Anonymous wrote:NP---My kid was a chair thrower in elem school. He was my 2nd and Yes I knew something wasn't right by about 2. I went to the dev ped who said wait and see. The regular ped had no advice. It wasn't until the end of PreK 3 that the preschool indicated that this was so far above the norm that they would no longer work with him.
Got my kid into PEP and with a high teacher/student ratio and small classes, he did fine. So well in fact that they closed his IEP going into K. At the general K meeting for incoming students in May, I asked what the plan was.....I was told that during the first few months of K, it is all hands on deck. That does not sound like a solid plan to me. I put my kid in private and the smaller classes worked well until 2nd grade.
In 2nd grade, I moved my kid to public, met with the principal, told him what was going on and that I wanted to start the IEP process. He said we needed to wait. Not surprisingly, I got a call within the first week that we needed to start the IEP process. It took me 6 months to get his IEP back in place and that was with me providing an outside evaluation. Had I wanted to use the school psychologist, the timeline would have been longer. In retrospect, I wish I had sent my kid to public K. The IEP would have happened earlier in his school career.
All this is to say---for parents with NT children, be grateful your kid can regulate. As many others have pointed out, many of us are doing all we can to get both our kids and your kids the appropriate education. We want our kids moved to the right environment. Even when the school is working with us, there are timelines everyone has to follow. It is not good for anyone. But to come on DCUM and tell us that we are crappy parents, that our kids deserve to be beaten, that they should be regulated to virtual learning, that our kids do not deserve the same education that your child receives is wrong and infuriating. I truly hope that no one in your family ever has to manage a child with an invisible disability.
To be fair, the parent of the neurodivergent child is telling others that their child deserves to have a chair thrown in his face again and again until his parents can't handle it and divorce. Do you think other kids deserve to be attacked in school as well? They are children too, deserving of an education in a safe environment, they aren't just tools serving as peer models in the classroom.
I agree with you. No one deserves to be in an unsafe environment. Not NT kids, not teachers, not administrators, not the kid with special needs. The issue is with the way the school system handles the bureaucracy and limits the number of seats available in specialized programs. My kid has been in non public and is now in a self contained classroom. In both scenarios, there were between 6-8 kids in his class. Just from this thread alone, I would surmise that there are more than 6-8 kids per grade that need the help. In self contained classes, the class is often the grade. Looking at MCPS, there are 2 locations for HFA students--so lets say they take a total of 16 kids across the county per grade (1-5) or 80 kids in total. There are 3 Bridge MS and HS programs. So again, 24 kids per grade across the county. I'm not familiar with SESES or ESESES so I can't comment on how many kids are in those programs.
For many of these dysregulated kids, the root of the issue is anxiety. A smaller number of bodies in the room creates less chaos, less noise, enables more adult supervision. When a kid with anxiety gets overwhelmed, there is the fight or flight response. Both responses require a large amount of adult intervention. Smaller classes would benefit all kids. But smaller classes cost money.
Why isn't virtual schooling an option then? Reduces anxiety, small class, fewer adults needed, costs less. Seems like a pretty good solution.
If virtual schooling is such a great option, then why did so many parents argue that it wasn't good during the pandemic? What do the kids that don't have stable internet do? How does a teacher keep a child engaged over a screen? How does a parent that has to work leave a child home alone? Yes---I hear you---school is not daycare, parents cannot transfer parenting responsibilities to the schools. But realistically---parents have to work and the child will be left home alone. There will be no one there to make sure that a child is receiving an education. An uneducated child becomes an uneducated adult. It kicks the can down the road. This person will require more social services in the long run.
Because it isn't a good option for all kids, obviously. We're talking about a subset of kids. The kids with extreme anxiety or dysregulation like the PP was mentioning. Other kids do well in full classrooms and don't require lot of adult intervention. But I see that it's more about convenience for the parent vs what is best for the child.
It's not always so black and white. Sure, if the child with SN is an only child in a 2 parent household with a SAHP, then virtual schooling could work. But if the choice is send your kid to school so you can work and house and feed your family, then that's what you're going to do. You're showing the bias in this thread---you take your kids needs into account first--as you should. To you, your child is more important than someone elses child with special needs. As far as your concerned, this is that parents issue and they need to deal with it.
From a parent with multiple children they need to look out for their overall family. If they stop going to work where will they live? How will they eat? Their priority is their family, not yours.
You are doing the same. Your child is more important than the other 20. But the dysregulated prone to outbursts child isn't being served well in public schools. No matter how tolerant or accepting the other children and staff may be. If that was the best place for these kids then your argument would make sense and these kids wouldn't act out so much. It's not working.
I agree with you. I pointed out earlier that specialized classes are restricted in numbers. When FAPE was introduced at the federal level, there was no funding provided for the States to implement it. School systems are doing the best they can with the resources they have while following the laws. It is not working for anyone.
It needs to be fixed so ALL children can receive a free and appropriate education.
But free and appropriate can't always mean a mainstream classroom. Virtual schooling needs to be one of the options until the maturity catches up. Parents may have to make hard choices and put career on the back burner. The government should pay them a stipend to oversee the kids education in the meantime.
Virtual schooling is an option IF the team deems, through the IEP process, that virtual education the appropriate means to meet the child’s needs.
Now you're balking. That means the parents have to agree also. Some parents don't want to deal with this. Work becomes an escape from reality and they'd rather the school do the heavy lifting even if the setting isn't appropriate.
You have a child who can do well either virtual school or homeschooling but choose to send them to public school because it is their right.
Those parents pay taxes like you.
And they actually need that break. You don't. If someone should keep their kids at home, it's you.
A school is not a medical facility. It's not an educator's job to be a therapist or provide a break for parents, nor should a school district shoulder all the financial burden of a child's mental health.
The school is a place to learn. The child throwing chairs and many other children are learning. If yours isn't, move yours to virtual.
It's extremely telling that not one parent of a chair thrower wants to do virtual. Plenty of other kids do virtual, homeschool, and do well. It's perfectly clear parents don't want to be responsible for their own kids. They can't handle their own kids yet expect schools to work magic while they hide at work avoiding the problem.
Anonymous wrote:NP---My kid was a chair thrower in elem school. He was my 2nd and Yes I knew something wasn't right by about 2. I went to the dev ped who said wait and see. The regular ped had no advice. It wasn't until the end of PreK 3 that the preschool indicated that this was so far above the norm that they would no longer work with him.
Got my kid into PEP and with a high teacher/student ratio and small classes, he did fine. So well in fact that they closed his IEP going into K. At the general K meeting for incoming students in May, I asked what the plan was.....I was told that during the first few months of K, it is all hands on deck. That does not sound like a solid plan to me. I put my kid in private and the smaller classes worked well until 2nd grade.
In 2nd grade, I moved my kid to public, met with the principal, told him what was going on and that I wanted to start the IEP process. He said we needed to wait. Not surprisingly, I got a call within the first week that we needed to start the IEP process. It took me 6 months to get his IEP back in place and that was with me providing an outside evaluation. Had I wanted to use the school psychologist, the timeline would have been longer. In retrospect, I wish I had sent my kid to public K. The IEP would have happened earlier in his school career.
All this is to say---for parents with NT children, be grateful your kid can regulate. As many others have pointed out, many of us are doing all we can to get both our kids and your kids the appropriate education. We want our kids moved to the right environment. Even when the school is working with us, there are timelines everyone has to follow. It is not good for anyone. But to come on DCUM and tell us that we are crappy parents, that our kids deserve to be beaten, that they should be regulated to virtual learning, that our kids do not deserve the same education that your child receives is wrong and infuriating. I truly hope that no one in your family ever has to manage a child with an invisible disability.
To be fair, the parent of the neurodivergent child is telling others that their child deserves to have a chair thrown in his face again and again until his parents can't handle it and divorce. Do you think other kids deserve to be attacked in school as well? They are children too, deserving of an education in a safe environment, they aren't just tools serving as peer models in the classroom.
I agree with you. No one deserves to be in an unsafe environment. Not NT kids, not teachers, not administrators, not the kid with special needs. The issue is with the way the school system handles the bureaucracy and limits the number of seats available in specialized programs. My kid has been in non public and is now in a self contained classroom. In both scenarios, there were between 6-8 kids in his class. Just from this thread alone, I would surmise that there are more than 6-8 kids per grade that need the help. In self contained classes, the class is often the grade. Looking at MCPS, there are 2 locations for HFA students--so lets say they take a total of 16 kids across the county per grade (1-5) or 80 kids in total. There are 3 Bridge MS and HS programs. So again, 24 kids per grade across the county. I'm not familiar with SESES or ESESES so I can't comment on how many kids are in those programs.
For many of these dysregulated kids, the root of the issue is anxiety. A smaller number of bodies in the room creates less chaos, less noise, enables more adult supervision. When a kid with anxiety gets overwhelmed, there is the fight or flight response. Both responses require a large amount of adult intervention. Smaller classes would benefit all kids. But smaller classes cost money.
Why isn't virtual schooling an option then? Reduces anxiety, small class, fewer adults needed, costs less. Seems like a pretty good solution.
If virtual schooling is such a great option, then why did so many parents argue that it wasn't good during the pandemic? What do the kids that don't have stable internet do? How does a teacher keep a child engaged over a screen? How does a parent that has to work leave a child home alone? Yes---I hear you---school is not daycare, parents cannot transfer parenting responsibilities to the schools. But realistically---parents have to work and the child will be left home alone. There will be no one there to make sure that a child is receiving an education. An uneducated child becomes an uneducated adult. It kicks the can down the road. This person will require more social services in the long run.
Because it isn't a good option for all kids, obviously. We're talking about a subset of kids. The kids with extreme anxiety or dysregulation like the PP was mentioning. Other kids do well in full classrooms and don't require lot of adult intervention. But I see that it's more about convenience for the parent vs what is best for the child.
It's not always so black and white. Sure, if the child with SN is an only child in a 2 parent household with a SAHP, then virtual schooling could work. But if the choice is send your kid to school so you can work and house and feed your family, then that's what you're going to do. You're showing the bias in this thread---you take your kids needs into account first--as you should. To you, your child is more important than someone elses child with special needs. As far as your concerned, this is that parents issue and they need to deal with it.
From a parent with multiple children they need to look out for their overall family. If they stop going to work where will they live? How will they eat? Their priority is their family, not yours.
You are doing the same. Your child is more important than the other 20. But the dysregulated prone to outbursts child isn't being served well in public schools. No matter how tolerant or accepting the other children and staff may be. If that was the best place for these kids then your argument would make sense and these kids wouldn't act out so much. It's not working.
I agree with you. I pointed out earlier that specialized classes are restricted in numbers. When FAPE was introduced at the federal level, there was no funding provided for the States to implement it. School systems are doing the best they can with the resources they have while following the laws. It is not working for anyone.
It needs to be fixed so ALL children can receive a free and appropriate education.
But free and appropriate can't always mean a mainstream classroom. Virtual schooling needs to be one of the options until the maturity catches up. Parents may have to make hard choices and put career on the back burner. The government should pay them a stipend to oversee the kids education in the meantime.
Virtual schooling is an option IF the team deems, through the IEP process, that virtual education the appropriate means to meet the child’s needs.
Now you're balking. That means the parents have to agree also. Some parents don't want to deal with this. Work becomes an escape from reality and they'd rather the school do the heavy lifting even if the setting isn't appropriate.
You have a child who can do well either virtual school or homeschooling but choose to send them to public school because it is their right.
Those parents pay taxes like you.
And they actually need that break. You don't. If someone should keep their kids at home, it's you.
A school is not a medical facility. It's not an educator's job to be a therapist or provide a break for parents, nor should a school district shoulder all the financial burden of a child's mental health.
The school is a place to learn. The child throwing chairs and many other children are learning. If yours isn't, move yours to virtual.
A school is a place for children to learn to become productive members of society. That is why they were created. If you can’t see that move yours to private. My own kids do just fine. I do, however, want to find a solution that works, not fund one that doesn’t
No, you want to find a solution that works for your children only. That is what a virtual learning option for the other children is.
The solution that works is getting one on one aides for these children in class or a similar setting, not moving them home.
Schools provide lunch, some counseling, some physical activity etc because it is obvious that you don't teach a child in a vacuum. There are several other factors that are equally important. So don't talk about school districts not shouldering burdens. If the burden is fundamental to the learning process the district should shoulder it or seek resources, not send the children home. We are a society. We take care of children, not abandon those with challenging issues to their parents.
If you insist that virtual is not abandoning them to their parents, you and all parents who agree with you can go first. Move your kids to virtual. Problem solved for you.
No. Our kids will stay in school. The violent kids can be enjoyed by their parents at home.
Anonymous wrote:NP---My kid was a chair thrower in elem school. He was my 2nd and Yes I knew something wasn't right by about 2. I went to the dev ped who said wait and see. The regular ped had no advice. It wasn't until the end of PreK 3 that the preschool indicated that this was so far above the norm that they would no longer work with him.
Got my kid into PEP and with a high teacher/student ratio and small classes, he did fine. So well in fact that they closed his IEP going into K. At the general K meeting for incoming students in May, I asked what the plan was.....I was told that during the first few months of K, it is all hands on deck. That does not sound like a solid plan to me. I put my kid in private and the smaller classes worked well until 2nd grade.
In 2nd grade, I moved my kid to public, met with the principal, told him what was going on and that I wanted to start the IEP process. He said we needed to wait. Not surprisingly, I got a call within the first week that we needed to start the IEP process. It took me 6 months to get his IEP back in place and that was with me providing an outside evaluation. Had I wanted to use the school psychologist, the timeline would have been longer. In retrospect, I wish I had sent my kid to public K. The IEP would have happened earlier in his school career.
All this is to say---for parents with NT children, be grateful your kid can regulate. As many others have pointed out, many of us are doing all we can to get both our kids and your kids the appropriate education. We want our kids moved to the right environment. Even when the school is working with us, there are timelines everyone has to follow. It is not good for anyone. But to come on DCUM and tell us that we are crappy parents, that our kids deserve to be beaten, that they should be regulated to virtual learning, that our kids do not deserve the same education that your child receives is wrong and infuriating. I truly hope that no one in your family ever has to manage a child with an invisible disability.
To be fair, the parent of the neurodivergent child is telling others that their child deserves to have a chair thrown in his face again and again until his parents can't handle it and divorce. Do you think other kids deserve to be attacked in school as well? They are children too, deserving of an education in a safe environment, they aren't just tools serving as peer models in the classroom.
I agree with you. No one deserves to be in an unsafe environment. Not NT kids, not teachers, not administrators, not the kid with special needs. The issue is with the way the school system handles the bureaucracy and limits the number of seats available in specialized programs. My kid has been in non public and is now in a self contained classroom. In both scenarios, there were between 6-8 kids in his class. Just from this thread alone, I would surmise that there are more than 6-8 kids per grade that need the help. In self contained classes, the class is often the grade. Looking at MCPS, there are 2 locations for HFA students--so lets say they take a total of 16 kids across the county per grade (1-5) or 80 kids in total. There are 3 Bridge MS and HS programs. So again, 24 kids per grade across the county. I'm not familiar with SESES or ESESES so I can't comment on how many kids are in those programs.
For many of these dysregulated kids, the root of the issue is anxiety. A smaller number of bodies in the room creates less chaos, less noise, enables more adult supervision. When a kid with anxiety gets overwhelmed, there is the fight or flight response. Both responses require a large amount of adult intervention. Smaller classes would benefit all kids. But smaller classes cost money.
Why isn't virtual schooling an option then? Reduces anxiety, small class, fewer adults needed, costs less. Seems like a pretty good solution.
If virtual schooling is such a great option, then why did so many parents argue that it wasn't good during the pandemic? What do the kids that don't have stable internet do? How does a teacher keep a child engaged over a screen? How does a parent that has to work leave a child home alone? Yes---I hear you---school is not daycare, parents cannot transfer parenting responsibilities to the schools. But realistically---parents have to work and the child will be left home alone. There will be no one there to make sure that a child is receiving an education. An uneducated child becomes an uneducated adult. It kicks the can down the road. This person will require more social services in the long run.
Because it isn't a good option for all kids, obviously. We're talking about a subset of kids. The kids with extreme anxiety or dysregulation like the PP was mentioning. Other kids do well in full classrooms and don't require lot of adult intervention. But I see that it's more about convenience for the parent vs what is best for the child.
It's not always so black and white. Sure, if the child with SN is an only child in a 2 parent household with a SAHP, then virtual schooling could work. But if the choice is send your kid to school so you can work and house and feed your family, then that's what you're going to do. You're showing the bias in this thread---you take your kids needs into account first--as you should. To you, your child is more important than someone elses child with special needs. As far as your concerned, this is that parents issue and they need to deal with it.
From a parent with multiple children they need to look out for their overall family. If they stop going to work where will they live? How will they eat? Their priority is their family, not yours.
You are doing the same. Your child is more important than the other 20. But the dysregulated prone to outbursts child isn't being served well in public schools. No matter how tolerant or accepting the other children and staff may be. If that was the best place for these kids then your argument would make sense and these kids wouldn't act out so much. It's not working.
I agree with you. I pointed out earlier that specialized classes are restricted in numbers. When FAPE was introduced at the federal level, there was no funding provided for the States to implement it. School systems are doing the best they can with the resources they have while following the laws. It is not working for anyone.
It needs to be fixed so ALL children can receive a free and appropriate education.
But free and appropriate can't always mean a mainstream classroom. Virtual schooling needs to be one of the options until the maturity catches up. Parents may have to make hard choices and put career on the back burner. The government should pay them a stipend to oversee the kids education in the meantime.
Virtual schooling is an option IF the team deems, through the IEP process, that virtual education the appropriate means to meet the child’s needs.
Now you're balking. That means the parents have to agree also. Some parents don't want to deal with this. Work becomes an escape from reality and they'd rather the school do the heavy lifting even if the setting isn't appropriate.
You have a child who can do well either virtual school or homeschooling but choose to send them to public school because it is their right.
Those parents pay taxes like you.
And they actually need that break. You don't. If someone should keep their kids at home, it's you.
A school is not a medical facility. It's not an educator's job to be a therapist or provide a break for parents, nor should a school district shoulder all the financial burden of a child's mental health.
The school is a place to learn. The child throwing chairs and many other children are learning. If yours isn't, move yours to virtual.
A school is a place for children to learn to become productive members of society. That is why they were created. If you can’t see that move yours to private. My own kids do just fine. I do, however, want to find a solution that works, not fund one that doesn’t
No, you want to find a solution that works for your children only. That is what a virtual learning option for the other children is.
The solution that works is getting one on one aides for these children in class or a similar setting, not moving them home.
Schools provide lunch, some counseling, some physical activity etc because it is obvious that you don't teach a child in a vacuum. There are several other factors that are equally important. So don't talk about school districts not shouldering burdens. If the burden is fundamental to the learning process the district should shoulder it or seek resources, not send the children home. We are a society. We take care of children, not abandon those with challenging issues to their parents.
If you insist that virtual is not abandoning them to their parents, you and all parents who agree with you can go first. Move your kids to virtual. Problem solved for you.
But, a previous poster pointed out all the ways the school itself is the trigger. It's too big, too chaotic, too many people, too unpredictable. A traditional school is not the right place for every child. You can't fit square pegs into round holes. You just don't want to consider a virtual option.
It looks like it's too chaotic and unpredictable for the " normal" children....virtual would be good for them.
Chair throwing and violence are too chaotic and unpredictable for ADULTS, let alone other children.
Anonymous wrote:^ and the jerks I am referring to are the parents trying to insist that the children throwing chairs should stay home.
Why shouldn't they? They should be suspended for a certain amount of time to get behavior under control before given another chance.
So what if the parents can't get the behavior under control? Should these kids not get educated?
Violent kids have bigger issues and perhaps should enter full time therapy so they can be addressed properly instead of being ignored in school.
Cool. Want to tell us where to find “full time therapy” and tell me which health insurance plan pays for it? Cause I’m over here trying to find an in-network child psychologist for my kid with availability, and no dice. Surely you have a solution?
You pay for it.
I can’t afford it. The vast majority of people can’t. Full time therapy (like a partial in patient program) can be a hundred thousand dollars private pay, if you can even get a spot. If your family income is that of an average American, say $90k, there is simply no way to make it work. None.
What makes you think the average tax payer can afford to fund it? Also why should they fund your medical bills and not those of parents of children with Cystic Fibrosis or any other hardship?
Are you asking why health insurance should cover health care? Perhaps you’d like to go without yourself? You don’t need that cancer medicine, do you? No chemo for you! Good parents don’t get cancer, after all. They stay healthy so the normal tax payer isn’t inconvenienced!
No, I am telling you that while health insurance covers much medical costs, people with chronic or terminal illness are shouldering tens of thousands of medical costs per year. You are not more deserving than them to have your child’s medical expenses passed on to the taxpayer.
And who are you to tell her that?
In this society, we have determined that she is more deserving. If you don't like it, you can leave.
"We" have not decided anything. That dumb law was passed in 2004 and its going to be death of public education as we know it. A generation from now, public schools will just be poor kids and chair throwers because any one who could get out, did. Its shameful.
Oh and political support for public schools will vanish because so few people will actually be using the public schools.
Okay...
Until then, the parents who don't want some children in school can take their own children out.
No.It is not happening no matter how many times you type it. No.
Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I have a special needs kid like this
They offered to place him in a Nonverbal autistic class because of his intense behaviors
Or a regular class with no support. My son is at grade level academically. In other to get him the 1:1 support he needs, he needs to fail out of the regular class.
Blame the administration for making this insane system.
And yes, you should press charges if they do something life threatening. The school will be forced to deal with it.
Not sure what district you are in, but FCPS has an emotional disabilities program with self-contained classes for this type of child. It's pretty hard to get into though, and also not necessarily a good place to be. But they have it.
These posts just make it clear the parents of normal kids need to advocate for them. We can be sure the parents of the chair throwers will be advocating for their kids to stay in the class room no matter how bad their behavior is. Like one of the pps said, less empathy is needed here not more.
I’ve never heard of a parent fighting for a LESS restrictive placement. Everyone wants more services, not less. The problem comes in when the schools aren’t forthcoming about the options. Because most parents have no idea what even to ask for or how to go about asking for it in an effective manner. And the schools LOVE to fight about this stuff and will absolutely hire outside counsel to not have to pay to send a kid to an outside placement for kids with behavioral difficulties. It’s extremely daunting to go up against a large school district especially when you’re pretty sure you’re not going to win and the end outcome is going to be you wasted time and $$$ only for them to place your kid right back at the neighborhood school.
Some do, particularly for more profound disabilities. But setting aside private placement, given that’s nearly impossible to get, most parents that I know with kids learning at grade level want their kids to stay in the home school. They don’t want a more restrictive placement— they want more supports in the general education classroom.
But the schools also fight that. Sometimes the schools and principals don’t want to fight for the money. And there are some, like the disgraced former MCPS principal that’s been bashing kids with disabilities in these threads, that simply don’t want to deal with these kids and try to inappropriately ship them off to self-contained programs.
In my child's case, an aide would be much much cheaper than private placement... and we know it works.
Child now has an aide and is totally fine. You don't want to know how hard it is to get there.
Of course it is hard, and it’s not because administrators don’t support teachers or don’t want to fight for funding. There is no funding!!! The request for Special ED has exploded. Most often they have to cut programs or teachers to make room for additional Special Ed. Your child does not need an accommodation, they need a whole salaried employee dedicated to them.
No they do not. They need access to a classroom for kids like them. Why is there like one of these in each district? There needs to be at least one - per school!!
Because parents, especially in wealthy districts, want their kids in mainstream classrooms with an IEP and aid.
In Boston there is uproar that Special Ed kids are being sent in Special Ed classes or school. The SJW are demanding mainstream integration.
+1. It’s even written into many IEP’s that these kids require grade level peers. That is not my child’s responsibility.
So keep yours in virtual. No one is stopping you.
My child is not violent and doesn’t disrupt class.
These are not requirements for public school attendance.
But feel free to start your own school with these requirements.
Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I have a special needs kid like this
They offered to place him in a Nonverbal autistic class because of his intense behaviors
Or a regular class with no support. My son is at grade level academically. In other to get him the 1:1 support he needs, he needs to fail out of the regular class.
Blame the administration for making this insane system.
And yes, you should press charges if they do something life threatening. The school will be forced to deal with it.
Not sure what district you are in, but FCPS has an emotional disabilities program with self-contained classes for this type of child. It's pretty hard to get into though, and also not necessarily a good place to be. But they have it.
These posts just make it clear the parents of normal kids need to advocate for them. We can be sure the parents of the chair throwers will be advocating for their kids to stay in the class room no matter how bad their behavior is. Like one of the pps said, less empathy is needed here not more.
I’ve never heard of a parent fighting for a LESS restrictive placement. Everyone wants more services, not less. The problem comes in when the schools aren’t forthcoming about the options. Because most parents have no idea what even to ask for or how to go about asking for it in an effective manner. And the schools LOVE to fight about this stuff and will absolutely hire outside counsel to not have to pay to send a kid to an outside placement for kids with behavioral difficulties. It’s extremely daunting to go up against a large school district especially when you’re pretty sure you’re not going to win and the end outcome is going to be you wasted time and $$$ only for them to place your kid right back at the neighborhood school.
Some do, particularly for more profound disabilities. But setting aside private placement, given that’s nearly impossible to get, most parents that I know with kids learning at grade level want their kids to stay in the home school. They don’t want a more restrictive placement— they want more supports in the general education classroom.
But the schools also fight that. Sometimes the schools and principals don’t want to fight for the money. And there are some, like the disgraced former MCPS principal that’s been bashing kids with disabilities in these threads, that simply don’t want to deal with these kids and try to inappropriately ship them off to self-contained programs.
In my child's case, an aide would be much much cheaper than private placement... and we know it works.
Child now has an aide and is totally fine. You don't want to know how hard it is to get there.
Of course it is hard, and it’s not because administrators don’t support teachers or don’t want to fight for funding. There is no funding!!! The request for Special ED has exploded. Most often they have to cut programs or teachers to make room for additional Special Ed. Your child does not need an accommodation, they need a whole salaried employee dedicated to them.
No they do not. They need access to a classroom for kids like them. Why is there like one of these in each district? There needs to be at least one - per school!!
Because parents, especially in wealthy districts, want their kids in mainstream classrooms with an IEP and aid.
In Boston there is uproar that Special Ed kids are being sent in Special Ed classes or school. The SJW are demanding mainstream integration.
+1. It’s even written into many IEP’s that these kids require grade level peers. That is not my child’s responsibility.
So keep yours in virtual. No one is stopping you.
My child is not violent and doesn’t disrupt class.
These are not requirements for public school attendance.
But feel free to start your own school with these requirements.
M
Violence and disruption have just become the norm in public school.
Anonymous wrote:Maybe everyone expects too much from free school, and that is the problem. By including the behaviorally challenged and violent kids, this is the result.
I'm not advocating for a return to asylums and prison schools, but there has to be a middle ground for these kids. It must be cheaper to have a self contained classroom than for each kid to have a 1:1 aide
Comparing the cost of self-contained programs to gen-ed plus an aide, you'd be wrong.
Anonymous wrote:My kid got home from first grade today and started telling me there is a kid in his class who is mean to other kids and get SO MAD. Today he got SO MAD he threw a chair. So, what is my recourse here?
Nothing because of Sped laws in this country. Move to Europe instead?
No thanks. We’ll stay here and work to change the ridiculous laws.
Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.
Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.
You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.
What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.
+1
Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.
Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.
Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.
You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.
What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.
+1
Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.
Do you know many SPED parents? I have a SN child (non-violent) and have gotten to know a number of parents over the years with kids with issues like absconding from the classroom, violent outbursts, meltdowns, etc. and know multiple families who have fought for special placements for their kids. It’s a battle. It’s frustrating and heartbreaking.
I know 2 families who finally after YEARS got their kids placed in a private school like a PP mentioned. And 2 others who ended up leaving public and footing the bill for a private school on their own (which they’ve admitted they are lucky they can do). But not every family can afford this.
The only parents I know who don’t want special SPED rooms are those whose kids can absolutely be in a mainstream classroom. We shouldn’t be sending kids out of the regular classroom because of minor issues like stimming or difficulty paying attention. Also, SN are so varied that just dumping all the kids with and IEP in a class together makes no sense. One of my kids has speech issues … would you relegate him to a SPED classroom?
Why is there such resistance to pay for private school on their own? Why is the school on the hook for it? Plenty of people choose private schools over public and there's no expectation that someone else foot the bill. Kids only get one shot at school why waste time dithering if you can afford it but are too cheap to pay for the best school your child needs? It's messed up.
Most people simply can’t afford a private special needs school. It’s not cheap. Fairfax County has, what, 30% FARMS students? Which is on the low side for the big school systems around here, MCPS, PGCPS, and Alexandria City have more. And then there’s the matter of a lot of the private SN schools don’t actually accept kids with serious behavioral challenges in terms of violent behavior. They’re more geared toward kids with learning disabilities, mild ID, and mild-moderate ASD. Sometimes there’s not a ready solution even if you have money to throw at a problem.
OK, but PP's example was a family or two that could afford it. But still wanted to fight the schools. What is with this stubborn resistance at the expense of their kids? They sound like selfish cheap a-holes who aren't really looking out for the child's best interests.
Being able to “afford” something is relative. These are not very wealthy big law families. I’m sure paying this tuition is having ripple effects on their savings, ability to support other children, etc. It seems natural families would want to see what assistance they can get before committing to hundreds of thousands of dollars over the long term to paying for private. That is a humongous sum of money for people.
So what? Lots of people can and do prioritize private school education. Why not these families?
Why not the other families in class?
The whole rest of the class isn’t going to go private so the chair throwers can have public school. So sorry.
Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.
LRE is required by IDEA. It is federal law.
LRE does not equal mainstream classroom placement.
Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.
Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.
You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.
What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.
+1
Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.
Do you know many SPED parents? I have a SN child (non-violent) and have gotten to know a number of parents over the years with kids with issues like absconding from the classroom, violent outbursts, meltdowns, etc. and know multiple families who have fought for special placements for their kids. It’s a battle. It’s frustrating and heartbreaking.
I know 2 families who finally after YEARS got their kids placed in a private school like a PP mentioned. And 2 others who ended up leaving public and footing the bill for a private school on their own (which they’ve admitted they are lucky they can do). But not every family can afford this.
The only parents I know who don’t want special SPED rooms are those whose kids can absolutely be in a mainstream classroom. We shouldn’t be sending kids out of the regular classroom because of minor issues like stimming or difficulty paying attention. Also, SN are so varied that just dumping all the kids with and IEP in a class together makes no sense. One of my kids has speech issues … would you relegate him to a SPED classroom?
Why is there such resistance to pay for private school on their own? Why is the school on the hook for it? Plenty of people choose private schools over public and there's no expectation that someone else foot the bill. Kids only get one shot at school why waste time dithering if you can afford it but are too cheap to pay for the best school your child needs? It's messed up.
You obviously have no idea how much SPED-focused schools cost, and likely grew up in relative wealth. The vast majority of people could never dream of paying for these schools.
Isn’t is crazy that people having kids couldn’t even afford to pay for their school unless it is free.
No! It's not crazy! It's how our society has been set up for over 100 years!
.
Free public schools doesn’t work for many kids, and parents shouldn’t rely on it.
But the law says otherwise. Every single kid, including chair throwers, are entitled to a free and appropriate public education.
Anonymous wrote:People can just sue the county and then get the county to pay for their private school for their kid who isn’t doing
well being mainstreamed. This is happening — even for people who can afford the private on their own. The system is so broken — for all kids!
What a hollow victory to spend years fighting the school system while a kid languishes in a broken system. You don't get a do over once those years are lost.
way to miss the point. people sue because they *cannot afford or even access* the SN school. save your ire for the schools that don’t provide the proper services and placements.
Oh I guess you missed this part: even for people who can afford the private on their own Those people are fools.
It’s a tiny, tiny percentage that can afford it. And as you have been told repeatedly- some of these schools don’t even take private pay. Even if they do, you still have to apply, and they may mot take your kid. and in many places the SN schools don’t even exist.
I know all you want is for SN kids to go away, but the problem is public schools failing to follow the law.
Not wanting my child in a class with a violent student =/= wanting SN kids to go away.
Blaming the parents, saying people who can’t afford 80k/year private schooling, arguing that public schools shouldn’t even exist, etc. sends a pretty clear message that you just want these kids gone and you don’t care where they go.
So, you are okay with violent children endangering others? In fact, you appear to be advocating for it. You think that other parents should just happily allow it because you won't take responsibility for your child's actions?
Omg talking to posters like you is like trying to get through to a brick wall.
Of course I’m not okay with it. And I don’t have a child throwing chairs so no, I don’t have any responsibility to take for this.
But I’m capable of carrying two thoughts in my head. I can both believe that the status quo isn’t working and *also* think we need to better serve these violent children without the need to blame the parents.
Why are you unable to manage complex thinking?
NP here, and the idea that parents are not responsible for the minors' actions is unreasonable.
I hope you have typically developing kids, or your kids will be abused by you.
I doubt he’d be able to stay around long enough to abuse them. He’d just abandon them, just as he’s proposing that schools and society do.
Parents need to know their kids and not put them in unsafe situations. It traumatizes both the kids and their classmates. Set them up to succeed, get them therapy, and do the right thing. In-person public school is a bad decision for many kids with behavior issues.
Even when it is a “bad decision,” it may be the best or only option. In many cases these are kids the school is capable of handling— the school may just not be willing to provide the necessary supports. And in cases where the school legitimately can’t handle them, the parents may be struggling to get the school to agree to an alternative placement.
Or, equally likely, the parents are actively fighting the school and refusing any sort of alternative placement, because they are dead set on the idea that their child would be fine if only everyone catered to them.
No, that’s not equally likely. The school district does not want to send kids to self-contained programs, partly because of LRE, but mostly because of cost and resources. And I don’t know anyone that’s fought a placement to a more supportive environment after attempts to bring in supports to the general education environment have failed. But many, many parents of kids with special needs can describe how hard it is to get the schools to provide those supports in the first place.
It’s still not equally likely, but there are some parents in denial about the situation and refuse assessments and special education services. And that’s a horrible situation for all the kids involved.
This routinely happens in top school districts. The parents, often well educated white collar workers, are in denial about the severity of their child’s condition. They don’t like the stigma, they don’t want their kids to be segregated, they are thinking about college admissions. Many believe with therapy and age they will “grow out of it”. It is mind boggling.
Liar. I’ve literally never heard of this. Read the SN board. It’s the opposite- parents fighting to get kids into Bridge or the high functioning Autism programs in MoCo.
Forum Index
»
Elementary School-Aged Kids
![[Post New]](/jforum/templates/default/images/icon_minipost_new.gif){kind=icon}