Do you excuse sexist or racist behavior from a older relative because of their age?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My grandpa, born in the late 20s, who passed a few years ago did still use the terms oriental and colored. It was cringey, of course, but he truly only used them conversationally, not derisively. It was clearly just his carried over habit of how to describe an Asian or person of color. And he didn't do it publicly. He was actually quite progressive/liberal for his age and geographic location. So, while we didn't love the terms, I don't think correcting him would have broken his habits.

This is confusing to me. If he didn't do it publicly, doesn't that mean he was aware his terms were problematic? If he's able to (appropriately) censor himself to speak appropriately in public why not do so in private? Doesn't that make it worse?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I tolerate a little bit of it from my relatives. What I do not tolerate however is watching Fox or listening to Limbaugh. Family members who consume that hate make a choice: Fox/Limbaugh or me.

You sound lovely. Some people get their endorphin rush from watching Fox, some from watching MSNBC. It's all a race to the bottom, and if you watch MSNBC, you are just as guilty of the hate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My grandpa, born in the late 20s, who passed a few years ago did still use the terms oriental and colored. It was cringey, of course, but he truly only used them conversationally, not derisively. It was clearly just his carried over habit of how to describe an Asian or person of color. And he didn't do it publicly. He was actually quite progressive/liberal for his age and geographic location. So, while we didn't love the terms, I don't think correcting him would have broken his habits.

The usage is derisive, do you understand, it is derisive. If no one is referring to you in that manner, then you do not get to make that call.
SHEESH -- this is tiring. The goal may not be to change the person, it is to POINT OUT WHAT IS WRONG.
SMDH!!!

dp: Your understanding of it and my understanding of the terms are that they are derisive. I don’t use the terms.

But for a 90 year old or whoever grew up thinking that “Colored” was just regular, non-judgmental vocabulary— the way we use “African American” today — it’s absurd to say that it is inherently derisive when their mind makes no such association. It’s not much different than an ESL person using the wrong word, or a 7 year old thinking it’s funny to call people “suckah!” with no concept of a sexual connotation.

Intent matters. If you judge people solely by the words they use, with zero consideration for good or ill intent, you will make a lot of errant assessments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tolerate a little bit of it from my relatives. What I do not tolerate however is watching Fox or listening to Limbaugh. Family members who consume that hate make a choice: Fox/Limbaugh or me.

You sound lovely. Some people get their endorphin rush from watching Fox, some from watching MSNBC. It's all a race to the bottom, and if you watch MSNBC, you are just as guilty of the hate.

+1000 I think of the Democratic Party as the hate party. They ready to spread the hate anytime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My grandpa, born in the late 20s, who passed a few years ago did still use the terms oriental and colored. It was cringey, of course, but he truly only used them conversationally, not derisively. It was clearly just his carried over habit of how to describe an Asian or person of color. And he didn't do it publicly. He was actually quite progressive/liberal for his age and geographic location. So, while we didn't love the terms, I don't think correcting him would have broken his habits.

The usage is derisive, do you understand, it is derisive. If no one is referring to you in that manner, then you do not get to make that call.
SHEESH -- this is tiring. The goal may not be to change the person, it is to POINT OUT WHAT IS WRONG.
SMDH!!!

dp: Your understanding of it and my understanding of the terms are that they are derisive. I don’t use the terms.

But for a 90 year old or whoever grew up thinking that “Colored” was just regular, non-judgmental vocabulary— the way we use “African American” today — it’s absurd to say that it is inherently derisive when their mind makes no such association. It’s not much different than an ESL person using the wrong word, or a 7 year old thinking it’s funny to call people “suckah!” with no concept of a sexual connotation.

Intent matters. If you judge people solely by the words they use, with zero consideration for good or ill intent, you will make a lot of errant assessments.

Intent matters but no more than how it was received!!! EFFECT MATTERS MORE. I may not have intended to hit you with my car but it damn sure matters that I ran your ass over!!!!
And then you want to provide emergency aide to the driver, not the person bleeding in the street.
And those terms were not inocuous -- they were created and used as ways of being disrespectful, dehumanizing and demeaning to people of color. Do you not realize that? do you not realize that in a most of those situations people "thought" they were treating black folks "kindly", at least to the point that they believed they deserved it? They were looked down upon, thought less of and when push came to shove, their humanity was less important than the white person's. So I don't give a darn if your grand pappy was not trying to be mean, I do not care if he "thought" it was ok -- when you know better you do better.
What is so difficult to understand????

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I correct my parents but they are pretty good. Not hateful just have said one or two things over the years that are ignorant. But my ILs are willfully ignorant racists. There’s usually at least one zinger when we visit. I leave the room and seethe. However if anyone were around that might be hurt by their comments I’d correct them on the spot.

You are hurt by it. Your are hurt if you do not say something. That's what some of you do not realize-- you feel as if, 'oh well, they are old, or no one of color is around so I will not take the intellectual and EMOTIONAL energy to say something'. That means you are PARTICIPATING in their ignorance. And once again, THOSE OF US WHO ARE ON THE RECEIVING END, THOSE OF US WHO HAVE TO HANDLE THE FIRST TIME THEIR KID(S) IS CALLED A "N*****" HAVE TO DEAL WITH THIS CRAP THAT YOU DON'T WANT TO EXPEND THE ENERGY ON.
IT DOES NOT MATTER IF THEY DO NOT HAVE SOME MIRACULOUS EPIPHANY -- WHAT MATTERS IS THAT THEY KNOW AND UNDERSTAND THAT YOU WILL NOT TOLERATE THAT BEHAVIOUR.
IF YOUR 50 YR OLD DAD OR 90 YR WERE SHOPLIFTING IN FRONT OF YOU -- YOU IGNORE IT?
MISS ME WITH THE BS

Thank you for responding. My in-laws would never use the n-word. I would cut them out of my life if they did. It's nothing as bad as that. It's political talk that I find to be ignorant. My in-laws also don't interact with anyone in the world except their sons and elderly friends. They almost never leave the house.

Just to be clear, I was not insinuating that your in-laws would use that word, it was an explanation of the life experience of those of us who live at the other end of the insults/epithets/ugliness which is the topic of this thread.

Yes, and I understand it. I have watched as people use racial slurs against my friends. I have experience misogyny. And I have been fortunate enough to have some friends who were willing to open up to me about their harrowing experiences as we contemplate a post-Trump world. I am as aware as a white person can be of the constant barrage of sh!t that people of color receive. I mean, my FIL also says misogynistic things. So, yeah, receiving end. I still think it's DH's job to speak up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tolerate a little bit of it from my relatives. What I do not tolerate however is watching Fox or listening to Limbaugh. Family members who consume that hate make a choice: Fox/Limbaugh or me.

You sound lovely. Some people get their endorphin rush from watching Fox, some from watching MSNBC. It's all a race to the bottom, and if you watch MSNBC, you are just as guilty of the hate.

+1000 I think of the Democratic Party as the hate party. They ready to spread the hate anytime.

Hilarious given that the literal Nazis in this country love Trump and the GOP. Freakin' lalaland with you idiots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I correct my parents but they are pretty good. Not hateful just have said one or two things over the years that are ignorant. But my ILs are willfully ignorant racists. There’s usually at least one zinger when we visit. I leave the room and seethe. However if anyone were around that might be hurt by their comments I’d correct them on the spot.

You are hurt by it. Your are hurt if you do not say something. That's what some of you do not realize-- you feel as if, 'oh well, they are old, or no one of color is around so I will not take the intellectual and EMOTIONAL energy to say something'. That means you are PARTICIPATING in their ignorance. And once again, THOSE OF US WHO ARE ON THE RECEIVING END, THOSE OF US WHO HAVE TO HANDLE THE FIRST TIME THEIR KID(S) IS CALLED A "N*****" HAVE TO DEAL WITH THIS CRAP THAT YOU DON'T WANT TO EXPEND THE ENERGY ON.
IT DOES NOT MATTER IF THEY DO NOT HAVE SOME MIRACULOUS EPIPHANY -- WHAT MATTERS IS THAT THEY KNOW AND UNDERSTAND THAT YOU WILL NOT TOLERATE THAT BEHAVIOUR.
IF YOUR 50 YR OLD DAD OR 90 YR WERE SHOPLIFTING IN FRONT OF YOU -- YOU IGNORE IT?
MISS ME WITH THE BS

Thank you for responding. My in-laws would never use the n-word. I would cut them out of my life if they did. It's nothing as bad as that. It's political talk that I find to be ignorant. My in-laws also don't interact with anyone in the world except their sons and elderly friends. They almost never leave the house.

Just to be clear, I was not insinuating that your in-laws would use that word, it was an explanation of the life experience of those of us who live at the other end of the insults/epithets/ugliness which is the topic of this thread.

Yes, and I understand it. I have watched as people use racial slurs against my friends. I have experience misogyny. And I have been fortunate enough to have some friends who were willing to open up to me about their harrowing experiences as we contemplate a post-Trump world. I am as aware as a white person can be of the constant barrage of sh!t that people of color receive. I mean, my FIL also says misogynistic things. So, yeah, receiving end. I still think it's DH's job to speak up.

Why ?? Sometimes my FIL says stupid stuff and I say something(so does my MIL - LOLOL)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tolerate a little bit of it from my relatives. What I do not tolerate however is watching Fox or listening to Limbaugh. Family members who consume that hate make a choice: Fox/Limbaugh or me.

You sound lovely. Some people get their endorphin rush from watching Fox, some from watching MSNBC. It's all a race to the bottom, and if you watch MSNBC, you are just as guilty of the hate.

+1000 I think of the Democratic Party as the hate party. They ready to spread the hate anytime.

Hilarious given that the literal Nazis in this country love Trump and the GOP. Freakin' lalaland with you idiots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My grandpa, born in the late 20s, who passed a few years ago did still use the terms oriental and colored. It was cringey, of course, but he truly only used them conversationally, not derisively. It was clearly just his carried over habit of how to describe an Asian or person of color. And he didn't do it publicly. He was actually quite progressive/liberal for his age and geographic location. So, while we didn't love the terms, I don't think correcting him would have broken his habits.

The usage is derisive, do you understand, it is derisive. If no one is referring to you in that manner, then you do not get to make that call.
SHEESH -- this is tiring. The goal may not be to change the person, it is to POINT OUT WHAT IS WRONG.
SMDH!!!

dp: Your understanding of it and my understanding of the terms are that they are derisive. I don’t use the terms.

But for a 90 year old or whoever grew up thinking that “Colored” was just regular, non-judgmental vocabulary— the way we use “African American” today — it’s absurd to say that it is inherently derisive when their mind makes no such association. It’s not much different than an ESL person using the wrong word, or a 7 year old thinking it’s funny to call people “suckah!” with no concept of a sexual connotation.

Intent matters. If you judge people solely by the words they use, with zero consideration for good or ill intent, you will make a lot of errant assessments.

Just so we are clear -- this language is not "non-judgemental", exactly the opposite. It is the loaded language that speaks to accepted devaluation of an entire group of people.
So yes, this was ACCEPTED language by those that created and used it. But acceptance is not synonomous with good OR harmless.

[Anonymous]

Older people have gone through many versions of the ever changing correct way to address the third party person (who isn’t even there) and they either haven’t kept up or see the virtue signaling for the obnoxious thing it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Older people have gone through many versions of the ever changing correct way to address the third party person (who isn’t even there) and they either haven’t kept up or see the virtue signaling for the obnoxious thing it is.

Aha -- addressing people directly or talking about people in a manner that is respectful of their person and humanity is virtue signaling. Good to know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You are quick to jump in with your judgement and corrections. It’s really uglier than saying oriental or colored.

Says the person who has never been hurt by racism or sexism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Respect your elders. Of course they can say whatever they want.

No, they cannot. If the want respect, they need to earn it.