Parents of small children - how are you managing RTO?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the real world 40 hours is the minimum hours worked. So workers are in the office a lot more than govt employees realize pre-covid.

If I had a Dentist Appointment or Doctors Appointment or Kids activity and I had to leave on time. Not early. I have to ask my boss usually.

Going back to office 40 yours a week is the absolute bare minimun in real worlds.

Places I worked at we often staff it based on a 50 hour week. We could hire 20 percent less workers. We be more profitable, we have less real estate rent, less people on medical plan. And even 50 hours is not a long day. If you eat at your desk and skip lunch it is 8-6pm

And in busy season when i was big four, we usually work 8-8 every day 60 hour weeks.

In summer we worked only 40 hour a week and felt like a vacation none of us knew what to do with all the free time.

When I worked at Citigroup we had a rule unless my dept was working at least 45 hours a week each we could not hire. Makes sense, how are you short staffed if no one is working OT?

Oh look, I used to work for an investment bank too so I'll chime in. In the "real world", you get market based bonuses, RSUs, etc to compensate you for that private sector work. In the Federal government, you're lucky if you get a cost of living adjustment that almost keeps up with inflation. These two are not the same and neither is your humble brag from a loser experience.

Thats executives. At my place at least 50 percent of company in cubes or admin just worked those hours and got squat.

Wow! What terrible career choices you made indeed! You should have made different ones.

For me I did my time and did get the corner office by 45. However, the fact remains. only 10 percent of company were in senior roles. 90 percent of company did their work for little pay and long hours. And where I got my break was not at my prior company. I did work.

If people were called back to work and worked 50 hours a week. I mean like a dog, then they let Dawins Law take effect there be no need this drama. By 2026 only Rock Stars will be left

Really? More like only the truly desperate will be left. Which is highly unlikely to be the highest performers.

[Anonymous]

It took my spouse 2+ hours to drive 20 miles home yesterday because some bumbletweed had to turn their truck around on 495. This is fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been on work calls with DoD employees around mid morning, calling into calls from gymnastics camp. Same client, couldn’t schedule Friday meetings either.

Summer swim team has fed employees (GS-15) working from the pool at 10am swim practices.

I have one client (fed employee) who worked 1/2 day Monday, 12hrs/day Tuesday- Thursday, and off on Friday. HQ agency desk job (eg not medical, shift work, etc).

I think these are the types situation that most people are upset about. Why are taxpayers paying for a fed employee to work from a pool while doing summer childcare. They should have hired a nanny/teenager to take kid to swim team.

These things are nice to have but shouldn’t be taken as granted when the avg American people are struggling.

#1 and 2 (calling in from midmorning kids activities) I wouldn't do, I don't let my kids do summer swim or half day camps because they're not compatible with two working parents. I'm not a GS-15 either, not all feds make the MAX salary!

But the third one...that's a 40 hour week, for someone in an HQ desk job, not covering a public station with specific open hours. Why does that bother you? Lots of nurses work three 12-hour shifts, this is that plus a half day.

None of it bothers me. I don’t really care. But obviously some average American voters are bothered enough to vote for a dictator.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been on work calls with DoD employees around mid morning, calling into calls from gymnastics camp. Same client, couldn’t schedule Friday meetings either.

Summer swim team has fed employees (GS-15) working from the pool at 10am swim practices.

I have one client (fed employee) who worked 1/2 day Monday, 12hrs/day Tuesday- Thursday, and off on Friday. HQ agency desk job (eg not medical, shift work, etc).

I think these are the types situation that most people are upset about. Why are taxpayers paying for a fed employee to work from a pool while doing summer childcare. They should have hired a nanny/teenager to take kid to swim team.

These things are nice to have but shouldn’t be taken as granted when the avg American people are struggling.

I think they should be taken for granted. The average American should be clamoring for these benefits, too. The government competes over the exact same labor as private industry. The client on a maxiflex schedule was working 80 hours a week. Same with the person not working Fridays. Or maybe they were part time—are part time schedules not allowed?

Instead of demanding everyone regress down to the lowest level of labor protections, why aren’t people asking “hey, if the government can give those benefits, why can’t I?” These are the same Americans who applaud tax breaks for the rich because who knows, one day they might be rich too.

If someone wants what someone else has, you try to get it. You don’t take it away from everyone.

And your average american doesn’t interact with GS15s on a daily basis. The anger towards feds had nothing to do with remote work and telework. It is anger towards the availability of WFH in the entire white collar industry. We are just a proxy for that.

So much this. The whole rhetoric on this thread shows why we keep regressing (so many corporate apologists) instead of progressing toward better work conditions for more people. Instead of improving things, it's about petty griping on who is getting a "benefit" you don't have.

The US as a country will need to become like France or Germany to achieve this…I don’t know if it’s politically or economically fessible to make this type of shift. Germany’s economy is really struggling right now as are most EU economies. I know some of this is due to Chinese competition, but is the structure, if you will, of the economy also to blame?

No one is stopping you from moving to France. Go enjoy the 20% youth unemployment rate.

[Anonymous]

My response to RTO etc. is fewer children than I’d ideally want, rather than drop out and breed for the patriarchy. If the pro-natalists want more kids and future taxpayers, they need to make things more manageable for parents now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the real world 40 hours is the minimum hours worked. So workers are in the office a lot more than govt employees realize pre-covid.

If I had a Dentist Appointment or Doctors Appointment or Kids activity and I had to leave on time. Not early. I have to ask my boss usually.

Going back to office 40 yours a week is the absolute bare minimun in real worlds.

Places I worked at we often staff it based on a 50 hour week. We could hire 20 percent less workers. We be more profitable, we have less real estate rent, less people on medical plan. And even 50 hours is not a long day. If you eat at your desk and skip lunch it is 8-6pm

And in busy season when i was big four, we usually work 8-8 every day 60 hour weeks.

In summer we worked only 40 hour a week and felt like a vacation none of us knew what to do with all the free time.

When I worked at Citigroup we had a rule unless my dept was working at least 45 hours a week each we could not hire. Makes sense, how are you short staffed if no one is working OT?

Oh look, I used to work for an investment bank too so I'll chime in. In the "real world", you get market based bonuses, RSUs, etc to compensate you for that private sector work. In the Federal government, you're lucky if you get a cost of living adjustment that almost keeps up with inflation. These two are not the same and neither is your humble brag from a loser experience.

Thats executives. At my place at least 50 percent of company in cubes or admin just worked those hours and got squat.

Wow! What terrible career choices you made indeed! You should have made different ones.

For me I did my time and did get the corner office by 45. However, the fact remains. only 10 percent of company were in senior roles. 90 percent of company did their work for little pay and long hours. And where I got my break was not at my prior company. I did work.

If people were called back to work and worked 50 hours a week. I mean like a dog, then they let Dawins Law take effect there be no need this drama. By 2026 only Rock Stars will be left

Really? More like only the truly desperate will be left. Which is highly unlikely to be the highest performers.

Not true at all. At Big 4 when you make manager they always tell you 90 percent of you wont make Partner. People stay till they realize the Brass Ring is not happening. Same at FAANGMT type companies and IB. High Performers don't quit too often. Too much RSUs and bonus vesting.

My last Rodeo at a Hyper Growth start up where I was on SMT I was kicking it. But at year two Father time was catching up with me and I decided I am jumping rather than sliding. Which is something Musk and Dimon would be proud of. Put in the work and if you decide you no longer want to then leave.

Hence the problem. The young hungry people are getting kicked out and folks like me are not leaving. And I am humble. I knew I was reaching Point I could not pretend to keep us so why bother. I think a lot of people need to do this but they are not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the real world 40 hours is the minimum hours worked. So workers are in the office a lot more than govt employees realize pre-covid.

If I had a Dentist Appointment or Doctors Appointment or Kids activity and I had to leave on time. Not early. I have to ask my boss usually.

Going back to office 40 yours a week is the absolute bare minimun in real worlds.

Places I worked at we often staff it based on a 50 hour week. We could hire 20 percent less workers. We be more profitable, we have less real estate rent, less people on medical plan. And even 50 hours is not a long day. If you eat at your desk and skip lunch it is 8-6pm

And in busy season when i was big four, we usually work 8-8 every day 60 hour weeks.

In summer we worked only 40 hour a week and felt like a vacation none of us knew what to do with all the free time.

When I worked at Citigroup we had a rule unless my dept was working at least 45 hours a week each we could not hire. Makes sense, how are you short staffed if no one is working OT?

Oh look, I used to work for an investment bank too so I'll chime in. In the "real world", you get market based bonuses, RSUs, etc to compensate you for that private sector work. In the Federal government, you're lucky if you get a cost of living adjustment that almost keeps up with inflation. These two are not the same and neither is your humble brag from a loser experience.

Thats executives. At my place at least 50 percent of company in cubes or admin just worked those hours and got squat.

Wow! What terrible career choices you made indeed! You should have made different ones.

For me I did my time and did get the corner office by 45. However, the fact remains. only 10 percent of company were in senior roles. 90 percent of company did their work for little pay and long hours. And where I got my break was not at my prior company. I did work.

If people were called back to work and worked 50 hours a week. I mean like a dog, then they let Dawins Law take effect there be no need this drama. By 2026 only Rock Stars will be left

Really? More like only the truly desperate will be left. Which is highly unlikely to be the highest performers.

Not true at all. At Big 4 when you make manager they always tell you 90 percent of you wont make Partner. People stay till they realize the Brass Ring is not happening. Same at FAANGMT type companies and IB. High Performers don't quit too often. Too much RSUs and bonus vesting.

My last Rodeo at a Hyper Growth start up where I was on SMT I was kicking it. But at year two Father time was catching up with me and I decided I am jumping rather than sliding. Which is something Musk and Dimon would be proud of. Put in the work and if you decide you no longer want to then leave.

Hence the problem. The young hungry people are getting kicked out and folks like me are not leaving. And I am humble. I knew I was reaching Point I could not pretend to keep us so why bother. I think a lot of people need to do this but they are not.

Yeah, except Federal government was never supposed to be "putting in the work" like a FAANG or IB with the hope of significant payoff in bonuses or equity. The mission, quality of life, stability and long term benefits were the draw and that's going, going and almost gone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been on work calls with DoD employees around mid morning, calling into calls from gymnastics camp. Same client, couldn’t schedule Friday meetings either.

Summer swim team has fed employees (GS-15) working from the pool at 10am swim practices.

I have one client (fed employee) who worked 1/2 day Monday, 12hrs/day Tuesday- Thursday, and off on Friday. HQ agency desk job (eg not medical, shift work, etc).

I think these are the types situation that most people are upset about. Why are taxpayers paying for a fed employee to work from a pool while doing summer childcare. They should have hired a nanny/teenager to take kid to swim team.

These things are nice to have but shouldn’t be taken as granted when the avg American people are struggling.

#1 and 2 (calling in from midmorning kids activities) I wouldn't do, I don't let my kids do summer swim or half day camps because they're not compatible with two working parents. I'm not a GS-15 either, not all feds make the MAX salary!

But the third one...that's a 40 hour week, for someone in an HQ desk job, not covering a public station with specific open hours. Why does that bother you? Lots of nurses work three 12-hour shifts, this is that plus a half day.

The reason nurses get the 12-hour shifts is because literally no one would be willing to work nights otherwise. If they have no nurses at night, people die. If Americans are fighting over this white-collar government job it doesn't make sense to give cushy hours.

You didn't explain why working three longer days in a non public facing desk job is doing any harm or wasting taxpayer money. It's the same total number of hours! What's the problem? Are you not allowed? I can't do that either, but I literally don't understand your issue with this schedule.

There are a couple of reasons why this wouldn't be allowed in a white collar job versus a nursing position. Number 1 is that during a 12 hour shift very few white collar workers are actually working 12 hours, and certainly not if they are working from home. Whereas the nurse is. Number 2 is that this is not the schedule most white collar workers follow, so then everyone else has to accommodate the 12 hour worker's limited schedule for meetings/collaboration. Maybe it's an independent contributor role with zero or very little collaboration, but that doesn't sound like the case with the PP's example above.

Different jobs have different requirements, as well as different prerequisite skills. Not all jobs can be treated the same. However, if you don't like the shifts at your job, you can lobby to have better conditions instead of telling people who have achieved a better balance that they can't have it if you don't.

So much jealousy on this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the real world 40 hours is the minimum hours worked. So workers are in the office a lot more than govt employees realize pre-covid.

If I had a Dentist Appointment or Doctors Appointment or Kids activity and I had to leave on time. Not early. I have to ask my boss usually.

Going back to office 40 yours a week is the absolute bare minimun in real worlds.

Places I worked at we often staff it based on a 50 hour week. We could hire 20 percent less workers. We be more profitable, we have less real estate rent, less people on medical plan. And even 50 hours is not a long day. If you eat at your desk and skip lunch it is 8-6pm

And in busy season when i was big four, we usually work 8-8 every day 60 hour weeks.

In summer we worked only 40 hour a week and felt like a vacation none of us knew what to do with all the free time.

When I worked at Citigroup we had a rule unless my dept was working at least 45 hours a week each we could not hire. Makes sense, how are you short staffed if no one is working OT?

Oh look, I used to work for an investment bank too so I'll chime in. In the "real world", you get market based bonuses, RSUs, etc to compensate you for that private sector work. In the Federal government, you're lucky if you get a cost of living adjustment that almost keeps up with inflation. These two are not the same and neither is your humble brag from a loser experience.

Thats executives. At my place at least 50 percent of company in cubes or admin just worked those hours and got squat. [/V

NP, also a former banker. Those admins in cubes who received fixed comp were gone at 5 on the dot. If you tried to give them urgent work at 4:30, they wouldn't even start until the next day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It took my spouse 2+ hours to drive 20 miles home yesterday because some bumbletweed had to turn their truck around on 495. This is fine.

Mine too. Nightmare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the real world 40 hours is the minimum hours worked. So workers are in the office a lot more than govt employees realize pre-covid.

If I had a Dentist Appointment or Doctors Appointment or Kids activity and I had to leave on time. Not early. I have to ask my boss usually.

Going back to office 40 yours a week is the absolute bare minimun in real worlds.

Places I worked at we often staff it based on a 50 hour week. We could hire 20 percent less workers. We be more profitable, we have less real estate rent, less people on medical plan. And even 50 hours is not a long day. If you eat at your desk and skip lunch it is 8-6pm

And in busy season when i was big four, we usually work 8-8 every day 60 hour weeks.

In summer we worked only 40 hour a week and felt like a vacation none of us knew what to do with all the free time.

When I worked at Citigroup we had a rule unless my dept was working at least 45 hours a week each we could not hire. Makes sense, how are you short staffed if no one is working OT?

Oh look, I used to work for an investment bank too so I'll chime in. In the "real world", you get market based bonuses, RSUs, etc to compensate you for that private sector work. In the Federal government, you're lucky if you get a cost of living adjustment that almost keeps up with inflation. These two are not the same and neither is your humble brag from a loser experience.

Thats executives. At my place at least 50 percent of company in cubes or admin just worked those hours and got squat.

Wow! What terrible career choices you made indeed! You should have made different ones.

For me I did my time and did get the corner office by 45. However, the fact remains. only 10 percent of company were in senior roles. 90 percent of company did their work for little pay and long hours. And where I got my break was not at my prior company. I did work.

If people were called back to work and worked 50 hours a week. I mean like a dog, then they let Dawins Law take effect there be no need this drama. By 2026 only Rock Stars will be left

Really? More like only the truly desperate will be left. Which is highly unlikely to be the highest performers.

Not true at all. At Big 4 when you make manager they always tell you 90 percent of you wont make Partner. People stay till they realize the Brass Ring is not happening. Same at FAANGMT type companies and IB. High Performers don't quit too often. Too much RSUs and bonus vesting.

My last Rodeo at a Hyper Growth start up where I was on SMT I was kicking it. But at year two Father time was catching up with me and I decided I am jumping rather than sliding. Which is something Musk and Dimon would be proud of. Put in the work and if you decide you no longer want to then leave.

Hence the problem. The young hungry people are getting kicked out and folks like me are not leaving. And I am humble. I knew I was reaching Point I could not pretend to keep us so why bother. I think a lot of people need to do this but they are not.

Yeah, except Federal government was never supposed to be "putting in the work" like a FAANG or IB with the hope of significant payoff in bonuses or equity. The mission, quality of life, stability and long term benefits were the draw and that's going, going and almost gone.

Faang doesn’t always have bonuses or equity. My spouse has never gotten either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everybody complaining about sh*tty inflexible jobs situations in the private sector should have made better choices, duh. And also care less about $$$.

Flexibility goes both ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the real world 40 hours is the minimum hours worked. So workers are in the office a lot more than govt employees realize pre-covid.

If I had a Dentist Appointment or Doctors Appointment or Kids activity and I had to leave on time. Not early. I have to ask my boss usually.

Going back to office 40 yours a week is the absolute bare minimun in real worlds.

Places I worked at we often staff it based on a 50 hour week. We could hire 20 percent less workers. We be more profitable, we have less real estate rent, less people on medical plan. And even 50 hours is not a long day. If you eat at your desk and skip lunch it is 8-6pm

And in busy season when i was big four, we usually work 8-8 every day 60 hour weeks.

In summer we worked only 40 hour a week and felt like a vacation none of us knew what to do with all the free time.

When I worked at Citigroup we had a rule unless my dept was working at least 45 hours a week each we could not hire. Makes sense, how are you short staffed if no one is working OT?

Oh look, I used to work for an investment bank too so I'll chime in. In the "real world", you get market based bonuses, RSUs, etc to compensate you for that private sector work. In the Federal government, you're lucky if you get a cost of living adjustment that almost keeps up with inflation. These two are not the same and neither is your humble brag from a loser experience.

Thats executives. At my place at least 50 percent of company in cubes or admin just worked those hours and got squat.

Wow! What terrible career choices you made indeed! You should have made different ones.

For me I did my time and did get the corner office by 45. However, the fact remains. only 10 percent of company were in senior roles. 90 percent of company did their work for little pay and long hours. And where I got my break was not at my prior company. I did work.

If people were called back to work and worked 50 hours a week. I mean like a dog, then they let Dawins Law take effect there be no need this drama. By 2026 only Rock Stars will be left

Really? More like only the truly desperate will be left. Which is highly unlikely to be the highest performers.

Not true at all. At Big 4 when you make manager they always tell you 90 percent of you wont make Partner. People stay till they realize the Brass Ring is not happening. Same at FAANGMT type companies and IB. High Performers don't quit too often. Too much RSUs and bonus vesting.

My last Rodeo at a Hyper Growth start up where I was on SMT I was kicking it. But at year two Father time was catching up with me and I decided I am jumping rather than sliding. Which is something Musk and Dimon would be proud of. Put in the work and if you decide you no longer want to then leave.

Hence the problem. The young hungry people are getting kicked out and folks like me are not leaving. And I am humble. I knew I was reaching Point I could not pretend to keep us so why bother. I think a lot of people need to do this but they are not.

Yeah, except Federal government was never supposed to be "putting in the work" like a FAANG or IB with the hope of significant payoff in bonuses or equity. The mission, quality of life, stability and long term benefits were the draw and that's going, going and almost gone.

Faang doesn’t always have bonuses or equity. My spouse has never gotten either.

It is with a catch. I got a 180K RSU sign on but it vests over four years with cliffs and then worry if it will be refreshed and with one year cliffs you get nervous before cliff date and quarterly reviews you have four times a year to get fired.

I seen lots of people canned prior to year one so got zero of sign-on. Just worked like a dog 3-10 months and out the door.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been on work calls with DoD employees around mid morning, calling into calls from gymnastics camp. Same client, couldn’t schedule Friday meetings either.

Summer swim team has fed employees (GS-15) working from the pool at 10am swim practices.

I have one client (fed employee) who worked 1/2 day Monday, 12hrs/day Tuesday- Thursday, and off on Friday. HQ agency desk job (eg not medical, shift work, etc).

I think these are the types situation that most people are upset about. Why are taxpayers paying for a fed employee to work from a pool while doing summer childcare. They should have hired a nanny/teenager to take kid to swim team.

These things are nice to have but shouldn’t be taken as granted when the avg American people are struggling.

I think they should be taken for granted. The average American should be clamoring for these benefits, too. The government competes over the exact same labor as private industry. The client on a maxiflex schedule was working 80 hours a week. Same with the person not working Fridays. Or maybe they were part time—are part time schedules not allowed?

Instead of demanding everyone regress down to the lowest level of labor protections, why aren’t people asking “hey, if the government can give those benefits, why can’t I?” These are the same Americans who applaud tax breaks for the rich because who knows, one day they might be rich too.

If someone wants what someone else has, you try to get it. You don’t take it away from everyone.

And your average american doesn’t interact with GS15s on a daily basis. The anger towards feds had nothing to do with remote work and telework. It is anger towards the availability of WFH in the entire white collar industry. We are just a proxy for that.

So much this. The whole rhetoric on this thread shows why we keep regressing (so many corporate apologists) instead of progressing toward better work conditions for more people. Instead of improving things, it's about petty griping on who is getting a "benefit" you don't have.

+2. DP. There is soooooo much exhausting talk on this thread about how folks should have made better choices. "My DH and I would never accept a job more than X miles from our house." "We would never live in X location." "We always budgeted for X contingency." "We would never do that." "We would never do this." Blah, blah. Well, neither my DH nor I (both private sector) would ever accept a position, or acquiesce, to a job that treats us like corporate slaves and offers no workplace flexibility. If that's the position you are in, clearly you should have made better choices!

Mm, no, but good try. They’re not the ones endlessly whining on the internet about how hysterical they are about RTO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the real world 40 hours is the minimum hours worked. So workers are in the office a lot more than govt employees realize pre-covid.

If I had a Dentist Appointment or Doctors Appointment or Kids activity and I had to leave on time. Not early. I have to ask my boss usually.

Going back to office 40 yours a week is the absolute bare minimun in real worlds.

Places I worked at we often staff it based on a 50 hour week. We could hire 20 percent less workers. We be more profitable, we have less real estate rent, less people on medical plan. And even 50 hours is not a long day. If you eat at your desk and skip lunch it is 8-6pm

And in busy season when i was big four, we usually work 8-8 every day 60 hour weeks.

In summer we worked only 40 hour a week and felt like a vacation none of us knew what to do with all the free time.

When I worked at Citigroup we had a rule unless my dept was working at least 45 hours a week each we could not hire. Makes sense, how are you short staffed if no one is working OT?

Oh look, I used to work for an investment bank too so I'll chime in. In the "real world", you get market based bonuses, RSUs, etc to compensate you for that private sector work. In the Federal government, you're lucky if you get a cost of living adjustment that almost keeps up with inflation. These two are not the same and neither is your humble brag from a loser experience.

I hope you’re in middle school.