Sophie Turner and Joe Jonas headed to divorce

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There was speculation about what Joe heard on the Ring camera. An insider said he heard Sophia trashing him, and that was the final straw.

When you have two kids this seems like a really juvenile excuse to ask for a divorce. You go to counseling like a grown up and try to work it out first. He is really earning that reputation for be an ^sshat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She is young and wild and he is older and stable. The kids need both parents but her drama with international kipnapping charge is not rational or helpful. I think the kids should be back and forth to US and England but primary place US because this is where they were born and the parents were married and UK is just an easy place for mom now that she has bored of being married. She should have considered this before she married a US citizen and solely lived here for years.

They were married in France. He kept their passports and refused to let them return to their mom. That is kidnapping

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was speculation about what Joe heard on the Ring camera. An insider said he heard Sophia trashing him, and that was the final straw.

Yeah, I don’t blame her.

He thinks he’s Justin Timberlake and it’s the 1990’s. The way he tried to paint Sophie as a cheater/partier/bad mom in the most passive aggressive way was super gross. He didn’t even have the balls to do it directly, but hid behind “sources” and leaks.

I can't imagine how Sophie felt hearing about that stuff, especially after having put her career on pause while the girls were babies. She is so young, but has always clearly given 110% as a mom -- at some unknowable cost to her own career. I would be heartbroken and furious if the father of my children cast aspersions on me like that. Especially considering that Joe did not pause his career during that time: Joe filmed a movie in March 2021, he was writing and recording music solo and with the Jonas Brothers and DNCE throughout 2020 to present, the Jonas Brothers did a 44-show tour in 2021, they did a (brief) residency in Vegas in 2022, the Jonas Brothers recorded The Album in 2022, and in 2023 did a (brief) Broadway residency and planned and prepared for the tour that began in August. He actually has more credits on his IMDB page since the birth of their eldest than Sophie does -- and while not all the items are perfect 1:1 comparisons, it is illustrative.

Which is all fine; they are both entitled to do whatever work-wise that they think works best for their family, and he deserves no more opprobrium than Sophie would have if she had not taken a pause. But the disparity has to make it extra galling for her to hear planted items about her being a party girl and absent mother.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She is young and wild and he is older and stable. The kids need both parents but her drama with international kipnapping charge is not rational or helpful. I think the kids should be back and forth to US and England but primary place US because this is where they were born and the parents were married and UK is just an easy place for mom now that she has bored of being married. She should have considered this before she married a US citizen and solely lived here for years.

They were married in France. He kept their passports and refused to let them return to their mom. That is kidnapping

I believe they were legally married in Las Vegas and celebrated the wedding in France shortly thereafter.

And just to be clear, he gave the girls to Sophie, he just wouldn't let Sophie leave New York for England with them (which she says had been the agreed plan and is the basis for her unlawful retention claims).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She is young and wild and he is older and stable. The kids need both parents but her drama with international kipnapping charge is not rational or helpful. I think the kids should be back and forth to US and England but primary place US because this is where they were born and the parents were married and UK is just an easy place for mom now that she has bored of being married. She should have considered this before she married a US citizen and solely lived here for years.

They were married in France. He kept their passports and refused to let them return to their mom. That is kidnapping

You’re being intentionally obtuse. They married in Vegas first. And the father didn’t keep them from their mother- he filed for divorce which, by court order, kept her from taking them back to England to establish residence there, at least until a temporary custody arrangement is established. She was welcome to be with them in the us and has been. The reality is that it’s a super messy situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is entirely speculative, but I wonder if there are tensions between them on the privacy of the children. They've both talked about the importance of privacy, but I've always had the feeling that the level of privacy was really driven by Sophie. Certainly Joe and Sophie's children are kept more private than the children of Kevin and Nick, and I wonder if Joe wouldn't prefer to loosen the reins a bit. The choice of home in England certainly suggests priority being given to allowing the girls to grow up in a more "normal" and private way. But even if they are on the same page about wanting privacy in theory, anyone can tell that the girls' privacy will be easier to protect in England, and that is likely at least part of why Sophie is willing to go to the mattresses on this.

I agree with you completely.

I think it’s telling that within 24 hours of filing for divorce, Joe Jonas scheduled a paparazzi shoot with his kids. That was a clear F U to Sophie.

I hope she gets custody. She’s the only one trying to protect the kids. Jonas treats them like props.

She’s been seen with them plenty over the past week or so playing the down to earth mom in sweatpants. She’s not exactly hiding and is very much trying to show that she is an involved parent (and argue that hence the kids should be with her in the UK)

Something that is skewing things now is that this has become such a big story that it's reasonable to think they both might be genuinely getting papped (versus calling in some paps for PR).

I saw someone earlier in the thread say that Backgrid seemed to historically have been their agency of choice for what appeared to be planned PR paparazzi shots (and I believe was the agency that released the first photos of each of them with the kids following the divorce filing -- except that I think the shot of them eating together with the girls was a random passerby). For what it's worth, the photos of Sophie and the girls I've been seeing lately have come from other agencies, whereas the photos of Joe with the girls yesterday were Backgrid again. Obviously I don't know for sure that he called them in (and that she didn't call in the others) -- but it's a data point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She is young and wild and he is older and stable. The kids need both parents but her drama with international kipnapping charge is not rational or helpful. I think the kids should be back and forth to US and England but primary place US because this is where they were born and the parents were married and UK is just an easy place for mom now that she has bored of being married. She should have considered this before she married a US citizen and solely lived here for years.

They were married in France. He kept their passports and refused to let them return to their mom. That is kidnapping

You’re being intentionally obtuse. They married in Vegas first. And the father didn’t keep them from their mother- he filed for divorce which, by court order, kept her from taking them back to England to establish residence there, at least until a temporary custody arrangement is established. She was welcome to be with them in the us and has been. The reality is that it’s a super messy situation.

Do you realize how absurd that is? The mother is English. They had a home in the UK. They were looking at schools in the UK. His filing should not prevent them from traveling to the UK.

[Anonymous]

The Ring camera footage is a red herring. He obviously filed when she was busy working out of the country to blind side her and he has been trying to debase her since then. Her custody filing very clearly shows an imminent family move to the UK. His timing of his divorce filing looks like an attempt to disrupt the timing of the move. And although she is not contesting the divorce, he picked a time when she was busy filming abroad, rather than jointly picking time and venue as many do.

The paps are stationed outside of Taylor's NYC townhouse so that's why Sophie got papped. No one is following Joe around; he is calling them himself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She is young and wild and he is older and stable. The kids need both parents but her drama with international kipnapping charge is not rational or helpful. I think the kids should be back and forth to US and England but primary place US because this is where they were born and the parents were married and UK is just an easy place for mom now that she has bored of being married. She should have considered this before she married a US citizen and solely lived here for years.

They were married in France. He kept their passports and refused to let them return to their mom. That is kidnapping

You’re being intentionally obtuse. They married in Vegas first. And the father didn’t keep them from their mother- he filed for divorce which, by court order, kept her from taking them back to England to establish residence there, at least until a temporary custody arrangement is established. She was welcome to be with them in the us and has been. The reality is that it’s a super messy situation.

I've been really interested to see the Florida court order that Jonas referenced in his statement after Sophie filed; I don't think you can download documents from the docket in Florida, and I haven't seen anyone publish it. He says the order was served on her the day after his filing, so whatever he is referencing is clearly something that basically automatically happened upon filing (which assumes that the children are based on Florida).

One thing I've also seen is that news headlines (even from sources you'd consider more reputable, as opposed to something like Us Weekly) can be very misleading. For example, I saw plenty of headlines trumpeting that they were ordered to keep the kids in New York, when what actually happened is that Joe and Sophie reached an agreement to keep the kids in New York and asked the court to enter a consent order.

What I find interesting is that what Joe's statement actually said was that "the Florida Court has already entered an order that restricts both parents from relocating the children." It is interesting that Joe didn't even assert that the Florida order he is talking about says that the kids have to, for example, stay in Florida (indeed, the kids weren't even in Florida when he filed), or stay in the United States, or not leave the country. All his statement said was that the order "restricts both parents from relocating the children." "Relocation" is actually a defined term in Florida law that means "a change in the location of the principal residence of a parent or other person." If all the Florida order said was that neither parent could "relocate" the children, I don't think it would actually violate the order for Sophie to take them back home to England.

(You almost have to assume this is right, really, because I doubt Sophie's lawyers would be advising her to do anything that would clearly violate a court order, especially because violating orders like that in a parental alienation kind of way tends to have consequences.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Ring camera footage is a red herring. He obviously filed when she was busy working out of the country to blind side her and he has been trying to debase her since then. Her custody filing very clearly shows an imminent family move to the UK. His timing of his divorce filing looks like an attempt to disrupt the timing of the move. And although she is not contesting the divorce, he picked a time when she was busy filming abroad, rather than jointly picking time and venue as many do.

The paps are stationed outside of Taylor's NYC townhouse so that's why Sophie got papped. No one is following Joe around; he is calling them himself.

The hotel they were staying in before moving to Taylor's townhouse was also stated in Sophie's filing, so easy enough to station photogs outside.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She is young and wild and he is older and stable. The kids need both parents but her drama with international kipnapping charge is not rational or helpful. I think the kids should be back and forth to US and England but primary place US because this is where they were born and the parents were married and UK is just an easy place for mom now that she has bored of being married. She should have considered this before she married a US citizen and solely lived here for years.

They were married in France. He kept their passports and refused to let them return to their mom. That is kidnapping

You’re being intentionally obtuse. They married in Vegas first. And the father didn’t keep them from their mother- he filed for divorce which, by court order, kept her from taking them back to England to establish residence there, at least until a temporary custody arrangement is established. She was welcome to be with them in the us and has been. The reality is that it’s a super messy situation.

Do you realize how absurd that is? The mother is English. They had a home in the UK. They were looking at schools in the UK. His filing should not prevent them from traveling to the UK.

Okay, and their father is American. They lived in the US for the children’s entire lives minus 2-3 months between mid April and July.

Looking at schools and buying homes is meaningless when you’re a celebrity and live a nomadic lifestyle. What’s material is how long they stay there. Which in this case, barely happened. Post separation, both parents have an equal opportunity to determine their children’s primary residence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is entirely speculative, but I wonder if there are tensions between them on the privacy of the children. They've both talked about the importance of privacy, but I've always had the feeling that the level of privacy was really driven by Sophie. Certainly Joe and Sophie's children are kept more private than the children of Kevin and Nick, and I wonder if Joe wouldn't prefer to loosen the reins a bit. The choice of home in England certainly suggests priority being given to allowing the girls to grow up in a more "normal" and private way. But even if they are on the same page about wanting privacy in theory, anyone can tell that the girls' privacy will be easier to protect in England, and that is likely at least part of why Sophie is willing to go to the mattresses on this.

I agree with you completely.

I think it’s telling that within 24 hours of filing for divorce, Joe Jonas scheduled a paparazzi shoot with his kids. That was a clear F U to Sophie.

I hope she gets custody. She’s the only one trying to protect the kids. Jonas treats them like props.

Another factor in it is what I suspect are their very different experiences of fame. Sophie and Joe each became quite famous quite young, but Joe came up a bit earlier, and I think there were pretty substantial changes in terms of social media and 24/7 celebrity even in the six or so years that separated their debuts. The nature of their fame was different. He blew up as part of a Disney boy band; I'm sure they faced some derision as bubblegum pop and whatever, but it seems very different from what Sophie faced blowing up as an actress that people perhaps had trouble separating from her character. I don't want to discount challenges Joe faced -- obviously he and his brothers had the weird purity ring stuff and I'm guessing pretty grueling schedules and who knows what else -- but he was also the frontman of the band and was always considered one of the stars along with Nick (versus Kevin, who seems to have a pretty good sense of humor about everything, but which surely must have been pretty hard at times). Sophie, on the other hand, was (with the other kids) a newcomer in an ensemble that included many well-known and well-respected actors, and her character was reviled basically throughout the series by a not-insignificant number of people. And on top of all of this, frankly, we all know how famous women are treated versus famous men (and that Sophie struggled with an eating disorder for a long time, which men are certainly not immune from, but which is easy to link to the type of scrutiny/commentary she got as a famous woman). Notably, Sophie and Joe's children are both girls.

All to say, I can see why raising the girls in as normal and private a way as possible might seem like almost a matter of survival for Sophie, and I completely understand why she would have wanted to move to England to begin with and why she will fight to keep them there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She is young and wild and he is older and stable. The kids need both parents but her drama with international kipnapping charge is not rational or helpful. I think the kids should be back and forth to US and England but primary place US because this is where they were born and the parents were married and UK is just an easy place for mom now that she has bored of being married. She should have considered this before she married a US citizen and solely lived here for years.

Hi Denise,
Sorry you're dragging the mother of your grandchildren through the mud. No wonder your son is such an a$$hole. Do better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Ring camera footage is a red herring. He obviously filed when she was busy working out of the country to blind side her and he has been trying to debase her since then. Her custody filing very clearly shows an imminent family move to the UK. His timing of his divorce filing looks like an attempt to disrupt the timing of the move. And although she is not contesting the divorce, he picked a time when she was busy filming abroad, rather than jointly picking time and venue as many do.

The paps are stationed outside of Taylor's NYC townhouse so that's why Sophie got papped. No one is following Joe around; he is calling them himself.

I think he filed when he did because the kids were about to travel to the UK for a week, and he was probably worried that Sophie would file there, and he'd have a similar struggle to get the kids back into the US as she's facing to get them to the UK.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She is young and wild and he is older and stable. The kids need both parents but her drama with international kipnapping charge is not rational or helpful. I think the kids should be back and forth to US and England but primary place US because this is where they were born and the parents were married and UK is just an easy place for mom now that she has bored of being married. She should have considered this before she married a US citizen and solely lived here for years.

They were married in France. He kept their passports and refused to let them return to their mom. That is kidnapping

You’re being intentionally obtuse. They married in Vegas first. And the father didn’t keep them from their mother- he filed for divorce which, by court order, kept her from taking them back to England to establish residence there, at least until a temporary custody arrangement is established. She was welcome to be with them in the us and has been. The reality is that it’s a super messy situation.

Do you realize how absurd that is? The mother is English. They had a home in the UK. They were looking at schools in the UK. His filing should not prevent them from traveling to the UK.

Okay, and their father is American. They lived in the US for the children’s entire lives minus 2-3 months between mid April and July.

Looking at schools and buying homes is meaningless when you’re a celebrity and live a nomadic lifestyle. What’s material is how long they stay there. Which in this case, barely happened. Post separation, both parents have an equal opportunity to determine their children’s primary residence.

That's not true. You're not normally allowed to divorce and uproot your children to wherever you want their primary residence to be now that you are free to choose on your own. I don't love living in DC, but if I divorced my husband I couldn't just say, me and the kids are going to live in Georgia now. No court would allow it absent my husband's agreement (assuming, I guess, a baseline level of shared responsibility for the children between us).

Just as a practical matter, it can't be that "post separation, both parents have an equal opportunity to determine their children’s primary residence." Because if they truly have an equal opportunity to determine it, and they disagree, how could that be worked out? No court would say my kids have to spend 50% of their time in DC and 50% of their time in Georgia, and we can just figure out home schooling or whatever. You do sometimes see school year in one place vs. breaks and summers in the other, but clearly the school year is the primary residence in that case.

I'm also not sure if you really believe that "post separation, both parents have an equal opportunity to determine their children’s primary residence," because I'm not sure if you are one of the people saying it should be 50/50 UK/US or if what you really think is that they should be primarily US-based (which would not be what Sophie chooses with her "equal opportunity").

I get that you think the move to England earlier this year should be discounted because the girls spent most of their lives before that in the U.S. To my mind (especially considering the girls' very young ages), they moved and that's where "home" is now, and Joe shouldn't get to displace them again just because he regrets the move or it's inconvenient now that he is divorcing their mother.