Question for parents of black children in Montgomery County.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP,

The truth is that bullying and racism exist in all private and public schools. As a mixed race foreigner who lived in multiple countries, I have always had to adjust because I have never been part of the established majority in any given country.

Pick great schools, period. Bethesda has the best schools. Seriously, MCPS are not created equal. I know, because we moved around and I compared schools. I also have friends in various school clusters with whom I compare schools.

The rest is about raising your kids to brush off micro-aggressions and self-advocate when they encounter overt racism. You will support and accompany them on that path.

IMO, as a non white person, I would not choose a school that has very little minority children. By PP's own admission, PP had to adjust because PP was always in the minority. That couldn't be helped in the foreign countries that PP probably lived in. But here in MoCo? There is so much diversity even in good schools, why would you purposefully choose a school that had little diversity, and low representation of your kid's background such that your kid would be forced to "adjust"?

Well, I didn't want to get into it, but some posters have already said it: schools with many black students still have a bias against them because many such students are poor and do not perform well in school. So if you don't want to be stereotyped as poor, under-achieving black student, please don't make the mistake of seeing diversity as a draw in these schools. If you can afford it, it's better to go to a school in a wealthier area, where there will be fewer black students, but where poverty and under-achievement, which in people's minds go hand-in-hand, will not be automatically assumed of you. My kids spent some years in Bethesda Elementary, for instance: there were extremely few blacks students, but they were top of their class and went on to magnets.

I am very serious about this, PP. "Diversity" is a concept that is not well understood by most people.

I'm a white poster, so maybe I should shut up and not say anything, but I thought I'd share my perspective on two different schools I went to. One was about 50/50 Anglo-white, and Latino. It was a bused school and the Latinos were from a very poor and challenged area of the city, whereas the anglo whites were not. The two groups did not mix at all socially, and really only in things like gym class. I suspect it was rough to be one of the few middle income Latinos with educated parents in that school. A different school I went to was more of a random mix of people. I had a lot of friends who were Latino, and who came from all income levels, and there were a lot more Latinos in my advanced classes at that school, even though the percentage of Latinos was lower at that school (maybe 20-30% instead of 50%). So I can see what PP is saying that pure numbers don't always tell the story. The best "diverse" schools have a real mix of people from different backgrounds, imo.

Yes, diversity of SES *and* race is important. I do agree that if you have racial diversity but the majority of the URM kids are poor, then that's not good. But, there are "good" schools that have a mix of this diversity.

RMHS has 17.5% AA, and 5.5% FARMs for that group. There are several AA students in AP classes, and even IB.
BCC has 14%AA, and 5.2% FARMs -- and BCC also has IB

AA rate isn't as high as other HS, obviously, but it's certainly higher than the W schools, and not a high FARMs rate for that group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we want to use test scores, I'd look at schools where each demographic group outperforms the state average for that group and how they compare to other schools.

So, folks upthread say Bethesda schools are better.

However, Black kids at Takoma Park MS outperform Black kids at Westland MS.

White kids at Takoma Park MS also outperform White kids at Westland.

At each demographic subgroup, kids at TPMS outperform kids at WMS.

So why do we think Bethesda schools are better? Because the proportion of each group is different, even though each group is doing better at the more diverse school.

Funny that you chose that one school... I'm sure that wasnt a mistake, now was it?

Well, if you're gonna compare MS's let's do it all, shall we?
Let's compare every MS in the county and we'll see what we come up with when you're not cherry picking ONE school for comparisons sake.

Where's your source on outperformance?
I'd love to compare all of the middle schools and see if your theory really shakes out, or if you just chose a niche school to attempt to make a point.

I'm pretty sure we all know the answer.

I'm the PP, and chose TPMS because that was one of the schools folks were recommending for OP.

The comment on outperformance comes from the percentage of kids in each subgroup getting a 4 or 5 on MCAP. In each group, there was a higher percentage of kids at TPMS passing than at WMS.

All of this goes to demonstrate that the folks upthread saying "Bethesda schools are better, full stop" are not only wrong when it comes to Black kids, they are wrong with it comes to all kids.

Isn't TPMS a magnet school, or am I mixing it up with another school? Doesn't seem fair to compare a magnet school to a non-magnet school.

TPMS is a magnet, but it also has set-aside seats for the neighborhood which means a lot of local kids, coming out of local elementary schools, are counted in the magnet scores. Besides, the magnet isn't big enough to create large swings.

If OP is looking for a racially diverse school where kids like hers do well on the population level, it makes sense to look at Takoma Park and that part of Silver Spring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read a lot of anti-Asian American sentiment on here, too. I'm Asian American. And there are several African American families who live on my block. One thing I have learned from DCUM -- take it with a grain of salt. It is not reflective of real life.

Definitely take it with a grain of salt. The anti-Asian sentiment is about a race-blind admission process to magnet programs which some claim is biased despite Asians being awarded 3X the number of seats of any other cohort. Although it's hard to take that seriously, there have been numerous racial incidents at the segregated schools, aka "The W's". Your best bet is to visit schools in person and try to form an opinion based on first-hand knowledge.

Oh shut up with your "segregated" BS.

I'm black & am highly offended that you would throw the word segregated around so lightly, especially when making ridiculous blanket statements.

I have relatives who were forced to attend ACTUAL segregated schools & then were the first to attend integrated schools where nobody wanted them there EVER. So please, do yourself a favor and stop with the ignorant, thoughtless comments.

OP, I'm black and my children go to Walter Johnson, which is a (gasp!) W school & they both love it there.

Contrary to what the PP says, there is a thriving community of diversification at WJ (and I don't care what your statistics show, I see these kids with my own two eyes... there a nice mix of all POC).

WJ is a very welcoming community, any criticisms that you read come from parents who don't actually have kids at WJ & have probably never been to the school.

Whatever your child is into you can find it at WJ, whether it be sports, clubs, social awareness causes, environmental awareness causes, you name it & your kids can find their tribe.
If they don't have it yet, students are free to start new clubs as well.

Wasn't there just an article in the post about kids wearing blackface and using the N-word at these schools? This sort of thing only happens at the segregated schools.

No, this sort of things don’t only happen at the “segregated” schools if by “segregated” you mean few black and Latino students. Dc had first-hand experience at a “diverse” school, aka ~50-60% black/Latino students. And all students know calling racial slurs against black students is way way more serious than doing the same towards other races and it looks most adults think similarly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read a lot of anti-Asian American sentiment on here, too. I'm Asian American. And there are several African American families who live on my block. One thing I have learned from DCUM -- take it with a grain of salt. It is not reflective of real life.

Definitely take it with a grain of salt. The anti-Asian sentiment is about a race-blind admission process to magnet programs which some claim is biased despite Asians being awarded 3X the number of seats of any other cohort. Although it's hard to take that seriously, there have been numerous racial incidents at the segregated schools, aka "The W's". Your best bet is to visit schools in person and try to form an opinion based on first-hand knowledge.

Oh shut up with your "segregated" BS.

I'm black & am highly offended that you would throw the word segregated around so lightly, especially when making ridiculous blanket statements.

I have relatives who were forced to attend ACTUAL segregated schools & then were the first to attend integrated schools where nobody wanted them there EVER. So please, do yourself a favor and stop with the ignorant, thoughtless comments.

OP, I'm black and my children go to Walter Johnson, which is a (gasp!) W school & they both love it there.

Contrary to what the PP says, there is a thriving community of diversification at WJ (and I don't care what your statistics show, I see these kids with my own two eyes... there a nice mix of all POC).

WJ is a very welcoming community, any criticisms that you read come from parents who don't actually have kids at WJ & have probably never been to the school.

Whatever your child is into you can find it at WJ, whether it be sports, clubs, social awareness causes, environmental awareness causes, you name it & your kids can find their tribe.
If they don't have it yet, students are free to start new clubs as well.

Wasn't there just an article in the post about kids wearing blackface and using the N-word at these schools? This sort of thing only happens at the segregated schools.

That was at Whitman & Winston Churchill, not at WJ.

Nice try though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Isn't TPMS a magnet school, or am I mixing it up with another school? Doesn't seem fair to compare a magnet school to a non-magnet school.

TPMS is a magnet, but it also has set-aside seats for the neighborhood which means a lot of local kids, coming out of local elementary schools, are counted in the magnet scores. Besides, the magnet isn't big enough to create large swings.

If OP is looking for a racially diverse school where kids like hers do well on the population level, it makes sense to look at Takoma Park and that part of Silver Spring.

"A lot of" local kids are counted in the "not big enough" magnet program? This kind of ambiguous statement is not going anywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read a lot of anti-Asian American sentiment on here, too. I'm Asian American. And there are several African American families who live on my block. One thing I have learned from DCUM -- take it with a grain of salt. It is not reflective of real life.

Definitely take it with a grain of salt. The anti-Asian sentiment is about a race-blind admission process to magnet programs which some claim is biased despite Asians being awarded 3X the number of seats of any other cohort. Although it's hard to take that seriously, there have been numerous racial incidents at the segregated schools, aka "The W's". Your best bet is to visit schools in person and try to form an opinion based on first-hand knowledge.

Oh shut up with your "segregated" BS.

I'm black & am highly offended that you would throw the word segregated around so lightly, especially when making ridiculous blanket statements.

I have relatives who were forced to attend ACTUAL segregated schools & then were the first to attend integrated schools where nobody wanted them there EVER. So please, do yourself a favor and stop with the ignorant, thoughtless comments.

OP, I'm black and my children go to Walter Johnson, which is a (gasp!) W school & they both love it there.

Contrary to what the PP says, there is a thriving community of diversification at WJ (and I don't care what your statistics show, I see these kids with my own two eyes... there a nice mix of all POC).

WJ is a very welcoming community, any criticisms that you read come from parents who don't actually have kids at WJ & have probably never been to the school.

Whatever your child is into you can find it at WJ, whether it be sports, clubs, social awareness causes, environmental awareness causes, you name it & your kids can find their tribe.
If they don't have it yet, students are free to start new clubs as well.

Wasn't there just an article in the post about kids wearing blackface and using the N-word at these schools? This sort of thing only happens at the segregated schools.

No, this sort of things don’t only happen at the “segregated” schools if by “segregated” you mean few black and Latino students. Dc had first-hand experience at a “diverse” school, aka ~50-60% black/Latino students. And all students know calling racial slurs against black students is way way more serious than doing the same towards other races and it looks most adults think similarly.

What school?

[Anonymous]

I'm not reading through five pages of this thread but we are in the Churchill cluster, within walking distance. There are black people in the neighborhood, but not many. It's mostly white and Asian. Our minority neighbors love it here. In my experience, the people living here are more classist than racist... one would be just fine as a minority, but a low income family of any race would be decidedly NOT fine.

[Anonymous]

I dont see why anyone in their right mind would think schools are segregated in MoCo. They are so diverse it is almost annoying. It is like the United Colors of Benneton advertising campaign.

BTW Bethesda/Chevy Chase and WJ drive by at lunch time or when schools let out. It is like a We are the World.

[Anonymous]

My high achieving AA DC has had good experiences in the schools in Silver Spring 20901.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I dont see why anyone in their right mind would think schools are segregated in MoCo. They are so diverse it is almost annoying. It is like the United Colors of Benneton advertising campaign.

BTW Bethesda/Chevy Chase and WJ drive by at lunch time or when schools let out. It is like a We are the World.

Because they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I dont see why anyone in their right mind would think schools are segregated in MoCo. They are so diverse it is almost annoying. It is like the United Colors of Benneton advertising campaign.

BTW Bethesda/Chevy Chase and WJ drive by at lunch time or when schools let out. It is like a We are the World.

Because they are.

Of course you can have your own definition of "segregated" schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I dont see why anyone in their right mind would think schools are segregated in MoCo. They are so diverse it is almost annoying. It is like the United Colors of Benneton advertising campaign.

BTW Bethesda/Chevy Chase and WJ drive by at lunch time or when schools let out. It is like a We are the World.

Because they are.

Of course you can have your own definition of "segregated" schools.

Do you have high school kids in MCPS? Ask them what they think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I dont see why anyone in their right mind would think schools are segregated in MoCo. They are so diverse it is almost annoying. It is like the United Colors of Benneton advertising campaign.

BTW Bethesda/Chevy Chase and WJ drive by at lunch time or when schools let out. It is like a We are the World.

Because they are.

Of course you can have your own definition of "segregated" schools.

Do you have high school kids in MCPS? Ask them what they think.

No need to ask them, I know - kids from DC's school, kids appear to hang out more with kids from their own races.
That is their own cultural choices, no one is forcing them and they are not hostile towards kids from other races. I don't call that "segregation".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

No need to ask them, I know - kids from DC's school, kids appear to hang out more with kids from their own races.
That is their own cultural choices, no one is forcing them and they are not hostile towards kids from other races. I don't call that "segregation".

How about that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I dont see why anyone in their right mind would think schools are segregated in MoCo. They are so diverse it is almost annoying. It is like the United Colors of Benneton advertising campaign.

BTW Bethesda/Chevy Chase and WJ drive by at lunch time or when schools let out. It is like a We are the World.

Because they are.

Another recent thread already noted what white people probably really see when they say that.

I agree that WJ has many different types of Asian students. As well as Israeli and Eastern European whites. A sprinkling of black and brown students.

I’ve taught in a WJ feeder. A few years ago, it looked at the optics in classrooms and decided it would only offer advanced courses in English, Science, and Social Studies. The truly more rigorous classes in Math are whiter and the onlevel (for all intents and purposes) classes are almost entirely brown. There are many micro aggression incidents against AA and HI students and not much social mixing between racial and ethnic groups. The principal likes to brag about the school’s diversity, but mostly counts the different European and Asian countries if pressed. If you are black or Latino, the assumption is that you are either a COSA student or you live in one of the apartments/condo/townhouses on the “wrong side of Old Georgetown Rd”. For years, the school has encouraged AA and HI staff to bring their own children on COSA. No one does because of the toxic atmosphere.