New VA trans policies for schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not to mention the potential medical intervention that may come with gender exploration. Different than being gay and you should not confuse the two.

We are discussing schools. Not medical interventions.

“Outing” kids against their will would be traumatizing for both transgender and for gay kids.

This is not a student going privately to a teacher or counselor and telling that teacher that they don’t feel like the sex that they are biologically or assigned at birth or whatever you want to call it. Now if the teacher or counselor emails the parents telling them that, then sure that would be “outing.” This is a student who is asking the entire school, from teachers to fellow classmates to treat him or her as a gender different than one that corresponds to the student’s biological sex. The entire school is actively participating by using that student’s pronouns. The school is allowing that student to use a bathroom that isn’t designated for members of that student’s biological sex. The school is actively socially transitioning the student and requiring that student’s classmates to participate in that process by requiring all that student’s classmates to use that student’s preferred pronouns whatever that is. So yes, the parents should know.

If the kid has reasons for not telling the parents then the school should respect that.

If the kid wants to report abuse or neglect then the school’s mandatory reporter obligations kick in and they are welcome to call CPS. But until then the parents are the parents and they ought to be informed. There is no middle ground. Unless we’re talking about things a kid says to a counselor, where there’s a legally established confidential relationship.

No. Teachers are not there to fix your family’s issues. And they shouldn’t “out” a kid without their permission. Gay or transgender.

Most PPs here are not saying teachers should put gay students - specially because this is not likely to come up in the normal course of interacting with parents (unlike using a name or pronouns would) and because it does not really have an impact on how the school treats that kid. Who they are attracted to does not change how teachers and peers interact with them, which bathroom they use, which locker room they use, which room to sleep in on overnight trips, etc.

This is correct. The comparison to gay students is invalid because the point of social transition is to bring something out into the open. Changing names, using different bathrooms, overnight sleeping arrangements, all of these are official acts by the school that are visible and apparent. That's very different from confessing some feelings and expecting the person to whom you're speaking to respect that confidence. In the former case, deliberately keeping parents in the dark about all of these official actions by the school means that the parents have less right to know what's going on in their kids' lives than their own classmates do.

[Anonymous]

Time for unisex bathrooms.

[Anonymous]

This is correct. The comparison to gay students is invalid because the point of social transition is to bring something out into the open. Changing names, using different bathrooms, overnight sleeping arrangements, all of these are official acts by the school that are visible and apparent. That's very different from confessing some feelings and expecting the person to whom you're speaking to respect that confidence. In the former case, deliberately keeping parents in the dark about all of these official actions by the school means that the parents have less right to know what's going on in their kids' lives than their own classmates do.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not to mention the potential medical intervention that may come with gender exploration. Different than being gay and you should not confuse the two.

We are discussing schools. Not medical interventions.

“Outing” kids against their will would be traumatizing for both transgender and for gay kids.

This is not a student going privately to a teacher or counselor and telling that teacher that they don’t feel like the sex that they are biologically or assigned at birth or whatever you want to call it. Now if the teacher or counselor emails the parents telling them that, then sure that would be “outing.” This is a student who is asking the entire school, from teachers to fellow classmates to treat him or her as a gender different than one that corresponds to the student’s biological sex. The entire school is actively participating by using that student’s pronouns. The school is allowing that student to use a bathroom that isn’t designated for members of that student’s biological sex. The school is actively socially transitioning the student and requiring that student’s classmates to participate in that process by requiring all that student’s classmates to use that student’s preferred pronouns whatever that is. So yes, the parents should know.

If the kid has reasons for not telling the parents then the school should respect that.

If the kid wants to report abuse or neglect then the school’s mandatory reporter obligations kick in and they are welcome to call CPS. But until then the parents are the parents and they ought to be informed. There is no middle ground. Unless we’re talking about things a kid says to a counselor, where there’s a legally established confidential relationship.

No. Teachers are not there to fix your family’s issues. And they shouldn’t “out” a kid without their permission. Gay or transgender.

Most PPs here are not saying teachers should put gay students - specially because this is not likely to come up in the normal course of interacting with parents (unlike using a name or pronouns would) and because it does not really have an impact on how the school treats that kid. Who they are attracted to does not change how teachers and peers interact with them, which bathroom they use, which locker room they use, which room to sleep in on overnight trips, etc.

This is correct. The comparison to gay students is invalid because the point of social transition is to bring something out into the open. Changing names, using different bathrooms, overnight sleeping arrangements, all of these are official acts by the school that are visible and apparent. That's very different from confessing some feelings and expecting the person to whom you're speaking to respect that confidence. In the former case, deliberately keeping parents in the dark about all of these official actions by the school means that the parents have less right to know what's going on in their kids' lives than their own classmates do.

People can be “out” in different ways with different people. Coming out at school is different than at home.

Again, schools are not there to fix your family’s issues. And they shouldn’t “out” a kid without their permission.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Time for unisex bathrooms.

No. School systems should not spend what would amount to millions of dollars in infrastructure changes to appease a fad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not to mention the potential medical intervention that may come with gender exploration. Different than being gay and you should not confuse the two.

We are discussing schools. Not medical interventions.

“Outing” kids against their will would be traumatizing for both transgender and for gay kids.

This is not a student going privately to a teacher or counselor and telling that teacher that they don’t feel like the sex that they are biologically or assigned at birth or whatever you want to call it. Now if the teacher or counselor emails the parents telling them that, then sure that would be “outing.” This is a student who is asking the entire school, from teachers to fellow classmates to treat him or her as a gender different than one that corresponds to the student’s biological sex. The entire school is actively participating by using that student’s pronouns. The school is allowing that student to use a bathroom that isn’t designated for members of that student’s biological sex. The school is actively socially transitioning the student and requiring that student’s classmates to participate in that process by requiring all that student’s classmates to use that student’s preferred pronouns whatever that is. So yes, the parents should know.

If the kid has reasons for not telling the parents then the school should respect that.

If the kid wants to report abuse or neglect then the school’s mandatory reporter obligations kick in and they are welcome to call CPS. But until then the parents are the parents and they ought to be informed. There is no middle ground. Unless we’re talking about things a kid says to a counselor, where there’s a legally established confidential relationship.

No. Teachers are not there to fix your family’s issues. And they shouldn’t “out” a kid without their permission. Gay or transgender.

Correct, teachers are not co-parents. If they see a student struggling with mental issues, gender confusion, this should be reported to the parent for them to "fix the family issues".
Your words, not mine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Time for unisex bathrooms.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not to mention the potential medical intervention that may come with gender exploration. Different than being gay and you should not confuse the two.

We are discussing schools. Not medical interventions.

“Outing” kids against their will would be traumatizing for both transgender and for gay kids.

This is not a student going privately to a teacher or counselor and telling that teacher that they don’t feel like the sex that they are biologically or assigned at birth or whatever you want to call it. Now if the teacher or counselor emails the parents telling them that, then sure that would be “outing.” This is a student who is asking the entire school, from teachers to fellow classmates to treat him or her as a gender different than one that corresponds to the student’s biological sex. The entire school is actively participating by using that student’s pronouns. The school is allowing that student to use a bathroom that isn’t designated for members of that student’s biological sex. The school is actively socially transitioning the student and requiring that student’s classmates to participate in that process by requiring all that student’s classmates to use that student’s preferred pronouns whatever that is. So yes, the parents should know.

If the kid has reasons for not telling the parents then the school should respect that.

If the kid wants to report abuse or neglect then the school’s mandatory reporter obligations kick in and they are welcome to call CPS. But until then the parents are the parents and they ought to be informed. There is no middle ground. Unless we’re talking about things a kid says to a counselor, where there’s a legally established confidential relationship.

No. Teachers are not there to fix your family’s issues. And they shouldn’t “out” a kid without their permission. Gay or transgender.

Correct, teachers are not co-parents. If they see a student struggling with mental issues, gender confusion, this should be reported to the parent for them to "fix the family issues".
Your words, not mine.

Mental issues are complicated. Teachers can share some observations but aren’t diagnosticians so they can only say so much.

Gender identity isn’t necessarily a “mental issue”. Only if the person is struggling.

Schools aren’t there to facilitate discussions for dysfunctional families. If your kid doesn’t want to come out to you then that’s on you. They can’t fix intolerant parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are the rules really that bad? Don’t socially transition a child without the parent’s knowledge and permission? Sports that are segregated by sex continue to be segregated by sex rather than gender identity?

If you're a right wing conservative and anti trans then I guess the new rules are perfectly fine.

I'm neither, but women's rights don't get trumped by biological boys who don't want to compete against other biological boys.

Mom of a straight cis girl here. I don't think she wants to share the girls bathroom with trans boys who everyone considers to be boys. What about her rights?

Does your straight cis girl change clothes in the locker room? Does she shower? Or does she change and shower in a stall and never sees any other girls in any state of dress or undress?

She has never mentioned any concern with sharing any facilities with trans girls, literally ever. She has said how weird it would be to share facilities with trans boys (ie biological girls who look, present, act like boys) because she fully considers them to be boys.

I’m sorry, your daughter thinks it would be weird to share the locker room with girls who act like boys? Seriously? I don’t understand this. That is awful/hurtful. Girls can and should be allowed to have short hair, dress like boys and act like a Tom boy - without getting kicked out of their gender bathroom - still is a girl!! A girl should be in a girls locker room, and I wouldn’t think it’s safe or good for the girl to be in the boys locker room - unless she is fully transitioned including surgically.

PP here, you're totally twisting this. I only added the parenthetical as a clarification because some posters on here got mixed up when I just used the term "trans boys." You can't win for trying on DCUM!

[Anonymous]

I have to wonder how many of the posters with purported concerns for cis girls' rights are also fine with females' rights being taken away in other contexts like abortion. If you're truly concerned for girls, there are so many other things you could focus on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not to mention the potential medical intervention that may come with gender exploration. Different than being gay and you should not confuse the two.

We are discussing schools. Not medical interventions.

“Outing” kids against their will would be traumatizing for both transgender and for gay kids.

This is not a student going privately to a teacher or counselor and telling that teacher that they don’t feel like the sex that they are biologically or assigned at birth or whatever you want to call it. Now if the teacher or counselor emails the parents telling them that, then sure that would be “outing.” This is a student who is asking the entire school, from teachers to fellow classmates to treat him or her as a gender different than one that corresponds to the student’s biological sex. The entire school is actively participating by using that student’s pronouns. The school is allowing that student to use a bathroom that isn’t designated for members of that student’s biological sex. The school is actively socially transitioning the student and requiring that student’s classmates to participate in that process by requiring all that student’s classmates to use that student’s preferred pronouns whatever that is. So yes, the parents should know.

If the kid has reasons for not telling the parents then the school should respect that.

If the kid wants to report abuse or neglect then the school’s mandatory reporter obligations kick in and they are welcome to call CPS. But until then the parents are the parents and they ought to be informed. There is no middle ground. Unless we’re talking about things a kid says to a counselor, where there’s a legally established confidential relationship.

No. Teachers are not there to fix your family’s issues. And they shouldn’t “out” a kid without their permission. Gay or transgender.

Correct, teachers are not co-parents. If they see a student struggling with mental issues, gender confusion, this should be reported to the parent for them to "fix the family issues".
Your words, not mine.

Mental issues are complicated. Teachers can share some observations but aren’t diagnosticians so they can only say so much.

Gender identity isn’t necessarily a “mental issue”. Only if the person is struggling.

Schools aren’t there to facilitate discussions for dysfunctional families. If your kid doesn’t want to come out to you then that’s on you. They can’t fix intolerant parents.

Yes, issues like that are a parent's responsibility. How, exactly, can the parents fix that communication problem if the government is actively concealing all information related to it? Once again, you're claiming that the school system has the right to take official actions on a child's behalf, actions that are themselves not secret and are apparent to anyone in the school, conceal those actions from the parents to the point of even lying about them (like using the birth name when talking with parents even though the school officially changed it), all without any sort of official finding of parental abuse or neglect?

That's not "staying out of it". That's not the school system saying families need to fix their own issues. That is the school system deliberately placing itself between a child and their parents. And if they think that's necessary, then they need to put up or shut up and declare the parents unfit or report to CPS. The fact that they don't, that they want to carve out this in-between space tells us everything we need to know, because everyone knows that would be drastic and harmful to the kid, and would produce a massive backlash.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have to wonder how many of the posters with purported concerns for cis girls' rights are also fine with females' rights being taken away in other contexts like abortion. If you're truly concerned for girls, there are so many other things you could focus on.

+1
They don't actually care about girls. They are just anti trans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have to wonder how many of the posters with purported concerns for cis girls' rights are also fine with females' rights being taken away in other contexts like abortion. If you're truly concerned for girls, there are so many other things you could focu

+1
They don't actually care about girls. They are just anti trans.

And, you know this, how?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not to mention the potential medical intervention that may come with gender exploration. Different than being gay and you should not confuse the two.

We are discussing schools. Not medical interventions.

“Outing” kids against their will would be traumatizing for both transgender and for gay kids.

This is not a student going privately to a teacher or counselor and telling that teacher that they don’t feel like the sex that they are biologically or assigned at birth or whatever you want to call it. Now if the teacher or counselor emails the parents telling them that, then sure that would be “outing.” This is a student who is asking the entire school, from teachers to fellow classmates to treat him or her as a gender different than one that corresponds to the student’s biological sex. The entire school is actively participating by using that student’s pronouns. The school is allowing that student to use a bathroom that isn’t designated for members of that student’s biological sex. The school is actively socially transitioning the student and requiring that student’s classmates to participate in that process by requiring all that student’s classmates to use that student’s preferred pronouns whatever that is. So yes, the parents should know.

If the kid has reasons for not telling the parents then the school should respect that.

If the kid wants to report abuse or neglect then the school’s mandatory reporter obligations kick in and they are welcome to call CPS. But until then the parents are the parents and they ought to be informed. There is no middle ground. Unless we’re talking about things a kid says to a counselor, where there’s a legally established confidential relationship.

No. Teachers are not there to fix your family’s issues. And they shouldn’t “out” a kid without their permission. Gay or transgender.

Most PPs here are not saying teachers should put gay students - specially because this is not likely to come up in the normal course of interacting with parents (unlike using a name or pronouns would) and because it does not really have an impact on how the school treats that kid. Who they are attracted to does not change how teachers and peers interact with them, which bathroom they use, which locker room they use, which room to sleep in on overnight trips, etc.

The main reason boys and girls have always been separated for locker rooms, overnight accommodations, etc. is to eliminate sexual behaviors. And that has dictated others' interactions by way of chaperones, managing seating on buses, segregated bathrooms, segregated locker rooms. But all you people saying this is only about gender identification, I guess you don't care about that because you're fine with homosexual teens sleeping with same-sex peers on field trips and showering and changing clothes in front of same-sex peers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Time for unisex bathrooms.

Personally, I wouldn't want to use community unisex bathrooms; but policy-wise, I agree.