Parents of Asian-American Kids: What did you learn from the college admissions process?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not sure if the anecdotes on here about striving parents are true or just exaggerated - but they are infinitely better than kids left home alone with nothing to do, in truancy, or worse, are involved in break-ins, drugs, in jail or whatever. When first-gen immigrants come here and will not work hard, go on welfare with no effort to improve themselves, that's when I worry.

White parent, and an I absolutely agree and admire 1st gen parents who do this. It’s how I raise my kids, although I have the benefit of being white and not first gen. But we love in a heavily Asian community because it reflect their values.

The one place I think Asian parents are off is that they don’t appreciate how complex and chaotic the Us college admission system is. They think hardest work to best ranked school to best grad school to best job/life, etc. and that makes sense. And would make college admissions easier. And I agree with hardest work. But the US doesn’t have a best college or a ranking of colleges at the undergrad level. Sorry USNWR. Grad school, yes. But not undergrad. The best college depends on what your kid wants to do, what their goal is, how they learn, etc. it’s not necessarily the top of the USNWR chart. For your kid and what they want, it might be a large land grant university in the Midwest. Harvard undergrad kids may not have a better shot at a top law school, med school grad program than kids from Haverford. If what you want is outcomes at age 30, that’s not what USNWR.

When My kid applied, people asked me where he wanted to go, and my answer, having worked with him for years on a long term plan and done a lot of research was: the strongest undergrad mentored science research possible, internships, small size, excellent Biology PhD admissions, and a non-major music program. Their are a handful of college that do this very well. 90% of this board will no have heard of where he ended up. Which is strange, because it’s consistently in the USNWR top 10 to 15 LACs and has close to 100% med school placement with more than half getting their top choice. Hes happy, thriving, has great opportunities and I believe is going to get where he wants to go. He would not have the same opportunities at Harvard or Yale. Sure, they do award winning research— by grad students and post docs. I want my kid to get to the point they are able to be a Harvard or Yale level science. That doesn’t start at Harvard or Yale. Fortune 500 CEO it may well be Ivy or Bust. But not science research, which is where my kid wants to go.

[Anonymous]

Op, this thread is a good example of what's wrong with the approaches taken by many Asian families and why top colleges don't want full of Asian kids. There are ~4000 colleges in US. The "success" threshold for Asian families are (not all but most) are top 10-20 schools... The "Ivy/M/S or Bust" approach is not healthy. If I were an admission officer, I would do my best to mix kids from all SES/racial backgrounds. And I say this as an Asian parent. You see this happening at HS level too as you see here re. TJ posts

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure if the anecdotes on here about striving parents are true or just exaggerated - but they are infinitely better than kids left home alone with nothing to do, in truancy, or worse, are involved in break-ins, drugs, in jail or whatever. When first-gen immigrants come here and will not work hard, go on welfare with no effort to improve themselves, that's when I worry.

White parent, and an I absolutely agree and admire 1st gen parents who do this. It’s how I raise my kids, although I have the benefit of being white and not first gen. But we love in a heavily Asian community because it reflect their values.

The one place I think Asian parents are off is that they don’t appreciate how complex and chaotic the Us college admission system is. They think hardest work to best ranked school to best grad school to best job/life, etc. and that makes sense. And would make college admissions easier. And I agree with hardest work. But the US doesn’t have a best college or a ranking of colleges at the undergrad level. Sorry USNWR. Grad school, yes. But not undergrad. The best college depends on what your kid wants to do, what their goal is, how they learn, etc. it’s not necessarily the top of the USNWR chart. For your kid and what they want, it might be a large land grant university in the Midwest. Harvard undergrad kids may not have a better shot at a top law school, med school grad program than kids from Haverford. If what you want is outcomes at age 30, that’s not what USNWR.

When My kid applied, people asked me where he wanted to go, and my answer, having worked with him for years on a long term plan and done a lot of research was: the strongest undergrad mentored science research possible, internships, small size, excellent Biology PhD admissions, and a non-major music program. Their are a handful of college that do this very well. 90% of this board will no have heard of where he ended up. Which is strange, because it’s consistently in the USNWR top 10 to 15 LACs and has close to 100% med school placement with more than half getting their top choice. Hes happy, thriving, has great opportunities and I believe is going to get where he wants to go. He would not have the same opportunities at Harvard or Yale. Sure, they do award winning research— by grad students and post docs. I want my kid to get to the point they are able to be a Harvard or Yale level science. That doesn’t start at Harvard or Yale. Fortune 500 CEO it may well be Ivy or Bust. But not science research, which is where my kid wants to go.

I’m not sure I fully understand what you’re saying, but I think that some Asians may get too hung up on what I’d call extreme credentialism. Some whites do too, of course! Underlying this must be a notion that obtaining a certain academic credential equates to a successful life. But really, in nova, you can’t underestimate how badly parents want those bragging rights.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure if the anecdotes on here about striving parents are true or just exaggerated - but they are infinitely better than kids left home alone with nothing to do, in truancy, or worse, are involved in break-ins, drugs, in jail or whatever. When first-gen immigrants come here and will not work hard, go on welfare with no effort to improve themselves, that's when I worry.

White parent, and an I absolutely agree and admire 1st gen parents who do this. It’s how I raise my kids, although I have the benefit of being white and not first gen. But we love in a heavily Asian community because it reflect their values.

The one place I think Asian parents are off is that they don’t appreciate how complex and chaotic the Us college admission system is. They think hardest work to best ranked school to best grad school to best job/life, etc. and that makes sense. And would make college admissions easier. And I agree with hardest work. But the US doesn’t have a best college or a ranking of colleges at the undergrad level. Sorry USNWR. Grad school, yes. But not undergrad. The best college depends on what your kid wants to do, what their goal is, how they learn, etc. it’s not necessarily the top of the USNWR chart. For your kid and what they want, it might be a large land grant university in the Midwest. Harvard undergrad kids may not have a better shot at a top law school, med school grad program than kids from Haverford. If what you want is outcomes at age 30, that’s not what USNWR.

When My kid applied, people asked me where he wanted to go, and my answer, having worked with him for years on a long term plan and done a lot of research was: the strongest undergrad mentored science research possible, internships, small size, excellent Biology PhD admissions, and a non-major music program. Their are a handful of college that do this very well. 90% of this board will no have heard of where he ended up. Which is strange, because it’s consistently in the USNWR top 10 to 15 LACs and has close to 100% med school placement with more than half getting their top choice. Hes happy, thriving, has great opportunities and I believe is going to get where he wants to go. He would not have the same opportunities at Harvard or Yale. Sure, they do award winning research— by grad students and post docs. I want my kid to get to the point they are able to be a Harvard or Yale level science. That doesn’t start at Harvard or Yale. Fortune 500 CEO it may well be Ivy or Bust. But not science research, which is where my kid wants to go.

I’m not sure I fully understand what you’re saying, but I think that some Asians may get too hung up on what I’d call extreme credentialism. Some whites do too, of course! Underlying this must be a notion that obtaining a certain academic credential equates to a successful life. But really, in nova, you can’t underestimate how badly parents want those bragging rights.

Just Asians? I can almost understand first gens focused on name brands. The recent college scandal shows white parents aren’t immune from the rat race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the white parent of a TJ kid, and I will tell you what I have seen in action. There are excellent, very well respected schools where your kid will get a great education— even in STEM— and that will place them at the top of the grad school admissions heap. And Asian kids are not applying. Those that do are getting a boost over white girls (girls are also over represented).

For example, Grinnell and Oberlin are both top SLACs. They are also both in the top 5 in science PhD production by graduates. Their science grads consistently get into the top handful of grad programs in their field. They both having phenomenal med school placement. A science kid will go and do hands on published research with a professor for 4 years if they want it and get great internships. Because they aren’t competing with grad students. And a high achieving Asian kid is likely to be considered URM and get half tuition merit aid.

These schools also exist in engineering (but the selection is weaker). Mudd, of course. Rose Hulman. Cooper Union. You have a girl who is interested in international relations? HRC and Madeline Albright went to Wellesley. Have your kid who writes apply to Kenyon.

OTOH, the landscape for UVA, Michigan, Purdue is pretty brutal. For whites too. But it does look like Asian boys take the hardest hit.

From the outside looking in, it seems like Asian parents are overlooking small schools that lack national name recognition, but are very well respected in their fields. Asian kids are being heavily recruited by these schools right now. Look on the the Liberal Arts College side of USNWR instead of national university. Liberal arts doesn’t mean underwater basket weaving, or even humanities. It means no grad school. Which can be a huge benefit to kids who aren’t crowded out by grad students and sitting in huge classes taught by TAs. They get small classes and a lot of access to the full professors.

Anyway. I know you wanted the Asian insight. And I respect that. But from the outside looking in, I’m shocked as to where Asian kids aren’t applying.

Thanks for posting this. Really good perspective. I am open to listening to what we are overlooking. Socially, i would want my kids to go where there are at least some representation of Asian American students. Greek life is not what we are looking for at all.

My kid is actively looking for SLACs with no Greek Life. The midwestern ones (Grinnell, Oberlin, Kenyon, Macalester, St. Olaf) have little or no Greek life. Some of the more Eastern ones Greek is bigger.

From the outside looking in, but talking to a lot of Asian parents about college. it seems like the Asian system of higher education is more tracked. Top scores to top university with a tight ranking system to a top company. So they think top college (Harvard) to top grad school to to job. But the US system is multitracked. You can get to the top grad school and top job several ways. But Asian parents often miss some of the tracks. An Ivy or top 20 will get you there. But you will still be competing heavily for lots because top med schools also want representation. You also can go top SLAC to top medical school. And top SLACs are way over represented because they teach kids to think and write and discuss. And top a OOS U (besides a UC or UVA or UMD) and get there. uT Austin flys under the radar. You will have to hustle for research opportunities, but it is very doable.

I would think the good news for Asians is that there are top schools that will get their kids where they want to go that desperately want talented Asian kids.

DP. Those are some good points. But I think we’re already seeing this with UVA. I’m not aware of a single Asian parent in nova who would be disappointed if their kid went there.

You haven't spoken with TJ crazies.

+1, my neighbor's TJ kid with full SAT score and perfect everything else (leadership, volunteering...) was rejected by top 20 schools and ended up with UVA. The parents were so upset and didn't talk to anyone for months.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:+1, my neighbor's TJ kid with full SAT score and perfect everything else (leadership, volunteering...) was rejected by top 20 schools and ended up with UVA. The parents were so upset and didn't talk to anyone for months.

LOL... my asian kid attended St. Albans school with mediocre grade and SAT. He graduated from an unknown college but it really did not matter. He got a job because one of his high school "buddies" was the SVP at his father's company. My kid is now Senior VP at the company report directly to his high school buddy who is now Executive VP. He is making more money than he knows what to do with it. It's about the connection.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure if the anecdotes on here about striving parents are true or just exaggerated - but they are infinitely better than kids left home alone with nothing to do, in truancy, or worse, are involved in break-ins, drugs, in jail or whatever. When first-gen immigrants come here and will not work hard, go on welfare with no effort to improve themselves, that's when I worry.

White parent, and an I absolutely agree and admire 1st gen parents who do this. It’s how I raise my kids, although I have the benefit of being white and not first gen. But we love in a heavily Asian community because it reflect their values.

The one place I think Asian parents are off is that they don’t appreciate how complex and chaotic the Us college admission system is. They think hardest work to best ranked school to best grad school to best job/life, etc. and that makes sense. And would make college admissions easier. And I agree with hardest work. But the US doesn’t have a best college or a ranking of colleges at the undergrad level. Sorry USNWR. Grad school, yes. But not undergrad. The best college depends on what your kid wants to do, what their goal is, how they learn, etc. it’s not necessarily the top of the USNWR chart. For your kid and what they want, it might be a large land grant university in the Midwest. Harvard undergrad kids may not have a better shot at a top law school, med school grad program than kids from Haverford. If what you want is outcomes at age 30, that’s not what USNWR.

When My kid applied, people asked me where he wanted to go, and my answer, having worked with him for years on a long term plan and done a lot of research was: the strongest undergrad mentored science research possible, internships, small size, excellent Biology PhD admissions, and a non-major music program. Their are a handful of college that do this very well. 90% of this board will no have heard of where he ended up. Which is strange, because it’s consistently in the USNWR top 10 to 15 LACs and has close to 100% med school placement with more than half getting their top choice. Hes happy, thriving, has great opportunities and I believe is going to get where he wants to go. He would not have the same opportunities at Harvard or Yale. Sure, they do award winning research— by grad students and post docs. I want my kid to get to the point they are able to be a Harvard or Yale level science. That doesn’t start at Harvard or Yale. Fortune 500 CEO it may well be Ivy or Bust. But not science research, which is where my kid wants to go.

I’m not sure I fully understand what you’re saying, but I think that some Asians may get too hung up on what I’d call extreme credentialism. Some whites do too, of course! Underlying this must be a notion that obtaining a certain academic credential equates to a successful life. But really, in nova, you can’t underestimate how badly parents want those bragging rights.

The reason Asian Americans get "hung up" on credentials, is because minorities in this country are discriminated against. In life, jobs, everything. Asian Amercians (and other minorities) have to have higher credentials to have a better career chances to counteract the fact that they have less doors open to them than non minorities. Boiling it down to "bragging rights" shows how little understanding and awareness you have of the racism that is very much a daily part of existence for minorities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1, my neighbor's TJ kid with full SAT score and perfect everything else (leadership, volunteering...) was rejected by top 20 schools and ended up with UVA. The parents were so upset and didn't talk to anyone for months.

LOL... my asian kid attended St. Albans school with mediocre grade and SAT. He graduated from an unknown college but it really did not matter. He got a job because one of his high school "buddies" was the SVP at his father's company. My kid is now Senior VP at the company report directly to his high school buddy who is now Executive VP. He is making more money than he knows what to do with it. It's about the connection.

Yes, it's about the connections. Even dumb kids like PP's son can make a lot of money using his connections. Leech-like life if you ask me but money is money. Congrats PP.

[Anonymous]

Not Asian, but URM. I know an Asian-American kid at HYPS who had an unusual, but stellar profile that his HS counselor believed made him a strong candidate for the university. In his case, his family was not pushing him to consider any particular schools. He was a LMC candidate from a state and school with comparatively fewer applicants. His counselor thought he had really good chances and he got in. He’s also doing what he loves and even took a gap year at HYPS to pursue that passion. The school seems like a really good fit for him.

He was precisely what it appears that these schools are looking for. A genuine, bright kid, unpolished (in a good way), first gen, successful in a hobby that he LOVES, who could really benefit from the institution and its ample resources.

I noticed that one parent suggested essentially for Asian-American kids to be continue stereotypical behaviors in grade school that could be detrimental down the road. Within my organization our STEM-related programs would not function without the significant contributions of Asian-Americans. Yet, few, if any, are in the senior ranks. When they are, they’re usually Senior Scientists vice senior management. In other words, they lack a real seat at the table.

I suspect that some Asian-American applicants are disadvantaged by unremarkable packages. The White kids who were saving orphans by building wells in Costa Rica have been replaced by Asian-American classically trained musicians. If your kid, loves nothing more than playing the flute, great. How about baseball or hockey? Playing percussions instead? Writing poetry? Considering great schools that several graduating student peers aren’t also vying for that also come with merit aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure if the anecdotes on here about striving parents are true or just exaggerated - but they are infinitely better than kids left home alone with nothing to do, in truancy, or worse, are involved in break-ins, drugs, in jail or whatever. When first-gen immigrants come here and will not work hard, go on welfare with no effort to improve themselves, that's when I worry.

White parent, and an I absolutely agree and admire 1st gen parents who do this. It’s how I raise my kids, although I have the benefit of being white and not first gen. But we love in a heavily Asian community because it reflect their values.

The one place I think Asian parents are off is that they don’t appreciate how complex and chaotic the Us college admission system is. They think hardest work to best ranked school to best grad school to best job/life, etc. and that makes sense. And would make college admissions easier. And I agree with hardest work. But the US doesn’t have a best college or a ranking of colleges at the undergrad level. Sorry USNWR. Grad school, yes. But not undergrad. The best college depends on what your kid wants to do, what their goal is, how they learn, etc. it’s not necessarily the top of the USNWR chart. For your kid and what they want, it might be a large land grant university in the Midwest. Harvard undergrad kids may not have a better shot at a top law school, med school grad program than kids from Haverford. If what you want is outcomes at age 30, that’s not what USNWR.

When My kid applied, people asked me where he wanted to go, and my answer, having worked with him for years on a long term plan and done a lot of research was: the strongest undergrad mentored science research possible, internships, small size, excellent Biology PhD admissions, and a non-major music program. Their are a handful of college that do this very well. 90% of this board will no have heard of where he ended up. Which is strange, because it’s consistently in the USNWR top 10 to 15 LACs and has close to 100% med school placement with more than half getting their top choice. Hes happy, thriving, has great opportunities and I believe is going to get where he wants to go. He would not have the same opportunities at Harvard or Yale. Sure, they do award winning research— by grad students and post docs. I want my kid to get to the point they are able to be a Harvard or Yale level science. That doesn’t start at Harvard or Yale. Fortune 500 CEO it may well be Ivy or Bust. But not science research, which is where my kid wants to go.

I’m not sure I fully understand what you’re saying, but I think that some Asians may get too hung up on what I’d call extreme credentialism. Some whites do too, of course! Underlying this must be a notion that obtaining a certain academic credential equates to a successful life. But really, in nova, you can’t underestimate how badly parents want those bragging rights.

The reason Asian Americans get "hung up" on credentials, is because minorities in this country are discriminated against. In life, jobs, everything. Asian Amercians (and other minorities) have to have higher credentials to have a better career chances to counteract the fact that they have less doors open to them than non minorities. Boiling it down to "bragging rights" shows how little understanding and awareness you have of the racism that is very much a daily part of existence for minorities.

Just not seeing that much evidence of discrimination against Asians in nova. Elsewhere, sure, maybe. I’d need to educate myself on how the university admission systems work in China and S. Korea to get a sense of cultural influences that may have an impact. Asians are often up front about prepping, whereas many whites like to keep that stiff low profile while being every bit as concerned about getting the credentials.

[Anonymous]

PP here. Typing from my tiny phone. Excuse the typos.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op, this thread is a good example of what's wrong with the approaches taken by many Asian families and why top colleges don't want full of Asian kids. There are ~4000 colleges in US. The "success" threshold for Asian families are (not all but most) are top 10-20 schools... The "Ivy/M/S or Bust" approach is not healthy. If I were an admission officer, I would do my best to mix kids from all SES/racial backgrounds. And I say this as an Asian parent. You see this happening at HS level too as you see here re. TJ posts

I do not agree.

Asians have to break the bamboo ceiling. All the kids who went on to do well in no-name colleges are White. Asians do not get this kind of opportunities unless they are going with colleges that have the name recognition. With all the steller stats my kid has, he cannot change the race that he is in. If a person is biracial (White with whatever other race) and if they can pass for White, they should position themselves as White candidate.

No one has the Ivy/M/S mentality, but the employers do. And the employers are White who want to employ White people. The only Asians they want to employ are the ones who can be exploited for a very low pay like the H1B visa slaves or someone who has the credentials and training from a good college.

Anyhow, the only silver lining is that most Asian-American parents will sacrifice a lot in their lives to make sure that the kids get an education and a financial leg-up in life. As the cost of college education keeps on rising Asian-Americans may come out on the top because their parents help them out.

[Anonymous]

I have a child who is intellectually gifted who scores really high on testing and gets straight As. She’s Caucasian. How come I realize that’s not necessarily enough to get into Harvard, but Asians think that’s all it takes? I mean it must just be cultural.

[Anonymous]

To the PP (15:00), that’s just not true. Asian kids graduating from UMD and other schools are doing well also. Elite universities will open doors, but they are not a dealbreaker for success. Beyond your mid-20s, few employers care.

Have a marketable skill, grit, and social skills and you can be successful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op, this thread is a good example of what's wrong with the approaches taken by many Asian families and why top colleges don't want full of Asian kids. There are ~4000 colleges in US. The "success" threshold for Asian families are (not all but most) are top 10-20 schools... The "Ivy/M/S or Bust" approach is not healthy. If I were an admission officer, I would do my best to mix kids from all SES/racial backgrounds. And I say this as an Asian parent. You see this happening at HS level too as you see here re. TJ posts

Don't put words in other people's mouths. Most Asian families DON"T think only the top colleges mean success. The problem Asian students with the same qualification as their non-Asian peers can only think of one or two levels down in admission. Yes, they can still attend college, but why do they have to work harder and achieve more to get in the same?