Does anyone on this forum think nursing homes are horrific?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mom's parents both died before this became an issue.
My dad's mother lived to be 99. In the last two years of her life the money left to her ran out. My dad did next to nothing. Let her "friend" take care of things. Grandma ended up in a Medicaid facility in Broward County. It was horrific. She declined very rapidly after that.

I resent my dad so much for not doing anything for her. He's gonna get the same.

Have you checked out the annual cost or even just the monthly cost of a nursing home? Your dad probably couldn't afford to move her anywhere better.

20 years ago when my dad was in a nursing home it cost 48K/year and that was for the basics. And, since you have no idea how long they'll live you don't know if they'll be there for 1 year or 20 years. How do you budget for that and try to keep a roof over your own head at the same time?

You just have to pick the lesser of the evils in that situation. It's sad.

Many people work their entire lives and still never can save at a minimum wage job. Think about all the service workers and workers who work at the nursing homes on minimum wage. People make it so easy but its not.

Most middle class families could not afford to pay the cost of nursing home care for their relative. It's not a matter of coming up with a few hundred extra dollars every month, it's a matter of coming up with thousands of dollars every month. Who can do that?

If you're living within your means, saving for your own retirement, paying for your kids' college on a middle class income there is simply not that much extra left over. For low income individuals it's even more impossible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mom's parents both died before this became an issue.
My dad's mother lived to be 99. In the last two years of her life the money left to her ran out. My dad did next to nothing. Let her "friend" take care of things. Grandma ended up in a Medicaid facility in Broward County. It was horrific. She declined very rapidly after that.

I resent my dad so much for not doing anything for her. He's gonna get the same.

Why didn't you help? My MIL is in a medicaid unit. We'd love to do more but we cannot afford to. You have no idea what its like. I was the primary caretaker in my home for a year. I could not leave her alone which meant my kids could not go to preschool or their therapy appointments often and the adult day care was horrible so that was not an option nor could she ride in the car much. I spend my days filing complaints, dealing with the ombudsman, adult protective services, etc. but we cannot move her because few facilities will take medicaid (I have tried several times).

I was in college, living hand to mouth, taking classes full-time and working almost full-time. I saved her from being evicted from her apartment and being put out on the street because I visited her at just the right time and saw paperwork in her kitchen. I insisted to my father she couldn’t keep living on her own after watching her struggle through her daily routine and piss herself all day long. I did the best I could at the time to hold his feet to the fire and even then he needed handholding from his cousin. When the money from my great-uncle’s estate ran out and she was kicked out of her decent nursing home, she went to some random Medicaid facility that was horrible. By this time I was living on my own in DC making $40k a year, maybe 10 years ago. I gave him every single possible informational resource to find her a better place. He signed over power of attorney to her “friend” (who we suspect stole from her) and refused to do anything.

I visited her when she first moved into that place and right before she died and the decline was unbelieveable. Yes she was very old. But she didn’t deserve for my dad to abandon her like that.

I'm sorry about your grandma, Op. There is no excuse for your dad to have totally abandoned her like that. He must have been avoiding going to visit her because seeing her in that place was too hard for him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mom's parents both died before this became an issue.
My dad's mother lived to be 99. In the last two years of her life the money left to her ran out. My dad did next to nothing. Let her "friend" take care of things. Grandma ended up in a Medicaid facility in Broward County. It was horrific. She declined very rapidly after that.

I resent my dad so much for not doing anything for her. He's gonna get the same.

Why didn't you help? My MIL is in a medicaid unit. We'd love to do more but we cannot afford to. You have no idea what its like. I was the primary caretaker in my home for a year. I could not leave her alone which meant my kids could not go to preschool or their therapy appointments often and the adult day care was horrible so that was not an option nor could she ride in the car much. I spend my days filing complaints, dealing with the ombudsman, adult protective services, etc. but we cannot move her because few facilities will take medicaid (I have tried several times).

I was in college, living hand to mouth, taking classes full-time and working almost full-time. I saved her from being evicted from her apartment and being put out on the street because I visited her at just the right time and saw paperwork in her kitchen. I insisted to my father she couldn’t keep living on her own after watching her struggle through her daily routine and piss herself all day long. I did the best I could at the time to hold his feet to the fire and even then he needed handholding from his cousin. When the money from my great-uncle’s estate ran out and she was kicked out of her decent nursing home, she went to some random Medicaid facility that was horrible. By this time I was living on my own in DC making $40k a year, maybe 10 years ago. I gave him every single possible informational resource to find her a better place. He signed over power of attorney to her “friend” (who we suspect stole from her) and refused to do anything.

I visited her when she first moved into that place and right before she died and the decline was unbelieveable. Yes she was very old. But she didn’t deserve for my dad to abandon her like that.

"Information" wasn't going to do him any good unless a cheap, high quality place actually existed. Which it probably didn't. What he lacked was not information, but money.

[Anonymous]

As others have already mentioned, the fact that Americans are living so much longer (an average of 88 years) means that the last 10 years of life pose a big problem. Here is what I have observed.

1. Middle-aged adults complain quite a lot about having to help with caring for elderly parents. (For numerous examples, check out the DCUrbanMom forum for Midlife Concerns & Eldercare. https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/forums/show/51.page). My parents are completely independent (in their 70's), but I am shocked to read the bitter complaints about the misery of caring for elderly parents. It sounds pretty bad.)

2. Financial advisors warn that it is harmful to one's financial health to retire early to take care of elderly parents. (Some middle-aged women still feel obliged to do this. I can only see retiring early if the elderly parents are planning to help the middle-aged daughter financially.)

3. The current elderly generation likely did not have to care for elderly parents themselves, as their own parents did not live until 90 years old (as so many do now).

4. No one wants to be a burden to their children.

5. It seems unfortunate that many Americans work so hard to save, only to burn through that money for nursing home care in the later years of life.

6. It all makes me wonder if it's worth living to 90 years old. I can see living to 85 years, but 90 years seems a bridge too far. Of course ,there is so much variation -- one person can be in terrible shape at 90, whereas another can be in great shape for 90 (all things considered).

[Anonymous]

I’m writing this at a bar, drinking a special drink that my dad loved, in honor of his life. He passed this past week. I want to say that hospice was wonderful. He had a cancer diagnosis, and at age 89, he announced he was done and begged for assisted suicide. After making it to my mom’s 80th birthday (they were married nearly 60 years!), my dad entered hospice and died at home on Wednesday. My mom was at his bedside with her hand on his cheek, and I was right next to him. It’s the best outcome I could have imagined, but there are no good outcomes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m writing this at a bar, drinking a special drink that my dad loved, in honor of his life. He passed this past week. I want to say that hospice was wonderful. He had a cancer diagnosis, and at age 89, he announced he was done and begged for assisted suicide. After making it to my mom’s 80th birthday (they were married nearly 60 years!), my dad entered hospice and died at home on Wednesday. My mom was at his bedside with her hand on his cheek, and I was right next to him. It’s the best outcome I could have imagined, but there are no good outcomes.

Hospice is different and not the topic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mom's parents both died before this became an issue.
My dad's mother lived to be 99. In the last two years of her life the money left to her ran out. My dad did next to nothing. Let her "friend" take care of things. Grandma ended up in a Medicaid facility in Broward County. It was horrific. She declined very rapidly after that.

I resent my dad so much for not doing anything for her. He's gonna get the same.

Why didn't you help? My MIL is in a medicaid unit. We'd love to do more but we cannot afford to. You have no idea what its like. I was the primary caretaker in my home for a year. I could not leave her alone which meant my kids could not go to preschool or their therapy appointments often and the adult day care was horrible so that was not an option nor could she ride in the car much. I spend my days filing complaints, dealing with the ombudsman, adult protective services, etc. but we cannot move her because few facilities will take medicaid (I have tried several times).

I was in college, living hand to mouth, taking classes full-time and working almost full-time. I saved her from being evicted from her apartment and being put out on the street because I visited her at just the right time and saw paperwork in her kitchen. I insisted to my father she couldn’t keep living on her own after watching her struggle through her daily routine and piss herself all day long. I did the best I could at the time to hold his feet to the fire and even then he needed handholding from his cousin. When the money from my great-uncle’s estate ran out and she was kicked out of her decent nursing home, she went to some random Medicaid facility that was horrible. By this time I was living on my own in DC making $40k a year, maybe 10 years ago. I gave him every single possible informational resource to find her a better place. He signed over power of attorney to her “friend” (who we suspect stole from her) and refused to do anything.

I visited her when she first moved into that place and right before she died and the decline was unbelieveable. Yes she was very old. But she didn’t deserve for my dad to abandon her like that.

"Information" wasn't going to do him any good unless a cheap, high quality place actually existed. Which it probably didn't. What he lacked was not information, but money.

There are some places with sliding fee scales for independent and assisted living but its minimal help and usually an apartment with a meal or two a day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Two words: Vinson Hall. If you are a military family, you have it made. The condos are relatively cheap (if you are old, but do not require much care), and the care in the care facility part is outstanding. It is a damn shame that such a small segment of the population is allowed this level of care.

My friend's MIL is there, and it is night and day compared to regular, very day type care facilities that you and I can afford. There are tons of different military retirement facilities, this is just one example.

They only take Officers and spouses, not Enlisted.

They should take enlisted. That seems really elitist to me. In fact, everyday man should have an option as good as this. If you are married to an officer, what is the reasoning? That "you suffered so much crap" you should be able to live there? And other people haven't suffered so much crap? Pulease.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Two words: Vinson Hall. If you are a military family, you have it made. The condos are relatively cheap (if you are old, but do not require much care), and the care in the care facility part is outstanding. It is a damn shame that such a small segment of the population is allowed this level of care.

My friend's MIL is there, and it is night and day compared to regular, very day type care facilities that you and I can afford. There are tons of different military retirement facilities, this is just one example.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong but it looks like the pricing is like $300 per day for the cheaper units there so about $9,000 per month. I'm not sure I would call that cheap.

You buy the condo you live in, presumably with proceeds from the sale of a house. Not that different than other non medicaid facilities, except you own (or your family owns) a condo, when you die. The next person on the list then buys your condo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No, but for the first 15 years of my life, my great-grandma lived in one. No matter when we went to visit, the place was clean, she was clean and happy, she would show us art she made, introduce us to her friends who lived there, take us on a tour, etc. Her room was bright and sunny, the people who worked there were kind and remembered us, etc.

She was insistent that she did not want to be a burden on family so didn't want to live with her kids or grandkids when she couldn't live by herself anymore. Maybe if she'd lived in a shithole, I'd have a different view of nursing homes.

Where and how did she afford it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Three of my great grandparents ended their days in the best, priciest nursing homes money can buy, and only after we were no longer able to care for them in family members' homes. One died of Parkinsons, and his last years were agony. He lay in bed and could not move or speak for two years. Another had a stroke, and spent several years in an immobile state: humiliating and agonizing for a previously active, private person.

It was horrific, and it broke each of their hearts to have to leave their homes. And those places WERE horrific.

My beloved grandma had to go into assisted living (again, the very best money can buy), and I will never forget her sorrow the day we helped her pack up to move. It was terrible. It broke something in her.

Those places are horrific for anyone who is a private person who values a home that is a refuge from the world. They are maybe OK for somebody who did not love and cherish a beautiful house for many years, and who does not mind being surrounded by others all of the time, and has a close family member who can visit every single day.

I know I will be miserable in one of those places myself, and I don't want to waste the money it would take to maintain me there when that money could go to my family. I hope euthanasia is an option when my time comes. If it isn't, I'll make a plan to go to Dignitas while I'm still healthy enough to get there myself. That doesn't seem so bad to me, especially when I remember the horrible final years of my great grandparents and grandparents who ended up in nursing homes and assisted living.

It is not good for anyone, old or young, to be a hermit and place value only on the physical structure.

[Anonymous]

Hi. I’m an LPN (a nurse a step below an RN) and a frequent poster here (I’m sure Jeff will cooberate if you want that ). I worked in nursing homes in various roles for a decade. I can tell you sincerely that most of us nurses, CNAs, and dietary workers wanted the best for your family members. We were limited by staffing ratios and just general time. I barely had time to pee a couple times a shift. So yes, nursing homes are always great. We apologize

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here- the only additional thing I will flag is that taking care of an older person can be back breaking work, but if it’s a relative you love, it also give a sense of closure and a contour to the end of life. I see a lot of people on this post who also recognize how much is wrong about this system, so that gives me hope.

With all the boomers retiring they really need to give a tax credit for those who have the elderly in their home, just like they give a child tax credit.

I worry about the situation described by the poster who had an elderly relative, confined to a wheel chair being basically left alone all day while caregivers worked full time jobs outside of the home.

She had a roof over her head and food but the quality of her care was exceptionally low to non-existent.

Ok, so who will pay for care in the home. Its a huge issue. If you had an issue with it, you could have offered to help. A tax credit would not help us at all as a few thousand will pay for what a month of care at best? What about the extra space we need due to a small house? What about all the extra expenses like depends that medicaid covers in a nursing home vs. will not pay if at home?

I think that most of the time in a situation like that the person is much better off in a nursing home, even if it's a Medicaid bed. They simply require a level of care that most home situations simply can not handle. If the elderly person falls during the day who would know? If the elderly person doesn't take their meds or burns themselves on the stove or puts something on the stove and forgets about it - who will know if the caregiver in the house is at work? Dropping by to help every now and then wouldn't change a thing - it would still not be a great situation 95% of the time.

[Anonymous]

People also forget that the current generation of 80 and 90 yos did not have the knowledge about nutrition and exercise that we have today. How many 90 yo women did strength training when they were younger? It wasn't a thing so of course, they;re now filling up nursing homes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People also forget that the current generation of 80 and 90 yos did not have the knowledge about nutrition and exercise that we have today. How many 90 yo women did strength training when they were younger? It wasn't a thing so of course, they;re now filling up nursing homes.

The elderly may not have made a concerted effort to exercise when they were younger but they likely did a lot more physical work around the house, in the yard, with the kids than many of the younger generation do now. Back in the day, only rich families had maids and yard service, now a good percentage of people hire that work done.