Au Pair just asked for more money

[Anonymous]

Kill the AP program - but also the many of you in DC relying on undocumented labor - that needs to stop. You should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law - and be required to pay back taxes. Stop exploiting undocumented labor and own up to your crimes! Clink-clink!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That’s admirable. To my surprise, I discovered that this would be our first ever domestic workers bill of rights. Once it’s hopefully passed, we need to make sure states don’t enforce exemptions or exclude au pairs (as in MD/VA) and live in nannies. MA is the gold standard and DC is progressive enough to head straight there. That still leaves the issue of affordable childcare more broadly and with so many Americans requiring good work, one would think we could up our investment in government-sponsored quality childcare or some type of PPP.

more details here:
https://www.harris.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/ONE%20PAGER%20National%20Domestic%20Workers%20Bill%20of%20Rights.pdf
https://www.harris.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Domestic%20Workers%20Bill%20of%20Rights%20Summary.pdf[/quote

Thank you, this is the minimum!

Absolutely - but let's be real ----noooone of us care about affordable childcare. Women shouldn't have children if they don't stay home and raise them. Screw them - they are just taking jobs they don't deserve from men or BIPOC women without kids.

[Anonymous]

This board appears to have been taken over by loonies calling people names and undeserved epithets. There are even insults flying to direct quotes from the DoL and similar. Good work everyone, but as sadly almost always, that tends to happen on dcum recently. Completely useless but tedious loonies, so I’m leaving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have been following this thread. Is it legal to hire an American to watch your children but pay less than minimum wage? If you let them live in your in law suite or finished basement and provided food and a car?

There just seems like nothing between an AP and a nanny, which is out of reach for many.

Yes, it is legal to deduct room and board from a live-in nanny depending on the specifics of the arrangement. But good luck finding an American who will accept the position.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both of my former au pairs were definitely here to meet husbands. Both got married right after (well, one technically was before) finishing the program. Both are very happy with their husbands - one is pregnant now.

TBF I think this was the real purpose of the program. There were waaaay too many young women after WWII in Europe with worse prospects of marrying because of the massive casualties among men their age.

Except the program didn't begin in the US until 1989.

That was, obviously, not the first iteration of the program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been following this thread. Is it legal to hire an American to watch your children but pay less than minimum wage? If you let them live in your in law suite or finished basement and provided food and a car?

There just seems like nothing between an AP and a nanny, which is out of reach for many.

Yes, because in that scenario you would be deducting the cost of room, board, and transportation- that’s thousands of dollars per year.

No, DoL allows deduction of $77/wk max: $35 for room. Kamala Harris Bill is pending that should put stop
to abuses. https://www.harris.senate.gov/news/press-releases/harris-jayapal-announce-domestic-workers-bill-of-rights

A live-in nanny should receive the same rate of pay you would consider for a live-out caregiver. The fact that they receive room and board shouldn’t lessen their pay.

According to the International Nanny Association’s 2017 Salary and Benefits Survey, the national average hourly rate for a full-time nanny is $19.14/hour. There wasn’t much difference in pay rate for live-in and live-out employees.

Live-in nannies are considered hourly workers and need to be paid the highest applicable minimum wage of the federal, state, and local rates.

As mentioned, they are paid for all hours they’re on duty and “on call.” If your live-in nanny needs to be at your home and isn’t free to leave, then they need to be paid for those hours.

Of course they can leave when they are not on duty. I don’t do curfews and expect my au pair to show up at the agreed time like I do and I do not care what time she comes home as long as she is ready to go at 8 am. How do you possibly justify a deduction of $77/wk? That is ... $308 per month for all living expenses including room and board and food????? I’m sorry but that’s insane. Let’s do the math for the equivalent live out worker.

At $15 hr and 45 hrs a week that is $2700. I assume it costs $850/ mo min for a private room and private bath and all utilities. Let’s assume a low $15/day food budget which is another $450/mo. What do you think car insurance costs for a foreign young person? It cost us an extra $100/mo to add her to our plan so let’s assume that as well. A phone plan can be $30-$50. 20 year old girls do not live without smartphones. Now you are at $1430 per mo for ordinary living expenses. I’m ignoring gas for discretionary purposes but that’s a real cost as well. That is a net $1270/ mo or $317/wk. that doesn’t seem unreasonable to me for 45 hrs a week and is specifically what we pay. But $500+ per week mathematically just does not make sense.

This is lawyers trying to do math comparing market rates for wages (au pairs are not the same as nannies trained in childcare getting $25-$30 per hr to schedule little larlo to the max so yes $15 is a market rate) with marginal costs of food / housing etc. The net number does not make sense. In your scenario, any live out worker is basically getting screwed if live in workers get paid the same hourly rate since they pay real market rates for food/housing.

Also, what about au pairs working 20 hours a week? They would be making $1200 a month at those hourly rates and couldn’t afford to live here.

I am all for domestic worker protections. But au pairs are not the same. And I would never, ever charge my au pair for dinners out with the family on the weekend, plane tickets for vacations with the family (and no she does not work), or for weekend outings like going apple picking. That would feel extremely wrong and not be a familial type relationship. And i don’t know if you actually know any au pairs, but mine would be devastated if I told her we were going on vacation without her- she would absolutely feel excluded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been following this thread. Is it legal to hire an American to watch your children but pay less than minimum wage? If you let them live in your in law suite or finished basement and provided food and a car?

There just seems like nothing between an AP and a nanny, which is out of reach for many.

Yes, because in that scenario you would be deducting the cost of room, board, and transportation- that’s thousands of dollars per year.

No, DoL allows deduction of $77/wk max: $35 for room. Kamala Harris Bill is pending that should put stop
to abuses. https://www.harris.senate.gov/news/press-releases/harris-jayapal-announce-domestic-workers-bill-of-rights

A live-in nanny should receive the same rate of pay you would consider for a live-out caregiver. The fact that they receive room and board shouldn’t lessen their pay.

According to the International Nanny Association’s 2017 Salary and Benefits Survey, the national average hourly rate for a full-time nanny is $19.14/hour. There wasn’t much difference in pay rate for live-in and live-out employees.

Live-in nannies are considered hourly workers and need to be paid the highest applicable minimum wage of the federal, state, and local rates.

As mentioned, they are paid for all hours they’re on duty and “on call.” If your live-in nanny needs to be at your home and isn’t free to leave, then they need to be paid for those hours.

You are smoking something great, clearly. Room and board is a benefit and the nanny is taxed on the benefit as income....so of course it is part of a compensation package. Nannies are free to leave when they are not working....crazy!

Why should a live in nanny be paid the same as a live out nanny?? An apartment would cost at least 1k

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I pay my cleaner $200 per week for a for few hours of work plus required benefits plus bonuses etc. Is this a joke? What decade do you people live in?

Parents that hire au pairs are 90+% Trumpist dopes and religious zealots who think these immigrant gals should be thankful to be part of a proper American family. Nevermind that inevitably that means a crap family with neglectful, lazy, and often though not always racist DH and DW. They think that $200 week is Christian generosity because they let her sleep in the basement.

Somehow the pudgy middle aged white dads always seem to be on board, though.

Wow, this is oddly specific. Did this happen to you? By the way, generalizations work both ways and mean generalizations can be made about au pairs too. Probably better not to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been following this thread. Is it legal to hire an American to watch your children but pay less than minimum wage? If you let them live in your in law suite or finished basement and provided food and a car?

There just seems like nothing between an AP and a nanny, which is out of reach for many.

Yes, it is legal to deduct room and board from a live-in nanny depending on the specifics of the arrangement. But good luck finding an American who will accept the position.

Welcome to the future:

Employers may charge for food, drinks, or housing that they provide to the worker, but only if the employee voluntarily accepts these for his or her own benefit and the following conditions are met:

Food and drinks - Deductions are allowed only if the worker can bring, prepare, store, and eat and drink the foods s/he prefers. If the worker cannot do so because of household dietary restrictions, then the employer may not charge for the food or drink provided to the worker. The employer may charge for the actual cost of the food and drink, up to $1.50 for breakfast and $2.25 for lunch or dinner.
The employer may not make deductions unless the worker agrees voluntarily to these deductions in writing in a language the worker easily understands. The agreement must be made before any deductions are made.

Housing - An employer must not deduct the cost of a room or other housing if the employer requires the worker to live in that place. An employer may deduct the cost of housing only if the worker chooses to live there and the housing meets the local and state health code standards for heat, water, and light. The employer must not charge more than: $35 a week for a room with 1 person; $30 a week for a room with 2 people; or $25 a week for a room with 3 or more people. The employer may not make deductions unless the worker agrees voluntarily to these deductions in writing in a language the worker easily understands. The agreement must be made before any deductions are made.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is quite shocking, since we are talking about a minimum wage and/or a number of hours that allow for meaningful education/cultural exchange. 45 hrs/wk leaves little free time. $4.35/hr is a pittance, it’s barely over half a federal minimum which is incredibly low, a third or less of DMV state minimum. That is after 40% is taken off for room and board where only $77 per week max is allowed (nearly a double is taken out by these families each week). I paid au pairs $12/hr over a decade ago. How come no one hosting has said hey maybe I should take another look instead of just swinging at any fair wage advocates? The reality is: at MA standard, au pair is a cultural exchange program with significant differences and benefits (depending what you want) from other live in childcare and is still very considerably cheaper to allow for the cultural exchange and educational aspect!

So now, I ask myself, if I’m an au pair, maybe I’m ok with it, even happy, since I’ve got a J1 (many unmarried young women are rejected for tourist visas routinely) and an experience. But if I’m now told that’s a fraction of a federal minimum and even smaller fraction of a state minimum, you should get 2-3x that and the same other benefits, I’d say no, that’s a terrible idea?! No, I’d say, thank you — no one, not the agency, not my host family, not the other au pairs told me that, but that’s even better! And it’s the only fair thing and you all know it. I know that as a host family we would be very happy to comply.

It is pointless to debate further, but at least we’ve learned people in one of the wealthiest parts of the world, who have no reason not to, will still not do the right thing without the legislation. The legislation is pending, so let’s write to our reps and make sure it happens. Thank you, Mrs. Vice President for introducing the bill in the Congress, and the Supreme Court for rejecting you hear the appeal to the MA ruling. We are a step closer to correcting some historical injustices.

Since when does 45 hours leave little free time?! Most Americans work at least 40 hours, and with a commute, most are out of the house for work over 45 hours. An AP’s commute is several yards, from their bed to their bedroom door!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Activists scored a victory in June when the Supreme Court declined to hear a challenge to a ruling that requires au pairs in Massachusetts to be paid the state’s minimum wage of $12.75 an hour. That thrilled pressure groups like the National Domestic Workers Alliance, which are now multiplying suits against the programme. Expect fireworks.

It will be a big loss of the program shuts down.

No. It will simply mean that you can no longer use young women/men as indentured servants. It is an evil program and should have been done awsy with decades ago. If you can't afford child care than don't have children!

Your racism and misogyny is duly noted.

You need professional help.

Nope, just pointing out your BS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP above for $40K why not hire a nanny?

Because a nanny would be more expensive. They already said that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We host and have a new aupair coming this week from Mexico. We don’t pay over the stipend. We’ve never hosted an impoverished aupair. Most of our aupairs come from well off families. If our aupair wasn’t engaging with our kids, she wouldn’t be our aupair long.

Please review what you said — it’s because you have the upper hand. It doesn’t matter what type of family they come from — they all deserve a fair treatment and cultural exchange. Sadly, there is abuse. A couple in the UK starved and murdered their French ap. That is an extreme but redolent of a power imbalance that allowed it to happen, even to a French middle class girl in the EU. So I wouldn’t underestimate the one-sided power balance of this relationship.

I do feel for the families who describe treating their aps well and being in it for the spirit of the program when they say they couldn’t afford the MA pricing. Perhaps a middle ground could be found with fewer hours, so enforce MA rules, but families and aps can negotiate fewer hours, more education, all in the spirit of cultural exchange. Agencies in MA had to return/pay part of families’ fees too.

Even while empathizing with well meaning families, it is hard to accept as legitimate the building in of a portion of family vacation expenses as less discretionary spending (instead of taking ap on 4 vacations, it sounds like going on 2 would allow fair pay). It would be similar to serving caviar or truffles because you like it, having the au pair partake because it’s fun and a different cultural experience, but then charging $30 instead of DoL mandated $2.25 per diner deduction.

But it wouldn’t be far and equal treatment. The point is that it’s a cultural exchange program. “Au pair” literally translates to “at peer,” or equal.

Oh, and the US is already protecting APs more than other countries. Here, there are LCCs and agencies who step in to help, and there are federal maximums.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:AuPairWorld recommends that au pairs be given the day off on public holidays such as Memorial Day, 4th of July, Labor Day, Thanksgiving, Christmas, NYD, and MLK Day. This is in addition to their vacation days. Unless of course both parents must work on a national holiday.

Most don’t care about any of those except Christmas (if Christian/European) and New Years. Those are our holidays, not theirs.

[Anonymous]

One of my good friends used this program as an escape. He’s gay and from Brazil, not a good combo. He came with the express intention of finding a husband, and he did. He finished his year, signed on for an extension while they worked out the details, then they got married the day after his extension.