The college arms race is harming us as parents and making our kids sick!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter has ended up with serious physical illness due to all the pressure at her school and among her peers to get into what is perceived as the "right" school. Her college applications are done and she has chosen a university - not her first or second choice - but one with a highly ranked program in her major and significant financial aid. Despite this, she keeps doubting herself. My wife and I have told her to stop worrying ( something I was surprised to hear my DW say, since she is IMHO an overbearing parent and only I moderate her influence on DD) and to gratefully accept what she has received. My DD is now seeing a therapist because of all the anxiety this has created, and she is on serious medications for what could be a lifelong chronic illness caused by all the anxiety. All this needs to stop! We are not helping are kids by demanding they be perfect! If having a happy, healthy daughter with a C average means having a happy, healthy daughter, I will take that over the A+ with the perfect mix of ECs and the Ivy admittance!

I am a big fan of Julie Lythcott - Haims, formerly a Dean of Admissions at Stanford, noted author of "How to Raise an Adult" and the host of the "Getting In" podcast. The purpose of raising out kids is to raise them to be happy , successful adults, and, contrary to some popular opinions on these boards, happy and successful adults do come out other universities and colleges other than the very small number of them who reject the majority of their applicants yet which many parents seem to focus all their attention as the key to good and happy life.

https://www.ted.com/talks/julie_lythcott_haims_how_to_raise_successful_kids_without_over_parenting

But you have to realize that over all these years of her school career starting back in K, that you created and sustained the atmosphere and pressure.

I would say hindsight is 20/20 but you seem pretty educated so I would guess you knew all along that this could happen to your child, you just kept believing it would not.

I am curious to hear from the OP too. I don't believe that the child who was raised with a strong moral values and character will bend under the peer pressure. I also have kids in FCPS and I don't believe that school can put any pressure. It is just a flows of the character of the child who broke down with the slightest pressure.

OP, can you honestly says that neither you or your wife were pressuring her for years (maybe indirectly, like admiring someone who got to Yale or something like that)?

How old are your kids, pp? My kids definitely sense pressure in FCPS.

I have one junior in HS, others still younger. Junior was able to maintain all As without any pressure (we never asked them for grades and never checking homework after the 3rd grade). She is taking all hard APs (Physics, Chemistry, Algebra, Biology, etc.) and getting all As in them too. She is totally not stressed about college application, refused to go to SAT study program, took first SAT in January and got above 1500 without any preparation. She does sports, so maybe this is takes a pressure off.

Since when is there a Algebra AP?

Which Physics AP? There are several.

She takes Physics 1

Is she planning on taking Physics C next year? Which AP Calculus class is she in?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


Since when is there a Algebra AP?

Sorry, you are correct. I just checked her course list, it is Calculus . I am a foreigner, so for me it is all math.

If you pay so little attention to your daughter that you don't even know that she is taking calculus, not algebra, so late in the year, no wonder your wife feels like she has to be a tiger mom. Maybe if you paid more attention to her, she wouldn't feel so pressured. She probably is striving, hoping that if she does well enough, you'll actually care enough to know what courses she is taking.

[Anonymous]

19:12 I think you are not responding to the OP. I know this because I am the OP and my DD doesn't take AP classes. She's in an IB school and a full IB diploma candidate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


Since when is there a Algebra AP?

Sorry, you are correct. I just checked her course list, it is Calculus . I am a foreigner, so for me it is all math.

If you pay so little attention to your daughter that you don't even know that she is taking calculus, not algebra, so late in the year, no wonder your wife feels like she has to be a tiger mom. Maybe if you paid more attention to her, she wouldn't feel so pressured. She probably is striving, hoping that if she does well enough, you'll actually care enough to know what courses she is taking.

I think you confused me with OP. I am the pp and I posted earlier that we never control our kids and never checked their homework after the 3rd grade. They all made their schedules and just informed us. They all getting 4.0 unweighted GPA so far. I am the mom by the way. I do pay attention to my kids life, but I never pressure them to take specific courses just because every one else kids doing it. And I have my life too, so I don't memorize my kids schedule.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

She takes Physics 1

Is she planning on taking Physics C next year? Which AP Calculus class is she in?

Yes, Physics C for next year as her college major will be physics related. I am not sure which calculus class is she in now, need to check.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP, sorry to hear the news and sorry about all of the bizarre comments. My advice is time off for daughter. Can she defwr a semester or year? If so, do it. Take the summer and unwind her coil and get her breathing again. Don't use meds for a substitute for the unwinding coil and time off, you still need the unwind. Go for a nice walk every morning, esp this summer. Kids nerves get fried and so does the adrenals and thyroid--->> so you must get a thyroid panel blood test. In other words, parts of the birnout can be physical. Go get a good physical and check it out. I bet she's overworked and needs to recover.
Signed,
Been there/done that

Good advice.
Meds are risks business, so should be only a last resort.

What is wrong with you? If the child had cancer, you wouldn't regard chemo as a "last resort."

Don't be such a bloody idiot. This attitude is what's wrong with this country and how we regard mental illness. Medication to treat mental illness is NOT risky and NOT a last resort. On the contrary, AVOIDING them can do lifelong harm to people.

Jesus. Get a clue.

[Anonymous]

OP here. I'm signing off. This discussion has gone off he rails.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not putting the blame on either you or your wife, but are the either of you professionally successful?

I grew up in a household where my mom has a PhD in biochem, dad is a renowned doctor in his field, and brother finished college early with 4.0 and got into med school (he also had the accompany stats like 1600 SAT--this was in early 2000's, skipped senior year yaddee yada) and is now a cardiologist. I, on the other hand, was the black sheep of the family and rebelled anything remotely related to my parent's profession and coasted throughout life. My brother on the other hand was opposite from me and constantly received pressure from himself to live up to our parent's unspoken expectations. I guess I turned out alright myself, somehow got into law school and now working a very fulfilling job as an attorney at a renowned government agency in my field. At the end of the day, I relied on my genetically given intelligence more than effort.

Having said all that, I think it really depends on what type of person DD is and not what society has forced her to become. Again, not blaming this on the two of you, but did you or your wife set the bar really high in term of academic success and ingrained that into the mind of DD during her formative years?

This is a word salad.

[Anonymous]

OP, just in case you will still be checking in. What I found helpful is to remind my kids that they not going to school to get grades, they are going to get education. When they are 30-40 y.o., no one would care what they got in the Chemistry class, but everyone would know how well educated they are. I am very proud that they always were As students, but every time we received the report cards, I keep reminding them that there are bigger things in the life. We always talked to them that they getting education for themselves, not us. We don't need those grades, they might need them when applying to colleges. And another thing that we always made a priority is their health: I keep telling them that no singly Ivy worth damaged nerves. You still can get to the college years later after school, but once you damage your health, it is gone and you cannot buy it for any money in the world.

My older child also brought up interesting point when we were talking about classmates and school friends: she said the chances that she will see them after graduating from the HS are almost 0, that is why she never cared much about their opinions or their college admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP, sorry to hear the news and sorry about all of the bizarre comments. My advice is time off for daughter. Can she defwr a semester or year? If so, do it. Take the summer and unwind her coil and get her breathing again. Don't use meds for a substitute for the unwinding coil and time off, you still need the unwind. Go for a nice walk every morning, esp this summer. Kids nerves get fried and so does the adrenals and thyroid--->> so you must get a thyroid panel blood test. In other words, parts of the birnout can be physical. Go get a good physical and check it out. I bet she's overworked and needs to recover.
Signed,
Been there/done that

Good advice.
Meds are risks business, so should be only a last resort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not putting the blame on either you or your wife, but are the either of you professionally successful?

I grew up in a household where my mom has a PhD in biochem, dad is a renowned doctor in his field, and brother finished college early with 4.0 and got into med school (he also had the accompany stats like 1600 SAT--this was in early 2000's, skipped senior year yaddee yada) and is now a cardiologist. I, on the other hand, was the black sheep of the family and rebelled anything remotely related to my parent's profession and coasted throughout life. My brother on the other hand was opposite from me and constantly received pressure from himself to live up to our parent's unspoken expectations. I guess I turned out alright myself, somehow got into law school and now working a very fulfilling job as an attorney at a renowned government agency in my field. At the end of the day, I relied on my genetically given intelligence more than effort.

Having said all that, I think it really depends on what type of person DD is and not what society has forced her to become. Again, not blaming this on the two of you, but did you or your wife set the bar really high in term of academic success and ingrained that into the mind of DD during her formative years?

Define "professionally successful." I guess that depends on your career field. My father graduated from the Naval Academy, went on to pilot training and received the Distinguished Flying Cross in Vietnam, became a lawyer in civilian life while continuing to fly search and rescue for the USAFR. However, I doubt this is "professionally successful" by DCUM standards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP, sorry to hear the news and sorry about all of the bizarre comments. My advice is time off for daughter. Can she defwr a semester or year? If so, do it. Take the summer and unwind her coil and get her breathing again. Don't use meds for a substitute for the unwinding coil and time off, you still need the unwind. Go for a nice walk every morning, esp this summer. Kids nerves get fried and so does the adrenals and thyroid--->> so you must get a thyroid panel blood test. In other words, parts of the birnout can be physical. Go get a good physical and check it out. I bet she's overworked and needs to recover.
Signed,
Been there/done that

Good advice.
Meds are risks business, so should be only a last resort.

What is wrong with you? If the child had cancer, you wouldn't regard chemo as a "last resort."

Don't be such a bloody idiot. This attitude is what's wrong with this country and how we regard mental illness. Medication to treat mental illness is NOT risky and NOT a last resort. On the contrary, AVOIDING them can do lifelong harm to people.

Jesus. Get a clue.

I agree completely. My son was diagnosed with depression last year, something that runs in my family. I only wish I had started medication for myself earlier, instead of slogging through years of depression. He was immediately put on an antidepressant. I'm not about to wring my hands wondering if he should be "medicated." If he was diabetic, we'd give him insulin. He has a serotonin imbalance, and now it's corrected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter has ended up with serious physical illness due to all the pressure at her school and among her peers to get into what is perceived as the "right" school. Her college applications are done and she has chosen a university - not her first or second choice - but one with a highly ranked program in her major and significant financial aid. Despite this, she keeps doubting herself. My wife and I have told her to stop worrying ( something I was surprised to hear my DW say, since she is IMHO an overbearing parent and only I moderate her influence on DD) and to gratefully accept what she has received. My DD is now seeing a therapist because of all the anxiety this has created, and she is on serious medications for what could be a lifelong chronic illness caused by all the anxiety. All this needs to stop! We are not helping are kids by demanding they be perfect! If having a happy, healthy daughter with a C average means having a happy, healthy daughter, I will take that over the A+ with the perfect mix of ECs and the Ivy admittance!

I am a big fan of Julie Lythcott - Haims, formerly a Dean of Admissions at Stanford, noted author of "How to Raise an Adult" and the host of the "Getting In" podcast. The purpose of raising out kids is to raise them to be happy , successful adults, and, contrary to some popular opinions on these boards, happy and successful adults do come out other universities and colleges other than the very small number of them who reject the majority of their applicants yet which many parents seem to focus all their attention as the key to good and happy life.

https://www.ted.com/talks/julie_lythcott_haims_how_to_raise_successful_kids_without_over_parenting

But you have to realize that over all these years of her school career starting back in K, that you created and sustained the atmosphere and pressure.

I would say hindsight is 20/20 but you seem pretty educated so I would guess you knew all along that this could happen to your child, you just kept believing it would not.

I am curious to hear from the OP too. I don't believe that the child who was raised with a strong moral values and character will bend under the peer pressure. I also have kids in FCPS and I don't believe that school can put any pressure. It is just a flows of the character of the child who broke down with the slightest pressure.

OP, can you honestly says that neither you or your wife were pressuring her for years (maybe indirectly, like admiring someone who got to Yale or something like that)?

How old are your kids, pp? My kids definitely sense pressure in FCPS.

I have one junior in HS, others still younger. Junior was able to maintain all As without any pressure (we never asked them for grades and never checking homework after the 3rd grade). She is taking all hard APs (Physics, Chemistry, Algebra, Biology, etc.) and getting all As in them too. She is totally not stressed about college application, refused to go to SAT study program, took first SAT in January and got above 1500 without any preparation. She does sports, so maybe this is takes a pressure off.

I hope you are right pp. There but by the grace of god go you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


Since when is there a Algebra AP?

Sorry, you are correct. I just checked her course list, it is Calculus . I am a foreigner, so for me it is all math.

If you pay so little attention to your daughter that you don't even know that she is taking calculus, not algebra, so late in the year, no wonder your wife feels like she has to be a tiger mom. Maybe if you paid more attention to her, she wouldn't feel so pressured. She probably is striving, hoping that if she does well enough, you'll actually care enough to know what courses she is taking.

I think you confused me with OP. I am the pp and I posted earlier that we never control our kids and never checked their homework after the 3rd grade. They all made their schedules and just informed us. They all getting 4.0 unweighted GPA so far. I am the mom by the way. I do pay attention to my kids life, but I never pressure them to take specific courses just because every one else kids doing it. And I have my life too, so I don't memorize my kids schedule.

Sounds to me like your kids are raising themselves because they have a checked-out parent--trying to be perfect to get their parents to notice them and show they care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP, sorry to hear the news and sorry about all of the bizarre comments. My advice is time off for daughter. Can she defwr a semester or year? If so, do it. Take the summer and unwind her coil and get her breathing again. Don't use meds for a substitute for the unwinding coil and time off, you still need the unwind. Go for a nice walk every morning, esp this summer. Kids nerves get fried and so does the adrenals and thyroid--->> so you must get a thyroid panel blood test. In other words, parts of the birnout can be physical. Go get a good physical and check it out. I bet she's overworked and needs to recover.
Signed,
Been there/done that

Good advice.
Meds are risks business, so should be only a last resort.

What is wrong with you? If the child had cancer, you wouldn't regard chemo as a "last resort."

Don't be such a bloody idiot. This attitude is what's wrong with this country and how we regard mental illness. Medication to treat mental illness is NOT risky and NOT a last resort. On the contrary, AVOIDING them can do lifelong harm to people.

Jesus. Get a clue.

I agree completely. My son was diagnosed with depression last year, something that runs in my family. I only wish I had started medication for myself earlier, instead of slogging through years of depression. He was immediately put on an antidepressant. I'm not about to wring my hands wondering if he should be "medicated." If he was diabetic, we'd give him insulin. He has a serotonin imbalance, and now it's corrected.

+1M I suffered needlessly for years because my mom didn't "believe in" medication and created a suck it up attitude that stigmatized mental illness.