Possible legal challenge against TJ lottery

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That old case doesn't invalidate all lotteries. It invalidated a lottery used over 20 years ago that was expressly race-weighted, which the TJ proposal is not.

OP sounds like a moron who just wants to keep the deck stacked in favor of people who pay to play by enrolling their kids in test prep centers with special access to exam questions.

Courts always look at old judgments ..

Can we send Athletes to Olympics with no prep ? if you want Gold medal, yes you need dedication, skill and prep

Why dont FCPS start another STEM program at different low rated high school with TJ Principal and some staff ? so access to more students and improves diversity too.

I don't know who needs to hear this, but the fact that lots of families in this area see admission to TJ as equivalent to an Olympic Gold medal, or an NBA roster spot, or even a high school team roster spot is maybe the best argument for why TJ is the toxic environment that it is, and that it needs to fundamentally change.

How should these families change and what are the suggestions. Everyone does what they like to do, if getting to TJ is like getting gold medal for them they are working on it and earning it. Not everyone who preps gets in also. Having another magnet is a good idea.

they're free to prep and strive and do what they want. The county decided they wanted to give kids who didn't have those opportunities a chance so they designed a system to distribute TJ slots more widely

Why dont the county distribute TJ slots with no lottery ? Kids should not feel they are unlucky ..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That old case doesn't invalidate all lotteries. It invalidated a lottery used over 20 years ago that was expressly race-weighted, which the TJ proposal is not.

OP sounds like a moron who just wants to keep the deck stacked in favor of people who pay to play by enrolling their kids in test prep centers with special access to exam questions.

Disparate impact applies. The new anti affirmative action judges in edva and 4th circuit are salivating to strike down affirmative action or use of race in admissions or cases with disparate impact.

An unweighted lottery isn't affirmative action, its a lottery. It is literally as far away as you can legally get from affirmative action.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That old case doesn't invalidate all lotteries. It invalidated a lottery used over 20 years ago that was expressly race-weighted, which the TJ proposal is not.

OP sounds like a moron who just wants to keep the deck stacked in favor of people who pay to play by enrolling their kids in test prep centers with special access to exam questions.

Disparate impact applies. The new anti affirmative action judges in edva and 4th circuit are salivating to strike down affirmative action or use of race in admissions or cases with disparate impact.

An unweighted lottery isn't affirmative action, its a lottery. It is literally as far away as you can legally get from affirmative action.

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That old case doesn't invalidate all lotteries. It invalidated a lottery used over 20 years ago that was expressly race-weighted, which the TJ proposal is not.

OP sounds like a moron who just wants to keep the deck stacked in favor of people who pay to play by enrolling their kids in test prep centers with special access to exam questions.

Courts always look at old judgments ..

Can we send Athletes to Olympics with no prep ? if you want Gold medal, yes you need dedication, skill and prep

Why dont FCPS start another STEM program at different low rated high school with TJ Principal and some staff ? so access to more students and improves diversity too.

I don't know who needs to hear this, but the fact that lots of families in this area see admission to TJ as equivalent to an Olympic Gold medal, or an NBA roster spot, or even a high school team roster spot is maybe the best argument for why TJ is the toxic environment that it is, and that it needs to fundamentally change.

How should these families change and what are the suggestions. Everyone does what they like to do, if getting to TJ is like getting gold medal for them they are working on it and earning it. Not everyone who preps gets in also. Having another magnet is a good idea.

they're free to prep and strive and do what they want. The county decided they wanted to give kids who didn't have those opportunities a chance so they designed a system to distribute TJ slots more widely

And it will be struck down by a conservative judge or conservative court after fcps wastes millions of tax payer money.

still waiting for a single case cite with a relevant holding

There are too many cases so you can just google. You don’t even need Lexis or Westlaw.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That old case doesn't invalidate all lotteries. It invalidated a lottery used over 20 years ago that was expressly race-weighted, which the TJ proposal is not.

OP sounds like a moron who just wants to keep the deck stacked in favor of people who pay to play by enrolling their kids in test prep centers with special access to exam questions.

Courts always look at old judgments ..

Can we send Athletes to Olympics with no prep ? if you want Gold medal, yes you need dedication, skill and prep

Why dont FCPS start another STEM program at different low rated high school with TJ Principal and some staff ? so access to more students and improves diversity too.

I don't know who needs to hear this, but the fact that lots of families in this area see admission to TJ as equivalent to an Olympic Gold medal, or an NBA roster spot, or even a high school team roster spot is maybe the best argument for why TJ is the toxic environment that it is, and that it needs to fundamentally change.

How should these families change and what are the suggestions. Everyone does what they like to do, if getting to TJ is like getting gold medal for them they are working on it and earning it. Not everyone who preps gets in also. Having another magnet is a good idea.

they're free to prep and strive and do what they want. The county decided they wanted to give kids who didn't have those opportunities a chance so they designed a system to distribute TJ slots more widely

And it will be struck down by a conservative judge or conservative court after fcps wastes millions of tax payer money.

still waiting for a single case cite with a relevant holding

There are too many cases so you can just google. You don’t even need Lexis or Westlaw.

Or a firm grasp of reality.....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asked in another thread.... What exactly is the legal rationale for challenging the lottery system?

there isn't one. No group has an intrinsic right to a certain number of seats at a school. A suit against tj going to a lottery would fare about as well as white parents calling desegregation race based discrimination

In your wet dream. Just wait a year or two.

the sense of entitlement is hilarious. No one in public school is guaranteed a TJ level education, if you want to ensure you kids gets it, pay for a comparable private

This sentiment swings both ways.

which leaves the elected board to make the decision as long as they do so within legal confines- a race blind lottery fits that description

What is the difference between a race blind (all students) lottery and merit ( 3.5 GPA is merit or average ) lottery ? 70 to 80% of students will have 3.5 GPA. 14,000 to 17,000 students will apply for lottery admission (below 5% acceptance rate).. How will parents ever explain to a child why they were not chosen and another child with lower GPA? This proposal is outrageous and unfair. The loser can be from any race , teased for having higher GPA .. but he thinks bad in his entire life. Do you think the another kid who won lotter would be happy and self respect ?

Please think .. come up with better solution ..

bad and ill-conceived is not the same as illegal. If you don't like the plan, run for school board next time around or volunteer on a campaign

Hate to break it to you but it is also clearly illegal.

Lots of schools around the country have magnet school lotteries, including DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That old case doesn't invalidate all lotteries. It invalidated a lottery used over 20 years ago that was expressly race-weighted, which the TJ proposal is not.

OP sounds like a moron who just wants to keep the deck stacked in favor of people who pay to play by enrolling their kids in test prep centers with special access to exam questions.

Courts always look at old judgments ..

Can we send Athletes to Olympics with no prep ? if you want Gold medal, yes you need dedication, skill and prep

Why dont FCPS start another STEM program at different low rated high school with TJ Principal and some staff ? so access to more students and improves diversity too.

I don't know who needs to hear this, but the fact that lots of families in this area see admission to TJ as equivalent to an Olympic Gold medal, or an NBA roster spot, or even a high school team roster spot is maybe the best argument for why TJ is the toxic environment that it is, and that it needs to fundamentally change.

How should these families change and what are the suggestions. Everyone does what they like to do, if getting to TJ is like getting gold medal for them they are working on it and earning it. Not everyone who preps gets in also. Having another magnet is a good idea.

they're free to prep and strive and do what they want. The county decided they wanted to give kids who didn't have those opportunities a chance so they designed a system to distribute TJ slots more widely

And it will be struck down by a conservative judge or conservative court after fcps wastes millions of tax payer money.

still waiting for a single case cite with a relevant holding

There are too many cases so you can just google. You don’t even need Lexis or Westlaw.

It's like Trump when he was asked his favorite Bible verse. "There are so many....."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That old case doesn't invalidate all lotteries. It invalidated a lottery used over 20 years ago that was expressly race-weighted, which the TJ proposal is not.

OP sounds like a moron who just wants to keep the deck stacked in favor of people who pay to play by enrolling their kids in test prep centers with special access to exam questions.

Courts always look at old judgments ..

Can we send Athletes to Olympics with no prep ? if you want Gold medal, yes you need dedication, skill and prep

Why dont FCPS start another STEM program at different low rated high school with TJ Principal and some staff ? so access to more students and improves diversity too.

I don't know who needs to hear this, but the fact that lots of families in this area see admission to TJ as equivalent to an Olympic Gold medal, or an NBA roster spot, or even a high school team roster spot is maybe the best argument for why TJ is the toxic environment that it is, and that it needs to fundamentally change.

How should these families change and what are the suggestions. Everyone does what they like to do, if getting to TJ is like getting gold medal for them they are working on it and earning it. Not everyone who preps gets in also. Having another magnet is a good idea.

they're free to prep and strive and do what they want. The county decided they wanted to give kids who didn't have those opportunities a chance so they designed a system to distribute TJ slots more widely

And it will be struck down by a conservative judge or conservative court after fcps wastes millions of tax payer money.

No, it won't. Such a ruling would completely throw charter schools into disarray because this is how many of them select their students, and conservatives are relentless advocates of school choice.

And charter schools are not being attacked for disparate impact especially one designed to boost certain racial groups and reduce the number of another racial group. Nice try.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That old case doesn't invalidate all lotteries. It invalidated a lottery used over 20 years ago that was expressly race-weighted, which the TJ proposal is not.

OP sounds like a moron who just wants to keep the deck stacked in favor of people who pay to play by enrolling their kids in test prep centers with special access to exam questions.

Courts always look at old judgments ..

Can we send Athletes to Olympics with no prep ? if you want Gold medal, yes you need dedication, skill and prep

Why dont FCPS start another STEM program at different low rated high school with TJ Principal and some staff ? so access to more students and improves diversity too.

I don't know who needs to hear this, but the fact that lots of families in this area see admission to TJ as equivalent to an Olympic Gold medal, or an NBA roster spot, or even a high school team roster spot is maybe the best argument for why TJ is the toxic environment that it is, and that it needs to fundamentally change.

How should these families change and what are the suggestions. Everyone does what they like to do, if getting to TJ is like getting gold medal for them they are working on it and earning it. Not everyone who preps gets in also. Having another magnet is a good idea.

they're free to prep and strive and do what they want. The county decided they wanted to give kids who didn't have those opportunities a chance so they designed a system to distribute TJ slots more widely

And it will be struck down by a conservative judge or conservative court after fcps wastes millions of tax payer money.

still waiting for a single case cite with a relevant holding

There are too many cases so you can just google. You don’t even need Lexis or Westlaw.

the is should be easy to find one - that's all I'm asking. I think you're full of it and can't even come up with a single case. You just have some vague notion of how conservative judges act, but you can actually cite to any cases where they have acted in such a manner

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That old case doesn't invalidate all lotteries. It invalidated a lottery used over 20 years ago that was expressly race-weighted, which the TJ proposal is not.

OP sounds like a moron who just wants to keep the deck stacked in favor of people who pay to play by enrolling their kids in test prep centers with special access to exam questions.

Disparate impact applies. The new anti affirmative action judges in edva and 4th circuit are salivating to strike down affirmative action or use of race in admissions or cases with disparate impact.

An unweighted lottery isn't affirmative action, its a lottery. It is literally as far away as you can legally get from affirmative action.

You conveniently ignore the last part of the posting. Learn to read English.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clearly the OP didn't read the article or the judicial opinion on the case that was posted. A lottery based system for magnet schools, in and of itself, is not unconstitutional. Using race as the primary criteria is the issue. FCPS is not doing that in the lottery system they would like to implement. The first threshold is the GPA requirement, then they implement the Region-based quota--the actual proxy for race consideration--and then they will figure out a way to handle the lottery aspect of the final pool accepted. Now if there are no Hispanic or Africian Americans in the Region capable of meeting the 3.5 GPA, FCPS will have the same issue it currently has, but I assume certain schools will be told to bolster grade point averages for students in order to qualify more URM students for the lottery. Whether or not teachers or Administrators do this will depend on their ethical standards. But the plan will withstand legal challenges because it doesn't inherently favor one race over the other in an in-your-face way. It's more subtle than that.

Imagine being racist enough to believe this. Good grief. This is just horrendous.

I'm not the poster who made the original posting, but I totally think the poster has a point, without being a racist. In order to get the URM percentage higher while you're maintaining a minimum threshold GPA, you've got to first understand that there are sufficient pool of candidates. My assumption, however, is that FCPS already looked into this and set the threshold at 3.5 GPA after diving into some data and knowing that this threshold will have a good size URM pool. Not everything noted has to have a racist undertone. We have to get better at taking critical feedback without assuming it's 'racist'.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clearly the OP didn't read the article or the judicial opinion on the case that was posted. A lottery based system for magnet schools, in and of itself, is not unconstitutional. Using race as the primary criteria is the issue. FCPS is not doing that in the lottery system they would like to implement. The first threshold is the GPA requirement, then they implement the Region-based quota--the actual proxy for race consideration--and then they will figure out a way to handle the lottery aspect of the final pool accepted. Now if there are no Hispanic or Africian Americans in the Region capable of meeting the 3.5 GPA, FCPS will have the same issue it currently has, but I assume certain schools will be told to bolster grade point averages for students in order to qualify more URM students for the lottery. Whether or not teachers or Administrators do this will depend on their ethical standards. But the plan will withstand legal challenges because it doesn't inherently favor one race over the other in an in-your-face way. It's more subtle than that.

Imagine being racist enough to believe this. Good grief. This is just horrendous.

I'm not the poster who made the original posting, but I totally think the poster has a point, without being a racist. In order to get the URM percentage higher while you're maintaining a minimum threshold GPA, you've got to first understand that there are sufficient pool of candidates. My assumption, however, is that FCPS already looked into this and set the threshold at 3.5 GPA after diving into some data and knowing that this threshold will have a good size URM pool. Not everything noted has to have a racist undertone. We have to get better at taking critical feedback without assuming it's 'racist'.

Another point further supporting disparate impact being used to strike down the new system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clearly the OP didn't read the article or the judicial opinion on the case that was posted. A lottery based system for magnet schools, in and of itself, is not unconstitutional. Using race as the primary criteria is the issue. FCPS is not doing that in the lottery system they would like to implement. The first threshold is the GPA requirement, then they implement the Region-based quota--the actual proxy for race consideration--and then they will figure out a way to handle the lottery aspect of the final pool accepted. Now if there are no Hispanic or Africian Americans in the Region capable of meeting the 3.5 GPA, FCPS will have the same issue it currently has, but I assume certain schools will be told to bolster grade point averages for students in order to qualify more URM students for the lottery. Whether or not teachers or Administrators do this will depend on their ethical standards. But the plan will withstand legal challenges because it doesn't inherently favor one race over the other in an in-your-face way. It's more subtle than that.

Imagine being racist enough to believe this. Good grief. This is just horrendous.

I'm not the poster who made the original posting, but I totally think the poster has a point, without being a racist. In order to get the URM percentage higher while you're maintaining a minimum threshold GPA, you've got to first understand that there are sufficient pool of candidates. My assumption, however, is that FCPS already looked into this and set the threshold at 3.5 GPA after diving into some data and knowing that this threshold will have a good size URM pool. Not everything noted has to have a racist undertone. We have to get better at taking critical feedback without assuming it's 'racist'.

Another point further supporting disparate impact being used to strike down the new system.

do you have any case to cite - or is this just more assumption about what desperate impact actually means

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clearly the OP didn't read the article or the judicial opinion on the case that was posted. A lottery based system for magnet schools, in and of itself, is not unconstitutional. Using race as the primary criteria is the issue. FCPS is not doing that in the lottery system they would like to implement. The first threshold is the GPA requirement, then they implement the Region-based quota--the actual proxy for race consideration--and then they will figure out a way to handle the lottery aspect of the final pool accepted. Now if there are no Hispanic or Africian Americans in the Region capable of meeting the 3.5 GPA, FCPS will have the same issue it currently has, but I assume certain schools will be told to bolster grade point averages for students in order to qualify more URM students for the lottery. Whether or not teachers or Administrators do this will depend on their ethical standards. But the plan will withstand legal challenges because it doesn't inherently favor one race over the other in an in-your-face way. It's more subtle than that.

Imagine being racist enough to believe this. Good grief. This is just horrendous.

I'm not the poster who made the original posting, but I totally think the poster has a point, without being a racist. In order to get the URM percentage higher while you're maintaining a minimum threshold GPA, you've got to first understand that there are sufficient pool of candidates. My assumption, however, is that FCPS already looked into this and set the threshold at 3.5 GPA after diving into some data and knowing that this threshold will have a good size URM pool. Not everything noted has to have a racist undertone. We have to get better at taking critical feedback without assuming it's 'racist'.

Another point further supporting disparate impact being used to strike down the new system.

do you have any case to cite - or is this just more assumption about what desperate impact actually means

You may be desperate but the legal rationale is a disparate impact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clearly the OP didn't read the article or the judicial opinion on the case that was posted. A lottery based system for magnet schools, in and of itself, is not unconstitutional. Using race as the primary criteria is the issue. FCPS is not doing that in the lottery system they would like to implement. The first threshold is the GPA requirement, then they implement the Region-based quota--the actual proxy for race consideration--and then they will figure out a way to handle the lottery aspect of the final pool accepted. Now if there are no Hispanic or Africian Americans in the Region capable of meeting the 3.5 GPA, FCPS will have the same issue it currently has, but I assume certain schools will be told to bolster grade point averages for students in order to qualify more URM students for the lottery. Whether or not teachers or Administrators do this will depend on their ethical standards. But the plan will withstand legal challenges because it doesn't inherently favor one race over the other in an in-your-face way. It's more subtle than that.

Imagine being racist enough to believe this. Good grief. This is just horrendous.

I'm not the poster who made the original posting, but I totally think the poster has a point, without being a racist. In order to get the URM percentage higher while you're maintaining a minimum threshold GPA, you've got to first understand that there are sufficient pool of candidates. My assumption, however, is that FCPS already looked into this and set the threshold at 3.5 GPA after diving into some data and knowing that this threshold will have a good size URM pool. Not everything noted has to have a racist undertone. We have to get better at taking critical feedback without assuming it's 'racist'.

Another point further supporting disparate impact being used to strike down the new system.

there's a rationale that you're certain exists- but you can't point to a single case on point?

do you have any case to cite - or is this just more assumption about what desperate impact actually means

You may be desperate but the legal rationale is a disparate impact.