of "loyalty" where people stick by you against their values and ethics or treatment - you have to earn the company you keep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

"Of course people are allowed their feelings and opinions. But aren't people who love you supposed to be kind and forgiving of your flaws? Everyone messes up. Everyone has their not-their-best moments. The beauty of family and love is that you can know someone at their worst and still accept them and love them. "

Yes, everyone messes ups. Yes, everyone has flaws.

But when they are repeated and ongoing "messups" that are regularly unkind, routinely disrespectful, and constantly dismissive... that is different. Very few people will become estranged because of one, single isolated mistake. But I've done it if it's an ongoing pattern and the person has not exhibited real remorse or willingness to change. That may not be abuse to you, but it is to others.

And no, family is not my "ride or die." I don't believe in the concept. I believe in treating people how you want to be treated. Hoping that other people want me in their life because of the person that I am, not some genes. I don't believe in some Trump-ism concept of "loyalty" where people stick by you against their values and ethics or treatment - you have to earn the company you keep.

Are you always so perfect that in your whole life with someone you have only messed up once?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

"Of course people are allowed their feelings and opinions. But aren't people who love you supposed to be kind and forgiving of your flaws? Everyone messes up. Everyone has their not-their-best moments. The beauty of family and love is that you can know someone at their worst and still accept them and love them. "

Yes, everyone messes ups. Yes, everyone has flaws.

But when they are repeated and ongoing "messups" that are regularly unkind, routinely disrespectful, and constantly dismissive... that is different. Very few people will become estranged because of one, single isolated mistake. But I've done it if it's an ongoing pattern and the person has not exhibited real remorse or willingness to change. That may not be abuse to you, but it is to others.

And no, family is not my "ride or die." I don't believe in the concept. I believe in treating people how you want to be treated. Hoping that other people want me in their life because of the person that I am, not some genes. I don't believe in some Trump-ism concept of "loyalty" where people stick by you against their values and ethics or treatment - you have to earn the company you keep.

Are you always so perfect that in your whole life with someone you have only messed up once?

Nope. But I am not so narcissistic to think that if I routinely mess up, other people won't be hurt, let down, or want to distance themselves from me. All actions - including my own - have consequences.

[Anonymous]

As someone who has had a bunch of people in her family cut each other off and has been really saddened by estrangements I don't understand, I'm still not willing to get on board with your dismissal of people's reasons for cutting off family members. As an outsider, you don't truly know what that person experienced or how it hurt them, so you're not really in a position to judge.

[Anonymous]

People don’t abandon relationships on one error. It’s years of problems that take a toll. When a crisis occurs there is no cushion for understanding nor tolerance. It may seem as though the crisis is at fault and the severance was an overreaction, but the foundation was crumbling for quite some time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This prevalence of casually eliminating your close blood relatives from your life, to me, is pretty disturbing. Again to be clear, I do not mean situations where people have had the unfortunate occurrence of being born into a family with drug addicts or alcoholics or with any form of abuse. I mean normal families made up of normal, every day, well intentioned but inevitably flawed individuals.

These are the mothers who love their children but also pressured them to excel academically, almost to a fault.

These are the fathers who worked hard to provide for their families and as such more time in board rooms and business travel than cheering at every soccer game.

These are the parents who adore their children and are good people but happen to be Republican or support Trump.

These are the Muslim parents who gave up everything to move their family to the U.S for a better life but did not have the cultural knowledge to help their children adjust to a new culture.

These are the dads who work so much that when they come home they might be exhausted and be a little short with their children.

This is the single mom who maybe perhaps treated her kids more like friends than children.

etc etc

So many of these children grow up and viciously cut off their mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers claiming "abuse!" and "toxicity."

Of course people are allowed their feelings and opinions. But aren't people who love you supposed to be kind and forgiving of your flaws? Everyone messes up. Everyone has their not-their-best moments. The beauty of family and love is that you can know someone at their worst and still accept them and love them.

Nowadays you are tiptoeing around your loved ones out of the fear that you may accidentally hurt their feelings and never be invited to spend Christmas with them again!

What a crazy thought!

I challenge the premise that this is a common occurrence. I don't know anyone who has cut off their relatives in real life, so people who do this probably have a very good reason.

[Anonymous]

Eh, when people are constantly writing letters and emails telling other family members what to do and how they should behave, I say it's easier to just not deal with them at all. If they can't accept that people are individuals and need to be able to make their own choices, then it is easier to step away from the drama.

[Anonymous]

Sure, I love and accept some of my more challenging family members. I don't wish harm on them. But I also keep my distance with them. Friendly and polite when we are together, but not bending over backward to be sucked into their day to day lives.

Once there is a "taker" in the family, it becomes clear you have to have boundaries or you will be living your life according to that person forever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This prevalence of casually eliminating your close blood relatives from your life, to me, is pretty disturbing. Again to be clear, I do not mean situations where people have had the unfortunate occurrence of being born into a family with drug addicts or alcoholics or with any form of abuse. I mean normal families made up of normal, every day, well intentioned but inevitably flawed individuals.

These are the mothers who love their children but also pressured them to excel academically, almost to a fault.

These are the fathers who worked hard to provide for their families and as such more time in board rooms and business travel than cheering at every soccer game.

These are the parents who adore their children and are good people but happen to be Republican or support Trump.

These are the Muslim parents who gave up everything to move their family to the U.S for a better life but did not have the cultural knowledge to help their children adjust to a new culture.

These are the dads who work so much that when they come home they might be exhausted and be a little short with their children.

This is the single mom who maybe perhaps treated her kids more like friends than children.

etc etc

So many of these children grow up and viciously cut off their mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers claiming "abuse!" and "toxicity."

Of course people are allowed their feelings and opinions. But aren't people who love you supposed to be kind and forgiving of your flaws? Everyone messes up. Everyone has their not-their-best moments. The beauty of family and love is that you can know someone at their worst and still accept them and love them.

Nowadays you are tiptoeing around your loved ones out of the fear that you may accidentally hurt their feelings and never be invited to spend Christmas with them again!

What a crazy thought!

Everyone I know who has experience with estrangement was for all of the reason you initially excluded. I think any/all of these "well-intention" example are typically included unless as part a symptom of their other issues. I shall provide real examples where I can that I know to illustrate this point.

Examples:

These are the mothers who love their children but also pressured them to excel academically, almost to a fault. My high school friend committed suicide in after she flunked out of an Ivy as she couldn't handle the pressure from the mother. The mother would not allow her to move home after she flunked out given the shame of it. As a result, she committed suicide. Her sister won't talk to the mother as she is to blame for pushing the sister so hard and to her death

These are the fathers who worked hard to provide for their families and as such more time in board rooms and business travel than cheering at every soccer game. No example here

These are the parents who adore their children and are good people but happen to be Republican or support Trump. My story about being disowned by my racist 45 supporting parents because I'm married to someone else of a different race. You can't be good people and like 45

These are the Muslim parents who gave up everything to move their family to the U.S for a better life but did not have the cultural knowledge to help their children adjust to a new culture. Law associate friend who married a someone outside her religion. Her parents and family kicked her out.

These are the dads who work so much that when they come home they might be exhausted and be a little short with their children. I guess I can group this with my college friend's father who was exhausted and short with him growing up and eventually disowned him for being gay, but other than that no example of a kid cutting off the father for exactly this.

This is the single mom who maybe perhaps treated her kids more like friends than children. Or my bff from college whose single mom had too many men coming in and out of her life, and one ended up sexually assaulting her as a child. When she told her mom, she didn't believe her.

I assume that you are OP or one of the PPs from the "How do you feel about people who cut off family for no reason?" thread. As I mentioned on that thread, there is always a reason, and it probably way more horrible than you've been told. If you disagree, what your personal experiences with this?

[Anonymous]

Only two reasons this happens.

1) It's way worse behind the scenes than you ever knew.

2) Individual who chooses to be estranged has mental health issues of their own.

Either way its either none of your business or you don't have a nuanced view of what's happening in your own family.

My family IS my ride or die honestly, but they are also nutjobs and I have considered cutting them off because sometimes I am hurt by being around them. I chose instead to just move far away, its been awesome. But I don't judge, I've been there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

"Of course people are allowed their feelings and opinions. But aren't people who love you supposed to be kind and forgiving of your flaws? Everyone messes up. Everyone has their not-their-best moments. The beauty of family and love is that you can know someone at their worst and still accept them and love them. "

Yes, everyone messes ups. Yes, everyone has flaws.

But when they are repeated and ongoing "messups" that are regularly unkind, routinely disrespectful, and constantly dismissive... that is different. Very few people will become estranged because of one, single isolated mistake. But I've done it if it's an ongoing pattern and the person has not exhibited real remorse or willingness to change. That may not be abuse to you, but it is to others.

And no, family is not my "ride or die." I don't believe in the concept. I believe in treating people how you want to be treated. Hoping that other people want me in their life because of the person that I am, not some genes. I don't believe in some Trump-ism concept of "loyalty" where people stick by you against their values and ethics or treatment - you have to earn the company you keep.

[Anonymous]

Please explain ride or die.

[Anonymous]

My immediate family is ride or die only. Everyone else is extra.

I define immediate family as those who live in your house. So, my immediate family is my DH and our 3 kids. My parents, his parents, siblings, etc. are extra.

You sound like a MIL or mom with grown children, so no you are no longer ride or die in your children's books.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please explain ride or die.

Yes, what does this even mean? I've never heard this expression and it is not really self-explanatory. Well, at least not to me.