Freedom of religion vs. Hasidic jews

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What annoyed me more than the oppression of women and such was that when they wanted out that NY courts did not assist. They wanted the children of divorce to stay in the same environment. That's insane. It's like telling the kids of two abusive parents that since it's all they've known that they need to keep being abused.

The city and the state seemed to be failing this society. And how do they get around minimum schooling requirements?

This I agree with. We have a struggle in our country between individual rights and the rights of parents and religious freedom. I think it is a big problem that we don't consider it a RIGHT for children to know their first amendment rights, their rights to a free, secular education, and any other rights that their parents are withholding from them.

As for the schooling requirements, they are going to school. It's just purely religious instruction. We have no basic national standards in this country.

But arent their state standards for schooling? I had to pass exams and state tests every 3 years of so. I also had to have math, English, science, history and a foreign language to graduate. I believe the boy on there couldn't do basic math and he was over 20. I went to a private Christian school, so I do understand religious teaching, but how can the state let that be all there is?

Also, I was wondering what jobs the men got? I understand the welfare fraud but the men seem to have jobs and I don't know how they could get any jobs as they're uneducated.

Most of the men work in religious jobs (bus drivers for their schools) or they own businesses (more tax fraud).. they don't ACTUALLY WORK in AMERICAN COMPANIES. In Rockland county, NY they took over the school board, and then sold public properties to themselves at VERY discounted prices. They took NY state funds for computers in the schools (google Hasidic Jews and Rockland county or Tom's River, NJ.) NYS public money was given to the public schools for technology. But when NYS regulators visited the public schools, guess what ? NO computers, AT ALL. The Hasids said they sent them "home" with students. Which is just one reason NYS took over the public school district and why in Orange County, New York, NYS allowed them to build their own town. They also make money by suing towns all over NJ, near the Rockland border, claiming they are being "persecuted" because towns do not want eruvs on public posts or Hasidic Jews in NJ town parks. The NJ town parks have only been for those specific town residents NOT out of towners for DECADES, because local taxes paid for the parks. (The Hasidic Jews bring school buses to use these small parks, and town residents can not even get into them because of overcrowding) My AA friend in Chestnut Ridge was FORCED to move because DH worked from home and Hasidic Jews would knock on the door 30-40 times PER DAY asking them to sell, FOR MONTHS and the Hasidic Jews would walk around their house, LOOKING INTO THE WINDOWS. When they complained to authorities, they were told there was nothing that could be done. (The Hasidic Jews paid off many authorities in town, some of whom were convicted of accepting bribes (google it) Btw when they sold, they were required to use a Hasidic realtor (all other realtors were driven out of town). At closing, after my friend bought another house, her Hasidic buyers (who held up the first closing on my friend's house but assured her they would close a few days later) came to the 2nd closing with $50k less than they agreed in the contract & said that's all they had, take it or leave it. She felt forced to take it because she was the owner of 2 houses. If you ask around, you will here many similar stories (and worse)

You sound a bit unhinged about this topic. I will point out that the vast majority of what you detail are LEGAL issues that need to be dealt with through the LEGAL system. What you write about above, if true, has absolutely nothing to do with religion.

I don’t think PP sounds unhinged at all. Those stories and many more just like them have been well documented in the NYT, the Atlantic, NY Magazine and countless other media outlets. These Hasidics only care about their own community and bully and badger the local community to get what they want. Yes, much of what they’ve done is legal......they exploit loopholes in the system but that does not make it moral or ethical. And they have also engaged in many illegal tactics including intimidation, voter fraud and systemic child abuse. These are facts, not opinions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What annoyed me more than the oppression of women and such was that when they wanted out that NY courts did not assist. They wanted the children of divorce to stay in the same environment. That's insane. It's like telling the kids of two abusive parents that since it's all they've known that they need to keep being abused.

The city and the state seemed to be failing this society. And how do they get around minimum schooling requirements?

This I agree with. We have a struggle in our country between individual rights and the rights of parents and religious freedom. I think it is a big problem that we don't consider it a RIGHT for children to know their first amendment rights, their rights to a free, secular education, and any other rights that their parents are withholding from them.

As for the schooling requirements, they are going to school. It's just purely religious instruction. We have no basic national standards in this country.

But arent their state standards for schooling? I had to pass exams and state tests every 3 years of so. I also had to have math, English, science, history and a foreign language to graduate. I believe the boy on there couldn't do basic math and he was over 20. I went to a private Christian school, so I do understand religious teaching, but how can the state let that be all there is?

Also, I was wondering what jobs the men got? I understand the welfare fraud but the men seem to have jobs and I don't know how they could get any jobs as they're uneducated.

Most of the men work in religious jobs (bus drivers for their schools) or they own businesses (more tax fraud).. they don't ACTUALLY WORK in AMERICAN COMPANIES. In Rockland county, NY they took over the school board, and then sold public properties to themselves at VERY discounted prices. They took NY state funds for computers in the schools (google Hasidic Jews and Rockland county or Tom's River, NJ.) NYS public money was given to the public schools for technology. But when NYS regulators visited the public schools, guess what ? NO computers, AT ALL. The Hasids said they sent them "home" with students. Which is just one reason NYS took over the public school district and why in Orange County, New York, NYS allowed them to build their own town. They also make money by suing towns all over NJ, near the Rockland border, claiming they are being "persecuted" because towns do not want eruvs on public posts or Hasidic Jews in NJ town parks. The NJ town parks have only been for those specific town residents NOT out of towners for DECADES, because local taxes paid for the parks. (The Hasidic Jews bring school buses to use these small parks, and town residents can not even get into them because of overcrowding) My AA friend in Chestnut Ridge was FORCED to move because DH worked from home and Hasidic Jews would knock on the door 30-40 times PER DAY asking them to sell, FOR MONTHS and the Hasidic Jews would walk around their house, LOOKING INTO THE WINDOWS. When they complained to authorities, they were told there was nothing that could be done. (The Hasidic Jews paid off many authorities in town, some of whom were convicted of accepting bribes (google it) Btw when they sold, they were required to use a Hasidic realtor (all other realtors were driven out of town). At closing, after my friend bought another house, her Hasidic buyers (who held up the first closing on my friend's house but assured her they would close a few days later) came to the 2nd closing with $50k less than they agreed in the contract & said that's all they had, take it or leave it. She felt forced to take it because she was the owner of 2 houses. If you ask around, you will here many similar stories (and worse)

You sound a bit unhinged about this topic. I will point out that the vast majority of what you detail are LEGAL issues that need to be dealt with through the LEGAL system. What you write about above, if true, has absolutely nothing to do with religion.

I don’t think PP sounds unhinged at all. Those stories and many more just like them have been well documented in the NYT, the Atlantic, NY Magazine and countless other media outlets. These Hasidics only care about their own community and bully and badger the local community to get what they want. Yes, much of what they’ve done is legal......they exploit loopholes in the system but that does not make it moral or ethical. And they have also engaged in many illegal tactics including intimidation, voter fraud and systemic child abuse. These are facts, not opinions.

Ok,but again so much of what is listed here is illegal. So the question is why isn’t the legal system dealing with them? This is not about freedom of religion, as most fanatical do they are acting like criminals. The whole original point of thisnpoast was freedom of religion vs Hasids (and I’m guessing the Satmars in particular) and I do not think that any of this fits into freedom of religion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What annoyed me more than the oppression of women and such was that when they wanted out that NY courts did not assist. They wanted the children of divorce to stay in the same environment. That's insane. It's like telling the kids of two abusive parents that since it's all they've known that they need to keep being abused.

The city and the state seemed to be failing this society. And how do they get around minimum schooling requirements?

This I agree with. We have a struggle in our country between individual rights and the rights of parents and religious freedom. I think it is a big problem that we don't consider it a RIGHT for children to know their first amendment rights, their rights to a free, secular education, and any other rights that their parents are withholding from them.

As for the schooling requirements, they are going to school. It's just purely religious instruction. We have no basic national standards in this country.

But arent their state standards for schooling? I had to pass exams and state tests every 3 years of so. I also had to have math, English, science, history and a foreign language to graduate. I believe the boy on there couldn't do basic math and he was over 20. I went to a private Christian school, so I do understand religious teaching, but how can the state let that be all there is?

Also, I was wondering what jobs the men got? I understand the welfare fraud but the men seem to have jobs and I don't know how they could get any jobs as they're uneducated.

Most of the men work in religious jobs (bus drivers for their schools) or they own businesses (more tax fraud).. they don't ACTUALLY WORK in AMERICAN COMPANIES. In Rockland county, NY they took over the school board, and then sold public properties to themselves at VERY discounted prices. They took NY state funds for computers in the schools (google Hasidic Jews and Rockland county or Tom's River, NJ.) NYS public money was given to the public schools for technology. But when NYS regulators visited the public schools, guess what ? NO computers, AT ALL. The Hasids said they sent them "home" with students. Which is just one reason NYS took over the public school district and why in Orange County, New York, NYS allowed them to build their own town. They also make money by suing towns all over NJ, near the Rockland border, claiming they are being "persecuted" because towns do not want eruvs on public posts or Hasidic Jews in NJ town parks. The NJ town parks have only been for those specific town residents NOT out of towners for DECADES, because local taxes paid for the parks. (The Hasidic Jews bring school buses to use these small parks, and town residents can not even get into them because of overcrowding) My AA friend in Chestnut Ridge was FORCED to move because DH worked from home and Hasidic Jews would knock on the door 30-40 times PER DAY asking them to sell, FOR MONTHS and the Hasidic Jews would walk around their house, LOOKING INTO THE WINDOWS. When they complained to authorities, they were told there was nothing that could be done. (The Hasidic Jews paid off many authorities in town, some of whom were convicted of accepting bribes (google it) Btw when they sold, they were required to use a Hasidic realtor (all other realtors were driven out of town). At closing, after my friend bought another house, her Hasidic buyers (who held up the first closing on my friend's house but assured her they would close a few days later) came to the 2nd closing with $50k less than they agreed in the contract & said that's all they had, take it or leave it. She felt forced to take it because she was the owner of 2 houses. If you ask around, you will here many similar stories (and worse)

You sound a bit unhinged about this topic. I will point out that the vast majority of what you detail are LEGAL issues that need to be dealt with through the LEGAL system. What you write about above, if true, has absolutely nothing to do with religion.

I don’t think PP sounds unhinged at all. Those stories and many more just like them have been well documented in the NYT, the Atlantic, NY Magazine and countless other media outlets. These Hasidics only care about their own community and bully and badger the local community to get what they want. Yes, much of what they’ve done is legal......they exploit loopholes in the system but that does not make it moral or ethical. And they have also engaged in many illegal tactics including intimidation, voter fraud and systemic child abuse. These are facts, not opinions.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lawyer here.

Generally, the government e does not intervene in how parents raise their children or their intimate marital practices. Not allowing your children to read secular books is not a crime. Neither is banning the internet or not using birth control or women not voting or women not asserting themselves.

What you describe as "taking over towns and immediately disenfranchising immigrants" is happening all over this country, OP. Do you read the news?

I don't like the way Hasids act either, but I think that your outrage is kind of ironic. Let's oppress this oppressive group!

What a bizarre world view. I see the people being brought up in the Hasidic community as being oppressed and stripped of basic human rights. It's no different than other religious cults that attempt to cut their members off from the rest of society and place high barriers to exit based on threats, intimidation and worse. Furthermore, i would see the communities that these Hasidics invade as being oppressed. They suffer from school and local town budgets being gutted and end up completely disenfranchised. Nobody is saying to oppress the oppressive group......I'm saying give the oppressed back their basic rights.

Do you know any hasidim? I do. Both people in the community, and people who have left. The barriers to leaving are social ostracism, etc. For married adults likely a custody battle (they have kids shortly after marriage) For younger people, the lack of a good education and difficulty functioning in secular city. Nonetheless every year many do leave, and find their way in our hard to navigate secular society.

If you really care about those people, you can donate to https://www.footstepsorg.org/ which helps people trying to leave that world.

I have never heard of violence against someone who just wants to leave. There have been occasions of violence on other issues, mostly from particular sects like Skver, not the mainstream hasidic groupls. While banning elected school boards from disposing of school buildings as they see fit may well be good public policy, it is not going to help any oppressed people in the community. It does not sound like you are as interested in helping hasidic women, as in bashing hasidim.

BTW, there are changes in the community. I see parents more accepting of kids who have left the fold than in the past. I see women getting better post HS education than in the past, and getting more professional jobs (though they are allowing that largely to ease economic strains)

These school boards are draining public school budgets and increasing funding of vouchers for private schools which of course supports the orthodox schools they all send their kids to. How on earth is that not harming the minority and immigrant populations in those school districts? Read the Atlantic article that a PP pasted or a great piece in NY Magazine.....there is plenty of documented abuse you can educate yourself about. You're an obvious apologist for these barbaric people and don't you dare question my motives.

http://www.rocklandpost.com/2016/11/04/rockland-county-a-county-divided-2/
above is just ONE link detailing just some of the corruption.

Btw at one particular school board meeting one of the Hasidic Jew members, called one of the immigrant woman a very vulgar term when she asked a question at a school board meeting, IN FRONT OF EVERYONE. This was not the first or last time, either.

So don't even think of comparing this group with Amish, Lutherans, Catholics, etc... Other groups may not be great, but leaders do NOT publically act this way!

Um our president just referred to immigrants as coming from shithole countries. So yes other leaders do act this way!!

(Not defending Hasidic Jews btw)