My Mother is pushing us to go to church

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
We joined a church when our son was in fourth grade because we wanted him to be grounded in the history of the Christian religion,which is a cornerstone of Western civilization, as well as find a community of good people who have their hearts in the right place, and have a place where we can work for the greater good.

We found all of that in our current church. I sporadically went to church growing up, and I can't believe how much I am learning. Even all the phrases that are commonplace in our language that come straight out of the Bible. My son loves all the fun stuff the church groups are doing, and he is learning all the stories of the Bible. Again, so much of our culture is based on these stories. Even from a purely academic sense, it's smart to know them.

It's possible to learn the history of the CHristian religion in a purely academic sense without being taught to believe that it's true.

Not really. Because it is Truth, and it is the foundation of all of Western humanity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, absolutely let the kids figure it out. Since they don't appear interested and it's not something you and your husband strongly believe in yourselves, I wouldn't force them to attend church. You're the parent, she can provide her opinion but she doesn't get input on your parenting.

"Thanks mom, but attending church isn't something we plan on doing right now. We will let the kids decide if they want to learn about religion when they're older." Repeat ad nauseum.

This.

But I'd only say the "Thanks" part once. After that, I'd replace with "As we've already told you...".

It annoys me so much how some religious people think you can't have morals or ethics without their religion. It would be annoying in itself even if the church wasn't full of immoral people and sex abuse scandals.

Someone not respecting the way we choose to raise our children is enough reason for me to limit/cut contact with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My in laws continuously encourage my kids to be more religious. I only step in if I don’t like the persuasion techniques (guilt, fear mongering) just as I would regardless of the topic. I have warned my MIL that she will ruin her relationship with them if she pushes too hard but that is her choice to make. I offer them full access to the kids and full control over their time together. Either the kids will decide to follow their grandparents religion or they’ll stay atheist little heathens (or find a different path I guess). All options are OK with me. Looks like they are going to continue to be little heathens and push back against spending time with the grandparents. The diminishing of that relationship makes me sad but maybe it’s inevitable as the kids age regardless of whether or not they pushed religious dogma.

If you really don't care if your kids decide to follow their grandparents religion, why don't you encourage kids and gps to follow that religion. It sure would ease family relationships.

Somehow, I think you DO care and are betting on your kids not taking religions seriously.

Why would I? I don’t believe in religion and so that is what I share with my kids. I have no problem with someone they love sharing a different perspective. I don’t get why you think I should encourage them to do follow a religion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My in laws continuously encourage my kids to be more religious. I only step in if I don’t like the persuasion techniques (guilt, fear mongering) just as I would regardless of the topic. I have warned my MIL that she will ruin her relationship with them if she pushes too hard but that is her choice to make. I offer them full access to the kids and full control over their time together. Either the kids will decide to follow their grandparents religion or they’ll stay atheist little heathens (or find a different path I guess). All options are OK with me. Looks like they are going to continue to be little heathens and push back against spending time with the grandparents. The diminishing of that relationship makes me sad but maybe it’s inevitable as the kids age regardless of whether or not they pushed religious dogma.

If you really don't care if your kids decide to follow their grandparents religion, why don't you encourage kids and gps to follow that religion. It sure would ease family relationships.

Somehow, I think you DO care and are betting on your kids not taking religions seriously.

Why would I? I don’t believe in religion and so that is what I share with my kids. I have no problem with someone they love sharing a different perspective. I don’t get why you think I should encourage them to do follow a religion?

As stated above, because it would ease family relationships.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My in laws continuously encourage my kids to be more religious. I only step in if I don’t like the persuasion techniques (guilt, fear mongering) just as I would regardless of the topic. I have warned my MIL that she will ruin her relationship with them if she pushes too hard but that is her choice to make. I offer them full access to the kids and full control over their time together. Either the kids will decide to follow their grandparents religion or they’ll stay atheist little heathens (or find a different path I guess). All options are OK with me. Looks like they are going to continue to be little heathens and push back against spending time with the grandparents. The diminishing of that relationship makes me sad but maybe it’s inevitable as the kids age regardless of whether or not they pushed religious dogma.

If you really don't care if your kids decide to follow their grandparents religion, why don't you encourage kids and gps to follow that religion. It sure would ease family relationships.

Somehow, I think you DO care and are betting on your kids not taking religions seriously.

Why would I? I don’t believe in religion and so that is what I share with my kids. I have no problem with someone they love sharing a different perspective. I don’t get why you think I should encourage them to do follow a religion?

As stated above, because it would ease family relationships.

The grandparents can also make things easier by respecting the parents' preferences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My in laws continuously encourage my kids to be more religious. I only step in if I don’t like the persuasion techniques (guilt, fear mongering) just as I would regardless of the topic. I have warned my MIL that she will ruin her relationship with them if she pushes too hard but that is her choice to make. I offer them full access to the kids and full control over their time together. Either the kids will decide to follow their grandparents religion or they’ll stay atheist little heathens (or find a different path I guess). All options are OK with me. Looks like they are going to continue to be little heathens and push back against spending time with the grandparents. The diminishing of that relationship makes me sad but maybe it’s inevitable as the kids age regardless of whether or not they pushed religious dogma.

If you really don't care if your kids decide to follow their grandparents religion, why don't you encourage kids and gps to follow that religion. It sure would ease family relationships.

Somehow, I think you DO care and are betting on your kids not taking religions seriously.

Why would I? I don’t believe in religion and so that is what I share with my kids. I have no problem with someone they love sharing a different perspective. I don’t get why you think I should encourage them to do follow a religion?

As stated above, because it would ease family relationships.

The grandparents can also make things easier by respecting the parents' preferences.

+1 And they want us to believe that religion is a good foundation for strong moral and ethical behavior.... but will shamelessly manipulate to get their way and disrespect the explicit wishes of the parents. SMH.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
We joined a church when our son was in fourth grade because we wanted him to be grounded in the history of the Christian religion,which is a cornerstone of Western civilization, as well as find a community of good people who have their hearts in the right place, and have a place where we can work for the greater good.

We found all of that in our current church. I sporadically went to church growing up, and I can't believe how much I am learning. Even all the phrases that are commonplace in our language that come straight out of the Bible. My son loves all the fun stuff the church groups are doing, and he is learning all the stories of the Bible. Again, so much of our culture is based on these stories. Even from a purely academic sense, it's smart to know them.

It's possible to learn the history of the CHristian religion in a purely academic sense without being taught to believe that it's true.

I would argue that when you become immersed in learning about religion (any religion, not just Christianity), you are far more likely to come out an unbeliever, than a believer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My in laws continuously encourage my kids to be more religious. I only step in if I don’t like the persuasion techniques (guilt, fear mongering) just as I would regardless of the topic. I have warned my MIL that she will ruin her relationship with them if she pushes too hard but that is her choice to make. I offer them full access to the kids and full control over their time together. Either the kids will decide to follow their grandparents religion or they’ll stay atheist little heathens (or find a different path I guess). All options are OK with me. Looks like they are going to continue to be little heathens and push back against spending time with the grandparents. The diminishing of that relationship makes me sad but maybe it’s inevitable as the kids age regardless of whether or not they pushed religious dogma.

If you really don't care if your kids decide to follow their grandparents religion, why don't you encourage kids and gps to follow that religion. It sure would ease family relationships.

Somehow, I think you DO care and are betting on your kids not taking religions seriously.

Why would I? I don’t believe in religion and so that is what I share with my kids. I have no problem with someone they love sharing a different perspective. I don’t get why you think I should encourage them to do follow a religion?

As stated above, because it would ease family relationships.

The grandparents can also make things easier by respecting the parents' preferences.

Yes, there are two ways of handling this, depending on the parents' wishes. That's why I think it's important for the parents to be clear -- do they really not care or would they prefer the kids not to be raised with religion? If they don't care, then letting the gps take the kids to church would ease family relationships, even while it may also be a form of "shameless manipulation."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know your Mom is right. THAT is what's bothering you.

Word.

np Wow! Your mom found this site! PPs you guys have the right to your opinion but, once op is grown up they can choose to live their lives the way they want to. There are plenty of people who go to church and yet are not good people. Of course, there are people who don't go to church who are awful too but, they are not guilting anyone into doing something they don't believe.

Just ignore, op. I go when I want to not when people tell me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
We joined a church when our son was in fourth grade because we wanted him to be grounded in the history of the Christian religion,which is a cornerstone of Western civilization, as well as find a community of good people who have their hearts in the right place, and have a place where we can work for the greater good.

We found all of that in our current church. I sporadically went to church growing up, and I can't believe how much I am learning. Even all the phrases that are commonplace in our language that come straight out of the Bible. My son loves all the fun stuff the church groups are doing, and he is learning all the stories of the Bible. Again, so much of our culture is based on these stories. Even from a purely academic sense, it's smart to know them.

It's possible to learn the history of the CHristian religion in a purely academic sense without being taught to believe that it's true.

I would argue that when you become immersed in learning about religion (any religion, not just Christianity), you are far more likely to come out an unbeliever, than a believer.

This certainly happens to some people. A close reading of the Bible has turned many away from religion because they can't fathom a loving god who would be so cruel to his creation.

Others say those people don't understand the Bible and the context in which it was written, so it doesn't interfere with their deep faith.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll give a slightly different perspective, OP. A friend was raised by a lapsed Catholic family and never learned a thing about religions. We both agree that each person should make a personal choice about religion, but friend will say that being raised with no exposure effectively took that choice away from him. He feels that as an adult it is now a bridge too far.

So he feels that the children should be raised in a faith and attend religious education, so that when they reach the age of confirmation and ultimately adulthood, the choice is 100% their to make with sufficient knowledge to guide their decision of faith. In the end, if they decline to practice a faith, they still have a decent knowledge of biblical literature, which is a great education in and of itself, and can also contribute to discussions and debates about religion in a meaningful way. This friend always feels lost in such discussions because he is smart enough to realize that he doesn't quite understands what people are talking about.

Your friend can take a course in Biblical literature any time and not feel cut off. He could send his kids to a Unitarian church where they learn about all religions and are not indoctrinated into any one religion.

There are lots of ways to learn about religion without being a member of a particular denomination.

He actually disagrees with that approach, although the Unitarian approach might cover that. But you cannot get from a class when you get from living for a while in a community of faith because there is much more to it than book learning. He gets that.

I think I understand -- there's a culture involved in attending church that is not available when reading or attending an academic class. The potential downside, is that the culture may include teaching beliefs as facts that must be accepted to avoid dire, eternal consequences.

Yes, but of course, the vast majority of main stream religions don't actually teach that, so that really is a very small cultish problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll give a slightly different perspective, OP. A friend was raised by a lapsed Catholic family and never learned a thing about religions. We both agree that each person should make a personal choice about religion, but friend will say that being raised with no exposure effectively took that choice away from him. He feels that as an adult it is now a bridge too far.

So he feels that the children should be raised in a faith and attend religious education, so that when they reach the age of confirmation and ultimately adulthood, the choice is 100% their to make with sufficient knowledge to guide their decision of faith. In the end, if they decline to practice a faith, they still have a decent knowledge of biblical literature, which is a great education in and of itself, and can also contribute to discussions and debates about religion in a meaningful way. This friend always feels lost in such discussions because he is smart enough to realize that he doesn't quite understands what people are talking about.

Your friend can take a course in Biblical literature any time and not feel cut off. He could send his kids to a Unitarian church where they learn about all religions and are not indoctrinated into any one religion.

There are lots of ways to learn about religion without being a member of a particular denomination.

He actually disagrees with that approach, although the Unitarian approach might cover that. But you cannot get from a class when you get from living for a while in a community of faith because there is much more to it than book learning. He gets that.

I think I understand -- there's a culture involved in attending church that is not available when reading or attending an academic class. The potential downside, is that the culture may include teaching beliefs as facts that must be accepted to avoid dire, eternal consequences.

Yes, but of course, the vast majority of mainstream religions don't actually teach that, so that really is a very small cultish problem.

Some of the liberal denominations gloss over the damnation bit (though it's still n the creed) but they do teach Bible stories to kids without making it clear that they are "just stories."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll give a slightly different perspective, OP. A friend was raised by a lapsed Catholic family and never learned a thing about religions. We both agree that each person should make a personal choice about religion, but friend will say that being raised with no exposure effectively took that choice away from him. He feels that as an adult it is now a bridge too far.

So he feels that the children should be raised in a faith and attend religious education, so that when they reach the age of confirmation and ultimately adulthood, the choice is 100% their to make with sufficient knowledge to guide their decision of faith. In the end, if they decline to practice a faith, they still have a decent knowledge of biblical literature, which is a great education in and of itself, and can also contribute to discussions and debates about religion in a meaningful way. This friend always feels lost in such discussions because he is smart enough to realize that he doesn't quite understands what people are talking about.

Your friend can take a course in Biblical literature any time and not feel cut off. He could send his kids to a Unitarian church where they learn about all religions and are not indoctrinated into any one religion.

There are lots of ways to learn about religion without being a member of a particular denomination.

He actually disagrees with that approach, although the Unitarian approach might cover that. But you cannot get from a class when you get from living for a while in a community of faith because there is much more to it than book learning. He gets that.

I think I understand -- there's a culture involved in attending church that is not available when reading or attending an academic class. The potential downside, is that the culture may include teaching beliefs as facts that must be accepted to avoid dire, eternal consequences.

This is only so if you choose a fundamentalist flavor of the religion in question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
We joined a church when our son was in fourth grade because we wanted him to be grounded in the history of the Christian religion,which is a cornerstone of Western civilization, as well as find a community of good people who have their hearts in the right place, and have a place where we can work for the greater good.

We found all of that in our current church. I sporadically went to church growing up, and I can't believe how much I am learning. Even all the phrases that are commonplace in our language that come straight out of the Bible. My son loves all the fun stuff the church groups are doing, and he is learning all the stories of the Bible. Again, so much of our culture is based on these stories. Even from a purely academic sense, it's smart to know them.

It's possible to learn the history of the CHristian religion in a purely academic sense without being taught to believe that it's true.

I would argue that when you become immersed in learning about religion (any religion, not just Christianity), you are far more likely to come out an unbeliever, than a believer.

This certainly happens to some people. A close reading of the Bible has turned many away from religion because they can't fathom a loving god who would be so cruel to his creation.

Others say those people don't understand the Bible and the context in which it was written, so it doesn't interfere with their deep faith.

Then they aren't reading very closely and/or they haven't read the entire story. It's easy to cherry-pick to suit one's pre-conceived notions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
We joined a church when our son was in fourth grade because we wanted him to be grounded in the history of the Christian religion,which is a cornerstone of Western civilization, as well as find a community of good people who have their hearts in the right place, and have a place where we can work for the greater good.

We found all of that in our current church. I sporadically went to church growing up, and I can't believe how much I am learning. Even all the phrases that are commonplace in our language that come straight out of the Bible. My son loves all the fun stuff the church groups are doing, and he is learning all the stories of the Bible. Again, so much of our culture is based on these stories. Even from a purely academic sense, it's smart to know them.

It's possible to learn the history of the CHristian religion in a purely academic sense without being taught to believe that it's true.

I would argue that when you become immersed in learning about religion (any religion, not just Christianity), you are far more likely to come out an unbeliever, than a believer.

This certainly happens to some people. A close reading of the Bible has turned many away from religion because they can't fathom a loving god who would be so cruel to his creation.

Others say those people don't understand the Bible and the context in which it was written, so it doesn't interfere with their deep faith.

Then they aren't reading very closely and/or they haven't read the entire story. It's easy to cherry-pick to suit one's pre-conceived notions.

All of religion is cherry picked. Books included in the canonized Bible are cherry picked. It either fits with your pre-conceived notion, or it doesn't - but it's all heavily cherry picked.