Reported hazing incident involving Damascus High School JV Football team

[Anonymous]

I obviously have not read all 49 pages but I have read many including the most recent and it seems hard to understand how people would say that canceling football for a year punishes innocent kids. School is at least in significant part about teaching kids about consequences for actions, right and wrong, and all that. Kids also need to know that when they turn their back on obviously improper behavior they should pay a price too, that is what it means when you say there are consequences for your actions. But the real issue here is not what those poor Freshman kids who were running sprints on the field should suffer but that MPCS seems uninterested in what happened to the kids who were brutally assaulted and is instead concerned about conducting a proper investigation that will drag on until people forget about the issue (probably after the Holiday break will work), the privacy rights of students and employees and having to tussle with the union. I am an employment attorney who also handles public employees and all of the coaches, top to bottom could be fired without legal liability, guaranteed. And I think cleaning house would make good sense, and I would probably toss out the Principal too who is actually easier to fire than employees but the County still hesitates to take any actions. How many more kids need to be harmed before the County the acts? If the County fired the employees would the County be sued, maybe, but would they lose, not a chance. Given what has come out so far, it seems this was clearly a ritual, and I suspect a long-standing and well-known ritual, and that is all one would need. But if the Coaches were at all decent, they would also resign to give the program a chance at a fresh start. I think the worst aspect of the Coutny's response is it seems calculated to say that the success of the Varsity program should not be tainted. Shameful, particularly from educators who are supposed to be setting an example. Shameful. As it happens, I watched an episode of Friday Night Lights last night where Coach Taylor says to his wife something like, "I know what would be easiest but don't I have to do what is right?" It would be nice if one person at MCPS asked themselves that issue because as his wife responded, yes you do, and the County should as well but that does not seem to be how it thinks at all.

[Anonymous]

People will haze and worse until people at the very top send an extremely strong message. I have no kids in MCPS but am absolutely stunned that MCPS hasn’t cleaned house. They should position staff in the locker room at all times—the kids forfeited any privacy. They should have canceled the football season, they should fire the coaches, and fire the principal too. And they should fire the head of athletics who clearly has a systemwide program and is walking around “we-raise-ing” all over the place. Shame on them. Frankly I think the superintendent should go, too. That video was so tone deaf and insufficient.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People will haze and worse until people at the very top send an extremely strong message. I have no kids in MCPS but am absolutely stunned that MCPS hasn’t cleaned house. They should position staff in the locker room at all times—the kids forfeited any privacy. They should have canceled the football season, they should fire the coaches, and fire the principal too. And they should fire the head of athletics who clearly has a systemwide program and is walking around “we-raise-ing” all over the place. Shame on them. Frankly I think the superintendent should go, too. That video was so tone deaf and insufficient.

Problem not program,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I obviously have not read all 49 pages but I have read many including the most recent and it seems hard to understand how people would say that canceling football for a year punishes innocent kids. School is at least in significant part about teaching kids about consequences for actions, right and wrong, and all that. Kids also need to know that when they turn their back on obviously improper behavior they should pay a price too, that is what it means when you say there are consequences for your actions. But the real issue here is not what those poor Freshman kids who were running sprints on the field should suffer but that MPCS seems uninterested in what happened to the kids who were brutally assaulted and is instead concerned about conducting a proper investigation that will drag on until people forget about the issue (probably after the Holiday break will work), the privacy rights of students and employees and having to tussle with the union. I am an employment attorney who also handles public employees and all of the coaches, top to bottom could be fired without legal liability, guaranteed. And I think cleaning house would make good sense, and I would probably toss out the Principal too who is actually easier to fire than employees but the County still hesitates to take any actions. How many more kids need to be harmed before the County the acts? If the County fired the employees would the County be sued, maybe, but would they lose, not a chance. Given what has come out so far, it seems this was clearly a ritual, and I suspect a long-standing and well-known ritual, and that is all one would need. But if the Coaches were at all decent, they would also resign to give the program a chance at a fresh start. I think the worst aspect of the Coutny's response is it seems calculated to say that the success of the Varsity program should not be tainted. Shameful, particularly from educators who are supposed to be setting an example. Shameful. As it happens, I watched an episode of Friday Night Lights last night where Coach Taylor says to his wife something like, "I know what would be easiest but don't I have to do what is right?" It would be nice if one person at MCPS asked themselves that issue because as his wife responded, yes you do, and the County should as well but that does not seem to be how it thinks at all.

I'm not sure what's wrong with MCPS conducting a proper investigation. That would be the precursor to disciplinary action.

[Anonymous]

And MCPS cannot do their own separate investigation until AFTER the police finish theirs.

[Anonymous]

I still have trouble with the idea that juveniles should be tried as adults because the crime was really bad. It just screams of playing to emotion and outrage rather than logic. The justice system should not be about emotion and outrage. "How would you feel if it was your child?" is not the right question. If it were my child I'd want to go after the perps with a tire iron, but that doesn't suddenly become OK, either.

If you claim that a 15-year-old has an adult capacity for crime, then why is the age of majority not 15? Upon conviction, will the juvenile also gain the right to smoke cigarettes and enter into binding contracts like an adult, or do they only have an adult criminal brain and the rest of them is too immature? The inconsistency is nonsensical.

In much of the world, the age of criminal responsibility is 14 or 15. Or higher. That doesn't mean that they charge kids under 15 as juveniles. It means they don't charge them with anything at all because they are presumed to lack capacity until that point.

I get what the law in MD says. I don't think the law has it right. The American justice system is a mess based mostly on what feels right and not based in what science or data actually say about things. Many things that feel good are not actually the right thing to do.

[Anonymous]

actually its the opposite PP. those laws WERE well-thought out, objective, and based on data and expert advice (ie. psychiatrists, experienced law enforcers, repeat offender interviews, etc.).

[Anonymous]

So I had the lengthy post above and it was not directed at whether the students should be charged as adults. That is not an issue for MCPS, and should have nothing to do with how it responds. As for the investigation, it would be fine if they were conducting a real investigation, which might even be required for the coaches but not for the Principal who should be an employee at will (I have heard that Prncipals are union members but that is kind of crazy since in general management can't unionize since they run the operation but it might be something that MCPS has agreed to but certainly not necessary). But they are not conducting a real investigation, they are just stalling in the hope that things blow over. If you watch the video, read articles, about what the Superintendent has said, there is no concern whatsoever about the raped kids and only concern about how MCPS and the Damascus Varsity football team is portrayed, and that is inexecusable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So I had the lengthy post above and it was not directed at whether the students should be charged as adults. That is not an issue for MCPS, and should have nothing to do with how it responds. As for the investigation, it would be fine if they were conducting a real investigation, which might even be required for the coaches but not for the Principal who should be an employee at will (I have heard that Prncipals are union members but that is kind of crazy since in general management can't unionize since they run the operation but it might be something that MCPS has agreed to but certainly not necessary). But they are not conducting a real investigation, they are just stalling in the hope that things blow over. If you watch the video, read articles, about what the Superintendent has said, there is no concern whatsoever about the raped kids and only concern about how MCPS and the Damascus Varsity football team is portrayed, and that is inexecusable.

I agree with this pp completely and am sure mcps would love for everyone to forget about them and focus on whether these kids are tried as juveniles or adults. Also, PP, to sort of address your question, principals do have their own union and the school board signs off on it just as they sign off on the teacher union contract, but principals have a weaker union than teachers with fewer protections. Usually with principals, they're demoted to the last position where they were successful. So if Casey Crouse had been an AP, she would return to a high school as an AP. The fact that MCPS isn't out in front of this and sending a powerful message speaks to the frenetic, disorganized nature of the central office. There's a leadership void. Everyone just wants to step on the backs of the people below them to attain or keep their power. Then they lord it over teachers and parents. I think they all effing hate their jobs though--that's the irony.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nah, they would put in for COSA and play at another school ?

Don't we all subscribe to the belief that MCPS doesn't believe in any actual consequences?

If they are a good kid with no disciplinary issues, the COSA will be denied. COSAs are actually hard to get. If a COSA is approved, Jeff Sullivan would have to approve an athletic waiver for your kid to be eligible to play football at the new school for the first year. Athletic waivers are harder to get than COSAs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nah, they would put in for COSA and play at another school ?

Don't we all subscribe to the belief that MCPS doesn't believe in any actual consequences?

No.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I agree with this pp completely and am sure mcps would love for everyone to forget about them and focus on whether these kids are tried as juveniles or adults. Also, PP, to sort of address your question, principals do have their own union and the school board signs off on it just as they sign off on the teacher union contract, but principals have a weaker union than teachers with fewer protections. Usually with principals, they're demoted to the last position where they were successful. So if Casey Crouse had been an AP, she would return to a high school as an AP. The fact that MCPS isn't out in front of this and sending a powerful message speaks to the frenetic, disorganized nature of the central office. There's a leadership void. Everyone just wants to step on the backs of the people below them to attain or keep their power. Then they lord it over teachers and parents. I think they all effing hate their jobs though--that's the irony.

Juveniles vs. adults is a real issue -- but not an MCPS issue. The MCPS issues are to what extent people in MCPS should have been able to prevent the events and how people in MCPS reacted to the events afterwards.

I do think that, at minimum, the rest of the football season should have been canceled, pending the investigation. I e-mailed the superintendent to say so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I obviously have not read all 49 pages but I have read many including the most recent and it seems hard to understand how people would say that canceling football for a year punishes innocent kids. School is at least in significant part about teaching kids about consequences for actions, right and wrong, and all that. Kids also need to know that when they turn their back on obviously improper behavior they should pay a price too, that is what it means when you say there are consequences for your actions. But the real issue here is not what those poor Freshman kids who were running sprints on the field should suffer but that MPCS seems uninterested in what happened to the kids who were brutally assaulted and is instead concerned about conducting a proper investigation that will drag on until people forget about the issue (probably after the Holiday break will work), the privacy rights of students and employees and having to tussle with the union. I am an employment attorney who also handles public employees and all of the coaches, top to bottom could be fired without legal liability, guaranteed. And I think cleaning house would make good sense, and I would probably toss out the Principal too who is actually easier to fire than employees but the County still hesitates to take any actions. How many more kids need to be harmed before the County the acts? If the County fired the employees would the County be sued, maybe, but would they lose, not a chance. Given what has come out so far, it seems this was clearly a ritual, and I suspect a long-standing and well-known ritual, and that is all one would need. But if the Coaches were at all decent, they would also resign to give the program a chance at a fresh start. I think the worst aspect of the Coutny's response is it seems calculated to say that the success of the Varsity program should not be tainted. Shameful, particularly from educators who are supposed to be setting an example. Shameful. As it happens, I watched an episode of Friday Night Lights last night where Coach Taylor says to his wife something like, "I know what would be easiest but don't I have to do what is right?" It would be nice if one person at MCPS asked themselves that issue because as his wife responded, yes you do, and the County should as well but that does not seem to be how it thinks at all.

+1000 Damascus HS is not the only high school with a serious problem on an athletics team that MCPS has avoided dealing with. The difference with Damascus is the level of the crime that was committed has caused what happened to make national news.

Stalling to make decisions so the issue is off everyone's radar is MCPS method of operation. Leaving bad people in non-tenured, non-union coaching jobs is not a new practice. Despite what the Superintendent says at a press conferences, MCPS actively interfered with a police investigation when the Principal interviewed the entire JV Football prior to calling the police. That also is a common practice in MCPS.

The Superintendent was hoping the perpetrators would be tried as juveniles so all records are sealed. Now, MCPS's dirty laundry will be aired on a national media stage. The Superintendent is a puppet that swings in the direction those underneath him points him to. The Board of Education could care less if children are being abused in their schools. Damascus is not the only school children have been abused but the coaches keep their jobs. Damascus is not the only school where abuse takes the form of a hazing ritual but as a parent, would you know how to report child abuse, hazing, or harassment to the school? How long would that process take? As far as an internal investigation, would you ever know the results? The pre-determined outcome would be the same - everything is puppy dogs and unicorns, no evidence of misconduct so the coaches are cleared of any accusations (despite what parents and students know what happened).

For any Damascus parent who is considering filing suit against MCPS for what happened to your child, have your attorney give a public statement so I would know how to contact them. I have evidence that what happened at Damascus is not unique. MCPS should have strengthened it's protections for students years ago. Ignoring problems and faults in their athletic programs has caused children to be injured due to abuse all across the county. MCPS is indifferent to protecting children which is causing the numbers of victims to skyrocket in their schools. MCPS is not publicly talking about what their plans are for the coaches and Princiapal because until they feel the heat, all MCPS employees will remain in place.

[Anonymous]

DEATH PENALTY FOR THE DAMASCUS FOOTBALL PROGRAM.

AT LEAST FOR ONE YEAR.

IT'S THE ONLY WAY TO STOP THIS MADNESS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I obviously have not read all 49 pages but I have read many including the most recent and it seems hard to understand how people would say that canceling football for a year punishes innocent kids. School is at least in significant part about teaching kids about consequences for actions, right and wrong, and all that. Kids also need to know that when they turn their back on obviously improper behavior they should pay a price too, that is what it means when you say there are consequences for your actions. But the real issue here is not what those poor Freshman kids who were running sprints on the field should suffer but that MPCS seems uninterested in what happened to the kids who were brutally assaulted and is instead concerned about conducting a proper investigation that will drag on until people forget about the issue (probably after the Holiday break will work), the privacy rights of students and employees and having to tussle with the union. I am an employment attorney who also handles public employees and all of the coaches, top to bottom could be fired without legal liability, guaranteed. And I think cleaning house would make good sense, and I would probably toss out the Principal too who is actually easier to fire than employees but the County still hesitates to take any actions. How many more kids need to be harmed before the County the acts? If the County fired the employees would the County be sued, maybe, but would they lose, not a chance. Given what has come out so far, it seems this was clearly a ritual, and I suspect a long-standing and well-known ritual, and that is all one would need. But if the Coaches were at all decent, they would also resign to give the program a chance at a fresh start. I think the worst aspect of the Coutny's response is it seems calculated to say that the success of the Varsity program should not be tainted. Shameful, particularly from educators who are supposed to be setting an example. Shameful. As it happens, I watched an episode of Friday Night Lights last night where Coach Taylor says to his wife something like, "I know what would be easiest but don't I have to do what is right?" It would be nice if one person at MCPS asked themselves that issue because as his wife responded, yes you do, and the County should as well but that does not seem to be how it thinks at all.

+1000 Damascus HS is not the only high school with a serious problem on an athletics team that MCPS has avoided dealing with. The difference with Damascus is the level of the crime that was committed has caused what happened to make national news.

Stalling to make decisions so the issue is off everyone's radar is MCPS method of operation. Leaving bad people in non-tenured, non-union coaching jobs is not a new practice. Despite what the Superintendent says at a press conferences, MCPS actively interfered with a police investigation when the Principal interviewed the entire JV Football prior to calling the police. That also is a common practice in MCPS.

The Superintendent was hoping the perpetrators would be tried as juveniles so all records are sealed. Now, MCPS's dirty laundry will be aired on a national media stage. The Superintendent is a puppet that swings in the direction those underneath him points him to. The Board of Education could care less if children are being abused in their schools. Damascus is not the only school children have been abused but the coaches keep their jobs. Damascus is not the only school where abuse takes the form of a hazing ritual but as a parent, would you know how to report child abuse, hazing, or harassment to the school? How long would that process take? As far as an internal investigation, would you ever know the results? The pre-determined outcome would be the same - everything is puppy dogs and unicorns, no evidence of misconduct so the coaches are cleared of any accusations (despite what parents and students know what happened).

For any Damascus parent who is considering filing suit against MCPS for what happened to your child, have your attorney give a public statement so I would know how to contact them. I have evidence that what happened at Damascus is not unique. MCPS should have strengthened it's protections for students years ago. Ignoring problems and faults in their athletic programs has caused children to be injured due to abuse all across the county. MCPS is indifferent to protecting children which is causing the numbers of victims to skyrocket in their schools. MCPS is not publicly talking about what their plans are for the coaches and Principal because until they feel the heat, all MCPS employees will remain in place.

+1 Another poster completely agreeing with both posts. It is absolutely shameful that MCPS has no desire to find out the culture and prior acts/circumstances. They so quickly hung the perpetrators out to dry and tried to distance all coaches and administration at school and County rather than find out all the history. Do they really not care? Throw a bunch of their 15 year old students (their students) to the media and courts to save face for every adult touching the team. And of course the rapists need to be charged, tried and punished but it was really pathetic that the football program was not suspended until everything was investigated top to bottom. Messed up priorities in the worst form -- and I am a huge sports and football fan. Really shameful.