J.K. Rowling’s post on trans-identity and modern misogyny

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Repeat after me: other people’s gender identity is none of my business and I don’t need to police it. It’s literally not up to you decide when a person can or should transition

x1 million

In our society we protect children. They’re not allowed to drink alcohol, smoke cigarettes, get a tattoo, go to a tanning salon. Yet we’re allowing them to surgically alter their bodies and take hormones. A 4000% increase in girls seeking treatment for gender issues is a cause for serious concern. We should be looking at why so many girls want to opt out of womanhood and boys opt out of manhood. It’s not out of line to raise the alarm over this.

You’re very misinformed. Most teens who transition do not have any type of surgery. The medication they take essentially puts hormonal development “on pause” to allow them time to transition or, if necessary, transition back if they decide to do that. Coming off the medication would continue development as usual. They’re not “opting out” of anything - they are opting into living life that is true to who they are. your faux concern is way off base.

Also, just as many don’t do any treatment at all but simply dress for their gender identity, perhaps change their name or go by a nickname, and use the pronouns they identify with. None of which are objectionable.

I don't think a single person on this thread has argued that a trans child or teen should not be able to dress how they want or change their name or pronouns. So what is your point? More attempts to create conflict where there is none here. The main concern raised is medical procedures that would not be reversible later. Do we know the potential long term effects for hormone treatments in adolescence? I haven't researched it yet, so I don't know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^do you agree that trans people should only be allowed to receive healthcare based on their biological sex or not? If you agree with that and you support providers withholding healthcare from individuals who are trans based on their biological sex, it’s hard to see how you’re pro-trans. You might not be anti-trans but you can’t claim to support trans rights while also being okay with them being denied healthcare.

Pp never said anything about denying healthcare.

No one has. Some angry person on here is seeing so red, they are not reading what people are saying. They are projecting opinions held by anti-trans people in the general public on to the PPs here that support the arguments of JKR.

They are basically saying if you refuse to say that a trans woman is EXACTLY the same as any other (biologically-born) woman and to allow all trans women into ALL spaces that were traditionally reserved for (biologically born) women, then you are anti-trans. Which is false. Even if you would otherwise support protections for trans women, services for trans women, rights for trans women, happily call them by their chosen names and pronouns etc, they don't care. To them, you must say there are no differences or you are the devil.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^do you agree that trans people should only be allowed to receive healthcare based on their biological sex or not? If you agree with that and you support providers withholding healthcare from individuals who are trans based on their biological sex, it’s hard to see how you’re pro-trans. You might not be anti-trans but you can’t claim to support trans rights while also being okay with them being denied healthcare.

Pp never said anything about denying healthcare.

No one has. Some angry person on here is seeing so red, they are not reading what people are saying. They are projecting opinions held by anti-trans people in the general public on to the PPs here that support the arguments of JKR.

They are basically saying if you refuse to say that a trans woman is EXACTLY the same as any other (biologically-born) woman and to allow all trans women into ALL spaces that were traditionally reserved for (biologically born) women, then you are anti-trans. Which is false. Even if you would otherwise support protections for trans women, services for trans women, rights for trans women, happily call them by their chosen names and pronouns etc, they don't care. To them, you must say there are no differences or you are the devil.

PP, not only do you have to say it, you must truly believe it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^do you agree that trans people should only be allowed to receive healthcare based on their biological sex or not? If you agree with that and you support providers withholding healthcare from individuals who are trans based on their biological sex, it’s hard to see how you’re pro-trans. You might not be anti-trans but you can’t claim to support trans rights while also being okay with them being denied healthcare.

Pp never said anything about denying healthcare.

No one has. Some angry person on here is seeing so red, they are not reading what people are saying. They are projecting opinions held by anti-trans people in the general public on to the PPs here that support the arguments of JKR.

They are basically saying if you refuse to say that a trans woman is EXACTLY the same as any other (biologically-born) woman and to allow all trans women into ALL spaces that were traditionally reserved for (biologically born) women, then you are anti-trans. Which is false. Even if you would otherwise support protections for trans women, services for trans women, rights for trans women, happily call them by their chosen names and pronouns etc, they don't care. To them, you must say there are no differences or you are the devil.

If that's the case I doubt they will get many supporters of the same thinking...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who cares about menstruation?

I am an XX woman who doesn't menstruate anymore (IUD). I am soooo grateful for that!! LOL. Menstruation sucks. I would love for my DD to get an IUD that stops menstruation when she is a teen.

I have no problem with saying "people who menstruate." As a woman, I have no desire to claim menstruation as some great thing. It's a PITA.

Menstruation could get you killed, being denied education... it is a huge womens issue and f the people who labeled it so flippantly.

+1

This is one of my issues too- menstruation is a big deal for women in many parts of the world. As is the age they start growing breasts. Many women are raped, mutilated, forced into marriage, etc. These are serious women's issues. Not people who menstruate.

“People who menstruate” also grow breasts and get raped/mutilated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Repeat after me: other people’s gender identity is none of my business and I don’t need to police it. It’s literally not up to you decide when a person can or should transition

x1 million

In our society we protect children. They’re not allowed to drink alcohol, smoke cigarettes, get a tattoo, go to a tanning salon. Yet we’re allowing them to surgically alter their bodies and take hormones. A 4000% increase in girls seeking treatment for gender issues is a cause for serious concern. We should be looking at why so many girls want to opt out of womanhood and boys opt out of manhood. It’s not out of line to raise the alarm over this.

Are you raising an alarm or are you trying to tell other people what they can do with their bodies?

Do you have a counter-argument, or are you trying to dodge the question?

What question?

Sounds like you want to tell other people what they can do with their bodies. As a woman who values bodily autonomy, I have a problem with that.

NP here. So...since what is being specifically discussed here is changes to the bodies of minors, do you feel that restrictions on tattoos for minors should be lifted? Restrictions on cigarettes and alcohol for minors?

I think families should work with their doctors to make those decisions. They don't need other people involved in medical decisions.

By that logic, families should be the ones to decide if their children are drinking alcohol and smoking cigarettes and there should be no laws prohibiting this.

Sure. As long as parents go talk to their kids' doctors and ask about the use of alcohol and cigarettes.

Not PP, but thanks for admitting that you don’t care about minors’ health or safety. It’s pretty refreshing.

That’s not what I said at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^do you agree that trans people should only be allowed to receive healthcare based on their biological sex or not? If you agree with that and you support providers withholding healthcare from individuals who are trans based on their biological sex, it’s hard to see how you’re pro-trans. You might not be anti-trans but you can’t claim to support trans rights while also being okay with them being denied healthcare.

Pp never said anything about denying healthcare.

No one has. Some angry person on here is seeing so red, they are not reading what people are saying. They are projecting opinions held by anti-trans people in the general public on to the PPs here that support the arguments of JKR.

They are basically saying if you refuse to say that a trans woman is EXACTLY the same as any other (biologically-born) woman and to allow all trans women into ALL spaces that were traditionally reserved for (biologically born) women, then you are anti-trans. Which is false. Even if you would otherwise support protections for trans women, services for trans women, rights for trans women, happily call them by their chosen names and pronouns etc, they don't care. To them, you must say there are no differences or you are the devil.

Nobody said that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Repeat after me: other people’s gender identity is none of my business and I don’t need to police it. It’s literally not up to you decide when a person can or should transition

x1 million

In our society we protect children. They’re not allowed to drink alcohol, smoke cigarettes, get a tattoo, go to a tanning salon. Yet we’re allowing them to surgically alter their bodies and take hormones. A 4000% increase in girls seeking treatment for gender issues is a cause for serious concern. We should be looking at why so many girls want to opt out of womanhood and boys opt out of manhood. It’s not out of line to raise the alarm over this.

Are you raising an alarm or are you trying to tell other people what they can do with their bodies?

Do you have a counter-argument, or are you trying to dodge the question?

What question?

Sounds like you want to tell other people what they can do with their bodies. As a woman who values bodily autonomy, I have a problem with that.

NP here. So...since what is being specifically discussed here is changes to the bodies of minors, do you feel that restrictions on tattoos for minors should be lifted? Restrictions on cigarettes and alcohol for minors?

I think families should work with their doctors to make those decisions. They don't need other people involved in medical decisions.

By that logic, families should be the ones to decide if their children are drinking alcohol and smoking cigarettes and there should be no laws prohibiting this.

Sure. As long as parents go talk to their kids' doctors and ask about the use of alcohol and cigarettes.

Not PP, but thanks for admitting that you don’t care about minors’ health or safety. It’s pretty refreshing.

That’s not what I said at all.

DP. Yes it was.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Repeat after me: other people’s gender identity is none of my business and I don’t need to police it. It’s literally not up to you decide when a person can or should transition

x1 million

In our society we protect children. They’re not allowed to drink alcohol, smoke cigarettes, get a tattoo, go to a tanning salon. Yet we’re allowing them to surgically alter their bodies and take hormones. A 4000% increase in girls seeking treatment for gender issues is a cause for serious concern. We should be looking at why so many girls want to opt out of womanhood and boys opt out of manhood. It’s not out of line to raise the alarm over this.

Are you raising an alarm or are you trying to tell other people what they can do with their bodies?

Do you have a counter-argument, or are you trying to dodge the question?

What question?

Sounds like you want to tell other people what they can do with their bodies. As a woman who values bodily autonomy, I have a problem with that.

NP here. So...since what is being specifically discussed here is changes to the bodies of minors, do you feel that restrictions on tattoos for minors should be lifted? Restrictions on cigarettes and alcohol for minors?

I think families should work with their doctors to make those decisions. They don't need other people involved in medical decisions.

By that logic, families should be the ones to decide if their children are drinking alcohol and smoking cigarettes and there should be no laws prohibiting this.

Sure. As long as parents go talk to their kids' doctors and ask about the use of alcohol and cigarettes.

Not PP, but thanks for admitting that you don’t care about minors’ health or safety. It’s pretty refreshing.

That’s not what I said at all.

You said as long as parents talk to a doctor first, children should be allowed to do physically harmful things like smoking and drinking. You agreed that there should be no laws prohibiting children from doing these things.

[Anonymous]

Do we know the potential long term effects for hormone treatments in adolescence?

Do we know the potential long-term effects for infertility medications/treatments? New cancer treatments? New coronavirus vaccines/treatments?

Patients work with the doctors to weigh treatment risks for all sorts of serious medical issues.

Why focus on this particular one?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Repeat after me: other people’s gender identity is none of my business and I don’t need to police it. It’s literally not up to you decide when a person can or should transition

x1 million

In our society we protect children. They’re not allowed to drink alcohol, smoke cigarettes, get a tattoo, go to a tanning salon. Yet we’re allowing them to surgically alter their bodies and take hormones. A 4000% increase in girls seeking treatment for gender issues is a cause for serious concern. We should be looking at why so many girls want to opt out of womanhood and boys opt out of manhood. It’s not out of line to raise the alarm over this.

Are you raising an alarm or are you trying to tell other people what they can do with their bodies?

Do you have a counter-argument, or are you trying to dodge the question?

What question?

Sounds like you want to tell other people what they can do with their bodies. As a woman who values bodily autonomy, I have a problem with that.

NP here. So...since what is being specifically discussed here is changes to the bodies of minors, do you feel that restrictions on tattoos for minors should be lifted? Restrictions on cigarettes and alcohol for minors?

I think families should work with their doctors to make those decisions. They don't need other people involved in medical decisions.

By that logic, families should be the ones to decide if their children are drinking alcohol and smoking cigarettes and there should be no laws prohibiting this.

Sure. As long as parents go talk to their kids' doctors and ask about the use of alcohol and cigarettes.

Not PP, but thanks for admitting that you don’t care about minors’ health or safety. It’s pretty refreshing.

That’s not what I said at all.

You said as long as parents talk to a doctor first, children should be allowed to do physically harmful things like smoking and drinking. You agreed that there should be no laws prohibiting children from doing these things.

I said I’d be ok with no laws if they were required to get doctors approval first.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Do we know the potential long term effects for hormone treatments in adolescence?

Do we know the potential long-term effects for infertility medications/treatments? New cancer treatments? New coronavirus vaccines/treatments?

Patients work with the doctors to weigh treatment risks for all sorts of serious medical issues.

Why focus on this particular one?

Because these are children. And because doctors are influenced by social pressure. And doctors have been influenced by social pressure here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Repeat after me: other people’s gender identity is none of my business and I don’t need to police it. It’s literally not up to you decide when a person can or should transition

x1 million

In our society we protect children. They’re not allowed to drink alcohol, smoke cigarettes, get a tattoo, go to a tanning salon. Yet we’re allowing them to surgically alter their bodies and take hormones. A 4000% increase in girls seeking treatment for gender issues is a cause for serious concern. We should be looking at why so many girls want to opt out of womanhood and boys opt out of manhood. It’s not out of line to raise the alarm over this.

You’re very misinformed. Most teens who transition do not have any type of surgery. The medication they take essentially puts hormonal development “on pause” to allow them time to transition or, if necessary, transition back if they decide to do that. Coming off the medication would continue development as usual. They’re not “opting out” of anything - they are opting into living life that is true to who they are. your faux concern is way off base.

The drugs used to “pause” puberty are not without harm. They can cause a lifetime of issues related to bone loss, including brittle bones and painful joints. https://khn.org/news/women-fear-drug-they-used-to-halt-puberty-led-to-health-problems/

There are minors getting hormones and “top surgery”. They’re being given medications rather than the mental heath care they really need. Here’s one psychiatrist’s story. https://quillette.com/2017/10/06/misunderstanding-new-kind-gender-dysphoria/

Look at Jazz Jennings, arguably the poster child for transitioning as a minor. At the age of 19, Jazz has never experienced an orgasm. She has a vagina which has to be dilated daily, which allows her to participate in a sex act she won’t derive pleasure from. She’s been sterilized. She’ll never have children of her own. All this because at the age of 2, she was a little boy who liked dresses and the color purple, and some say was emulating a beloved older sister.

When I saw the episode on Jazz where she says she has never experienced an orgasm, doesn't experience sexual pleasure, and didn't have enough penile material because of the puberty blockers to surgical transition so they had to use parts of the lining in her stomach it really changed my view on puberty blockers. Add to that she is permanantly sterile. It just sadden me to think that this is this is an acceptable solution for a teenager. I wish her the best and hope she really is happy in her new body, but to give up sexual pleasure when you have t ever felt any is just so tragic. I can't picture allowing my 11 year old (the age she started puberty blockers) to make the same decision.

[Anonymous]

NP. I agree with some of JKRs thoughts. But the bathroom hang up...
1. Women’s restrooms have stalls. No one is seeing you pee.
2. If a man Is intent on raping a woman, he will find a way. Pretending to be trans is unlikely to be the way to get access to women - but it could be. But this issue is rape - not pretending to be trans. This is a red herring. It has nothing to do with trans rights.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^do you agree that trans people should only be allowed to receive healthcare based on their biological sex or not? If you agree with that and you support providers withholding healthcare from individuals who are trans based on their biological sex, it’s hard to see how you’re pro-trans. You might not be anti-trans but you can’t claim to support trans rights while also being okay with them being denied healthcare.

Pp never said anything about denying healthcare.

No one has. Some angry person on here is seeing so red, they are not reading what people are saying. They are projecting opinions held by anti-trans people in the general public on to the PPs here that support the arguments of JKR.

They are basically saying if you refuse to say that a trans woman is EXACTLY the same as any other (biologically-born) woman and to allow all trans women into ALL spaces that were traditionally reserved for (biologically born) women, then you are anti-trans. Which is false. Even if you would otherwise support protections for trans women, services for trans women, rights for trans women, happily call them by their chosen names and pronouns etc, they don't care. To them, you must say there are no differences or you are the devil.

Nobody said that.

Then I suggest you go back and reread this thread. PP just summed up exactly what a lot of those trans activists are saying. There is no wiggle room here. You either support 100% or you are anti trans.