Looks like some more schools need to have their names changed (Thomas Jefferson)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue I have with all this focus on name changes and monuments is that we then are saying that no one should be honored who has any sin and that's not achievable. It gives people the impression that there's nothing they can do to be honored in society because they aren't perfect.

That's not true at all. The point is that, if a school's namesake is really only known for one thing, and that is fighting to preserve slavery, the name is not appropriate in 2017. Some historical figures are more complex than others. You are constructing straw-man arguments to justify glorifying the Confederacy.

Thomas Jefferson, the author of the Declaration of Independence, had nothing to do with the Confederacy.

[Anonymous]

they fought for states rights. It wasn't about slavery for all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:they fought for states rights. It wasn't about slavery for all.

NP, but no. Just no. Only southern states teach this distortion of history to their students.

They fought for state's rights TO OWN SLAVES. That's it. They weren't going to war for some abstract concept of the rights of each state. They went to war to preserve their economy, which was predicated upon the free labor only available through slavery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue I have with all this focus on name changes and monuments is that we then are saying that no one should be honored who has any sin and that's not achievable. It gives people the impression that there's nothing they can do to be honored in society because they aren't perfect.

That's not true at all. The point is that, if a school's namesake is really only known for one thing, and that is fighting to preserve slavery, the name is not appropriate in 2017. Some historical figures are more complex than others. You are constructing straw-man arguments to justify glorifying the Confederacy.

Thomas Jefferson, the author of the Declaration of Independence, had nothing to do with the Confederacy.

In that case, it seems rather unlikely that the school's name will change, doesn't it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:they fought for states rights. It wasn't about slavery for all.

NP, but no. Just no. Only southern states teach this distortion of history to their students.

They fought for state's rights TO OWN SLAVES. That's it. They weren't going to war for some abstract concept of the rights of each state. They went to war to preserve their economy, which was predicated upon the free labor only available through slavery.

Nope. I was taught this in both New York and Massachusetts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue I have with all this focus on name changes and monuments is that we then are saying that no one should be honored who has any sin and that's not achievable. It gives people the impression that there's nothing they can do to be honored in society because they aren't perfect.

That's not true at all. The point is that, if a school's namesake is really only known for one thing, and that is fighting to preserve slavery, the name is not appropriate in 2017. Some historical figures are more complex than others. You are constructing straw-man arguments to justify glorifying the Confederacy.

Thomas Jefferson, the author of the Declaration of Independence, had nothing to do with the Confederacy.

In that case, it seems rather unlikely that the school's name will change, doesn't it?

I hope so but changing the name of Thomas Jefferson was the original topic for this thread.

[Anonymous]

Ten years ago no one would have suggested spending millions of dollars to change the names of schools. Yet, one of the School Board candidates is on record that she wants to change the names of three FCPS schools. And, the expense would be in the millions.

People are already condemning TJ and discussing changing the name. How long will it be before it is up for a vote?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue I have with all this focus on name changes and monuments is that we then are saying that no one should be honored who has any sin and that's not achievable. It gives people the impression that there's nothing they can do to be honored in society because they aren't perfect.

That's not true at all. The point is that, if a school's namesake is really only known for one thing, and that is fighting to preserve slavery, the name is not appropriate in 2017. Some historical figures are more complex than others. You are constructing straw-man arguments to justify glorifying the Confederacy.

Thomas Jefferson, the author of the Declaration of Independence, had nothing to do with the Confederacy.

In that case, it seems rather unlikely that the school's name will change, doesn't it?

I hope so but changing the name of Thomas Jefferson was the original topic for this thread.

Well, not really. Changing the name of TJ is primarily a straw-man argument advanced by those opposed to changing the names of Stuart and Lee.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ten years ago no one would have suggested spending millions of dollars to change the names of schools. Yet, one of the School Board candidates is on record that she wants to change the names of three FCPS schools. And, the expense would be in the millions.

People are already condemning TJ and discussing changing the name. How long will it be before it is up for a vote?

It wouldn't have cost anything had the School Board not foolishly named two schools after Confederate generals during the "massive resistance" era, and then disregarded its own policy of naming schools after prominent, deceased Americans to name a school after a then-living former Superintendent a few years later.

Even so, it won't cost "millions" now if all three of those names get changed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hell to the no.

My ancestor is TJ and he may have owned slaves but *shrug* lots of people did back then. It's a reality of history.

I hope this current trend of erasure ends soon, because it's incredibly silly and dumb.

+1
I think the only positive thing about the effort to erase our history is that it is forcing our students (and adult population) to do some research about our ancestors.
Truth is...... you would be hard pressed to find ANY human being without faults or blemishes. We all sin. That is what makes us human.

+1

I find it tedious also that we are suddenly supposed to be ashamed of our history. If you are asian, there's a high likelihood you're related to Genghis Khan who is perhaps the most prolific mass murdered in history. Does that need to be brought up every time? Probably not. IF you are white and related to slave owners- okay. Pretty sure everyone has someone in their history who did something wrong.

We really need to get over this self flagellation as a country. It's incredibly tedious

+1000

+1001. We cannot rewrite history or erase our past.

Those who complain about "erasing history" when it comes to removing Confederate names and monuments, on balance, know less about U.S. history than others.

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2017/07/03/those-who-support-the-presence-of-confederate-symbols-in-public-spaces-in-the-south-tend-to-have-less-knowledge-of-civil-war-history-negating-a-commonly-used-defense-that-the-emblems-represent/

[Anonymous]

Even so, it won't cost "millions" now if all three of those names get changed.

The estimate is $700K.
'50has there any proposal that has cost less than the estimate?
This does not include the cost to the families to purchase new Spirit gear, etc. (That was one of the complaints during high school redistricting by parents --especially those who had several kids in the schools. )
So, yes, the cost will be a@$1million per school. Less for Mosby Woods, I guess. (That will come up, too, I am sure.)

No, the schools should likely not have been named as they were. But, schools were named after Confederate generals long before the '50's.

Is Mark Twain next? This could be neverending.

Bottom line: we cannot afford it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Even so, it won't cost "millions" now if all three of those names get changed.

The estimate is $700K.
'50has there any proposal that has cost less than the estimate?
This does not include the cost to the families to purchase new Spirit gear, etc. (That was one of the complaints during high school redistricting by parents --especially those who had several kids in the schools. )
So, yes, the cost will be a@$1million per school. Less for Mosby Woods, I guess. (That will come up, too, I am sure.)

No, the schools should likely not have been named as they were. But, schools were named after Confederate generals long before the '50's.

Is Mark Twain next? This could be neverending.

Bottom line: we cannot afford it.

We should take one school at a time. The cost will be less than $675K when private donations are raised, and recurring costs that would be incurred in the normal course should not be included.

Bottom line: FCPS should not capitulate again to the neo-Confederates, as it did in the mid-1950s when it changed the name of its "Committee on Desegregation" to the "Segregation Committee. It's time to change the names of Stuart and Lee.

[Anonymous]

We should take one school at a time. The cost will be less than $675K when private donations are raised, and recurring costs that would be incurred in the normal course should not be included.

Bottom line: FCPS should not capitulate again to the neo-Confederates, as it did in the mid-1950s when it changed the name of its "Committee on Desegregation" to the "Segregation Committee. It's time to change the names of Stuart and Lee.

It's not a matter of "neo-Confederates". It is a matter of money.

Raise the private donations and then have a vote. And, those "recurring costs" that you mentioned are coming out of the pocketbooks of families. And, they had expected not to have those "recurring costs".

Once more, raise the money--then, take the vote.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

We should take one school at a time. The cost will be less than $675K when private donations are raised, and recurring costs that would be incurred in the normal course should not be included.

Bottom line: FCPS should not capitulate again to the neo-Confederates, as it did in the mid-1950s when it changed the name of its "Committee on Desegregation" to the "Segregation Committee. It's time to change the names of Stuart and Lee.

It's not a matter of "neo-Confederates". It is a matter of money.

Raise the private donations and then have a vote. And, those "recurring costs" that you mentioned are coming out of the pocketbooks of families. And, they had expected not to have those "recurring costs".

Once more, raise the money--then, take the vote.

This should be a matter, first and foremost, of principle and righting historical wrongs. Morality should not come with a price tag attached. Do you honestly not realize that those who sought to preserve slavery once argued that the cost of emancipation would be too onerous?

Having said that, the opponents of a name change should stop exaggerating the likely costs.

[Anonymous]

This should be a matter, first and foremost, of principle and righting historical wrongs. Morality should not come with a price tag attached. Do you honestly not realize that those who sought to preserve slavery once argued that the cost of emancipation would be too onerous?

Having said that, the opponents of a name change should stop exaggerating the likely costs.

More teachers could do a lot of good in a school like Stuart.

That's the cost of this re-naming.