Question for parents of black children in Montgomery County.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Racial bias is very prevalent in our experience at one of the diverse schools in MCPS. When you have a school where the black kids are more often than not poor and not doing well in school teachers start stereotyping all black kids. It seems to be worse for boys than girls. Its small things like having lower expectations or assuming the worst about a kid.

The bigger problem is socially when the classes start splitting up into CES, compacted math, magnets, AP classes. The white kids fill up those classes and your kid is back to being one of the few black kids in the class even though you are in a diverse school. You don't want your kid hanging out with kids who are failing, skipping school and getting in trouble but it is not good that your kid has to reject being around the other black kids. The school within a school model in MCPS may attract more white people into certain neighborhoods but it doesn't provide a good environment for black kids. I suspect hispanic parents feel the same.


I am confused. Do you imply that for acadamically able AA students it is better for them to be in a school has less other AA students? Or do you think itis better for MCPS stopping offering advanced classes so everyone will be on the same page?

Not exactly. Ideally, there would be a school with a critical mass of academically able AA and white kids along with a critical mass of academically challenged AA and white kids. The problem is SES and race. In MCPS, AA usually means poor. Poor usually means academically challenged. White people in these schools do not understand what it is like when everyone else who looks like you is failing and everyone who doesn't look like you is succeeding. The CES, magnets and AP classes just magnify this by 100. Its a myth that choosing a more diverse school in MCPS gives you a better experience with racial equity. Its the exact opposite!

Ironically, I hear from friends in VA that it isn't as bad over there with the AAP system. I don't have direct experience with those schools so I can't confirm whether this is true. It might also be the case that MCPS is just so overly focused on race that this plays out negatively while VA is less focused on it. I personally would not live in VA so I don't know.

This problem in MCPS though is why so many higher SES black parents choose to live in PG and do private schools, or accept being one of the only black kids in a W school or being one of only a handful of black kids at a more elite predominantly white private school. There just are no good options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Racial bias is very prevalent in our experience at one of the diverse schools in MCPS. When you have a school where the black kids are more often than not poor and not doing well in school teachers start stereotyping all black kids. It seems to be worse for boys than girls. Its small things like having lower expectations or assuming the worst about a kid.

The bigger problem is socially when the classes start splitting up into CES, compacted math, magnets, AP classes. The white kids fill up those classes and your kid is back to being one of the few black kids in the class even though you are in a diverse school. You don't want your kid hanging out with kids who are failing, skipping school and getting in trouble but it is not good that your kid has to reject being around the other black kids. The school within a school model in MCPS may attract more white people into certain neighborhoods but it doesn't provide a good environment for black kids. I suspect hispanic parents feel the same.


I am confused. Do you imply that for acadamically able AA students it is better for them to be in a school has less other AA students? Or do you think itis better for MCPS stopping offering advanced classes so everyone will be on the same page?

Not exactly. Ideally, there would be a school with a critical mass of academically able AA and white kids along with a critical mass of academically challenged AA and white kids. The problem is SES and race. In MCPS, AA usually means poor. Poor usually means academically challenged. White people in these schools do not understand what it is like when everyone else who looks like you is failing and everyone who doesn't look like you is succeeding. The CES, magnets and AP classes just magnify this by 100. Its a myth that choosing a more diverse school in MCPS gives you a better experience with racial equity. Its the exact opposite!

Ironically, I hear from friends in VA that it isn't as bad over there with the AAP system. I don't have direct experience with those schools so I can't confirm whether this is true. It might also be the case that MCPS is just so overly focused on race that this plays out negatively while VA is less focused on it. I personally would not live in VA so I don't know.

This problem in MCPS though is why so many higher SES black parents choose to live in PG and do private schools, or accept being one of the only black kids in a W school or being one of only a handful of black kids at a more elite predominantly white private school. There just are no good options.

This is so cynical. How do you explain kids like the new Student Member of the Board, a black young man who goes to Kennedy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Racial bias is very prevalent in our experience at one of the diverse schools in MCPS. When you have a school where the black kids are more often than not poor and not doing well in school teachers start stereotyping all black kids. It seems to be worse for boys than girls. Its small things like having lower expectations or assuming the worst about a kid.

The bigger problem is socially when the classes start splitting up into CES, compacted math, magnets, AP classes. The white kids fill up those classes and your kid is back to being one of the few black kids in the class even though you are in a diverse school. You don't want your kid hanging out with kids who are failing, skipping school and getting in trouble but it is not good that your kid has to reject being around the other black kids. The school within a school model in MCPS may attract more white people into certain neighborhoods but it doesn't provide a good environment for black kids. I suspect hispanic parents feel the same.


I am confused. Do you imply that for acadamically able AA students it is better for them to be in a school has less other AA students? Or do you think itis better for MCPS stopping offering advanced classes so everyone will be on the same page?

Not exactly. Ideally, there would be a school with a critical mass of academically able AA and white kids along with a critical mass of academically challenged AA and white kids. The problem is SES and race. In MCPS, AA usually means poor. Poor usually means academically challenged. White people in these schools do not understand what it is like when everyone else who looks like you is failing and everyone who doesn't look like you is succeeding. The CES, magnets and AP classes just magnify this by 100. Its a myth that choosing a more diverse school in MCPS gives you a better experience with racial equity. Its the exact opposite!

Ironically, I hear from friends in VA that it isn't as bad over there with the AAP system. I don't have direct experience with those schools so I can't confirm whether this is true. It might also be the case that MCPS is just so overly focused on race that this plays out negatively while VA is less focused on it. I personally would not live in VA so I don't know.

This problem in MCPS though is why so many higher SES black parents choose to live in PG and do private schools, or accept being one of the only black kids in a W school or being one of only a handful of black kids at a more elite predominantly white private school. There just are no good options.

You're really overgeneralizing here. This may be your particular experience, but calling it a "myth" is a bit much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Racial bias is very prevalent in our experience at one of the diverse schools in MCPS. When you have a school where the black kids are more often than not poor and not doing well in school teachers start stereotyping all black kids. It seems to be worse for boys than girls. Its small things like having lower expectations or assuming the worst about a kid.

The bigger problem is socially when the classes start splitting up into CES, compacted math, magnets, AP classes. The white kids fill up those classes and your kid is back to being one of the few black kids in the class even though you are in a diverse school. You don't want your kid hanging out with kids who are failing, skipping school and getting in trouble but it is not good that your kid has to reject being around the other black kids. The school within a school model in MCPS may attract more white people into certain neighborhoods but it doesn't provide a good environment for black kids. I suspect hispanic parents feel the same.


I am confused. Do you imply that for acadamically able AA students it is better for them to be in a school has less other AA students? Or do you think itis better for MCPS stopping offering advanced classes so everyone will be on the same page?

Not exactly. Ideally, there would be a school with a critical mass of academically able AA and white kids along with a critical mass of academically challenged AA and white kids. The problem is SES and race. In MCPS, AA usually means poor. Poor usually means academically challenged. White people in these schools do not understand what it is like when everyone else who looks like you is failing and everyone who doesn't look like you is succeeding. The CES, magnets and AP classes just magnify this by 100. Its a myth that choosing a more diverse school in MCPS gives you a better experience with racial equity. Its the exact opposite!

Ironically, I hear from friends in VA that it isn't as bad over there with the AAP system. I don't have direct experience with those schools so I can't confirm whether this is true. It might also be the case that MCPS is just so overly focused on race that this plays out negatively while VA is less focused on it. I personally would not live in VA so I don't know.

This problem in MCPS though is why so many higher SES black parents choose to live in PG and do private schools, or accept being one of the only black kids in a W school or being one of only a handful of black kids at a more elite predominantly white private school. There just are no good options.

This is so cynical. How do you explain kids like the new Student Member of the Board, a black young man who goes to Kennedy?

Kennedy is a mixed school - income and race. Its very different than a W school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Kennedy is a mixed school - income and race. Its very different than a W school.

Not really. Kennedy is as non-diverse as Whitman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Not exactly. Ideally, there would be a school with a critical mass of academically able AA and white kids along with a critical mass of academically challenged AA and white kids. The problem is SES and race. In MCPS, AA usually means poor. Poor usually means academically challenged. White people in these schools do not understand what it is like when everyone else who looks like you is failing and everyone who doesn't look like you is succeeding. The CES, magnets and AP classes just magnify this by 100. Its a myth that choosing a more diverse school in MCPS gives you a better experience with racial equity. Its the exact opposite!

Ironically, I hear from friends in VA that it isn't as bad over there with the AAP system. I don't have direct experience with those schools so I can't confirm whether this is true. It might also be the case that MCPS is just so overly focused on race that this plays out negatively while VA is less focused on it. I personally would not live in VA so I don't know.

This problem in MCPS though is why so many higher SES black parents choose to live in PG and do private schools, or accept being one of the only black kids in a W school or being one of only a handful of black kids at a more elite predominantly white private school. There just are no good options.

In 2017-2018, 21.4% of students in MCPS were black, and 10.8% of students in MCPS were black and on FARMS. In other words, half of black students in MCPS in 2017-2018 were NOT on FARMS.

When people assume that if you're black, you must have parents who are poor and have little education? That assumption is part of the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Kennedy is a mixed school - income and race. Its very different than a W school.

Not really. Kennedy is as non-diverse as Whitman.

+1

It’s like the mirror image. I taught at Kennedy early in my career with MCPS. My Honors and AP classes were somewhat diverse, but my on-level classes never had white students and only had Asian students who were ESOL 2 or 3. This was the case even when it was clear that white students were inappropriately placed in Honors (based on their ability and work ethic). I think they were bunched together to reduce having one be the only white student in class. In contrast, it was very difficult to get the counseling office to approve a transfer into Honors for an AA or Latino student who showed promise. The answer was always to wait until next marking period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hello,

I’m considering a move to MCPS with my black family. I know it to be a wonderful area but I’ve recently been discouraged after reading some of the anti blackness and Dog-whistling that occurs on these forums. I know this forum isn’t representative of all parents/teachers/students in Montgomery County but I’m curious of how your child of color has experienced the district and how often you and they experiences instances of racism & bias in real life in the schools.

Thanks

Oh Lordy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Racial bias is very prevalent in our experience at one of the diverse schools in MCPS. When you have a school where the black kids are more often than not poor and not doing well in school teachers start stereotyping all black kids. It seems to be worse for boys than girls. Its small things like having lower expectations or assuming the worst about a kid.

The bigger problem is socially when the classes start splitting up into CES, compacted math, magnets, AP classes. The white kids fill up those classes and your kid is back to being one of the few black kids in the class even though you are in a diverse school. You don't want your kid hanging out with kids who are failing, skipping school and getting in trouble but it is not good that your kid has to reject being around the other black kids. The school within a school model in MCPS may attract more white people into certain neighborhoods but it doesn't provide a good environment for black kids. I suspect hispanic parents feel the same.


I am confused. Do you imply that for acadamically able AA students it is better for them to be in a school has less other AA students? Or do you think itis better for MCPS stopping offering advanced classes so everyone will be on the same page?

Not exactly. Ideally, there would be a school with a critical mass of academically able AA and white kids along with a critical mass of academically challenged AA and white kids. The problem is SES and race. In MCPS, AA usually means poor. Poor usually means academically challenged. White people in these schools do not understand what it is like when everyone else who looks like you is failing and everyone who doesn't look like you is succeeding. The CES, magnets and AP classes just magnify this by 100. Its a myth that choosing a more diverse school in MCPS gives you a better experience with racial equity. Its the exact opposite!

Ironically, I hear from friends in VA that it isn't as bad over there with the AAP system. I don't have direct experience with those schools so I can't confirm whether this is true. It might also be the case that MCPS is just so overly focused on race that this plays out negatively while VA is less focused on it. I personally would not live in VA so I don't know.

This problem in MCPS though is why so many higher SES black parents choose to live in PG and do private schools, or accept being one of the only black kids in a W school or being one of only a handful of black kids at a more elite predominantly white private school. There just are no good options.

This is so cynical. How do you explain kids like the new Student Member of the Board, a black young man who goes to Kennedy?

This is like responding to a black person discussing a negative experience in the US by saying, how do you explain Obama? I think pp's points are right on. (Many!) years ago I was one of the few black kids in the advanced classes. I don't know if a different experience would have been better, but it was problematic enough that now we are choosing to live in PG and do private school. We had a great experience in the Prince George's elementary school but never heard anything good about the middle school from anyone. I agree that there are no good options!

[Anonymous]

TPES/PBES in 20912 and ESS in 20910 are your safest bet for school and neighborhood in the DCC. There are also a few language immersion ES. If your kids are gifted, they will have middle and high school magnet options.

Both my kids had the experience of being the only AA kids or one of two in certain classes. Until HS, that was my older DD’s sole experience. My younger DD rotates her classes with another kid from a middle class AA family, 1-2 kids from African immigrant families, or the handful of black kids adopted by white parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not exactly. Ideally, there would be a school with a critical mass of academically able AA and white kids along with a critical mass of academically challenged AA and white kids. The problem is SES and race. In MCPS, AA usually means poor. Poor usually means academically challenged. White people in these schools do not understand what it is like when everyone else who looks like you is failing and everyone who doesn't look like you is succeeding. The CES, magnets and AP classes just magnify this by 100. Its a myth that choosing a more diverse school in MCPS gives you a better experience with racial equity. Its the exact opposite!

Ironically, I hear from friends in VA that it isn't as bad over there with the AAP system. I don't have direct experience with those schools so I can't confirm whether this is true. It might also be the case that MCPS is just so overly focused on race that this plays out negatively while VA is less focused on it. I personally would not live in VA so I don't know.

This problem in MCPS though is why so many higher SES black parents choose to live in PG and do private schools, or accept being one of the only black kids in a W school or being one of only a handful of black kids at a more elite predominantly white private school. There just are no good options.

In 2017-2018, 21.4% of students in MCPS were black, and 10.8% of students in MCPS were black and on FARMS. In other words, half of black students in MCPS in 2017-2018 were NOT on FARMS.

When people assume that if you're black, you must have parents who are poor and have little education? That assumption is part of the problem.

I read a study recently looking at the achievement gap. There are no school districts in the US where blacks are at the same level academically as whites. Even in areas where there isn't much of a difference in SES this gap exists. MCPS certainly isn't going to fix it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I read a study recently looking at the achievement gap. There are no school districts in the US where blacks are at the same level academically as whites. Even in areas where there isn't much of a difference in SES this gap exists. MCPS certainly isn't going to fix it.

Not to worry, MCPS will spend countless resources and efforts on this, while ignoring other more pressing issues like school security, curriculum reform, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not exactly. Ideally, there would be a school with a critical mass of academically able AA and white kids along with a critical mass of academically challenged AA and white kids. The problem is SES and race. In MCPS, AA usually means poor. Poor usually means academically challenged. White people in these schools do not understand what it is like when everyone else who looks like you is failing and everyone who doesn't look like you is succeeding. The CES, magnets and AP classes just magnify this by 100. Its a myth that choosing a more diverse school in MCPS gives you a better experience with racial equity. Its the exact opposite!

Ironically, I hear from friends in VA that it isn't as bad over there with the AAP system. I don't have direct experience with those schools so I can't confirm whether this is true. It might also be the case that MCPS is just so overly focused on race that this plays out negatively while VA is less focused on it. I personally would not live in VA so I don't know.

This problem in MCPS though is why so many higher SES black parents choose to live in PG and do private schools, or accept being one of the only black kids in a W school or being one of only a handful of black kids at a more elite predominantly white private school. There just are no good options.

In 2017-2018, 21.4% of students in MCPS were black, and 10.8% of students in MCPS were black and on FARMS. In other words, half of black students in MCPS in 2017-2018 were NOT on FARMS.

When people assume that if you're black, you must have parents who are poor and have little education? That assumption is part of the problem.

I read a study recently looking at the achievement gap. There are no school districts in the US where blacks are at the same level academically as whites. Even in areas where there isn't much of a difference in SES this gap exists. MCPS certainly isn't going to fix it.

Your comment is entirely irrelevant to this thread. Start your own thread if you w ant to discuss this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not exactly. Ideally, there would be a school with a critical mass of academically able AA and white kids along with a critical mass of academically challenged AA and white kids. The problem is SES and race. In MCPS, AA usually means poor. Poor usually means academically challenged. White people in these schools do not understand what it is like when everyone else who looks like you is failing and everyone who doesn't look like you is succeeding. The CES, magnets and AP classes just magnify this by 100. Its a myth that choosing a more diverse school in MCPS gives you a better experience with racial equity. Its the exact opposite!

Ironically, I hear from friends in VA that it isn't as bad over there with the AAP system. I don't have direct experience with those schools so I can't confirm whether this is true. It might also be the case that MCPS is just so overly focused on race that this plays out negatively while VA is less focused on it. I personally would not live in VA so I don't know.

This problem in MCPS though is why so many higher SES black parents choose to live in PG and do private schools, or accept being one of the only black kids in a W school or being one of only a handful of black kids at a more elite predominantly white private school. There just are no good options.

In 2017-2018, 21.4% of students in MCPS were black, and 10.8% of students in MCPS were black and on FARMS. In other words, half of black students in MCPS in 2017-2018 were NOT on FARMS.

When people assume that if you're black, you must have parents who are poor and have little education? That assumption is part of the problem.

I guess you're looking at this:
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/county.pdf

So let's look at all races:

Black: 21.4 / 10.8 = 50% of students are FARMS
Hispanic: 30.8 / 12.2 = 40% of students on FARMS
Asian: 14.4 / < 5% on FARMS = up to 34% of students on FARMS
White: 28.3 / < 5% on FARMS = up to 18% of students on FARMS

For Asian and Whites the FARMS numbers are so low they just report them as "less than 5%" without giving an exact number.

Nonetheless, a betting person trying to make assumptions about FARMS based on race would be best off assuming the Black child is the one and they'd be right half the time. It's sad, but I don't think this is a result of MCPS, but rather broader society as well as demographics. I don't think this is entirely on MCPS's shoulders to fix.

In some ways, being classified as FARMS is a good thing -- it means those children are receiving free breakfast and lunch at school, and that can help to address issues at home.

[Anonymous]

07:47, the problem isn’t just that some vague general “people” assume your middle class AA kid is on FARMs. The issue is that school staff are making decisions about your child are made based on that assumption. I’ve witnessed this as both a parent and a teacher. I always call out my colleagues over it. “What does Larlo’s file say? Look, he isn’t marked FARMs in My MCPS teacher view.” And there are attendant assumptions about whether there are two parents in the home or if the parents are educated. I taught an Asian FARMs student last year. He was a C student of immigrant parents and not one of the white teachers on our team ever brought him up for Kid Talk. But they kept bringing up three AA and HI non-FARMs boys who were C students. It wasn’t a classroom behavioral difference. They simply didn’t realize the Asian boy was FARMs.