Freedom of religion vs. Hasidic jews

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Have you people followed what has happened in communities like Kiryas Joel in New Yorl? Absolutely sickening and disgusting. And these poor immigrants who have no idea how the system can be manipulated are completely screwed before they even know what's happening. Why don't mainstream jews speak out against these atrocities?????

Please say more

[Anonymous]

Lawyer here.

Generally, the government e does not intervene in how parents raise their children or their intimate marital practices. Not allowing your children to read secular books is not a crime. Neither is banning the internet or not using birth control or women not voting or women not asserting themselves.

What you describe as "taking over towns and immediately disenfranchising immigrants" is happening all over this country, OP. Do you read the news?

I don't like the way Hasids act either, but I think that your outrage is kind of ironic. Let's oppress this oppressive group!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Have you people followed what has happened in communities like Kiryas Joel in New Yorl? Absolutely sickening and disgusting. And these poor immigrants who have no idea how the system can be manipulated are completely screwed before they even know what's happening. Why don't mainstream jews speak out against these atrocities?????

Monsey is another.

[Anonymous]

"I *think* not all register as married, so there are a lot of hasidic 'single mothers' with many children. They are married in a religious sense. "

They don't "register" as married, or they're not legally married? What do you men by "married in a religious sense"?

Are you also suggesting that any single mother on welfare who has intimate relations with a man is also committing welfare fraud?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lawyer here.

Generally, the government e does not intervene in how parents raise their children or their intimate marital practices. Not allowing your children to read secular books is not a crime. Neither is banning the internet or not using birth control or women not voting or women not asserting themselves.

What you describe as "taking over towns and immediately disenfranchising immigrants" is happening all over this country, OP. Do you read the news?

I don't like the way Hasids act either, but I think that your outrage is kind of ironic. Let's oppress this oppressive group!

What a bizarre world view. I see the people being brought up in the Hasidic community as being oppressed and stripped of basic human rights. It's no different than other religious cults that attempt to cut their members off from the rest of society and place high barriers to exit based on threats, intimidation and worse. Furthermore, i would see the communities that these Hasidics invade as being oppressed. They suffer from school and local town budgets being gutted and end up completely disenfranchised. Nobody is saying to oppress the oppressive group......I'm saying give the oppressed back their basic rights.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know some of the people involved in One Of Us (although none of the protagonists).
First, much of what is in the film is absolutely sickening, terrible, heartbreaking, should be illegal etc.

We should be careful not to overgeneralize though; not all Hasidic communities/sub-communities-- and certainly not all Hasids-- are like what is portrayed in the film.

In my personal opinion, fanaticism of all stripes is bad. And, yes, there are a lot of similarities between certain hasidic communities and fundamentalists of other religions.

There has been a big shift in the last 15-20 years where in America Hasidic kids are not receiving 'decent' educations in many of their schools. there are lawsuits about this in NJ right now. (My brother who is a secularaly (and religiously) educated orthodox Jew but not hasidic taught in one for a little while, and he said it was beyond terrible how little respect many of the families and administrations have for secular education). I personally think there is an opportunity for advocacy and enforcement around their schools. In NY and I think NJ, it is particularly complicated due to some political realities and voting patterns. In the DC area, the only area with a larger hasdic populationis Baltimore, and I'm not familiar enough with that community to know how prevalent the disregard for a decent secular education is.

+1 Agreed, and it's hard to tell Hasids apart from fundamentalist muslims. Both forbid women from being educated or intermingling with men. Both forbid children from secular education. Both ignore basic human rights. And yet we're bombing and drone striking the muslims but letting these Hasidic luddites run free? WTF America?????

Hasidic Jews didn't hijack our planes and crash them into buildings, and they're not trying to cut off our heads or run us down with box trucks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lawyer here.

Generally, the government e does not intervene in how parents raise their children or their intimate marital practices. Not allowing your children to read secular books is not a crime. Neither is banning the internet or not using birth control or women not voting or women not asserting themselves.

What you describe as "taking over towns and immediately disenfranchising immigrants" is happening all over this country, OP. Do you read the news?

I don't like the way Hasids act either, but I think that your outrage is kind of ironic. Let's oppress this oppressive group!

What a bizarre world view. I see the people being brought up in the Hasidic community as being oppressed and stripped of basic human rights. It's no different than other religious cults that attempt to cut their members off from the rest of society and place high barriers to exit based on threats, intimidation and worse. Furthermore, i would see the communities that these Hasidics invade as being oppressed. They suffer from school and local town budgets being gutted and end up completely disenfranchised. Nobody is saying to oppress the oppressive group......I'm saying give the oppressed back their basic rights.

Cite the specific laws that you see them violating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lawyer here.

Generally, the government e does not intervene in how parents raise their children or their intimate marital practices. Not allowing your children to read secular books is not a crime. Neither is banning the internet or not using birth control or women not voting or women not asserting themselves.

What you describe as "taking over towns and immediately disenfranchising immigrants" is happening all over this country, OP. Do you read the news?

I don't like the way Hasids act either, but I think that your outrage is kind of ironic. Let's oppress this oppressive group!

What a bizarre world view. I see the people being brought up in the Hasidic community as being oppressed and stripped of basic human rights. It's no different than other religious cults that attempt to cut their members off from the rest of society and place high barriers to exit based on threats, intimidation and worse. Furthermore, i would see the communities that these Hasidics invade as being oppressed. They suffer from school and local town budgets being gutted and end up completely disenfranchised. Nobody is saying to oppress the oppressive group......I'm saying give the oppressed back their basic rights.

That worked out really well for the federal government in Waco with the Branch Dividians.

[Anonymous]

They're a cult that happens to be Jewish. They grow from within, by having their girls marry young and have large families. They don't educate their children to state standards, so they are isolated and unable to make a living outside the cult. They shun anyone who chooses to leave, preventing contact with friends, family, and children. The leaders tell the community who to vote for, and they do in a large bloc, so they buy off politicians. The leaders control a lot of money, but the community members get by on welfare and Medicaid.

There are similarities to fundamentalist Christian groups, but a big difference is that those groups usually establish themselves in rural areas so there is less interaction with outsiders. Hasidics are currently in densely populated areas around NYC which leads to conflict with the people around them. Their high birth rates mean the population is expanding, doubling in short time periods, so their need for housing is increasing rapidly and the infrastructure can't handle it and their neighbor's don't want the density.

I grew up near New Square and it's a huge issue. It breaks my heart to see what they've done to the East Ramapo school district, which was a great school district when I went nearby 30 years ago. B

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They're a cult that happens to be Jewish. They grow from within, by having their girls marry young and have large families. They don't educate their children to state standards, so they are isolated and unable to make a living outside the cult. They shun anyone who chooses to leave, preventing contact with friends, family, and children. The leaders tell the community who to vote for, and they do in a large bloc, so they buy off politicians. The leaders control a lot of money, but the community members get by on welfare and Medicaid.

There are similarities to fundamentalist Christian groups, but a big difference is that those groups usually establish themselves in rural areas so there is less interaction with outsiders. Hasidics are currently in densely populated areas around NYC which leads to conflict with the people around them. Their high birth rates mean the population is expanding, doubling in short time periods, so their need for housing is increasing rapidly and the infrastructure can't handle it and their neighbor's don't want the density.

I grew up near New Square and it's a huge issue. It breaks my heart to see what they've done to the East Ramapo school district, which was a great school district when I went nearby 30 years ago. B

This is a good summary. It happens in nearly every religious community too. Christians, muslims and Jews all have their fanatic branches.

[Anonymous]

What annoyed me more than the oppression of women and such was that when they wanted out that NY courts did not assist. They wanted the children of divorce to stay in the same environment. That's insane. It's like telling the kids of two abusive parents that since it's all they've known that they need to keep being abused.

The city and the state seemed to be failing this society. And how do they get around minimum schooling requirements?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you people followed what has happened in communities like Kiryas Joel in New Yorl? Absolutely sickening and disgusting. And these poor immigrants who have no idea how the system can be manipulated are completely screwed before they even know what's happening. Why don't mainstream jews speak out against these atrocities?????

Monsey is another.

And Lakewood, NJ.

OP, where can I see the documentary?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What annoyed me more than the oppression of women and such was that when they wanted out that NY courts did not assist. They wanted the children of divorce to stay in the same environment. That's insane. It's like telling the kids of two abusive parents that since it's all they've known that they need to keep being abused.

The city and the state seemed to be failing this society. And how do they get around minimum schooling requirements?

This I agree with. We have a struggle in our country between individual rights and the rights of parents and religious freedom. I think it is a big problem that we don't consider it a RIGHT for children to know their first amendment rights, their rights to a free, secular education, and any other rights that their parents are withholding from them.

As for the schooling requirements, they are going to school. It's just purely religious instruction. We have no basic national standards in this country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you people followed what has happened in communities like Kiryas Joel in New Yorl? Absolutely sickening and disgusting. And these poor immigrants who have no idea how the system can be manipulated are completely screwed before they even know what's happening. Why don't mainstream jews speak out against these atrocities?????

Monsey is another.

And Lakewood, NJ.

OP, where can I see the documentary?

Netflix

[Anonymous]

I'm a mainstream Jew. I don't live in any of these communities. How would I have any idea that this is going on?

Not to mention, what would be the point of me speaking out about it? They don't care what I think. Are you suggesting that I should basically be reassuring my neighbors that most Jews aren't like that? You know, like Muslims are now required to explain that most Muslims aren't terrorists?

Are you, a mainstream Christian, aware of all the abuses happening in the name of Christ?