Protecting undocumented students (families) in DC schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would be unconscionable for our gov't to force an educator to take up the role of law enforcement.

But that is what so many people advocate for when it comes to non-DC residents attending DC schools. How many threads have appeared on DCUM lamenting that the principals of certain schools are not doing enough to verify and kick out non-residents. Some posters have even advocated that principals and teachers should stand outside every morning at drop off and try to make determinations of residency based on license plates. Seems a bit like law enforcement to me.

Are you a residence cheater yourself?

There's someone here constantly trying to mix two things that have nothing to do with each other.

Schools can and should verify residence rules (including residence rules pertaining to immigrants). But they are not the immigration police.

You are stupid if you think that people who have a different view point than yours is a cheater. That's why your many accusations go unanswered. I'm sure, I've lived in DC far longer than you newcomer. The schools should not be in the business of law enforcement period. There is no reason for selectivity, but if you ask them to police one thing be prepared for them to be forced to police everything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would be unconscionable for our gov't to force an educator to take up the role of law enforcement.

But that is what so many people advocate for when it comes to non-DC residents attending DC schools. How many threads have appeared on DCUM lamenting that the principals of certain schools are not doing enough to verify and kick out non-residents. Some posters have even advocated that principals and teachers should stand outside every morning at drop off and try to make determinations of residency based on license plates. Seems a bit like law enforcement to me.

Are you a residence cheater yourself?

There's someone here constantly trying to mix two things that have nothing to do with each other.

Schools can and should verify residence rules (including residence rules pertaining to immigrants). But they are not the immigration police.

You are stupid if you think that people who have a different view point than yours is a cheater. That's why your many accusations go unanswered. I'm sure, I've lived in DC far longer than you newcomer. The schools should not be in the business of law enforcement period. There is no reason for selectivity, but if you ask them to police one thing be prepared for them to be forced to police everything.

It's not because you have a different point of view, it's because someone (you?) have made the same stupid point 10 times in this thread.

Let me show how stupid your point is: What you are saying is "Because schools are not in the job of policing immigration status...they shouldn't care about pedophile behavior either."

Sorry that you or someone close to you chose to be a residence cheater, but that has nothing to do with immigration status (or with pedophiles)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, why shouldn't schools be required to report undocumented students? I'm troubled by the implication that being undocumented is perfectly A-OK. It isn't.

That attitude is why a lot of people went for Trump. I didn't, but I understand why people did.

Because presumably their parents are the ones who broke the law, not the students.

Really funny considering how many people have no problem reporting people they think come from MD or VA. The kids aren't the ones breaking the law in that situation either.

You are a fool. How dare you equate the two?

If a kid gets caught in a DC school residency cheating, he goes back to Maryland schools. His parents might have to pay for the cost of his DC education. They had the option of attending school in Maryland, but convenience or other reasons put them in a DC school.

If a kid whose parents are undocumented workers, or if the child is undocumented, they get sent back to another country they might not know, might not speak the language, and they lose everything they worked hard for here. Families can be torn apart with the U.S. Citizen child being left here while the parents are deported into a potentially dangerous situation. Americans love hiring cheap immigrant labor, but have no understanding of the consequences of deportation.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

I am not an immigration hawk, however you may be overstating this in bold in the DC area, and especially regarding children in DC schools.

If you look at the children of Central American immigrants in DC schools (both undocumented and legal), I think you're going to find that most are recent arrivals and few of the children were born in the US. Most speak Spanish at home, many of the children are officially ELL in the school system, and many families do keep ties with the home country.

This is NOT to say that they want to return, or that they should be forced to return. But I don't believe that DC has a lot of these "dreamers" you read about in the news, the ones who are now 27 years old and were brought here illegally when they were age 3. I think those are mostly of Mexican descent, living in the South and SW.

In DC it is mostly immigrants who arrived within the last few years, plus the older wave that came during the Central American civil wars many decades ago. Most of the latter got refugee status or benefited from the Reagan amnesty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, why shouldn't schools be required to report undocumented students? I'm troubled by the implication that being undocumented is perfectly A-OK. It isn't.

That attitude is why a lot of people went for Trump. I didn't, but I understand why people did.

Because presumably their parents are the ones who broke the law, not the students.

Really funny considering how many people have no problem reporting people they think come from MD or VA. The kids aren't the ones breaking the law in that situation either.

You are a fool. How dare you equate the two?

If a kid gets caught in a DC school residency cheating, he goes back to Maryland schools. His parents might have to pay for the cost of his DC education. They had the option of attending school in Maryland, but convenience or other reasons put them in a DC school.

If a kid whose parents are undocumented workers, or if the child is undocumented, they get sent back to another country they might not know, might not speak the language, and they lose everything they worked hard for here. Families can be torn apart with the U.S. Citizen child being left here while the parents are deported into a potentially dangerous situation. Americans love hiring cheap immigrant labor, but have no understanding of the consequences of deportation.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

I am not an immigration hawk, however you may be overstating this in bold in the DC area, and especially regarding children in DC schools.

If you look at the children of Central American immigrants in DC schools (both undocumented and legal), I think you're going to find that most are recent arrivals and few of the children were born in the US. Most speak Spanish at home, many of the children are officially ELL in the school system, and many families do keep ties with the home country.

This is NOT to say that they want to return, or that they should be forced to return. But I don't believe that DC has a lot of these "dreamers" you read about in the news, the ones who are now 27 years old and were brought here illegally when they were age 3. I think those are mostly of Mexican descent, living in the South and SW.

In DC it is mostly immigrants who arrived within the last few years, plus the older wave that came during the Central American civil wars many decades ago. Most of the latter got refugee status or benefited from the Reagan amnesty.

My child goes to a school with a very high population of Latinos. I don't know how many of them are undocumented or how many of their parents are. My child is in first grade, and her friends were mostly born here. They do speak Spanish at home and are officially ELL in the school system and keep ties to their home countries, but it's their parents' home countries, not theirs.

My concern about having DCPS reporting undocumented families to ICE is that discourages families concerned about ICE notice (either because they are undocumented or someone in their community is, etc.) from sending their kids to school at all. I would prefer that the children in my neighborhood attend school, regardless of their parents' immigration status.

The crazy poster above equating undocumented immigrants with pedophiles is absolutely crossing a line. Get a grip, PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Read Plyler v. Doe. Unless the Supreme Court overrules it (which would take several years, at least) undocumented kids are good.

And even if it's overturned, DCPS would not be *required* to consider immigration status. Given the mayor's speech today about being a sanctuary city and DCPS' poor job handling residency and enrollment documentation already, I can't imagine they will want to be in the situation of documenting immigration status.

How long will DC or any of the other cities remain sanctuary cities if federal funds are withheld, as pledged by DT.

Local taxes will have to increase to compensate.

DC is in a special case, being a territory. Maybe some federalism lawyers can jump in, but my understanding is that Congress could repeal all laws granting DC autonomy, and withhold DC's entire budget appropriation if it wanted to force DC to end its sanctuary policies. Whether congress would actually seek that political battle is another question. Most elected Republicans have a tepid interest in immigration issues in general.

It is different for cities like San Francisco that are located within states. Those cities would only be risking whatever federal dollars they receive in the form of direct transfers and grants, which could vary from city to city.

At different times in the 20th century, ICE agents or their predecessors have conducted immigration raids in schools. My instinct is that this would not fly politically today even among Republicans, and so the enforcement tactics would be mostly the Obama ones with the possible significant addition of workplace raids, which Obama forbade but which have been used in the US before. My sense is that Paul Ryan for example doesn't want these raids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, why shouldn't schools be required to report undocumented students? I'm troubled by the implication that being undocumented is perfectly A-OK. It isn't.

That attitude is why a lot of people went for Trump. I didn't, but I understand why people did.

Because presumably their parents are the ones who broke the law, not the students.

Really funny considering how many people have no problem reporting people they think come from MD or VA. The kids aren't the ones breaking the law in that situation either.

You are a fool. How dare you equate the two?

If a kid gets caught in a DC school residency cheating, he goes back to Maryland schools. His parents might have to pay for the cost of his DC education. They had the option of attending school in Maryland, but convenience or other reasons put them in a DC school.

If a kid whose parents are undocumented workers, or if the child is undocumented, they get sent back to another country they might not know, might not speak the language, and they lose everything they worked hard for here. Families can be torn apart with the U.S. Citizen child being left here while the parents are deported into a potentially dangerous situation. Americans love hiring cheap immigrant labor, but have no understanding of the consequences of deportation.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

I am not an immigration hawk, however you may be overstating this in bold in the DC area, and especially regarding children in DC schools.

If you look at the children of Central American immigrants in DC schools (both undocumented and legal), I think you're going to find that most are recent arrivals and few of the children were born in the US. Most speak Spanish at home, many of the children are officially ELL in the school system, and many families do keep ties with the home country.

This is NOT to say that they want to return, or that they should be forced to return. But I don't believe that DC has a lot of these "dreamers" you read about in the news, the ones who are now 27 years old and were brought here illegally when they were age 3. I think those are mostly of Mexican descent, living in the South and SW.

In DC it is mostly immigrants who arrived within the last few years, plus the older wave that came during the Central American civil wars many decades ago. Most of the latter got refugee status or benefited from the Reagan amnesty.

My child goes to a school with a very high population of Latinos. I don't know how many of them are undocumented or how many of their parents are. My child is in first grade, and her friends were mostly born here. They do speak Spanish at home and are officially ELL in the school system and keep ties to their home countries, but it's their parents' home countries, not theirs.

My concern about having DCPS reporting undocumented families to ICE is that discourages families concerned about ICE notice (either because they are undocumented or someone in their community is, etc.) from sending their kids to school at all. I would prefer that the children in my neighborhood attend school, regardless of their parents' immigration status.

The crazy poster above equating undocumented immigrants with pedophiles is absolutely crossing a line. Get a grip, PP.

You are stating the rationale for a sanctuary policy. It encourages parents to send their kids to school, encourages women to report domestic abuse, encourages engagement with government services in general. The majority of your fellow DC residents (myself included) agree with you. But that's not really the issue now, the issue now is whether or not Trump and Congress will try to force DC to abandon its policy and if so, whether or not they will be successful. I am mostly thinking and hoping that they won't even try to do this, but no-one can know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, why shouldn't schools be required to report undocumented students? I'm troubled by the implication that being undocumented is perfectly A-OK. It isn't.

That attitude is why a lot of people went for Trump. I didn't, but I understand why people did.

There are so many reasons for this. Simply being undocumented does not mean you are a criminal. Children, in particular are so vulnerable in this situation, which few of them have any control over. What would you do about an undocumented mom whose child is a US citizen? Report the mom even though her child is perfectly legal?
Will people be required to report their neighbors next?

Schools should focus on education, not law enforcement or unmasking otherwise law-abiding citizens who are undocumented.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, why shouldn't schools be required to report undocumented students? I'm troubled by the implication that being undocumented is perfectly A-OK. It isn't.

That attitude is why a lot of people went for Trump. I didn't, but I understand why people did.

Because presumably their parents are the ones who broke the law, not the students.

Really funny considering how many people have no problem reporting people they think come from MD or VA. The kids aren't the ones breaking the law in that situation either.

You are a fool. How dare you equate the two?

If a kid gets caught in a DC school residency cheating, he goes back to Maryland schools. His parents might have to pay for the cost of his DC education. They had the option of attending school in Maryland, but convenience or other reasons put them in a DC school.

If a kid whose parents are undocumented workers, or if the child is undocumented, they get sent back to another country they might not know, might not speak the language, and they lose everything they worked hard for here. Families can be torn apart with the U.S. Citizen child being left here while the parents are deported into a potentially dangerous situation. Americans love hiring cheap immigrant labor, but have no understanding of the consequences of deportation.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

I am not an immigration hawk, however you may be overstating this in bold in the DC area, and especially regarding children in DC schools.

If you look at the children of Central American immigrants in DC schools (both undocumented and legal), I think you're going to find that most are recent arrivals and few of the children were born in the US. Most speak Spanish at home, many of the children are officially ELL in the school system, and many families do keep ties with the home country.

This is NOT to say that they want to return, or that they should be forced to return. But I don't believe that DC has a lot of these "dreamers" you read about in the news, the ones who are now 27 years old and were brought here illegally when they were age 3. I think those are mostly of Mexican descent, living in the South and SW.

In DC it is mostly immigrants who arrived within the last few years, plus the older wave that came during the Central American civil wars many decades ago. Most of the latter got refugee status or benefited from the Reagan amnesty.

My child goes to a school with a very high population of Latinos. I don't know how many of them are undocumented or how many of their parents are. My child is in first grade, and her friends were mostly born here. They do speak Spanish at home and are officially ELL in the school system and keep ties to their home countries, but it's their parents' home countries, not theirs.

My concern about having DCPS reporting undocumented families to ICE is that discourages families concerned about ICE notice (either because they are undocumented or someone in their community is, etc.) from sending their kids to school at all. I would prefer that the children in my neighborhood attend school, regardless of their parents' immigration status.

The crazy poster above equating undocumented immigrants with pedophiles is absolutely crossing a line. Get a grip, PP.

You are stating the rationale for a sanctuary policy. It encourages parents to send their kids to school, encourages women to report domestic abuse, encourages engagement with government services in general. The majority of your fellow DC residents (myself included) agree with you. But that's not really the issue now, the issue now is whether or not Trump and Congress will try to force DC to abandon its policy and if so, whether or not they will be successful. I am mostly thinking and hoping that they won't even try to do this, but no-one can know.

I like to think about implementation barriers for things like this.

For example, DCPS would have to change the documents that it requires to demonstrate residency in order to comply with a Trump order demanding that they verify immigration status AND report it. Right now, you can prove residency without ever sharing a document that demonstrates your citizenship in any direction.

If a parent is unable to prove citizenship, but they are able to produce a US birth certificate for their child, what happens then? Will the child be permitted to enroll in school, but their parent reported to ICE? Who will be in charge of this - the school registrar? Who will be paying for the extra investigative time spent on this issue?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:none of you read the Supreme Court case on this actual issue that is mentioned on the first page of the thread, did you?

Plyler v. Doe. From 1982. When Reagan was president. Schools can't kick out undocumented kids who otherwise meet enrollment rules.

I thought Plyer prevents schools from having enrollment or expulsion policies that discriminate against undocumented students or the children of undocumented parents.

Does it also prevent ICE enforcement at schools or schools providing information to ICE?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, why shouldn't schools be required to report undocumented students? I'm troubled by the implication that being undocumented is perfectly A-OK. It isn't.

That attitude is why a lot of people went for Trump. I didn't, but I understand why people did.

Because presumably their parents are the ones who broke the law, not the students.

But you are sure quick to report any hint of residency cheating. That's on the parents and not the kids, right? So if a kid from Mexico is in your school illegally, it's ok. If a kid from a different DC neighborhood dares to try it, you'll report it as fast as your fingers can dial the phone.

Uh... the difference is in most cases the undocumented child's parents are actually paying taxes in DC, where as the Maryland child's asshole parents are not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, why shouldn't schools be required to report undocumented students? I'm troubled by the implication that being undocumented is perfectly A-OK. It isn't.

That attitude is why a lot of people went for Trump. I didn't, but I understand why people did.

Because presumably their parents are the ones who broke the law, not the students.

But you are sure quick to report any hint of residency cheating. That's on the parents and not the kids, right? So if a kid from Mexico is in your school illegally, it's ok. If a kid from a different DC neighborhood dares to try it, you'll report it as fast as your fingers can dial the phone.

Uh... the difference is in most cases the undocumented child's parents are actually paying taxes in DC, where as the Maryland child's asshole parents are not.

+1.

Too obvious for the residence cheater to get, perhaps...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:none of you read the Supreme Court case on this actual issue that is mentioned on the first page of the thread, did you?

Plyler v. Doe. From 1982. When Reagan was president. Schools can't kick out undocumented kids who otherwise meet enrollment rules.

I thought Plyer prevents schools from having enrollment or expulsion policies that discriminate against undocumented students or the children of undocumented parents.

Does it also prevent ICE enforcement at schools or schools providing information to ICE?

I don't believe that it does -- however, schools shouldn't be collecting information that might be usable by ICE.

Here's the US Department of Education's Dear Colleague letter advising schools and districts on what information they may or may not collect: http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/letters/colleague-201405.pdfv

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, why shouldn't schools be required to report undocumented students? I'm troubled by the implication that being undocumented is perfectly A-OK. It isn't.

That attitude is why a lot of people went for Trump. I didn't, but I understand why people did.

Because presumably their parents are the ones who broke the law, not the students.

But you are sure quick to report any hint of residency cheating. That's on the parents and not the kids, right? So if a kid from Mexico is in your school illegally, it's ok. If a kid from a different DC neighborhood dares to try it, you'll report it as fast as your fingers can dial the phone.

Uh... the difference is in most cases the undocumented child's parents are actually paying taxes in DC, where as the Maryland child's asshole parents are not.

+1

Most undocumented workers pay taxes, including many who have state and federal taxes withheld from their paychecks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, why shouldn't schools be required to report undocumented students? I'm troubled by the implication that being undocumented is perfectly A-OK. It isn't.

That attitude is why a lot of people went for Trump. I didn't, but I understand why people did.

Because presumably their parents are the ones who broke the law, not the students.

But you are sure quick to report any hint of residency cheating. That's on the parents and not the kids, right? So if a kid from Mexico is in your school illegally, it's ok. If a kid from a different DC neighborhood dares to try it, you'll report it as fast as your fingers can dial the phone.

Uh... the difference is in most cases the undocumented child's parents are actually paying taxes in DC, where as the Maryland child's asshole parents are not.

+1

Most undocumented workers pay taxes, including many who have state and federal taxes withheld from their paychecks.

+2.

And of course they pay property taxes where they live (directly or indirectly), just like everyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, why shouldn't schools be required to report undocumented students? I'm troubled by the implication that being undocumented is perfectly A-OK. It isn't.

That attitude is why a lot of people went for Trump. I didn't, but I understand why people did.

Because presumably their parents are the ones who broke the law, not the students.

But you are sure quick to report any hint of residency cheating. That's on the parents and not the kids, right? So if a kid from Mexico is in your school illegally, it's ok. If a kid from a different DC neighborhood dares to try it, you'll report it as fast as your fingers can dial the phone.

Uh... the difference is in most cases the undocumented child's parents are actually paying taxes in DC, where as the Maryland child's asshole parents are not.

+1

Most undocumented workers pay taxes, including many who have state and federal taxes withheld from their paychecks.

+2.

And of course they pay property taxes where they live (directly or indirectly), just like everyone else.

The bigger question is how can an illegal immigrant get a job in the first place. Plenty of able boded citizens employable.