School residency cheaters investigated

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The census estimated there were 38,522 children aged 5-10 in DC in 2015. DCPS and charters reported 38,421 children enrolled in grades K-4 in 2015/16. In 2010, the American Community Survey estimated there were 4,784 DC children enrolled in private K-4. Doesn't capture home schooling. Even with margins of error and declines in private school enrollment since 2010, seems like DC has a couple thousand more kids enrolled in school than are in the census for DC.

Oooh! I like your research!

Good thinking to look in these numbers! Question: Seems like ages 5-10 is 6 years worth of children, but K-4 is only 5 grades. Is there a mismatch?

Citing some links would be useful. According to this for 2014 kids from 5-11 in D.C. = 41,551
http://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/tables/101-child-population-by-age-group#detailed/2/10/false/869/62,63,64,6,4693/419,420

and for enrollment for 2014/2015 for k-6 = 24,353
http://dcps.dc.gov/page/dcps-glance-enrollment

and for k-4 for 2015/16 = 20,161

Somebody correct my math, maybe i am just doing this too quickly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The census estimated there were 38,522 children aged 5-10 in DC in 2015. DCPS and charters reported 38,421 children enrolled in grades K-4 in 2015/16. In 2010, the American Community Survey estimated there were 4,784 DC children enrolled in private K-4. Doesn't capture home schooling. Even with margins of error and declines in private school enrollment since 2010, seems like DC has a couple thousand more kids enrolled in school than are in the census for DC.

Oooh! I like your research!

Good thinking to look in these numbers! Question: Seems like ages 5-10 is 6 years worth of children, but K-4 is only 5 grades. Is there a mismatch?

Citing some links would be useful. According to this for 2014 kids from 5-11 in D.C. = 41,551
http://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/tables/101-child-population-by-age-group#detailed/2/10/false/869/62,63,64,6,4693/419,420

and for enrollment for 2014/2015 for k-6 = 24,353
http://dcps.dc.gov/page/dcps-glance-enrollment

and for k-4 for 2015/16 = 20,161

Somebody correct my math, maybe i am just doing this too quickly.

Here is what i used:

charter enrollment: http://www.dcpcsb.org/data/student-enrollment
DCPS enrollment: http://dcps.dc.gov/page/dcps-glance-enrollment
census: http://factfinder.census.gov/bkmk/table/1.0/en/PEP/2015/PEPSYASEX?slice=GEO~0400000US11

can't find the ACS with private school right now. I couldn't find by year, just by group, which is why it cut off at 4th not 5th.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The census estimated there were 38,522 children aged 5-10 in DC in 2015. DCPS and charters reported 38,421 children enrolled in grades K-4 in 2015/16. In 2010, the American Community Survey estimated there were 4,784 DC children enrolled in private K-4. Doesn't capture home schooling. Even with margins of error and declines in private school enrollment since 2010, seems like DC has a couple thousand more kids enrolled in school than are in the census for DC.

Oooh! I like your research!

Nothing to see here. Move along. Mind your own business. Keep your head down. Go along to get along. It the ol' DC way.

The census is not an accurate way to count DC school enrollment. The census happens every 10 years and is well known to undercount children. But nice try Harriet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The census estimated there were 38,522 children aged 5-10 in DC in 2015. DCPS and charters reported 38,421 children enrolled in grades K-4 in 2015/16. In 2010, the American Community Survey estimated there were 4,784 DC children enrolled in private K-4. Doesn't capture home schooling. Even with margins of error and declines in private school enrollment since 2010, seems like DC has a couple thousand more kids enrolled in school than are in the census for DC.

Oooh! I like your research!

Good thinking to look in these numbers! Question: Seems like ages 5-10 is 6 years worth of children, but K-4 is only 5 grades. Is there a mismatch?

Citing some links would be useful. According to this for 2014 kids from 5-11 in D.C. = 41,551
http://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/tables/101-child-population-by-age-group#detailed/2/10/false/869/62,63,64,6,4693/419,420

and for enrollment for 2014/2015 for k-6 = 24,353
http://dcps.dc.gov/page/dcps-glance-enrollment

and for k-4 for 2015/16 = 20,161

Somebody correct my math, maybe i am just doing this too quickly.

I do not think DCPS does not include charter numbers in that link,
K-6 = 14788 for 2013/2014
https://data.dcpcsb.org/Enrollment-/PCS-Student-Enrollment-by-Grade-Column-Chart/tgvk-re43

and for enrollment for 2013/2014 for k-6 = 23,590
http://dcps.dc.gov/page/dcps-glance-enrollment

for a total of 38,378

[Anonymous]

What are the reliable sources for the the costs to educate each student?

$29349 from this 2014 article?
http://www.cnsnews.com/commentary/terence-p-jeffrey/dc-schools-29349-pupil-83-not-proficient-reading

and this 2012 one

http://www.cato.org/blog/census-bureau-confirms-dc-spends-29409-pupil

and this 2012 one
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-mcshane/dc-public-schools-grossly_b_1638663.html

------------
$8312 to $16467 from this 2015 article
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/dc-schools-budget-includes-wide-range-in-per-student-spending/2015/04/23/4e1027f0-e919-11e4-9767-6276fc9b0ada_story.html

---------------
6k to 17k according to this
http://dcpsbudget.ourdcschools.org/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The census estimated there were 38,522 children aged 5-10 in DC in 2015. DCPS and charters reported 38,421 children enrolled in grades K-4 in 2015/16. In 2010, the American Community Survey estimated there were 4,784 DC children enrolled in private K-4. Doesn't capture home schooling. Even with margins of error and declines in private school enrollment since 2010, seems like DC has a couple thousand more kids enrolled in school than are in the census for DC.

Oooh! I like your research!

Good thinking to look in these numbers! Question: Seems like ages 5-10 is 6 years worth of children, but K-4 is only 5 grades. Is there a mismatch?

Citing some links would be useful. According to this for 2014 kids from 5-11 in D.C. = 41,551
http://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/tables/101-child-population-by-age-group#detailed/2/10/false/869/62,63,64,6,4693/419,420

and for enrollment for 2014/2015 for k-6 = 24,353
http://dcps.dc.gov/page/dcps-glance-enrollment

and for k-4 for 2015/16 = 20,161

Somebody correct my math, maybe i am just doing this too quickly.

Here is what i used:

charter enrollment: http://www.dcpcsb.org/data/student-enrollment
DCPS enrollment: http://dcps.dc.gov/page/dcps-glance-enrollment
census: http://factfinder.census.gov/bkmk/table/1.0/en/PEP/2015/PEPSYASEX?slice=GEO~0400000US11

can't find the ACS with private school right now. I couldn't find by year, just by group, which is why it cut off at 4th not 5th.

I can't believe I spent part of a Friday night looking for this. But here is a 2014 ACS table on private school enrollment: http://factfinder.census.gov/bkmk/table/1.0/en/ACS/14_1YR/C14002/0400000US11

Also -- I don't know if the census undercounts kids, and, yes, the 2015 number is not a direct census, but the methodology they use to get to the 2015 numbers seems OK. Does the census undercount kids by ~10%? That's how many extra kids my kludgy math comes up with for DCPS + charter + private compared to the census for the elementary school years. Not proof that there are extra kids in DC public schools but food for thought.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The census estimated there were 38,522 children aged 5-10 in DC in 2015. DCPS and charters reported 38,421 children enrolled in grades K-4 in 2015/16. In 2010, the American Community Survey estimated there were 4,784 DC children enrolled in private K-4. Doesn't capture home schooling. Even with margins of error and declines in private school enrollment since 2010, seems like DC has a couple thousand more kids enrolled in school than are in the census for DC.

Oooh! I like your research!

Good thinking to look in these numbers! Question: Seems like ages 5-10 is 6 years worth of children, but K-4 is only 5 grades. Is there a mismatch?

Citing some links would be useful. According to this for 2014 kids from 5-11 in D.C. = 41,551
http://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/tables/101-child-population-by-age-group#detailed/2/10/false/869/62,63,64,6,4693/419,420

and for enrollment for 2014/2015 for k-6 = 24,353
http://dcps.dc.gov/page/dcps-glance-enrollment

and for k-4 for 2015/16 = 20,161

Somebody correct my math, maybe i am just doing this too quickly.

Here is what i used:

charter enrollment: http://www.dcpcsb.org/data/student-enrollment
DCPS enrollment: http://dcps.dc.gov/page/dcps-glance-enrollment
census: http://factfinder.census.gov/bkmk/table/1.0/en/PEP/2015/PEPSYASEX?slice=GEO~0400000US11

can't find the ACS with private school right now. I couldn't find by year, just by group, which is why it cut off at 4th not 5th.

I can't believe I spent part of a Friday night looking for this. But here is a 2014 ACS table on private school enrollment: http://factfinder.census.gov/bkmk/table/1.0/en/ACS/14_1YR/C14002/0400000US11

Also -- I don't know if the census undercounts kids, and, yes, the 2015 number is not a direct census, but the methodology they use to get to the 2015 numbers seems OK. Does the census undercount kids by ~10%? That's how many extra kids my kludgy math comes up with for DCPS + charter + private compared to the census for the elementary school years. Not proof that there are extra kids in DC public schools but food for thought.

Interesting. Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:from the DMV website:
If you park or operate a vehicle in public space in the District of Columbia for 30 consecutive days, the vehicle must be registered and display a valid DC DMV inspection sticker and tags.

Please note its not just parking.

Not to mention that if a vehicle is really kept in the District but the operator maintains tags and insurance in another jurisdiction to save on insurance costs, that could be considered insurance fraud and at a minimum lead to a denial of coverage in the event of a claim.

For someone like myself who just move to the District from MD, I'm not switching over my tags until the car is paid off. I'm just not going to pay taxes on my car twice.

You don't pay taxes if your car was registered in your name in another state. Do people really not even read requirements when they move into a new state?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, she is a DC taxpayer.

You can have only once legal residence, regardless if one owns property and pays certain taxes in other jurisdictions. Based on all indications, her legal residence is in Maryland.

you pay income taxes in DC you're a DC resident. end of story

+1

Frankly, that's all the District OAG is going to care about in this case. Did she pay income taxes to DC for all the years her kids were enrolled? If yes, she won't face the financial penalties. She may still get kicked out of the schools, but I bet she will actually move into the rental property before it even gets to that.

No. She likely gets DC Taxes taken out but then gets a full refund from DC every year because she claims MD residency on her federal taxes then pays MD accordingly.

It all started when someone said the mother in question pays DC taxes. We don't know if she pays DC taxes. In her mind she could be paying them biweekly thinking that counts even if she gets full refund for living in MD. Now YOU try to keep up.
I never said "withheld" -- I said paid. try to keep up

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, she is a DC taxpayer.

You can have only once legal residence, regardless if one owns property and pays certain taxes in other jurisdictions. Based on all indications, her legal residence is in Maryland.

you pay income taxes in DC you're a DC resident. end of story

+1

Frankly, that's all the District OAG is going to care about in this case. Did she pay income taxes to DC for all the years her kids were enrolled? If yes, she won't face the financial penalties. She may still get kicked out of the schools, but I bet she will actually move into the rental property before it even gets to that.

No. She likely gets DC Taxes taken out but then gets a full refund from DC every year because she claims MD residency on her federal taxes then pays MD accordingly.

I never said "withheld" -- I said paid. try to keep up

It all started when someone said the mother in question pays DC taxes. We don't know if she pays DC taxes. In her mind she could be paying them biweekly thinking that counts even if she gets full refund for living in MD. You don't know what she's paying. Now YOU try to keep up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The census estimated there were 38,522 children aged 5-10 in DC in 2015. DCPS and charters reported 38,421 children enrolled in grades K-4 in 2015/16. In 2010, the American Community Survey estimated there were 4,784 DC children enrolled in private K-4. Doesn't capture home schooling. Even with margins of error and declines in private school enrollment since 2010, seems like DC has a couple thousand more kids enrolled in school than are in the census for DC.

Oooh! I like your research!

Good thinking to look in these numbers! Question: Seems like ages 5-10 is 6 years worth of children, but K-4 is only 5 grades. Is there a mismatch?

Citing some links would be useful. According to this for 2014 kids from 5-11 in D.C. = 41,551
http://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/tables/101-child-population-by-age-group#detailed/2/10/false/869/62,63,64,6,4693/419,420

and for enrollment for 2014/2015 for k-6 = 24,353
http://dcps.dc.gov/page/dcps-glance-enrollment

and for k-4 for 2015/16 = 20,161

Somebody correct my math, maybe i am just doing this too quickly.

Here is what i used:

charter enrollment: http://www.dcpcsb.org/data/student-enrollment
DCPS enrollment: http://dcps.dc.gov/page/dcps-glance-enrollment
census: http://factfinder.census.gov/bkmk/table/1.0/en/PEP/2015/PEPSYASEX?slice=GEO~0400000US11

can't find the ACS with private school right now. I couldn't find by year, just by group, which is why it cut off at 4th not 5th.

I can't believe I spent part of a Friday night looking for this. But here is a 2014 ACS table on private school enrollment: http://factfinder.census.gov/bkmk/table/1.0/en/ACS/14_1YR/C14002/0400000US11

Also -- I don't know if the census undercounts kids, and, yes, the 2015 number is not a direct census, but the methodology they use to get to the 2015 numbers seems OK. Does the census undercount kids by ~10%? That's how many extra kids my kludgy math comes up with for DCPS + charter + private compared to the census for the elementary school years. Not proof that there are extra kids in DC public schools but food for thought.

the last census was in 2010 and yes it undercounts siginicantly. these are numbers being picked out of the air.

[Anonymous]

Perhaps the daily caller crowd has decided to show us they know what numbers are.

[Anonymous]

Anyone care to speculate on how rampant a problem this is at Watkins Elementary?

Without outing specific kids, do folks (e.g., teachers, parents, etc) know of students who live in MD?

[Anonymous]

Absolutely, yes. But then the great majority of OOB students at Watkins are not in fact PG County address cheaters, they're Ward 7 and 8 parents. The Ward 9 folk are more prevalent at Hill schools with fewer high SES students, like Payne, Miner, Ludlow and JO Wilson.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The census estimated there were 38,522 children aged 5-10 in DC in 2015. DCPS and charters reported 38,421 children enrolled in grades K-4 in 2015/16. In 2010, the American Community Survey estimated there were 4,784 DC children enrolled in private K-4. Doesn't capture home schooling. Even with margins of error and declines in private school enrollment since 2010, seems like DC has a couple thousand more kids enrolled in school than are in the census for DC.

which wouldn't be a problem if they paid out of state tuition as legally stipulated. The problem lies in failure to cede lottery position behind DC residents, and of course to actually pay the required tuition which rarely ever gets remitted.

For all the bitching and moaning on this board about spots in "JKLM" or "HRCS", the real losers here are DC families at the bottom of wait lists for schools like DC PREP and KIPP. That's probably impacting more impoverished DC residents who not only get screwed with lousy neighborhood schools but lose out to PG residents taking spots at preferred and more convenient charters.

+1. This is very true.

Perry St Prep, close to the MD line, has nearly every single child dropped off with an MD plate. Granted, it could be just grandma or someone who failed to register their car. But every car? And I have heard them say "bye mom, bye dad!" I feel bad for the school which is under enrolled and working hard, but it seems that there definitely are some residency cheaters there.