New VA trans policies for schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not to mention the potential medical intervention that may come with gender exploration. Different than being gay and you should not confuse the two.

We are discussing schools. Not medical interventions.

“Outing” kids against their will would be traumatizing for both transgender and for gay kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just nuts. So much for small government republicans huh.

This is indeed the biggest irony of it all.

A government so small it fits into a vagina.

Word.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I posted earlier as the parent of a trans child but could not bring myself to engage further after this thread truly devolved into meanness and pettiness. I am chiming back in to point you to the story and picture in the post today of a former Republican congresswoman and her trans son. Those of you who insist that this trans man as he currently presents should use the women's room, what would you do if you saw him in there? I can guarantee your first thought would not be that this bearded person who presents as fully male must be a biological woman who totally belongs in the women's room. (I have no idea what his physical situation is obviously, but at least for my son if you pulled down his pants you would still think male not female). Those who support bathroom rules, what do you think about this person in the ladies locker room?

I personally don’t support Youngkin’s bathroom guidelines. However believe that children shouldn’t be socially transitioned by a school without the permission of their parents.

The person transitioning is the child. The school doesn't "transition" anyone. They may support a child by using their preferred pronouns and names, but they aren't "doing" anything.

It would be devastating for some kids if schools were forced to "out" them to their parents. Fortunately, this isn't enforceable by Youngkin.

They may not even be transitioning. They may be trying some thing on to see if it fits. It’s not a road to an absolute certain.

Adding they should be supported and not outed.


We have no idea which parents are unstable.

Not for you to decide. It is for the parents.

Do you understand why many people are abandoning public schools? Because of this crazy mindset of deception.

Do you think it’s ok to “out” kids against their will if it increases the risk of suicide?

Here we go again. Is there a risk of suicide? Or is it no big deal and just like a name change? Which is it? People arguing for APS’ policy can’t switch between the two arguments. It’s either a big deal and not socially transitioning increases the risk of suicide or it’s just like a nickname change. Make up your mind.

I'm sorry you are having a hard time following. Here you go.

Options when kid asks to go by a different name/pronouns at school and doesn't want parents to know. Teacher could:
a) "Out" the kid to their parents against the student's will. Teacher violates the student's privacy and potentially traumatizes them. Student has a higher risk for suicide.
b) Teacher acknowledges and accepts the kid's preference. If kid decides to change name in the future, no harm done. Or at least FAR less impact than suicide.

Got it?

The parents have to know if this is going on. Deception is not the answer here. Stop.

No, that is up to the child to decide.

If the student is using different pronouns and names at school - and the teachers, counselors, and other students are using them, the parents must be informed. I would expect other students not to say anything, but the counselor absolutely should inform the parents. Otherwise it is one big deception perpetrated against the parents who have legal responsibility for the child.

If I had to do it again today, my kids would absolutely not attend public school because of the attitudes about parents demonstrated on this board.

I'm a parent, not a teacher.

It is appalling that you want teachers to insert themselves into this situation and "out" these kids to their parents against their will. Such a violation of privacy and potentially traumatizing.

Would you insist on outing gay kids in the same way?

I think there is more active participation by other people (staff and students) with gender identity. Why else would students potentially be getting in trouble for not using the chosen pronouns or name? It is something that forces other people to go along. Being gay doesn't require that. The student doesn't even need to tell a teacher. But if a student is saying that everyone needs to use this pronoun and call me xyz, then that is something that is going to need to be addressed with the parents.

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not to mention the potential medical intervention that may come with gender exploration. Different than being gay and you should not confuse the two.

We are discussing schools. Not medical interventions.

“Outing” kids against their will would be traumatizing for both transgender and for gay kids.

This is not a student going privately to a teacher or counselor and telling that teacher that they don’t feel like the sex that they are biologically or assigned at birth or whatever you want to call it. Now if the teacher or counselor emails the parents telling them that, then sure that would be “outing.” This is a student who is asking the entire school, from teachers to fellow classmates to treat him or her as a gender different than one that corresponds to the student’s biological sex. The entire school is actively participating by using that student’s pronouns. The school is allowing that student to use a bathroom that isn’t designated for members of that student’s biological sex. The school is actively socially transitioning the student and requiring that student’s classmates to participate in that process by requiring all that student’s classmates to use that student’s preferred pronouns whatever that is. So yes, the parents should know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Are the rules really that bad? Don’t socially transition a child without the parent’s knowledge and permission? Sports that are segregated by sex continue to be segregated by sex rather than gender identity?

If you're a right wing conservative and anti trans then I guess the new rules are perfectly fine.

I'm neither, but women's rights don't get trumped by biological boys who don't want to compete against other biological boys.

Mom of a straight cis girl here. I don't think she wants to share the girls bathroom with trans boys who everyone considers to be boys. What about her rights?

Does your straight cis girl change clothes in the locker room? Does she shower? Or does she change and shower in a stall and never sees any other girls in any state of dress or undress?

She has never mentioned any concern with sharing any facilities with trans girls, literally ever. She has said how weird it would be to share facilities with trans boys (ie biological girls who look, present, act like boys) because she fully considers them to be boys.

I’m sorry, your daughter thinks it would be weird to share the locker room with girls who act like boys? Seriously? I don’t understand this. That is awful/hurtful. Girls can and should be allowed to have short hair, dress like boys and act like a Tom boy - without getting kicked out of their gender bathroom - still is a girl!! A girl should be in a girls locker room, and I wouldn’t think it’s safe or good for the girl to be in the boys locker room - unless she is fully transitioned including surgically.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are the rules really that bad? Don’t socially transition a child without the parent’s knowledge and permission? Sports that are segregated by sex continue to be segregated by sex rather than gender identity?

If you're a right wing conservative and anti trans then I guess the new rules are perfectly fine.

I'm neither, but women's rights don't get trumped by biological boys who don't want to compete against other biological boys.

Mom of a straight cis girl here. I don't think she wants to share the girls bathroom with trans boys who everyone considers to be boys. What about her rights?

Does your straight cis girl change clothes in the locker room? Does she shower? Or does she change and shower in a stall and never sees any other girls in any state of dress or undress?

She has never mentioned any concern with sharing any facilities with trans girls, literally ever. She has said how weird it would be to share facilities with trans boys (ie biological girls who look, present, act like boys) because she fully considers them to be boys.

I’m sorry, your daughter thinks it would be weird to share the locker room with girls who act like boys? Seriously? I don’t understand this. That is awful/hurtful. Girls can and should be allowed to have short hair, dress like boys and act like a Tom boy - without getting kicked out of their gender bathroom - still is a girl!! A girl should be in a girls locker room, and I wouldn’t think it’s safe or good for the girl to be in the boys locker room - unless she is fully transitioned including surgically.

NP. I think the bottom line for some parents is that if an unwanted contact or rape occured between students of opposite biological sexes in a bathroom or locker room, it could result in a forced pregnancy for the biological female.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are the rules really that bad? Don’t socially transition a child without the parent’s knowledge and permission? Sports that are segregated by sex continue to be segregated by sex rather than gender identity?

If you're a right wing conservative and anti trans then I guess the new rules are perfectly fine.

I'm neither, but women's rights don't get trumped by biological boys who don't want to compete against other biological boys.

Mom of a straight cis girl here. I don't think she wants to share the girls bathroom with trans boys who everyone considers to be boys. What about her rights?

Does your straight cis girl change clothes in the locker room? Does she shower? Or does she change and shower in a stall and never sees any other girls in any state of dress or undress?

She has never mentioned any concern with sharing any facilities with trans girls, literally ever. She has said how weird it would be to share facilities with trans boys (ie biological girls who look, present, act like boys) because she fully considers them to be boys.

I’m sorry, your daughter thinks it would be weird to share the locker room with girls who act like boys? Seriously? I don’t understand this. That is awful/hurtful. Girls can and should be allowed to have short hair, dress like boys and act like a Tom boy - without getting kicked out of their gender bathroom - still is a girl!! A girl should be in a girls locker room, and I wouldn’t think it’s safe or good for the girl to be in the boys locker room - unless she is fully transitioned including surgically.

Transgender boys are not simply tom boys. That’s a radical feminist lie.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not to mention the potential medical intervention that may come with gender exploration. Different than being gay and you should not confuse the two.

We are discussing schools. Not medical interventions.

“Outing” kids against their will would be traumatizing for both transgender and for gay kids.

This is not a student going privately to a teacher or counselor and telling that teacher that they don’t feel like the sex that they are biologically or assigned at birth or whatever you want to call it. Now if the teacher or counselor emails the parents telling them that, then sure that would be “outing.” This is a student who is asking the entire school, from teachers to fellow classmates to treat him or her as a gender different than one that corresponds to the student’s biological sex. The entire school is actively participating by using that student’s pronouns. The school is allowing that student to use a bathroom that isn’t designated for members of that student’s biological sex. The school is actively socially transitioning the student and requiring that student’s classmates to participate in that process by requiring all that student’s classmates to use that student’s preferred pronouns whatever that is. So yes, the parents should know.

If the kid has reasons for not telling the parents then the school should respect that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not to mention the potential medical intervention that may come with gender exploration. Different than being gay and you should not confuse the two.

We are discussing schools. Not medical interventions.

“Outing” kids against their will would be traumatizing for both transgender and for gay kids.

This is not a student going privately to a teacher or counselor and telling that teacher that they don’t feel like the sex that they are biologically or assigned at birth or whatever you want to call it. Now if the teacher or counselor emails the parents telling them that, then sure that would be “outing.” This is a student who is asking the entire school, from teachers to fellow classmates to treat him or her as a gender different than one that corresponds to the student’s biological sex. The entire school is actively participating by using that student’s pronouns. The school is allowing that student to use a bathroom that isn’t designated for members of that student’s biological sex. The school is actively socially transitioning the student and requiring that student’s classmates to participate in that process by requiring all that student’s classmates to use that student’s preferred pronouns whatever that is. So yes, the parents should know.

If the kid has reasons for not telling the parents then the school should respect that.

If the kid wants to report abuse or neglect then the school’s mandatory reporter obligations kick in and they are welcome to call CPS. But until then the parents are the parents and they ought to be informed. There is no middle ground. Unless we’re talking about things a kid says to a counselor, where there’s a legally established confidential relationship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are the rules really that bad? Don’t socially transition a child without the parent’s knowledge and permission? Sports that are segregated by sex continue to be segregated by sex rather than gender identity?

If you're a right wing conservative and anti trans then I guess the new rules are perfectly fine.

I'm neither, but women's rights don't get trumped by biological boys who don't want to compete against other biological boys.

Mom of a straight cis girl here. I don't think she wants to share the girls bathroom with trans boys who everyone considers to be boys. What about her rights?

Does your straight cis girl change clothes in the locker room? Does she shower? Or does she change and shower in a stall and never sees any other girls in any state of dress or undress?

She has never mentioned any concern with sharing any facilities with trans girls, literally ever. She has said how weird it would be to share facilities with trans boys (ie biological girls who look, present, act like boys) because she fully considers them to be boys.

I’m sorry, your daughter thinks it would be weird to share the locker room with girls who act like boys? Seriously? I don’t understand this. That is awful/hurtful. Girls can and should be allowed to have short hair, dress like boys and act like a Tom boy - without getting kicked out of their gender bathroom - still is a girl!! A girl should be in a girls locker room, and I wouldn’t think it’s safe or good for the girl to be in the boys locker room - unless she is fully transitioned including surgically.

Transgender boys are not simply tom boys. That’s a radical feminist lie.

What!? Tweens and teens are naturally exploring their identity and their sexuality. There are many nuances to this, it can be fluid, and it would be wrong to assume that things are set in stone at that age. For some it may be, for most it’s not.

I can’t believe that a tween/teen girl “acting like a boy” should be banned from the girls bathroom nowadays. Like a PP wrote, there are other concerns here for the genetic girl who has not transitioned (regardless of the label).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are the rules really that bad? Don’t socially transition a child without the parent’s knowledge and permission? Sports that are segregated by sex continue to be segregated by sex rather than gender identity?

If you're a right wing conservative and anti trans then I guess the new rules are perfectly fine.

I'm neither, but women's rights don't get trumped by biological boys who don't want to compete against other biological boys.

Mom of a straight cis girl here. I don't think she wants to share the girls bathroom with trans boys who everyone considers to be boys. What about her rights?

Does your straight cis girl change clothes in the locker room? Does she shower? Or does she change and shower in a stall and never sees any other girls in any state of dress or undress?

She has never mentioned any concern with sharing any facilities with trans girls, literally ever. She has said how weird it would be to share facilities with trans boys (ie biological girls who look, present, act like boys) because she fully considers them to be boys.

I’m sorry, your daughter thinks it would be weird to share the locker room with girls who act like boys? Seriously? I don’t understand this. That is awful/hurtful. Girls can and should be allowed to have short hair, dress like boys and act like a Tom boy - without getting kicked out of their gender bathroom - still is a girl!! A girl should be in a girls locker room, and I wouldn’t think it’s safe or good for the girl to be in the boys locker room - unless she is fully transitioned including surgically.

No she thinks it would be weird to share the locker room with trans boys because to her trans boys are just boys.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not to mention the potential medical intervention that may come with gender exploration. Different than being gay and you should not confuse the two.

We are discussing schools. Not medical interventions.

“Outing” kids against their will would be traumatizing for both transgender and for gay kids.

This is not a student going privately to a teacher or counselor and telling that teacher that they don’t feel like the sex that they are biologically or assigned at birth or whatever you want to call it. Now if the teacher or counselor emails the parents telling them that, then sure that would be “outing.” This is a student who is asking the entire school, from teachers to fellow classmates to treat him or her as a gender different than one that corresponds to the student’s biological sex. The entire school is actively participating by using that student’s pronouns. The school is allowing that student to use a bathroom that isn’t designated for members of that student’s biological sex. The school is actively socially transitioning the student and requiring that student’s classmates to participate in that process by requiring all that student’s classmates to use that student’s preferred pronouns whatever that is. So yes, the parents should know.

If the kid has reasons for not telling the parents then the school should respect that.

If the kid wants to report abuse or neglect then the school’s mandatory reporter obligations kick in and they are welcome to call CPS. But until then the parents are the parents and they ought to be informed. There is no middle ground. Unless we’re talking about things a kid says to a counselor, where there’s a legally established confidential relationship.

No. Teachers are not there to fix your family’s issues. And they shouldn’t “out” a kid without their permission. Gay or transgender.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not to mention the potential medical intervention that may come with gender exploration. Different than being gay and you should not confuse the two.

We are discussing schools. Not medical interventions.

“Outing” kids against their will would be traumatizing for both transgender and for gay kids.

This is not a student going privately to a teacher or counselor and telling that teacher that they don’t feel like the sex that they are biologically or assigned at birth or whatever you want to call it. Now if the teacher or counselor emails the parents telling them that, then sure that would be “outing.” This is a student who is asking the entire school, from teachers to fellow classmates to treat him or her as a gender different than one that corresponds to the student’s biological sex. The entire school is actively participating by using that student’s pronouns. The school is allowing that student to use a bathroom that isn’t designated for members of that student’s biological sex. The school is actively socially transitioning the student and requiring that student’s classmates to participate in that process by requiring all that student’s classmates to use that student’s preferred pronouns whatever that is. So yes, the parents should know.

+1
Honestly the newer school policies that said NOT to use the kid’s new name and pronouns with parents in these cases are what led to this policy. Intentionally withholding info from parents that is widespread knowledge and used daily by the schools to shape their school life is not on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are the rules really that bad? Don’t socially transition a child without the parent’s knowledge and permission? Sports that are segregated by sex continue to be segregated by sex rather than gender identity?

If you're a right wing conservative and anti trans then I guess the new rules are perfectly fine.

I'm neither, but women's rights don't get trumped by biological boys who don't want to compete against other biological boys.

Mom of a straight cis girl here. I don't think she wants to share the girls bathroom with trans boys who everyone considers to be boys. What about her rights?

Does your straight cis girl change clothes in the locker room? Does she shower? Or does she change and shower in a stall and never sees any other girls in any state of dress or undress?

She has never mentioned any concern with sharing any facilities with trans girls, literally ever. She has said how weird it would be to share facilities with trans boys (ie biological girls who look, present, act like boys) because she fully considers them to be boys.

I’m sorry, your daughter thinks it would be weird to share the locker room with girls who act like boys? Seriously? I don’t understand this. That is awful/hurtful. Girls can and should be allowed to have short hair, dress like boys and act like a Tom boy - without getting kicked out of their gender bathroom - still is a girl!! A girl should be in a girls locker room, and I wouldn’t think it’s safe or good for the girl to be in the boys locker room - unless she is fully transitioned including surgically.

Transgender boys are not simply tom boys. That’s a radical feminist lie.

Asking seriously - what is the difference besides the degree to which the child wants to differentiate from “female norms”?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not to mention the potential medical intervention that may come with gender exploration. Different than being gay and you should not confuse the two.

We are discussing schools. Not medical interventions.

“Outing” kids against their will would be traumatizing for both transgender and for gay kids.

This is not a student going privately to a teacher or counselor and telling that teacher that they don’t feel like the sex that they are biologically or assigned at birth or whatever you want to call it. Now if the teacher or counselor emails the parents telling them that, then sure that would be “outing.” This is a student who is asking the entire school, from teachers to fellow classmates to treat him or her as a gender different than one that corresponds to the student’s biological sex. The entire school is actively participating by using that student’s pronouns. The school is allowing that student to use a bathroom that isn’t designated for members of that student’s biological sex. The school is actively socially transitioning the student and requiring that student’s classmates to participate in that process by requiring all that student’s classmates to use that student’s preferred pronouns whatever that is. So yes, the parents should know.

If the kid has reasons for not telling the parents then the school should respect that.

If the kid wants to report abuse or neglect then the school’s mandatory reporter obligations kick in and they are welcome to call CPS. But until then the parents are the parents and they ought to be informed. There is no middle ground. Unless we’re talking about things a kid says to a counselor, where there’s a legally established confidential relationship.

No. Teachers are not there to fix your family’s issues. And they shouldn’t “out” a kid without their permission. Gay or transgender.

Most PPs here are not saying teachers should put gay students - specially because this is not likely to come up in the normal course of interacting with parents (unlike using a name or pronouns would) and because it does not really have an impact on how the school treats that kid. Who they are attracted to does not change how teachers and peers interact with them, which bathroom they use, which locker room they use, which room to sleep in on overnight trips, etc.