J.K. Rowling’s post on trans-identity and modern misogyny

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Repeat after me: other people’s gender identity is none of my business and I don’t need to police it. It’s literally not up to you decide when a person can or should transition

x1 million

In our society we protect children. They’re not allowed to drink alcohol, smoke cigarettes, get a tattoo, go to a tanning salon. Yet we’re allowing them to surgically alter their bodies and take hormones. A 4000% increase in girls seeking treatment for gender issues is a cause for serious concern. We should be looking at why so many girls want to opt out of womanhood and boys opt out of manhood. It’s not out of line to raise the alarm over this.

You’re very misinformed. Most teens who transition do not have any type of surgery. The medication they take essentially puts hormonal development “on pause” to allow them time to transition or, if necessary, transition back if they decide to do that. Coming off the medication would continue development as usual. They’re not “opting out” of anything - they are opting into living life that is true to who they are. your faux concern is way off base.

Also, just as many don’t do any treatment at all but simply dress for their gender identity, perhaps change their name or go by a nickname, and use the pronouns they identify with. None of which are objectionable.

Unless they're claiming that no treatment + saying they're a girl is sufficient to participate in sex-segregated sports as a girl. And if they have the terrible need for domestic violence or rape crisis centers, to attend them as girls. And so on.

They aren't saying they also need access to something, but rather they should be able to be in girl and women spaces. That their need is greater than that of girls and women. So girls and women should sit down and shut up, which girls and women are so good at doing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know why the term trans activist would offend you. It is what you’re doing and it’s great there should be trans activists. I know you would disagree but I think of myself as one. Someone above said I’m like a closet trump supporter which is like, literally hilarious in its absurdity.

If you think that I, a person who believes deeply in supporting trans people’s ability to lead whatever longer they wish, call themselves whatever gender they want, use whatever pronouns they want, be able to marry freely and be protected from discrimination. If you think all of that counts for nothing and the fact that my concerns about language diluting women’s advocacy erase all that and turn me into a trump supporter bigot than you really need to examine why you require 1000% agreement too be satisfied. The country will never ever move forward and grow under those types of purity tests

^^This is another great post, PP.

The all-or-nothing cancel culture is exactly why we’re in the political position we are now.

PP, please don’t ever stop expressing your views on this. You are eloquently speaking for many of us.

[New Poster, following along]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Repeat after me: other people’s gender identity is none of my business and I don’t need to police it. It’s literally not up to you decide when a person can or should transition

x1 million

In our society we protect children. They’re not allowed to drink alcohol, smoke cigarettes, get a tattoo, go to a tanning salon. Yet we’re allowing them to surgically alter their bodies and take hormones. A 4000% increase in girls seeking treatment for gender issues is a cause for serious concern. We should be looking at why so many girls want to opt out of womanhood and boys opt out of manhood. It’s not out of line to raise the alarm over this.

You’re very misinformed. Most teens who transition do not have any type of surgery. The medication they take essentially puts hormonal development “on pause” to allow them time to transition or, if necessary, transition back if they decide to do that. Coming off the medication would continue development as usual. They’re not “opting out” of anything - they are opting into living life that is true to who they are. your faux concern is way off base.

The drugs used to “pause” puberty are not without harm. They can cause a lifetime of issues related to bone loss, including brittle bones and painful joints. https://khn.org/news/women-fear-drug-they-used-to-halt-puberty-led-to-health-problems/

There are minors getting hormones and “top surgery”. They’re being given medications rather than the mental heath care they really need. Here’s one psychiatrist’s story. https://quillette.com/2017/10/06/misunderstanding-new-kind-gender-dysphoria/

Look at Jazz Jennings, arguably the poster child for transitioning as a minor. At the age of 19, Jazz has never experienced an orgasm. She has a vagina which has to be dilated daily, which allows her to participate in a sex act she won’t derive pleasure from. She’s been sterilized. She’ll never have children of her own. All this because at the age of 2, she was a little boy who liked dresses and the color purple, and some say was emulating a beloved older sister.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know why the term trans activist would offend you. It is what you’re doing and it’s great there should be trans activists. I know you would disagree but I think of myself as one. Someone above said I’m like a closet trump supporter which is like, literally hilarious in its absurdity.

If you think that I, a person who believes deeply in supporting trans people’s ability to lead whatever longer they wish, call themselves whatever gender they want, use whatever pronouns they want, be able to marry freely and be protected from discrimination. If you think all of that counts for nothing and the fact that my concerns about language diluting women’s advocacy erase all that and turn me into a trump supporter bigot than you really need to examine why you require 1000% agreement too be satisfied. The country will never ever move forward and grow under those types of purity tests

^^This is another great post, PP.

The all-or-nothing cancel culture is exactly why we’re in the political position we are now.

PP, please don’t ever stop expressing your views on this. You are eloquently speaking for many of us.

[New Poster, following along]

Bullshit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does giving Trans women rights diminish biological women's rights?

We're all in the same group as "female." I don't care if trans women want to join. The more the merrier.

THIS

They can join but shouldn't take over. They can go compete in men's Olympics

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Repeat after me: other people’s gender identity is none of my business and I don’t need to police it. It’s literally not up to you decide when a person can or should transition

x1 million

In our society we protect children. They’re not allowed to drink alcohol, smoke cigarettes, get a tattoo, go to a tanning salon. Yet we’re allowing them to surgically alter their bodies and take hormones. A 4000% increase in girls seeking treatment for gender issues is a cause for serious concern. We should be looking at why so many girls want to opt out of womanhood and boys opt out of manhood. It’s not out of line to raise the alarm over this.

Are you raising an alarm or are you trying to tell other people what they can do with their bodies?

Do you have a counter-argument, or are you trying to dodge the question?

What question?

Sounds like you want to tell other people what they can do with their bodies. As a woman who values bodily autonomy, I have a problem with that.

NP here. So...since what is being specifically discussed here is changes to the bodies of minors, do you feel that restrictions on tattoos for minors should be lifted? Restrictions on cigarettes and alcohol for minors?

I think families should work with their doctors to make those decisions. They don't need other people involved in medical decisions.

By that logic, families should be the ones to decide if their children are drinking alcohol and smoking cigarettes and there should be no laws prohibiting this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Who cares about menstruation?

I am an XX woman who doesn't menstruate anymore (IUD). I am soooo grateful for that!! LOL. Menstruation sucks. I would love for my DD to get an IUD that stops menstruation when she is a teen.

I have no problem with saying "people who menstruate." As a woman, I have no desire to claim menstruation as some great thing. It's a PITA.

Menstruation could get you killed, being denied education... it is a huge womens issue and f the people who labeled it so flippantly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Repeat after me: other people’s gender identity is none of my business and I don’t need to police it. It’s literally not up to you decide when a person can or should transition

x1 million

In our society we protect children. They’re not allowed to drink alcohol, smoke cigarettes, get a tattoo, go to a tanning salon. Yet we’re allowing them to surgically alter their bodies and take hormones. A 4000% increase in girls seeking treatment for gender issues is a cause for serious concern. We should be looking at why so many girls want to opt out of womanhood and boys opt out of manhood. It’s not out of line to raise the alarm over this.

You’re very misinformed. Most teens who transition do not have any type of surgery. The medication they take essentially puts hormonal development “on pause” to allow them time to transition or, if necessary, transition back if they decide to do that. Coming off the medication would continue development as usual. They’re not “opting out” of anything - they are opting into living life that is true to who they are. your faux concern is way off base.

The drugs used to “pause” puberty are not without harm. They can cause a lifetime of issues related to bone loss, including brittle bones and painful joints. https://khn.org/news/women-fear-drug-they-used-to-halt-puberty-led-to-health-problems/

There are minors getting hormones and “top surgery”. They’re being given medications rather than the mental heath care they really need. Here’s one psychiatrist’s story. https://quillette.com/2017/10/06/misunderstanding-new-kind-gender-dysphoria/

Look at Jazz Jennings, arguably the poster child for transitioning as a minor. At the age of 19, Jazz has never experienced an orgasm. She has a vagina which has to be dilated daily, which allows her to participate in a sex act she won’t derive pleasure from. She’s been sterilized. She’ll never have children of her own. All this because at the age of 2, she was a little boy who liked dresses and the color purple, and some say was emulating a beloved older sister.

She has bodily autonomy. You don't get a say in what she (and her family and doctors) decide to do with her body.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Repeat after me: other people’s gender identity is none of my business and I don’t need to police it. It’s literally not up to you decide when a person can or should transition

x1 million

In our society we protect children. They’re not allowed to drink alcohol, smoke cigarettes, get a tattoo, go to a tanning salon. Yet we’re allowing them to surgically alter their bodies and take hormones. A 4000% increase in girls seeking treatment for gender issues is a cause for serious concern. We should be looking at why so many girls want to opt out of womanhood and boys opt out of manhood. It’s not out of line to raise the alarm over this.

Are you raising an alarm or are you trying to tell other people what they can do with their bodies?

Do you have a counter-argument, or are you trying to dodge the question?

What question?

Sounds like you want to tell other people what they can do with their bodies. As a woman who values bodily autonomy, I have a problem with that.

NP here. So...since what is being specifically discussed here is changes to the bodies of minors, do you feel that restrictions on tattoos for minors should be lifted? Restrictions on cigarettes and alcohol for minors?

I think families should work with their doctors to make those decisions. They don't need other people involved in medical decisions.

By that logic, families should be the ones to decide if their children are drinking alcohol and smoking cigarettes and there should be no laws prohibiting this.

Sure. As long as parents go talk to their kids' doctors and ask about the use of alcohol and cigarettes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who cares about menstruation?

I am an XX woman who doesn't menstruate anymore (IUD). I am soooo grateful for that!! LOL. Menstruation sucks. I would love for my DD to get an IUD that stops menstruation when she is a teen.

I have no problem with saying "people who menstruate." As a woman, I have no desire to claim menstruation as some great thing. It's a PITA.

Menstruation could get you killed, being denied education... it is a huge womens issue and f the people who labeled it so flippantly.

It's an issue for anyone who menstruates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Repeat after me: other people’s gender identity is none of my business and I don’t need to police it. It’s literally not up to you decide when a person can or should transition

x1 million

In our society we protect children. They’re not allowed to drink alcohol, smoke cigarettes, get a tattoo, go to a tanning salon. Yet we’re allowing them to surgically alter their bodies and take hormones. A 4000% increase in girls seeking treatment for gender issues is a cause for serious concern. We should be looking at why so many girls want to opt out of womanhood and boys opt out of manhood. It’s not out of line to raise the alarm over this.

Are you raising an alarm or are you trying to tell other people what they can do with their bodies?

Do you have a counter-argument, or are you trying to dodge the question?

What question?

Sounds like you want to tell other people what they can do with their bodies. As a woman who values bodily autonomy, I have a problem with that.

NP here. So...since what is being specifically discussed here is changes to the bodies of minors, do you feel that restrictions on tattoos for minors should be lifted? Restrictions on cigarettes and alcohol for minors?

I think families should work with their doctors to make those decisions. They don't need other people involved in medical decisions.

By that logic, families should be the ones to decide if their children are drinking alcohol and smoking cigarettes and there should be no laws prohibiting this.

Sure. As long as parents go talk to their kids' doctors and ask about the use of alcohol and cigarettes.

Not PP, but thanks for admitting that you don’t care about minors’ health or safety. It’s pretty refreshing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women can still have women's rights. They just need to make sure the emotional needs of past and present male identifying people are met first.

As it has always been. Sigh.

This is pathetic. Trans women face discrimination and prejudice and bigotry every single day of their lives. Double that if they’re also Black or a person of color in which case they face increased rates of violence. But yeah you two are def the ones being oppressed here.

This isn’t supposed to be a race to the bottom, where the most oppressed party wins. There are principles of equal treatment and human dignity we expect society to uphold.

Women fought long and hard for equal treatment under the law. People aren’t arguing to take away rights from transgender people. But some aspects of our society, like competition in sports, are divided by sex (not gender identity), to give women an equal chance to participate in those activities.

Some accommodations, like homeless shelters or domestic violence services, are divided by sex to give protection to vulnerable members of society. No one is stopping people concerned about vulnerable transgender people from creating programs and services for them. They’re objecting to having to include them in the same programs as natural-born women. If you require everyone to say that transgender women are women, you end up ignoring reality and end up providing cover for men who want access to vulnerable women. Women in those situations have a right to privacy and dignity. Transgender women have those same rights, and can be served by having their own programs and protections.

Guess you haven’t read the news.

The PP means *on this thread* (and I suspect you know it).

The anti-JKR people on this thread are creating conflicts where there are none. So many PPs on this thread have specifically stated that while they agree with points JKR is making, they do not want trans women to come to harm, be bullied or be discriminated against. They *want* there to be programs and support for trans women, but they don't want women to suffer either.

[Anonymous]

Trump is passing laws limiting trans rights, and men saw murdering trans women, yet trans “activists” only care about TERFs. If you needed more proof that this was about making women sit down and shut up rather than actually supporting trans women, here it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Repeat after me: other people’s gender identity is none of my business and I don’t need to police it. It’s literally not up to you decide when a person can or should transition

x1 million

In our society we protect children. They’re not allowed to drink alcohol, smoke cigarettes, get a tattoo, go to a tanning salon. Yet we’re allowing them to surgically alter their bodies and take hormones. A 4000% increase in girls seeking treatment for gender issues is a cause for serious concern. We should be looking at why so many girls want to opt out of womanhood and boys opt out of manhood. It’s not out of line to raise the alarm over this.

Are you raising an alarm or are you trying to tell other people what they can do with their bodies?

Do you have a counter-argument, or are you trying to dodge the question?

What question?

Sounds like you want to tell other people what they can do with their bodies. As a woman who values bodily autonomy, I have a problem with that.

NP here. So...since what is being specifically discussed here is changes to the bodies of minors, do you feel that restrictions on tattoos for minors should be lifted? Restrictions on cigarettes and alcohol for minors?

I think families should work with their doctors to make those decisions. They don't need other people involved in medical decisions.

By that logic, families should be the ones to decide if their children are drinking alcohol and smoking cigarettes and there should be no laws prohibiting this.

Sure. As long as parents go talk to their kids' doctors and ask about the use of alcohol and cigarettes.

Not PP, but thanks for admitting that you don’t care about minors’ health or safety. It’s pretty refreshing.

+1

NP but that PP's response is utter nonsense. And let me add that by this logic a 12 year old girl should be able to choose to have sex with an 18 year old with no issue because it's her body? Or a tween who cuts themselves (not life threatening) should just be allowed because it's their choice? Or tweens with eating disorders, well they can choose not to eat and who are we to stop them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who cares about menstruation?

I am an XX woman who doesn't menstruate anymore (IUD). I am soooo grateful for that!! LOL. Menstruation sucks. I would love for my DD to get an IUD that stops menstruation when she is a teen.

I have no problem with saying "people who menstruate." As a woman, I have no desire to claim menstruation as some great thing. It's a PITA.

Menstruation could get you killed, being denied education... it is a huge womens issue and f the people who labeled it so flippantly.

+1

This is one of my issues too- menstruation is a big deal for women in many parts of the world. As is the age they start growing breasts. Many women are raped, mutilated, forced into marriage, etc. These are serious women's issues. Not people who menstruate.