Being a teen class clown is getting very dangerous in school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jeez, the sanctimommies are out in force tonight!

How about you impose consequences on your children with dyslexia for reading slowly and on your kids with autism for humming and spinning? How about you stop excusing their behavior, eh?

Go back to your first graders, sanctimommies. Adolescence will catch up to you know-it-alls soon enough. Put down your pitchforks and offer something constructive or go the eff away.

This is the Special Needs Board. Most of us have had children who were bullied or teased because they were a little different than the others. I think this explains why we are view this situation severely.

Many of us have children with ADHD, who do not react this way in class. So we have difficulty believing that a child, ostensibly with a disorder that is familiar to us, can act in a way so extremely different from our children with the same disorder. Of course we know that ADHD presents differently for each patient, and we also know that it's TERRIBLE to blame a parent for the actions of their child. But... there is a doubt here. Why does this middle schooler not understand where the line is? Or if he does, is there any way to better control his impulsivity?

Who knows? He might become the next great comic of our time! OP can tell him that, to keep his spirits up, but in a school environment, he MUST keep his mouth shut. His own safety is at stake.

I'm the parent of the Jewish kid who made the Hitler joke. Do you think that went over quietly in our house? Gosh that was fun. He knew he was in for it, too. He knew it was beyond inappropriate, and he was apologetic and had detention and wrote a letter of apology.

But he was still in the principal's office a week later, for making another inappropriate joke.

The point is, for kids who are stimulation-seekers -- and probably also a certain kind of extrovert, as my son is -- it is satisfying *because* it is inappropriate. The rule-breaking is a rush. The laughter is a rush. My kid knows precisely where the line is: boredom on one side, risk and reward on the other.

This is totally new, btw. Never ever had a discipline issue in high school until... 8th grade.

This kind of impulse control is a huge, huge problem with SOME teens with ADHD -- not all of course but it's very, very well-documented. Blaming a parent who is HERE ASKING FOR HELP is just low. I guess it makes some folks feel better about themselves or something.

Ironically, it doesn't actually help the teacher or the kids targeted by the joke. But some advice about impulse control might!

And please don't talk about consequences. Everyone here has made it through toddlerhood, and we all know that consequences only help when a person has the capacity to CONTROL THEIR IMPULSES. This is pretty basic stuff.

PP you responded to.

Thank you for explaining that your child gets a kick out of the impropriety of his joke, despite knowing how the teacher (and other kids) might view the joke.

I did not mention consequences, BTW, and did point out it was an impulse problem. Can your son control himself better when his meds are tweaked? Have you tried role-playing together, or has a therapist tried this approach?

My own 14 year old made a Hitler joke when he was 8 (not Jewish), in front of dinner guests whose jaws dropped to the floor. Luckily, they're long-time friends and gave him the benefit of the doubt. DS stopped doing that before middle school, and I thought it was due to a combination of meds plus our intense pressure/explanation/training...but perhaps it's also that he finds those kinds of jokes intrinsically less self-rewarding than your son or OP's son?

Anyway. It's good to discuss these things, even if tempers flare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^ So everyone on this board claiming their sons CANNOT CONTROL their impulses - what’s your plan for when your boys get to High School? College?

Are you going to keep blaming the teachers for trying to stop them from sexually harassing girls? What if the verbal abuse no longer gets the same reaction with the older kids and he decides he needs to up his game?

And even if you manage to shield him from all accountability with your ADHD diagnosis, what are you going to do when he’s 18????

As a scientist, I would love to know whether these same boys are medicated for their ADHD, and whether their meds are being prescribed by a pediatrician or a psychologist, and whether they have tried changing the medication and/or the dosage as part of their attempt to decreased these behaviors.

You can lecture these kids til you turn blue in the face, their brains need pharmaceutical help to process the lecture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My suggestion is to meet with the school counselor and work together on this. If he is impulsive, it is very hard for something you say at home to stick with him at school. And contrary to what a PP said, it actually is somewhat typical for ADHD kids to make inappropriate comments -- they don't filter the way other kids do. Often, they are 2-3 years behind their peers socially and they are looking for attention; when kids laugh, they view that as positive attention, so they continue the behaviors. You really need to work with the school, his therapist, and doctor to help with that.

Is he on medication for his ADHD? If not, it may be time to pursue that option. If he is on medication, you should consider whether it should be adjusted.

I completely understand the desire to punish the behavior, and you certainly can do so, but it likely won't make your son any better at filtering/thinking before he speaks. Essentially, you punish to make yourself feel like you are doing something and to be able to tell others that you are doing something, but punishing your son isn't going to fix this problem.

OP, above is the post you need to read. This is a high-risk time period for kids with certain special needs, and if handled poorly can result in cumulative disasters up to and including no high school diploma and juvenile justice involvement. But his disability issues also have to be considered--not meaning he gets to do whatever, but that the approach to such behavior is individualized. Social skills training that includes school/society's rules about serious issues.

OP I agree. We've been in your shoes. It is very challenging to raise such kids in today's environment of hyper-PC-ness. PP gives some good advice.

It’s never been remotely acceptable to bully a girl because she has her period. I agree that things are pretty crazy these days, but you can’t blame this situation on “today’s environment”.

Only in today's environment would one mean comment be treated as bullying.

Bullying at times has improperly been ignored, but we've now gone way overboard in terms of what is labeled bullying.

How many times does a person have to be shamed or embarrased before you think it is acceptable for the real victim to complain? Btw. The son could have been teasing this girl mulitple times without witneses. And we all know who society believes more when it is man or boys word against a woman or girls' word...hint not the woman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^ So everyone on this board claiming their sons CANNOT CONTROL their impulses - what’s your plan for when your boys get to High School? College?

Are you going to keep blaming the teachers for trying to stop them from sexually harassing girls? What if the verbal abuse no longer gets the same reaction with the older kids and he decides he needs to up his game?

And even if you manage to shield him from all accountability with your ADHD diagnosis, what are you going to do when he’s 18????

She was not trying to shield him from accountability, she didn't blame the teacher, and she literally asked for ideas of how to help.

Like another poster said, impulsivity is literally part of the definitional criteria for ADHD.

And YES -- exactly! the fear is that he will try to up the ante. These kids are walking risk factors. They are more likely to get in car accidents. They are more likely to become addicted to drugs. They are more likely to suffer from major depression and their impulsivity makes them exactly the kids most likely to attempt suicide -- and succeed.

I am so surprised to see so many posters in this forum in denial that many individuals actually have limited capacity to control their impulses. It's like yelling at fat people to stop eating so much. Gee, ya think? The problem with the will-power approach is that it's just pitting two parts of a person's brain against one another. Guess what. The brain always wins.

That's why meds and CBT are the best route: they seek to change the brain's feedback system. Nothing else works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jeez, the sanctimommies are out in force tonight!

How about you impose consequences on your children with dyslexia for reading slowly and on your kids with autism for humming and spinning? How about you stop excusing their behavior, eh?

Go back to your first graders, sanctimommies. Adolescence will catch up to you know-it-alls soon enough. Put down your pitchforks and offer something constructive or go the eff away.

This is the Special Needs Board. Most of us have had children who were bullied or teased because they were a little different than the others. I think this explains why we are view this situation severely.

Many of us have children with ADHD, who do not react this way in class. So we have difficulty believing that a child, ostensibly with a disorder that is familiar to us, can act in a way so extremely different from our children with the same disorder. Of course we know that ADHD presents differently for each patient, and we also know that it's TERRIBLE to blame a parent for the actions of their child. But... there is a doubt here. Why does this middle schooler not understand where the line is? Or if he does, is there any way to better control his impulsivity?

Who knows? He might become the next great comic of our time! OP can tell him that, to keep his spirits up, but in a school environment, he MUST keep his mouth shut. His own safety is at stake.

I'm the parent of the Jewish kid who made the Hitler joke. Do you think that went over quietly in our house? Gosh that was fun. He knew he was in for it, too. He knew it was beyond inappropriate, and he was apologetic and had detention and wrote a letter of apology.

But he was still in the principal's office a week later, for making another inappropriate joke.

The point is, for kids who are stimulation-seekers -- and probably also a certain kind of extrovert, as my son is -- it is satisfying *because* it is inappropriate. The rule-breaking is a rush. The laughter is a rush. My kid knows precisely where the line is: boredom on one side, risk and reward on the other.

This is totally new, btw. Never ever had a discipline issue in high school until... 8th grade.

This kind of impulse control is a huge, huge problem with SOME teens with ADHD -- not all of course but it's very, very well-documented. Blaming a parent who is HERE ASKING FOR HELP is just low. I guess it makes some folks feel better about themselves or something.

Ironically, it doesn't actually help the teacher or the kids targeted by the joke. But some advice about impulse control might!

And please don't talk about consequences. Everyone here has made it through toddlerhood, and we all know that consequences only help when a person has the capacity to CONTROL THEIR IMPULSES. This is pretty basic stuff.

PP you responded to.

Thank you for explaining that your child gets a kick out of the impropriety of his joke, despite knowing how the teacher (and other kids) might view the joke.

I did not mention consequences, BTW, and did point out it was an impulse problem. Can your son control himself better when his meds are tweaked? Have you tried role-playing together, or has a therapist tried this approach?

My own 14 year old made a Hitler joke when he was 8 (not Jewish), in front of dinner guests whose jaws dropped to the floor. Luckily, they're long-time friends and gave him the benefit of the doubt. DS stopped doing that before middle school, and I thought it was due to a combination of meds plus our intense pressure/explanation/training...but perhaps it's also that he finds those kinds of jokes intrinsically less self-rewarding than your son or OP's son?

Anyway. It's good to discuss these things, even if tempers flare.

We haven't actually started meds yet -- he was just dx'ed, which is why I'm on this board in the first place -- and after reading this thread I am more freaked out than ever. I really hope the meds help. Actually these few incidents were part what led us to get him tested in the first place. He's a sweet person, never made trouble in his life until he hit his teens and suddenly he's really pushing boundaries, screwing up in school, big time. I hate it, and he hates it, too -- his self-esteem is so low, it breaks my heart.

And I think it's sort of addictive, you know? Like, once you start it's hard to stop yourself? Or something.

Thanks for the respectful discussion, PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jeez, the sanctimommies are out in force tonight!

How about you impose consequences on your children with dyslexia for reading slowly and on your kids with autism for humming and spinning? How about you stop excusing their behavior, eh?

Go back to your first graders, sanctimommies. Adolescence will catch up to you know-it-alls soon enough. Put down your pitchforks and offer something constructive or go the eff away.

This is the Special Needs Board. Most of us have had children who were bullied or teased because they were a little different than the others. I think this explains why we are view this situation severely.

Many of us have children with ADHD, who do not react this way in class. So we have difficulty believing that a child, ostensibly with a disorder that is familiar to us, can act in a way so extremely different from our children with the same disorder. Of course we know that ADHD presents differently for each patient, and we also know that it's TERRIBLE to blame a parent for the actions of their child. But... there is a doubt here. Why does this middle schooler not understand where the line is? Or if he does, is there any way to better control his impulsivity?

Who knows? He might become the next great comic of our time! OP can tell him that, to keep his spirits up, but in a school environment, he MUST keep his mouth shut. His own safety is at stake.

I'm the parent of the Jewish kid who made the Hitler joke. Do you think that went over quietly in our house? Gosh that was fun. He knew he was in for it, too. He knew it was beyond inappropriate, and he was apologetic and had detention and wrote a letter of apology.

But he was still in the principal's office a week later, for making another inappropriate joke.

The point is, for kids who are stimulation-seekers -- and probably also a certain kind of extrovert, as my son is -- it is satisfying *because* it is inappropriate. The rule-breaking is a rush. The laughter is a rush. My kid knows precisely where the line is: boredom on one side, risk and reward on the other.

This is totally new, btw. Never ever had a discipline issue in high school until... 8th grade.

This kind of impulse control is a huge, huge problem with SOME teens with ADHD -- not all of course but it's very, very well-documented. Blaming a parent who is HERE ASKING FOR HELP is just low. I guess it makes some folks feel better about themselves or something.

Ironically, it doesn't actually help the teacher or the kids targeted by the joke. But some advice about impulse control might!

And please don't talk about consequences. Everyone here has made it through toddlerhood, and we all know that consequences only help when a person has the capacity to CONTROL THEIR IMPULSES. This is pretty basic stuff.

PP you responded to.

Thank you for explaining that your child gets a kick out of the impropriety of his joke, despite knowing how the teacher (and other kids) might view the joke.

I did not mention consequences, BTW, and did point out it was an impulse problem. Can your son control himself better when his meds are tweaked? Have you tried role-playing together, or has a therapist tried this approach?

My own 14 year old made a Hitler joke when he was 8 (not Jewish), in front of dinner guests whose jaws dropped to the floor. Luckily, they're long-time friends and gave him the benefit of the doubt. DS stopped doing that before middle school, and I thought it was due to a combination of meds plus our intense pressure/explanation/training...but perhaps it's also that he finds those kinds of jokes intrinsically less self-rewarding than your son or OP's son?

Anyway. It's good to discuss these things, even if tempers flare.

We haven't actually started meds yet -- he was just dx'ed, which is why I'm on this board in the first place -- and after reading this thread I am more freaked out than ever. I really hope the meds help. Actually these few incidents were part what led us to get him tested in the first place. He's a sweet person, never made trouble in his life until he hit his teens and suddenly he's really pushing boundaries, screwing up in school, big time. I hate it, and he hates it, too -- his self-esteem is so low, it breaks my heart.

And I think it's sort of addictive, you know? Like, once you start it's hard to stop yourself? Or something.

Thanks for the respectful discussion, PP.

PP you replied to. Well, that's kind of good news, or at least preferable to finding out that your son had tried every single med out there and none had worked for him! Rarely, that can happen.
Where was he diagnosed? Are you sure they didn't miss anything else? If the behavior is due to ADHD, it has a high chance of being controlled by stimulants.
So, please see a reputable psychiatrist to get started on meds, not a pediatrician. Pediatricians are just helpful with prescription renewals. We have been happy with Dr. Hemanth in Rockville. I think her website is Neuroscientific Insights or something like that.

[Anonymous]

This is an interesting thread. Does he make sexualized comments because he likes the discomfort others feel? This will lead to increasing isolation for him as the other students become more uncomfortable and scared in his presence. Maybe a fresh start in a new environment could help all while continuing therapy.I really wish I had some sound advice. My heart goes out to you.

[Anonymous]

It's a scary time for boys, alot of false accusations.

Trump is right

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My suggestion is to meet with the school counselor and work together on this. If he is impulsive, it is very hard for something you say at home to stick with him at school. And contrary to what a PP said, it actually is somewhat typical for ADHD kids to make inappropriate comments -- they don't filter the way other kids do. Often, they are 2-3 years behind their peers socially and they are looking for attention; when kids laugh, they view that as positive attention, so they continue the behaviors. You really need to work with the school, his therapist, and doctor to help with that.

Is he on medication for his ADHD? If not, it may be time to pursue that option. If he is on medication, you should consider whether it should be adjusted.

I completely understand the desire to punish the behavior, and you certainly can do so, but it likely won't make your son any better at filtering/thinking before he speaks. Essentially, you punish to make yourself feel like you are doing something and to be able to tell others that you are doing something, but punishing your son isn't going to fix this problem.

I agree with working with the therapist and doctor but wouldn't expect much help from the counselor. It's just not really part of what they do at these ages, IME, unless you are looking for some sort of accommodation to help him restrain himself.

Also, I think people are reacting so negatively because it seems like you are framing the problem in terms of what the teacher has done (claimed sexual harassment) and aren't sure you agree with the school about what's offensive, actually. You'll get more supportive feedback if you speak directly: Your son has been making offensive, inappropriate comments in class of an increasingly sexual nature (?) And it needs to stop.

Here's the thing: There is a difference between saying he has trouble controlling himself and saying he is not responsible. While I totally agree with medicating and not just punishing to make yourself feel better, it is also important to help your son connect the dots between his own actions and the natural consequences of those actions, in order to develop deeper empathy and understanding. Has he apologized to the girl he harassed? To the teacher? He can do it in writing when he has time to reflect and doesn't have an audience to impress. Empathy and understanding are not quick fixes, but are needed if he is to take responsibility and figure out the best ways to restrain himself.

That might mean taking his meds as prescribed, or noticing when he is fatigued and taking a break, or practicing whatever exercises his therapist prescribes. But HE is the one who is going to have to solve this problem. Sort of like taking meds doesn't get a kid's homework done unless they want to do it in the first place. But here the stakes are higher; and it's not only his own well-being at stake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's a scary time for boys, alot of false accusations.

Trump is right

Sure is - as the person has noted in song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N34hehRgw9g

[Anonymous]

If you think that consequences for embarrassing a middle school girl for getting her period is just a result of "PC culture" then it's not surprising that your son has a hard time "reigning it in". I would blame his ADHD a lot less and your attitude toward this kind of language and behavior a lot more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you think that consequences for embarrassing a middle school girl for getting her period is just a result of "PC culture" then it's not surprising that your son has a hard time "reigning it in". I would blame his ADHD a lot less and your attitude toward this kind of language and behavior a lot more.

It really depends on what those consequences are. Sexual harassment could lead to expulsion/transfer or police involvement. Is that sensible to you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like his behavior is targeting others to get a laugh at their expense. That isn't being a class clown. It is behavior that calls for discipline. I don't understand why you would say it is dngerous for your son.

Parents of kids with special needs know very well that schools can indeed be profoundly dangerous places for their kids just because they may have a very hard time understanding/following norms--written AND unwritten rules--even though they need to learn/develop the capacity to do so.

Sometimes people delivering punishment will say "He needs to learn . . ." Yes, exactly. And this may be a kid for whom some kinds of learning, including social learning, needs to be delivered in an individualized way.

Oh stop

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's a scary time for boys, alot of false accusations.

Trump is right

Trump could use some cbt and medication.

[Anonymous]

As long as saying a word or drawing s picture that consists of four lines will get a big big response from all you’re going to have young people who will do it just for the rush snd the attention even if it’s negative.