Elderly father destroying family harmony & his legacy in pursuit of inheritance

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much money are we talking about?

I think she said $3k for each of the 6 kids.

And the best way that OP could think to spend it is to go on a cruise, even though apparently she also has kids. So I guess OP is loaded. Seems to not have occurred to her to wonder how she got to be in that position, or who may have helped her get there.

[Anonymous]

I'm on Team Dad, too. I feel sorry for dad having to go through this alone, when he really should have the support of his children. His children should have a clear conscience under the circumstances, and it's the cousins who should be worrying whether they can be forgiven for what the uncle has done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If your dad was never compensated for the loan, then of course he should be awarded the investment returns. Why wouldn't he? Just because he tried to convince himself and everyone else in the family that he could look past it back then when he was being screwed over the first time?

I can see why he's furious. I would be too.

I've bought stocks before that have tanked and I wrote them off in my own mind. If they rebound in the future, should I not sell the stocks because many years ago I tried to move on with my life as if I didn't have the money?

And you say that your cousins would be furious if you took the money.. what?? Why? Because they think it's theirs? If I had cousins like that, I would be writing them off anyway and wouldn't care at all what they think.

Your father is being screwed over twice, and you're okay with it. I can't understand that. He sounds like the only reasonable one in your family.

I was thinking the same thing.

This made me think of how my father got screwed by his brother. I wish I were you here. I would stand my my dad.

[Anonymous]

OP, have you always hated your dad or is this a relatively new development? Glad you aren't my kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm genuinely curious as to whether you hold your uncle and cousins at all responsible for any family rift? Aren't they now valuing money above family? If it's such a small amount, and family is so important, why don't they just give your father his fair share in order to maintain family harmony?

Are you able to see the hypocrisy at all?

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does "wrote I think off' so to speak" mean? Not obvious your dad doesn't have a claim.

I'd just keep my head down and be nice to everyone.

When my grandmother died, my father and brother had a small quarrel over the loan. It looked like a bad investment and my father wanted my uncle to deduct the entire value from my uncle’s half. My uncle was not willing to do that. Eventually, my father made a big deal of saying the loan amount didn’t matter. I know he has brought this up at least a few times as if rubbing in to my uncle that he was the bigger man and could spare the money. Only now that the payoff is coming, he has reopened it.

Your uncle invested with half his and half your father's money, against your father's wishes. Your father is entitled to the returns, and the fact that your cousins will be upset with you if your father gets what he's legally entitled to is nuts. Your uncle should be able to steal from your father's share of the inheritance to make investments your father wants no part of, and then keep all the proceeds for himself? How does that make sense? How is your whole family on the side of the guy who stole from his brother? Just because this gamble paid off?

No. My uncle invested my grandmother’s money before she died. It was meant to be a short term injection of capital that would be paid back. My father did not know about the loan until after my grandmother died.

OP, do you realize this makes your uncle much worse? He took money from a dying old woman in secret. Your uncle sounds like a real manipulative jerk and your cousins seem to the same thing. I'm sure your dad isn't perfect but in this case he is absolutely in the right.

[Anonymous]

OP, I get the holidays have always included your cousins and the extended family. If there's a family rift then you will have lonely holidays from here on. Is this what's at the bottom of your reluctance to back your dad? It sucks. You didn't ask for this but your world is being rocked anyway.

Nobody is perfect and your dad is groping around trying to find the words that fit his brother's behavior and how he feels about it. He didn't come up with the perfect reasoning, but give him a break already. His brother is a cheat and a scoundrel. What kind of son takes advantage of his elderly mother who isn't thinking clearly, and then tries to hoodwink his brother about the investment? If your uncle had been smart (or clairvoyant), he would have allowed half the $amount to be deducted from his share of the inheritance when the investment was on the down, and then he could have pocketed the profits later. But he didn't allow the amount to be deducted, so now he needs to suck it up and hand over half of the original investment amount, and half of the profits.

You need to man up and see the situation for what it is. DCUM tells it like it is and everyone is telling you in 20 different ways you dad is in the right and your uncle is not. Yeah, it's gonna rock your world in a sad way, but it is what it is, and you will survive. Your grandma was the glue that kept everyone together. Now that she's gone, your uncle's behavior has busted the family wide apart. Not your dad. Your uncle is gonna have to bend over backwards at this point in the situation in order to bring back the peace. He is gonna have to grovel, and apologize profusely, and hand over the money. He is going to have to admit he was wrong, and plainly state he's trying to make amends. Anything short of that is not going to appease your dad, who at this point is done with his jerk brother. It's up to your uncle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My father is 78 and his brother is 79, almost 80.

It is impossible to stay out of it because my father tells everyone that the money is for his children. He writes pages long emails to the entire family about how he hopes we will use the money.

For context, each of my siblings would receive about $3,000 before taxes. It isn’t a fortune. Maybe we could go on a nice cruise? However, we would lose out on our uncle and cousins at holidays, weddings, and other special events like religious milestones. Everyone would know the reason for the rift. I feel ashamed even thinking about it. I was not raised to think money was more important than family.

Your entire family would shun you and your siblings if your uncle has to pay the money he legally owes your dad?

Your. Father. Is. Not. The. Problem. Here!!!

NP here and it's not entirely clear to me that the uncle legally owes the money to the dad. OP's father should have made his claim at the time the estate was distributed but now the estate has been settled (although it is unclear how many years have passed since the estate was settled so it may still be within the statute of limitations to file a claim for the funds) OP's dad may not have a further right to dispute the distribution of the estate. I think would be worth your dad's time to spend $200 on a consult with an attorney that has a background in trusts and estates law.

I completely agree with all of the other posters though that morally your dad is in the right and morally your uncle should pay your dad 50% of the gain on the investment. I also agree that it is insane that the cousins are threatening to estrange themselves from OP and others in the family when their father (?) effectively stole money from the estate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does "wrote I think off' so to speak" mean? Not obvious your dad doesn't have a claim.

I'd just keep my head down and be nice to everyone.

When my grandmother died, my father and brother had a small quarrel over the loan. It looked like a bad investment and my father wanted my uncle to deduct the entire value from my uncle’s half. My uncle was not willing to do that. Eventually, my father made a big deal of saying the loan amount didn’t matter. I know he has brought this up at least a few times as if rubbing in to my uncle that he was the bigger man and could spare the money. Only now that the payoff is coming, he has reopened it.

Your uncle invested with half his and half your father's money, against your father's wishes. Your father is entitled to the returns, and the fact that your cousins will be upset with you if your father gets what he's legally entitled to is nuts. Your uncle should be able to steal from your father's share of the inheritance to make investments your father wants no part of, and then keep all the proceeds for himself? How does that make sense? How is your whole family on the side of the guy who stole from his brother? Just because this gamble paid off?

No. My uncle invested my grandmother’s money before she died. It was meant to be a short term injection of capital that would be paid back. My father did not know about the loan until after my grandmother died.

Your uncle sounds like a fraudster. wonder what else he did with Grandma's money that you all never found out about.

And you're harping about your father "breaking up the harmony". The harmony of what? Your selfish, corrupt uncle and cousins?

Grow up OP, you're suffering from Stockholm Syndrome or more likely being manipulated by your BS uncle side of the family. Have they successfully turned you against your father yet? Their plan is working!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would rather have my cousins and my uncle than the money. My siblings feel the same. The money is not a life changing amount when divided between six of us. I told my father that I don’t need it or want it under these circumstances. If my father secretly needs it for himself, he should let us know. It’s wrong for him to pretend that he is fighting for us.

Quantify the amount then. How much of the pie was the Fraudster Loan? 10%, 50%, 80%?? Do you even know? Can you even trust them? Just because they are your uncles or cousins doesn't mean the won't con you or grandma over and over again. This is a story as old as time. One brother stealing stuff from the house, taking money, having senile grandparent sign away rights. Some people are bad people.

100 Grandma
-50 Fraudster Loan
= 50 Left at death
25 to Dad
25 to Uncle

Years later the 50 Fraudster Loan is worth 75 with interest and appreciation.

Final tally:
25 to Dad
100 to Uncle

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does "wrote I think off' so to speak" mean? Not obvious your dad doesn't have a claim.

I'd just keep my head down and be nice to everyone.

When my grandmother died, my father and brother had a small quarrel over the loan. It looked like a bad investment and my father wanted my uncle to deduct the entire value from my uncle’s half. My uncle was not willing to do that. Eventually, my father made a big deal of saying the loan amount didn’t matter. I know he has brought this up at least a few times as if rubbing in to my uncle that he was the bigger man and could spare the money. Only now that the payoff is coming, he has reopened it.

So, was the loan amount deducted from just your uncle's half, or from both their inheritances equally?

They split the remaining estate equally so my assumption is that the bad loan was split equally. My father was more than satisfied until now as he was able to brag that he walked away from that amount in order to preserve family harmony. Now, he is destroying the harmony.

Your father is not destroying anything. Your greedy uncle and cousins and delusional self are 100% responsible for that.

Money is not more important than family to me. That is what my father argued years ago when he said to forget about the loan. He is a hypocrite, but I’m not.

You prioritize your swindling cousins and uncle as important. No one forgets about an adult brother swindling grandma's money. No one.

Wow.

I hope you're not married or have any real things going on in your life. You sound naive and stupid as all get up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the loan was part of the estate "assets" (or whatever they're called), then I'm with team dad. If grandmom had understanding with your uncle that he pay her back (as you say a loan), also with team dad.

If the money was a gift from grandma to uncle, then team uncle wins.

There is no way to know as it was not mentioned in her will. My uncle often disbursed small amounts under $5k to people that my grandmother wanted to help. She was known to do this. Some were gifts and some loans. My father questioned several disbursements. All the others were gifts. This was a bad loan and not a formal investment. My grandmother would be distraught to see this fighting between her sons. She did not pursue repayment before she died and would probably have just gifted it to the recipient who was struggling with a failing business and young family at that time.

yeah, he probably "disbursed" grandma's money to all his fellow con artists and family members. What a joke. None of you deserve your grandparents' hard-earned money.

I predict in 10 years you'll all be bankrupt now that that only people in your family with brains or work ethic (grandparents, OP's father) are dead or bullied into submission.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My father is 78 and his brother is 79, almost 80.

It is impossible to stay out of it because my father tells everyone that the money is for his children. He writes pages long emails to the entire family about how he hopes we will use the money.

For context, each of my siblings would receive about $3,000 before taxes. It isn’t a fortune. Maybe we could go on a nice cruise? However, we would lose out on our uncle and cousins at holidays, weddings, and other special events like religious milestones. Everyone would know the reason for the rift. I feel ashamed even thinking about it. I was not raised to think money was more important than family.

So it makes you happier to kiss @$$ to your money-stealing uncle (steal from grandma, and now steal from your dad) on holidays, weddings and religious milestones than to have your money-stealing uncle do the right thing and divide up grandma's final assets correctly instead of keeping them for themselves.

What culture or country or religion are your from?

This reminds me of my Turkish cousin in Ankara. Fat, divorced uncle #2 lived with grandma in order to get free maid service and meals from her nurse. He also bought my cousin a Mercedes with grandma's money! He spent her money on whatever he personally wanted like no tomorrow. Then she died.
Everyone looked at the finances and saw all these holes, from uncle #2 siphoning off money to himself. They all argued - passionately, they are Turkish! - for a couple months. Cousins were told to write emails to uncle #2 about needing the money for vacation, for weddings, for kids. Uncle #2 eventually agreed to subtract some of the siphoned off monies from his third. Cousin still kept the $60k Mercedes, a vehicle 4x the price of mine here in America.

Flash fw one year - everyone was happily summering together, mooching off each others seaside houses like usual.

Flash Fw 3 years - Uncle #2 very unhealthy as he has no grandma nurse to do everything for him. He forced himself to move in to his adult son's house after that son, my cousin, just got married. Looks like hell on earth. Everyone went to the wedding, everyone got past the uncle #2 antics in less than a year, plus he did the right thing and appropriated the money back.

Families get nuts at funerals and true colors and games really show. OP, your father is right, and your uncle is trying to drive him crazy by not responding or doing the right thing. Uncle needs to give the money back to the rightful owners. Yes, your father should cool it with the long emails, but your uncle is purposefully not being responsive or available. It's all a big game of chicken. I hope your father can get a pro bono lawyer or previous atty to open the estate will process back up. That said, your uncle's behaviors are 100x worse than your father being backed into a corner now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everyone knows that my father forgave the debt. He mentioned it repeatedly at gatherings to shame my uncle. My uncle had offered to give my father half of the original loan amount. It was what he wanted when my grandmother died. My father now says he will only be satisfied with half the investment. He was unwilling to accept any of the risk, but now wants half the reward. He tells people it is all for his children though none of us want it. My cousins think we are two-faced.

you are really brainwashed here by your uncle OP. Tell your uncle to do the right thing already. He already did countless wrong things. Here he was caught twice - using grandma's money for loaning his friend money, and now when finally repaid not following the will. Who cares what your father said, he was likely furious to discover all the funny business your uncle did with his parents' money. Maybe he forgave the behaviour, but money is money. Divide it up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would rather have my cousins and my uncle than the money. My siblings feel the same. The money is not a life changing amount when divided between six of us. I told my father that I don’t need it or want it under these circumstances. If my father secretly needs it for himself, he should let us know. It’s wrong for him to pretend that he is fighting for us.

This was the position I took with my sister on a similar issue. It didn't work. She still feels entitled and I still feel shorted and our children, who know about the discrepancy, also resent it. It's better to work it out fairly if possible, even if you don't really need the money.

Agree. Good points.