No grandchildren

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I realize already that it is better that my kids not have children if they don't want them. Raising children is extremely difficult and if your heart isn't in it 100%, you shouldn't do it. I think that they are aware that I would like to have grandchildren but I have never pressured them to have kids. That being said, I am still sad that grandchildren don't seem to be in the cards. And yes, I can volunteer and have children in my life in other ways but it is still not the same. I see my mother with her 12 great grandchildren at out annual family reunion and she is so happy.

But why are you sad? There is no loss to you. You need to have something else to occupy your time.

It absolutely is a loss.

You can't lose what you never had.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I struggle to see how raising children is meaningful to anyone in this day and age. It's very stressful to actually exist and have to suffer through life.

It is your definition of life and expectations that might be the issue.

Please, haven't you read all the depression and anxiety threads in DCUM? You're probably on Zoloft anyway.

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry OP. I wasn't able to have a child and thought I was over the grief ... until my friends children started having grandchildren. And seemed to have so much joy in their lives that I will never experience.

Your children are not super old and there may still be done potential for having a grandchild. Just wanted to let you know you are not the only one.

I'm also trying to find a place to volunteer to help kids, which I avoided when younger because I just found it too painful then. Hope you can find a child out there who may need a surrogate grandparent one day.

[Anonymous]

And, there is definitely a loss...of something / someone that naturally comes to others.

You expect to have a child or a grandchild as easily as your friends or relatives, and there is a real sense of loss when there is no child to look forward to loving. Not having a grandchild can be due to choice, or due to infertility, or just life circumstances. I have found out the hard way it takes awhile to grieve for what will not happen and move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have multiple friends and a sister who are in your position. Their adult children have rejected the idea of becoming parents and seem to be perpetual children themselves, constantly moving, changing jobs and asking for financial help from their parents. I think this partially comes from the disrespect for the roles of traditional mothers, who are constantly dissed on this site and others. Being a SAHM puts women on the defensive yet working moms are often stretched beyond their limits.

Please stop perpetuating the idea that people who don’t have children are children themselves. You don’t even know if that’s the life they chose or what’s going on. Adults of childbearing age today had a lot of economic obstacles their parents never had to deal with, so you don’t know why they keep moving for jobs or asking for help. It seems like a wise and very adult, if difficult, decision to not bring children into that situation. I know that can be difficult for some of you boomers to understand, but maybe not everyone is making unlimited choices with supportive circumstances. If you wanted your children to have children, maybe you should have done more to make sure we had a world conducive to that. Or were you busy raising your kids? Maybe childless people aren’t useless.

NP here. What would be more difficult for this generation than for boomers? Absolutely cannot figure that one out.

We were the first women who were fully expected to enter the job force in the 70s and 80s, whether we wanted to or not, with zero maternity leave much less pay, substandard childcare, and misogynist bosses...yep..even some female bosses. We had that glass ceiling. We are still punching thtough that, and niw we are dealung with ageism.

We were expected to have it all and do it all. Little help with anything...we did the housework and the meals. We were told our birthing labor would be "uncomfortable" but that we could breathe through it. We raised you little buggers making sure you had everything, told you that you could be anything. There were no cruises, trips to Europe, and a lot of luxuries that millennials think are standard today. Our first home was a rented apt. We lived through 3 recessions...I waited in a line to fill my car for 4 hours in 1979, and had to leave my car there as there was no gas...for a week. No computers, no internet..we researched our dissertations in the library with whatever available microfiche documents or journals there were and typed those damn things on a typewriter with the citations placed at the bottom while feeding you. We went to your games, your plays, your parties.
We were called "honey" work and worried about our jobs if we took off.
We were BADASS. You got nothing on us...nothing.

Don't you dare tell us what kind of world we left for you....you have it so much better. Your worst enemies are your peers...competition, judging, one upmanship. It is tough to watch. We helped each other...babysitting clubs, play groups, etc. These women are still my friends.
And yes, I would still have kids.Best thing ever- and not afraid to admit that it was ok to be a Mom as if it would say something about my intellect.

If you don't want kids, fine, but place your blame elsewhere....and, yes, you are missing out.

NP but wow you sound nuts and jumped to some crazy conclusions. Also, do you think you solved the problems of sexism and no one is called honey anymore? Are you living under a rock? None of that stopped, even if it’s not directed at you anymore.

Not under a rock...still very much in the game. There are far more protections now than ever. There is maternity leave and paternity leave, there is even maternity pay in some places. There are domestic partnership laws, and there are laws against discrimination and harrassment. You can also be gay in the workplace- that was surely not happening. You can be a gay parent, too...THAT wasn't happening.There are pumping rooms for breastfeeders, there is FEMLA,flexible work schedules, telework, and there are better and daycare and options. The idea of parenting is not relegated only to women...men get it now because they were raised by us. Interest rates for a house are below 5%. I paid 16%. Yes, you read that right. You can afford a house, but if you are striving for the huge 4 to 5000 square ft residence, you just won't be able to do it. If you want to live in the city where you will be perceived better some how...you probably won't be able to do it...(or park anywhere, for that matter).

Stop whining about your sad life- you don't know how good you have it. No, some things are not all over, but the entire cultural landscape has really evolved and your age group benefits from what we pushed for. Why not continue the progress instead of dropping out of parenthood for all those ridiculous reasons that you listed. Unless you just don't want kids, which might be the case, your generational blame for that is lacking. Also, as you have zero frame of reference for this, don't call people nuts for what you might not understand. THAT is nuts. Develop empathy. Focus out, not in. Grow up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have multiple friends and a sister who are in your position. Their adult children have rejected the idea of becoming parents and seem to be perpetual children themselves, constantly moving, changing jobs and asking for financial help from their parents. I think this partially comes from the disrespect for the roles of traditional mothers, who are constantly dissed on this site and others. Being a SAHM puts women on the defensive yet working moms are often stretched beyond their limits.

Please stop perpetuating the idea that people who don’t have children are children themselves. You don’t even know if that’s the life they chose or what’s going on. Adults of childbearing age today had a lot of economic obstacles their parents never had to deal with, so you don’t know why they keep moving for jobs or asking for help. It seems like a wise and very adult, if difficult, decision to not bring children into that situation. I know that can be difficult for some of you boomers to understand, but maybe not everyone is making unlimited choices with supportive circumstances. If you wanted your children to have children, maybe you should have done more to make sure we had a world conducive to that. Or were you busy raising your kids? Maybe childless people aren’t useless.

NP here. What would be more difficult for this generation than for boomers? Absolutely cannot figure that one out.

We were the first women who were fully expected to enter the job force in the 70s and 80s, whether we wanted to or not, with zero maternity leave much less pay, substandard childcare, and misogynist bosses...yep..even some female bosses. We had that glass ceiling. We are still punching thtough that, and niw we are dealung with ageism.

We were expected to have it all and do it all. Little help with anything...we did the housework and the meals. We were told our birthing labor would be "uncomfortable" but that we could breathe through it. We raised you little buggers making sure you had everything, told you that you could be anything. There were no cruises, trips to Europe, and a lot of luxuries that millennials think are standard today. Our first home was a rented apt. We lived through 3 recessions...I waited in a line to fill my car for 4 hours in 1979, and had to leave my car there as there was no gas...for a week. No computers, no internet..we researched our dissertations in the library with whatever available microfiche documents or journals there were and typed those damn things on a typewriter with the citations placed at the bottom while feeding you. We went to your games, your plays, your parties.
We were called "honey" work and worried about our jobs if we took off.
We were BADASS. You got nothing on us...nothing.

Don't you dare tell us what kind of world we left for you....you have it so much better. Your worst enemies are your peers...competition, judging, one upmanship. It is tough to watch. We helped each other...babysitting clubs, play groups, etc. These women are still my friends.
And yes, I would still have kids.Best thing ever- and not afraid to admit that it was ok to be a Mom as if it would say something about my intellect.

If you don't want kids, fine, but place your blame elsewhere....and, yes, you are missing out.

Who said I a) didn’t have kids or b) am younger than you? Why would I be on this board if I was under 50? But if you want to
Make this an age thing, let’s go: Clearly age has started to cloud your thinking. Your anecdotes are cool stories but don’t hold any water when you look at the facts of economic circumstances boomers had versus what millennials had. Look at hard data about what education and housing cost relative to wages, job growth and social mobility, etc. if you’re still about to think you’ll quickly realize you’re argument is ridiculous. Your feelings and stereotypes don’t create reality.

Why would you be on this board? Oh, you saw it in Recent topics and the question resonated with you and your choices in life, most likely. Come on. And why not be on this board? Why are we all here anyway?

And no, your economic burdens are not different or harder! What about the generation before mine- that was economically tragic. You check out Pew data, and you will be in for a surprise. You are way off.You are the beneficiary of much more job growth for women, educational opportunities, and many more options than ever. Saddled with 100k in school debt? Let's talk about how you got there.

Some choose to make it difficult. It boils down to what you need vs. what you think you need. Period. What has changed are the expectations.

[Anonymous]

Just because the OP found raising children fulfilling doesnt mean that her kids feel the same way. It's called YMMV.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I realize already that it is better that my kids not have children if they don't want them. Raising children is extremely difficult and if your heart isn't in it 100%, you shouldn't do it. I think that they are aware that I would like to have grandchildren but I have never pressured them to have kids. That being said, I am still sad that grandchildren don't seem to be in the cards. And yes, I can volunteer and have children in my life in other ways but it is still not the same. I see my mother with her 12 great grandchildren at out annual family reunion and she is so happy.

But why are you sad? There is no loss to you. You need to have something else to occupy your time.

It absolutely is a loss.

You can't lose what you never had.

Especially when you were never owed or entitled to it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have multiple friends and a sister who are in your position. Their adult children have rejected the idea of becoming parents and seem to be perpetual children themselves, constantly moving, changing jobs and asking for financial help from their parents. I think this partially comes from the disrespect for the roles of traditional mothers, who are constantly dissed on this site and others. Being a SAHM puts women on the defensive yet working moms are often stretched beyond their limits.

Please stop perpetuating the idea that people who don’t have children are children themselves. You don’t even know if that’s the life they chose or what’s going on. Adults of childbearing age today had a lot of economic obstacles their parents never had to deal with, so you don’t know why they keep moving for jobs or asking for help. It seems like a wise and very adult, if difficult, decision to not bring children into that situation. I know that can be difficult for some of you boomers to understand, but maybe not everyone is making unlimited choices with supportive circumstances. If you wanted your children to have children, maybe you should have done more to make sure we had a world conducive to that. Or were you busy raising your kids? Maybe childless people aren’t useless.

NP here. What would be more difficult for this generation than for boomers? Absolutely cannot figure that one out.

We were the first women who were fully expected to enter the job force in the 70s and 80s, whether we wanted to or not, with zero maternity leave much less pay, substandard childcare, and misogynist bosses...yep..even some female bosses. We had that glass ceiling. We are still punching thtough that, and niw we are dealung with ageism.

We were expected to have it all and do it all. Little help with anything...we did the housework and the meals. We were told our birthing labor would be "uncomfortable" but that we could breathe through it. We raised you little buggers making sure you had everything, told you that you could be anything. There were no cruises, trips to Europe, and a lot of luxuries that millennials think are standard today. Our first home was a rented apt. We lived through 3 recessions...I waited in a line to fill my car for 4 hours in 1979, and had to leave my car there as there was no gas...for a week. No computers, no internet..we researched our dissertations in the library with whatever available microfiche documents or journals there were and typed those damn things on a typewriter with the citations placed at the bottom while feeding you. We went to your games, your plays, your parties.
We were called "honey" work and worried about our jobs if we took off.
We were BADASS. You got nothing on us...nothing.

Don't you dare tell us what kind of world we left for you....you have it so much better. Your worst enemies are your peers...competition, judging, one upmanship. It is tough to watch. We helped each other...babysitting clubs, play groups, etc. These women are still my friends.
And yes, I would still have kids.Best thing ever- and not afraid to admit that it was ok to be a Mom as if it would say something about my intellect.

If you don't want kids, fine, but place your blame elsewhere....and, yes, you are missing out.

NP but wow you sound nuts and jumped to some crazy conclusions. Also, do you think you solved the problems of sexism and no one is called honey anymore? Are you living under a rock? None of that stopped, even if it’s not directed at you anymore.

Not under a rock...still very much in the game. There are far more protections now than ever. There is maternity leave and paternity leave, there is even maternity pay in some places. There are domestic partnership laws, and there are laws against discrimination and harrassment. You can also be gay in the workplace- that was surely not happening. You can be a gay parent, too...THAT wasn't happening.There are pumping rooms for breastfeeders, there is FEMLA,flexible work schedules, telework, and there are better and daycare and options. The idea of parenting is not relegated only to women...men get it now because they were raised by us. Interest rates for a house are below 5%. I paid 16%. Yes, you read that right. You can afford a house, but if you are striving for the huge 4 to 5000 square ft residence, you just won't be able to do it. If you want to live in the city where you will be perceived better some how...you probably won't be able to do it...(or park anywhere, for that matter).

Stop whining about your sad life- you don't know how good you have it. No, some things are not all over, but the entire cultural landscape has really evolved and your age group benefits from what we pushed for. Why not continue the progress instead of dropping out of parenthood for all those ridiculous reasons that you listed. Unless you just don't want kids, which might be the case, your generational blame for that is lacking. Also, as you have zero frame of reference for this, don't call people nuts for what you might not understand. THAT is nuts. Develop empathy. Focus out, not in. Grow up.

Why do you continue to jump to crazy conclusions about who you’re speaking to and what you’re talking about? You’ve got some pent up anger issues.

[Anonymous]

Does it honestly matter? Because even if your children have children, their children may not have children so "genetic legacy" might just die out anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have multiple friends and a sister who are in your position. Their adult children have rejected the idea of becoming parents and seem to be perpetual children themselves, constantly moving, changing jobs and asking for financial help from their parents. I think this partially comes from the disrespect for the roles of traditional mothers, who are constantly dissed on this site and others. Being a SAHM puts women on the defensive yet working moms are often stretched beyond their limits.

Please stop perpetuating the idea that people who don’t have children are children themselves. You don’t even know if that’s the life they chose or what’s going on. Adults of childbearing age today had a lot of economic obstacles their parents never had to deal with, so you don’t know why they keep moving for jobs or asking for help. It seems like a wise and very adult, if difficult, decision to not bring children into that situation. I know that can be difficult for some of you boomers to understand, but maybe not everyone is making unlimited choices with supportive circumstances. If you wanted your children to have children, maybe you should have done more to make sure we had a world conducive to that. Or were you busy raising your kids? Maybe childless people aren’t useless.

NP here. What would be more difficult for this generation than for boomers? Absolutely cannot figure that one out.

We were the first women who were fully expected to enter the job force in the 70s and 80s, whether we wanted to or not, with zero maternity leave much less pay, substandard childcare, and misogynist bosses...yep..even some female bosses. We had that glass ceiling. We are still punching thtough that, and niw we are dealung with ageism.

We were expected to have it all and do it all. Little help with anything...we did the housework and the meals. We were told our birthing labor would be "uncomfortable" but that we could breathe through it. We raised you little buggers making sure you had everything, told you that you could be anything. There were no cruises, trips to Europe, and a lot of luxuries that millennials think are standard today. Our first home was a rented apt. We lived through 3 recessions...I waited in a line to fill my car for 4 hours in 1979, and had to leave my car there as there was no gas...for a week. No computers, no internet..we researched our dissertations in the library with whatever available microfiche documents or journals there were and typed those damn things on a typewriter with the citations placed at the bottom while feeding you. We went to your games, your plays, your parties.
We were called "honey" work and worried about our jobs if we took off.
We were BADASS. You got nothing on us...nothing.

Don't you dare tell us what kind of world we left for you....you have it so much better. Your worst enemies are your peers...competition, judging, one upmanship. It is tough to watch. We helped each other...babysitting clubs, play groups, etc. These women are still my friends.
And yes, I would still have kids.Best thing ever- and not afraid to admit that it was ok to be a Mom as if it would say something about my intellect.

If you don't want kids, fine, but place your blame elsewhere....and, yes, you are missing out.

NP but wow you sound nuts and jumped to some crazy conclusions. Also, do you think you solved the problems of sexism and no one is called honey anymore? Are you living under a rock? None of that stopped, even if it’s not directed at you anymore.

Not under a rock...still very much in the game. There are far more protections now than ever. There is maternity leave and paternity leave, there is even maternity pay in some places. There are domestic partnership laws, and there are laws against discrimination and harrassment. You can also be gay in the workplace- that was surely not happening. You can be a gay parent, too...THAT wasn't happening.There are pumping rooms for breastfeeders, there is FEMLA,flexible work schedules, telework, and there are better and daycare and options. The idea of parenting is not relegated only to women...men get it now because they were raised by us. Interest rates for a house are below 5%. I paid 16%. Yes, you read that right. You can afford a house, but if you are striving for the huge 4 to 5000 square ft residence, you just won't be able to do it. If you want to live in the city where you will be perceived better some how...you probably won't be able to do it...(or park anywhere, for that matter).

Stop whining about your sad life- you don't know how good you have it. No, some things are not all over, but the entire cultural landscape has really evolved and your age group benefits from what we pushed for. Why not continue the progress instead of dropping out of parenthood for all those ridiculous reasons that you listed. Unless you just don't want kids, which might be the case, your generational blame for that is lacking. Also, as you have zero frame of reference for this, don't call people nuts for what you might not understand. THAT is nuts. Develop empathy. Focus out, not in. Grow up.

Why do you continue to jump to crazy conclusions about who you’re speaking to and what you’re talking about? You’ve got some pent up anger issues.

Here is the statement...and you think the responder has anger issues?

If you wanted your children to have children, maybe you should have done more to make sure we had a world conducive to that. Or were you busy raising your kids?

Sounds like angry to me. And the continual character deriding is also an anger issue.

[Anonymous]

I’m not going to have any grandchildren and that’s ok. (My adult child has intellectual disability And autism). I have found a lot of joy with my great-nieces. Buying surprises and clothes for little girls is fun!

[Anonymous]

I guess it is just a matter of reorganizing what is ahead. For me, it is a little scary, because it means the large family I thought I would be surrounded with will be missing. Holidays now are kind of flat..so rebooting is in order.

[Anonymous]

NP here-I'll start off by saying that I understand why the OP has a sense of loss/disappointment. I am a few years shy of 50 and none of my friends are near the grandparent phase of life yet but I hear a lot of talk from women I work with about how wonderful having grandchildren is, how it's the best gift their child could ever give them, etc. I'm sure (amongst other things) that listening to that sort of talk and feeling as though it's not something you'll ever have would be really tough. I think it's great, though, that the OP isn't pressuring her children and understands that it's their choice to make.

Just thought I'd share my experience/perspective FWIW. I am childless by circumstance. My sister has kids and I feel to some degree like a failure for not being able to produce grandchildren for my mother. It's been tough. It's like not only did I fail to be like most women and have a child but I also personally let down my mother. But then I think about things and I get mad. Would I feel this way as a man? Probably not. I hate that society and unfortunately many women (hardly ever men, in my experience) place such a huge, huge importance on being a mother or grandmother. I know that they are phenomenal, life changing and for most people very rewarding experiences but it's not the only thing in life. I am happy in spite of not being able to have kids. I really resent it when I hear about how people who don't have kids are "missing out" in life. Yeah, I'm missing out on that experience but please don't imply that my life is somehow inferior and that I'm to be pitied. Also, I'm a full blown adult with adult responsibilities-I haven't received any financial support from my parents since I was a college kid. The implication that people without children are irresponsible and aren't really grown up or adult is definitely not the case in most situations.

[Anonymous]

They most likely will have kids. You must likely will not be a young grandmother. I got married at 36 and have three kids. I am friends with a lifelong committed bachelor I lost with and my sister mentioned he got married five years ago at 50 and now has three kids at 55. 4 year old, two year old and an infant.

My uncle and aunt in their late 70s just had first grandkid. Only child married a women who did not want kids and neither did he. They divorced in their late 40s and got a girl pregant on a one night stand.