Working parents - feel like I spend no time with my kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:It’s not a zero sum game.

You could look for a part time that pays less and is more flexible. Your kids would still get some financial benefits like vacations and possibly private school.

It’s nit just work at your current job or quit and take a 200K hit. There is a world of options in-between. Start exploring them.

This. So many SAHMs never even explored flexible arrangements. Start looking into finding a new job or flexibility from your current employer. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing.

Really? Many of us tried and were told no. Or, we didn't have that kind of income where we could hire a nanny and make it work. You are pretty clueless. I had absolutely no flexibility.

How many jobs did you apply for?

NP. 1) So many people on this site say they have a flexible job, when what they really have is a job where they are in the office 9-5, have to work from home at night and on the weekends, and have a decent amount of sick/vacation time that they can take for various things. If you are happy with that, great. But that's not what most SAHM-types think of as flexible.

2) So is OP - who is already strapped for time - supposed to spend the next few months endlessly applying for jobs and going to interviews....? How does that help her not miss out on infancy?

This is false.

No it's not! I've seen it so many times. Someone goes on an on about their flexible job, and then they finally clarify that they are really like a doctor that has gone "part-time" (so, still 50 hours), or they are a lawyer who used to work til 8 pm in the office everynight, but now they leave at 5, do dinner bath and bedtime, then get back on the computer. Or they have one telework day a week, where they are working a full 8+ hrs but get to see their kids a little more in the morning and evening, and they call that flexible.

Whatever makes you feel better about not working.

I have a truly flexible job. 10 min commute. Complete flexibility - come and go whenever I please. Co-workers do the same and we schedule meetings etc around our schedules. I travel a few times a year, short trips, and never work on Fridays. Make about 100k.

I'm lucky, but far from alone. For example, my kid plays on a soccer team with practice starting at 4pm. We rotated which parent was there to help out - 75% of these moms work, and everyone was able to show up. SAHMs refuse to believe flexibility exists because their husbands convince them it's impossible or they never got senior enough to have it as an option.

1) Yes, you are lucky. 2) Yes, it is great that you made it to a senior role. Are you suggesting no one have kids til they get to a senior role at a company with flexibility? You do realize many/most women don't even have the opportunity to reach those senior roles, right? Or many of them do, and then they are old and have to struggle with infertility. 3) I am betting a lot of those moms at 4 pm soccer flexed their time 7 to 4 that day, or used vacation/sick time, or are going to work on their computers later that night....

I didn't have this job when my kids were infants. I leveraged experience to get to a lower-paying but hugely flexible job (current job, as described) as they got older. Yes, I missed a bit of baby time, but had wonderful childcare and an involved and awesome husband (who, again, didn't have to take a killer job because I was sharing the financial and parenting load). The working world is not what it used to be, and that's largely because women are stepping up and saying 'this is what I need to make it work.'

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not a zero sum game.

You could look for a part time that pays less and is more flexible. Your kids would still get some financial benefits like vacations and possibly private school.

It’s nit just work at your current job or quit and take a 200K hit. There is a world of options in-between. Start exploring them.

This. So many SAHMs never even explored flexible arrangements. Start looking into finding a new job or flexibility from your current employer. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing.

Really? Many of us tried and were told no. Or, we didn't have that kind of income where we could hire a nanny and make it work. You are pretty clueless. I had absolutely no flexibility.

How many jobs did you apply for?

NP. 1) So many people on this site say they have a flexible job, when what they really have is a job where they are in the office 9-5, have to work from home at night and on the weekends, and have a decent amount of sick/vacation time that they can take for various things. If you are happy with that, great. But that's not what most SAHM-types think of as flexible.

2) So is OP - who is already strapped for time - supposed to spend the next few months endlessly applying for jobs and going to interviews....? How does that help her not miss out on infancy?

This is false.

+1. I don’t know a single woman who works in the weekends besides one real estate agent I’m friends with. Very few men are even working on the weekends. But you’re convinced that moms with flexible jobs are working weekends? You’re insane.

There really are flexible jobs out there. Just because you couldn’t get one or didn’t even try doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not a zero sum game.

You could look for a part time that pays less and is more flexible. Your kids would still get some financial benefits like vacations and possibly private school.

It’s nit just work at your current job or quit and take a 200K hit. There is a world of options in-between. Start exploring them.

This. So many SAHMs never even explored flexible arrangements. Start looking into finding a new job or flexibility from your current employer. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing.

Really? Many of us tried and were told no. Or, we didn't have that kind of income where we could hire a nanny and make it work. You are pretty clueless. I had absolutely no flexibility.

How many jobs did you apply for?

NP. 1) So many people on this site say they have a flexible job, when what they really have is a job where they are in the office 9-5, have to work from home at night and on the weekends, and have a decent amount of sick/vacation time that they can take for various things. If you are happy with that, great. But that's not what most SAHM-types think of as flexible.

2) So is OP - who is already strapped for time - supposed to spend the next few months endlessly applying for jobs and going to interviews....? How does that help her not miss out on infancy?

This is false.

No it's not! I've seen it so many times. Someone goes on an on about their flexible job, and then they finally clarify that they are really like a doctor that has gone "part-time" (so, still 50 hours), or they are a lawyer who used to work til 8 pm in the office everynight, but now they leave at 5, do dinner bath and bedtime, then get back on the computer. Or they have one telework day a week, where they are working a full 8+ hrs but get to see their kids a little more in the morning and evening, and they call that flexible.

You are weird. We are a gov't-nonprofit family, like zillions of others we know. "Flexible" to us means full-time work, but one or more telework days per week, the ability to easily work around doctor appointments, school half days, parent teacher meetings. My boss, in particular, doesn't care if I'm in by 9 am, or even if I'm in the office at all as long as my work gets done, and I can easily get my work done in a regular work day. When our kids were little, we had them in a nearby day care from 8 am - 5 pm and, with a short commute, we felt we had plenty of time with them. And, yes, teleworking does make one's job more flexible because cutting out commuting saves 1-2 hours a day for a traditional DC commute.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote: You know, pretty much every woman I work with over the age of 60 took 10-15 years off or mostly after having children. It used to be pretty common to take a break in your career to focus on raising your family while your children are small.

If your husband is on board, I say quit your job and find something very small to keep your toe in the water.

Your experience is not universal.
There were many more barriers to women's employment in the past.
I'm guessing you work with mostly white women, as this is not the typical experience of women of color.

What field are you in? Is it a traditionally dominated role by women? I think returning to a competitive professional career after 15 years at home is a pretty unique feat. I’d suspect OP could quit for 10 years, and would return to a full time job maybe paying $60k.

I am a neurologist.
No. It isn’t dominated by women. It certainly wasn’t back then. And I am not sure if it’s unique. I certainly have quite a few patients who did something similar. It really wasn’t common back then for women to keep working full time after having children.
You have no idea what the OP does, whether or not she can return, or what her salary would be if/when she does. She must have a skill that is so highly compensated.

Medicine is pretty well known as family friendly, and has a huge barrier to entry

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/21/upshot/medicine-family-friendly-profession-women.html

Now if we opened immigration from India etc there may be a problem.

I agree physicians, nurses and teachers have a pretty good setup in terms of easing back into the workforce--however, I know both physicians and teachers who've had a rough time re-entering the work force due to letting their licenses/certifications expire.

OP, I'd stay at it for a year or so longer, and see how you feel at that point. It's weird in the short-term to not see your kid--sometimes my 6mo would be in bed even before I got home from work some evenings--but I think continuing to do work I like and that financially benefits our family is better for our family in the long-term. I went from making 50K when my child was first born to 90K to now 140K. Part is just dumb luck, but part of it is maintaining a solid work history so that I was poised to jump to new, higher-paying positions with more responsibility. I think it's great that my daughter sees that both mom and dad work and have fairly equal roles in the household, and research has shown that daughters of working moms are more likely to work themselves and have higher-paying positions. Also, with my income, we're able to afford private school, trips abroad, and are in a better place for college and retirement planning.

I just want to point out that research only applies to single parent families. Kids are better off having that parent work than being on welfare.
The opposite is true in MC and UMC families. Kids are more likely to have behavior problems and less likely to do well in school, particularly if mom works during that first year of life.
I mean, do what you need to do, but that research gets misquoted on here all of the time, and it drives me crazy.

Huh? Direct quotes:

https://www.inc.com/larry-kim/working-mothers-raise-more-successful-daughters-amp-empathetic-sons-harvard-stud.html

In their study of the International Social Survey Programme and the results of two surveys called "Family and Changing Gender Roles," conducted in 2002 and 2012, the group found that working mothers may be doing a far better job than they thought.

Among their surprising findings:

- Men with mothers who worked outside the home are just as likely to hold supervisory positions in their adult life as those with stay-at-home moms. Women with mothers who worked outside the home, however, are more likely to supervise others at work.
- Being raised by a mother who worked outside the home had no effect on a man's adult income, but women raised by working mothers had a higher income than their peers whose mothers stayed home full-time.
- Men whose mothers had worked outside the home at any point were more likely to contribute to household chores and the care of family members.
- Women raised by a working mother spent more time, on average, with their children than those raised by stay-at-home mothers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not a zero sum game.

You could look for a part time that pays less and is more flexible. Your kids would still get some financial benefits like vacations and possibly private school.

It’s nit just work at your current job or quit and take a 200K hit. There is a world of options in-between. Start exploring them.

This. So many SAHMs never even explored flexible arrangements. Start looking into finding a new job or flexibility from your current employer. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing.

Really? Many of us tried and were told no. Or, we didn't have that kind of income where we could hire a nanny and make it work. You are pretty clueless. I had absolutely no flexibility.

How many jobs did you apply for?

NP. 1) So many people on this site say they have a flexible job, when what they really have is a job where they are in the office 9-5, have to work from home at night and on the weekends, and have a decent amount of sick/vacation time that they can take for various things. If you are happy with that, great. But that's not what most SAHM-types think of as flexible.

2) So is OP - who is already strapped for time - supposed to spend the next few months endlessly applying for jobs and going to interviews....? How does that help her not miss out on infancy?

I remember you! I commented my husband’s job is flexible in that he can leave the office at 5 and come home to do the bath, dinner, play routine and then later log back on. You commented it’s not flexible but you weren’t taking his income into account. He makes close to $400k per year and can give his kids a bath every night and eat dinner. He is home by 5:30 almost every day. I think this is VERY flexible for a job paying $400k HHI.

[Anonymous]

OP, you feel that way because you aren’t spending any time with your kids. A rushed hour in the morning. And another in the evening isn’t quality time. And contrary to what many believe, quantity matters as well. Only you can decide if it’s worth it. For us, no amount of money would have ever been worth it. My kids are grown. And it happened faster than I could have possibly imagined. No private school or fancy vacation would have been worth missing that time with our children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not a zero sum game.

You could look for a part time that pays less and is more flexible. Your kids would still get some financial benefits like vacations and possibly private school.

It’s nit just work at your current job or quit and take a 200K hit. There is a world of options in-between. Start exploring them.

This. So many SAHMs never even explored flexible arrangements. Start looking into finding a new job or flexibility from your current employer. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing.

Really? Many of us tried and were told no. Or, we didn't have that kind of income where we could hire a nanny and make it work. You are pretty clueless. I had absolutely no flexibility.

How many jobs did you apply for?

NP. 1) So many people on this site say they have a flexible job, when what they really have is a job where they are in the office 9-5, have to work from home at night and on the weekends, and have a decent amount of sick/vacation time that they can take for various things. If you are happy with that, great. But that's not what most SAHM-types think of as flexible.

2) So is OP - who is already strapped for time - supposed to spend the next few months endlessly applying for jobs and going to interviews....? How does that help her not miss out on infancy?

I remember you! I commented my husband’s job is flexible in that he can leave the office at 5 and come home to do the bath, dinner, play routine and then later log back on. You commented it’s not flexible but you weren’t taking his income into account. He makes close to $400k per year and can give his kids a bath every night and eat dinner. He is home by 5:30 almost every day. I think this is VERY flexible for a job paying $400k HHI.

That desperate woman will do ANYTHING to convince herself. We all know what's real.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not a zero sum game.

You could look for a part time that pays less and is more flexible. Your kids would still get some financial benefits like vacations and possibly private school.

It’s nit just work at your current job or quit and take a 200K hit. There is a world of options in-between. Start exploring them.

This. So many SAHMs never even explored flexible arrangements. Start looking into finding a new job or flexibility from your current employer. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing.

Really? Many of us tried and were told no. Or, we didn't have that kind of income where we could hire a nanny and make it work. You are pretty clueless. I had absolutely no flexibility.

How many jobs did you apply for?

NP. 1) So many people on this site say they have a flexible job, when what they really have is a job where they are in the office 9-5, have to work from home at night and on the weekends, and have a decent amount of sick/vacation time that they can take for various things. If you are happy with that, great. But that's not what most SAHM-types think of as flexible.

2) So is OP - who is already strapped for time - supposed to spend the next few months endlessly applying for jobs and going to interviews....? How does that help her not miss out on infancy?

This is false.

No it's not! I've seen it so many times. Someone goes on an on about their flexible job, and then they finally clarify that they are really like a doctor that has gone "part-time" (so, still 50 hours), or they are a lawyer who used to work til 8 pm in the office everynight, but now they leave at 5, do dinner bath and bedtime, then get back on the computer. Or they have one telework day a week, where they are working a full 8+ hrs but get to see their kids a little more in the morning and evening, and they call that flexible.

You are weird. We are a gov't-nonprofit family, like zillions of others we know. "Flexible" to us means full-time work, but one or more telework days per week, the ability to easily work around doctor appointments, school half days, parent teacher meetings. My boss, in particular, doesn't care if I'm in by 9 am, or even if I'm in the office at all as long as my work gets done, and I can easily get my work done in a regular work day. When our kids were little, we had them in a nearby day care from 8 am - 5 pm and, with a short commute, we felt we had plenty of time with them. And, yes, teleworking does make one's job more flexible because cutting out commuting saves 1-2 hours a day for a traditional DC commute.

+1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

1) Yes, you are lucky. 2) Yes, it is great that you made it to a senior role. Are you suggesting no one have kids til they get to a senior role at a company with flexibility? You do realize many/most women don't even have the opportunity to reach those senior roles, right? Or many of them do, and then they are old and have to struggle with infertility. 3) I am betting a lot of those moms at 4 pm soccer flexed their time 7 to 4 that day, or used vacation/sick time, or are going to work on their computers later that night....

I'm a different poster with a similarly flexible job, and it's great! I could definitely arrange to work at home and then be at the 4pm practice once per week without having to jump through any crazy hoops. At most I would check my email after practice and then respond to anything urgent, which with my position would almost always be nothing. I have a job that is task based and doesn't require many meetings. It's either done or it's not, and once it's done I can do whatever I want. Obviously not everyone can do this, but it's more common than you think.

I occasionally go on job interviews just to see whats out there and have to suss out what "flexible" means to the potential employer. I agree that it is sometimes the flexibility to work at 7pm either at home OR in the office, so that definitely exists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not a zero sum game.

You could look for a part time that pays less and is more flexible. Your kids would still get some financial benefits like vacations and possibly private school.

It’s nit just work at your current job or quit and take a 200K hit. There is a world of options in-between. Start exploring them.

This. So many SAHMs never even explored flexible arrangements. Start looking into finding a new job or flexibility from your current employer. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing.

Really? Many of us tried and were told no. Or, we didn't have that kind of income where we could hire a nanny and make it work. You are pretty clueless. I had absolutely no flexibility.

How many jobs did you apply for?

NP. 1) So many people on this site say they have a flexible job, when what they really have is a job where they are in the office 9-5, have to work from home at night and on the weekends, and have a decent amount of sick/vacation time that they can take for various things. If you are happy with that, great. But that's not what most SAHM-types think of as flexible.

2) So is OP - who is already strapped for time - supposed to spend the next few months endlessly applying for jobs and going to interviews....? How does that help her not miss out on infancy?

This is false.

No it's not! I've seen it so many times. Someone goes on an on about their flexible job, and then they finally clarify that they are really like a doctor that has gone "part-time" (so, still 50 hours), or they are a lawyer who used to work til 8 pm in the office everynight, but now they leave at 5, do dinner bath and bedtime, then get back on the computer. Or they have one telework day a week, where they are working a full 8+ hrs but get to see their kids a little more in the morning and evening, and they call that flexible.

NP. So then what is flexible to you? Those examples may not be flexible to SAHMs (not sure why that's the standard anyway) but arguably they are flexible to people who work in the professions you used as examples. The lawyer example you gave wouldn't have been possible 15 years ago because the technology to do those things didn't exist. So yes, being able to leave the office at 5pm even if it means having to log back in later from home is the very definition of flexibility because the alternative is being stuck at the office glued to your desk. It sounds to me that perhaps you equate a flexible job with working only PT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not a zero sum game.

You could look for a part time that pays less and is more flexible. Your kids would still get some financial benefits like vacations and possibly private school.

It’s nit just work at your current job or quit and take a 200K hit. There is a world of options in-between. Start exploring them.

This. So many SAHMs never even explored flexible arrangements. Start looking into finding a new job or flexibility from your current employer. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing.

Really? Many of us tried and were told no. Or, we didn't have that kind of income where we could hire a nanny and make it work. You are pretty clueless. I had absolutely no flexibility.

How many jobs did you apply for?

NP. 1) So many people on this site say they have a flexible job, when what they really have is a job where they are in the office 9-5, have to work from home at night and on the weekends, and have a decent amount of sick/vacation time that they can take for various things. If you are happy with that, great. But that's not what most SAHM-types think of as flexible.

2) So is OP - who is already strapped for time - supposed to spend the next few months endlessly applying for jobs and going to interviews....? How does that help her not miss out on infancy?

This is false.

+1. I don’t know a single woman who works in the weekends besides one real estate agent I’m friends with. Very few men are even working on the weekends. But you’re convinced that moms with flexible jobs are working weekends? You’re insane.

There really are flexible jobs out there. Just because you couldn’t get one or didn’t even try doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

I am just saying what I see on dcum all the time. Yes, I know there are part-time jobs out there. Yes, I know there are truly flexible jobs out there. I do not think they are as common as dcum would have you believe, because, from what I've seen, a lot of the dcum posters who say "flexible jobs are so easy to get! They are everywhere!" are really talking about scaled back big jobs, not truly flexible jobs the way most people would think of it. It's becuase they are in dc and their reference point is big jobs with big hours.

PP, why don't you give me some examples of these plentiful flexible jobs you are talking about?

[Anonymous]

OP - I didn't read all of the comments before so some may be repetitive.

(1) Get up earlier. I'm up between 4:30-5am so that I've worked out before kids get up, I've cut my "getting ready" routine down dramatically, and we just sort of hang out in the morning before having to go to school. Do everything the night before (lunch boxes, clothes laid out, etc.) so you cut down on the morning rush.

(2) Ask to WFM 1 day/week to start. That will help dramatically if possible. The arguments in favor: increase in productivity, more time to work during the day (e.g., while you would otherwise be commuting, getting ready, etc.), and technology (Google hangouts, etc.) makes face time still an option while you are at home.
Or

(3) Ask to leave earlier and then make up the time at home after the kids go to bed. I leave on the earlier side and get on the computer every single night once the kids are down. Again, it's not a decrease in how MUCH you where but in a change in WHERE and WHEN you work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Find a more flexible job. Possibly telework. Try to go part time.


It’s just not possible at my current company. I have looked into it and the jobs that are part time and/or super flexible pay like half of what I make... which pretty much just covers childcare after taxes.

If you're serious about having more time with your kids, this is not a bad option - especially if you enjoy working and want to be able to dial it back up one day.

When my kids were little I worked a 80% schedule with lots of WAH. The pay was pretty much a wash when figuring in childcare, but I was with my kids from 3:30 in the afternoon on, I was able to savor time with them, and our life was really sane. Now that they are upper elementary, my career has taken off again and I'm back at full time in a much more intense role (though still telecommuting a fair amount). If I had left the workforce completely that never would have happened. When you do the financial calculations, you need to think long-term. If you keep your foot in the door, your longterm earnings won't be as impacted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not a zero sum game.

You could look for a part time that pays less and is more flexible. Your kids would still get some financial benefits like vacations and possibly private school.

It’s nit just work at your current job or quit and take a 200K hit. There is a world of options in-between. Start exploring them.

This. So many SAHMs never even explored flexible arrangements. Start looking into finding a new job or flexibility from your current employer. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing.

Really? Many of us tried and were told no. Or, we didn't have that kind of income where we could hire a nanny and make it work. You are pretty clueless. I had absolutely no flexibility.

How many jobs did you apply for?

NP. 1) So many people on this site say they have a flexible job, when what they really have is a job where they are in the office 9-5, have to work from home at night and on the weekends, and have a decent amount of sick/vacation time that they can take for various things. If you are happy with that, great. But that's not what most SAHM-types think of as flexible.

2) So is OP - who is already strapped for time - supposed to spend the next few months endlessly applying for jobs and going to interviews....? How does that help her not miss out on infancy?

This is false.

No it's not! I've seen it so many times. Someone goes on an on about their flexible job, and then they finally clarify that they are really like a doctor that has gone "part-time" (so, still 50 hours), or they are a lawyer who used to work til 8 pm in the office everynight, but now they leave at 5, do dinner bath and bedtime, then get back on the computer. Or they have one telework day a week, where they are working a full 8+ hrs but get to see their kids a little more in the morning and evening, and they call that flexible.

Whatever makes you feel better about not working.

I have a truly flexible job. 10 min commute. Complete flexibility - come and go whenever I please. Co-workers do the same and we schedule meetings etc around our schedules. I travel a few times a year, short trips, and never work on Fridays. Make about 100k.

I'm lucky, but far from alone. For example, my kid plays on a soccer team with practice starting at 4pm. We rotated which parent was there to help out - 75% of these moms work, and everyone was able to show up. SAHMs refuse to believe flexibility exists because their husbands convince them it's impossible or they never got senior enough to have it as an option.

NP Oh gosh I've seen this brought up so many times. It's completely false. No our husbands don't tell us what to do, no we aren't stupid unlike smart you and don't know about flexible options. We just made a different choice than you, for a wide variety of reasons. I walked away from a stimulating career with flexibility because I preferred to be a SAHM. Full stop. It wasn't because of my husband or because I didn't understand about choices or because I wasn't senior.

[Anonymous]

^^ maybe you should tell us what you mean by flexible, since you think it doesn't exist?

Flexible DC jobs: web developer, programmer, graphic designer, physical therapist, head hunter, counselor, editor, event planner, sales rep, account rep. Anything where work is done by the job, not the hour.